Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

was pretty symptomatic of our season really. poor first half, played ok second half, blew it at the end. plus points were aquilani getting a runout, pacheco looking promising, torres being back. minuses were darby not looking up to scratch, general lack of concentration and the confidence not really looking there. i'm worried about arsenal giving us a bit of a runaround on sunday.

Have faith Stevie.

A 2-0 win on sunday. Come on Reds.

not sure. we're still nowhere near fit and arsenal rested everyone last night. we've been <deleted> against mobile teams this season.

[Devil]

Great article - by Paul Tomkins

LFC TV

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/features/to...a-new-beginning

or here:

A new beginning

I loathe the kind of 'punditry' that says, just six months on from a 2nd-placed finish, that Liverpool have never looked further away from landing the title.

It's so bereft of logic, it's laughable. It's pure nonsense.I'm sure you've seen the kind of comments I'm referring to. They come thick and fast at times like this, so it doesn't hurt to take stock and look at the true picture.

For me, it's far easier for a good side to have a relatively poor season than for the opposite to occur.

Can an average 100m runner accidentally finish 2nd in the Olympics? Of course not. Could the world-record holder conceivably finish 5th? Yes; especially if he's not at his fittest, or slips on his way out of the blocks.

Teams underachieve and overachieve all the time, but never by large amounts. However, overachieving is more difficult, because you can't play better than you actually are, so it relies on others being well below par; but you can quite easily underachieve if you're missing too many players, or lacking confidence.

And the bigger the sample you look at, the less chance there is for anomalies to crop up.

So - was last season, with 86 points, and the title still a possibility going into May, an accident?

Or is this season the accident?

Well, what is the bigger sample? Last season we can judge on 38 league games; this season, in terms of the league, is only 15 games old.

(Ditto Europe: five very good-to-excellent campaigns surely tell us more than one substandard one? Man United went out at the group stages in 2006, and won the title a year later, and the Champions League a further 12 months down the line; doesn't mean such changes in fortune automatically follow, but it does show that demises are over-hyped.)

At the mid-point of last season, Liverpool were written off after a number of draws; "nowhere near good enough" came the cry from many in the media. In the end, they were very nearly good enough.

"Not enough goals", said the experts last January. Then Robbie Keane was sold, and despite being a striker down, the scoring rate more-or-less doubled; the Reds finished as the league's top scorers and put four past Chelsea and Madrid in Europe.

Last season, the Reds were as close as they've been to the title in 19 years. In terms of points accrued, Liverpool won 75% of those available, the second-best ever in the club's history.

So, that was an accident, was it? It may have involved a little overachievement, but certainly not much.

Of course, that was last season, this is a new season. Fair enough.

But what has changed? Have ten players departed, and ten new ones arrived? No.

Xabi Alonso has gone. However, let's remember, it's not been the loss of Maradona, Pele or Puskas. Or all three.

Alonso was an excellent player, but he wasn't a great goalscorer, or even a direct creator of chances. He was someone who kept the team ticking over, and that's important. But would he have done as well had he still been here and so many others been injured, as has been the case? Unlikely.

In terms of directly creating openings, it wasn't as if Alonso would ever do what Lucas did at Blackburn, and get to the byline in open to create a clear chance. So I don't see Alonso, who never scored more than a handful himself, as this 'ultra-positive' player, and Lucas as this 'negative' understudy.

Of course, even though his style has its differences, Alonso's natural replacement is Aquilani, whose injury lasted longer than expected. That meant he was even more behind in terms of fitness, making it catch-22 as to when to introduce him; further complicating matters.

However, Alonso's departure and Aquilani's absence are lesser factors in the dip in the Reds' overall form.

The same applies to the lack of a recognised back-up striker to Torres.

While the Spaniard has the club's best goals-per-minute ratio this term, at a stunning 111 minutes for every strike, David N'Gog is only fractionally behind. The Frenchman has also notched in some vital games.

So, while Liverpool have missed their no.9, I don't think you can expect much more from any understudy. (All the hysteria over Michael Owen this week, and it's easy to overlook that even after that hat-trick, N'Gog has a better goals-per-game record this season, and even more so in Premiership matches.)

What we would expect, however, is more goals from Steven Gerrard; but aside from missing games, he's spent a lot of time playing either with an injury or recovering from one. Again, that's difficult for any manager to work around.

So therefore, for me, it all comes down to two main things.

First, the form of key players earlier in the season.

And second, the injuries to key players throughout the season. (And often, both have gone hand-in-hand.)

Add to this the momentum factor, where a poor start takes the wind from your sails, ramps up pressure and causes mass hysteria (so that every game becomes gets the dreaded "must win" tag), and you have something approaching the 'perfect storm'. A negativity builds up in the press, and it takes its toll.

Of late, on top of celebrating the return to fitness of Gerrard, Torres and Aquilani, people are commenting on how it's great to see Carragher and Mascherano back to their best. So it's clear that neither began the season on form.

The Argentine had a lot of unsettling speculation over the summer, and more pertinently, the massive burden of a faltering World Cup campaign for his country, for which, as captain, he shouldered much of the responsibility (whether it was his fault or not). As soon as they qualified, he almost instantly 'returned' as his old self in Liverpool colours.

Coincidence? I doubt it. A key player, off colour, but now back on track.

Carragher also had a poor start to the season by his standards, but after almost 600 games, perhaps he was due such a spell. We can hardly criticise his consistency, can we? The club has had few more constantly reliable performers in its history.

Most crucial, perhaps, has been the lack of any defensive stability, due to what can only be called an injury crisis. This almost certainly added to Carragher's struggles; and even he ended up crocked at one point.

Add that the regular left-back is in his first full season in the side, and that the right-back is new to the club, along with injuries to Agger and Skrtel, and you can see the challenge the manager has faced, and the added pressure on Carragher.

It's fair to say that other teams are now experiencing injury crises. But with a bit of momentum already in their season, it's possibly easier to absorb. Then there's the lack of players to punish them; just when Man United ran out of fit defenders, ahead of travelling to West Ham, they found that their opponents had run out of fit strikers.

(To show that teams struggle without their best defenders, you only have to look at United conceding three at home to CSKA Moscow. And look at Arsenal's scoring record since losing Van Persie; from not drawing a blank up to November, they've now registered four in the six games since he got injured.)

Liverpool have used 13 different defensive line-ups this season, in just 23 games. Most of those changes have been enforced.

If you take Johnson, Carragher, Agger and Insua as the strongest defence (although Aurelio may well take over from the youngster), in four games, it has yet to concede a goal. I think that tells its own story.

But when you consider that 12 defenders have been used this season, five of whom had never started for the first team prior to August, four are 21 or under, and seven have played with, or are recovering from, injury, and you can see that the platform teams need to build upon has been far from ideal. (Thanks to Tomkins Times' subscriber Andrew Fanko for help with the research.)

You can get results despite this, but rarely a winning momentum. Injure Torres and Gerrard as well, and that only makes it harder. Experience many of these problems from the opening week, and it's an uphill struggle; a vicious circle.

Scoring goals this season has been less of a problem than conceding, which is why the three clean sheets in a row with the same back four (and Reina) was something to feel positive about.

It's a case of ifs and buts, and perhaps Liverpool would still be struggling if Torres, Gerrard, Carragher, Mascherano, Agger, Aurelio, et al, had been fit and/or firing on cylinders all season long, and Aquilani was only out until September, as expected. But I doubt it (even if a couple of them still had the same problems).

Add them all together, however, and yes, it's been below what we've come to expect from Liverpool in recent years. It might make the title a distant dream this season, but it doesn't define the strength of the team right now, or where it's heading in the future.

If anyone thinks that a line-up of Reina, Johnson, Agger, Carragher, Aurelio, Benayoun, Kuyt, Mascherano, Aquilani, Gerrard and Torres is behind where we were in 2004, then (with all due respect withdrawn) they need their head examined.

The rest of the season is a chance to build understanding and confidence, and get an idea of just how good the side can be, if everyone is fit and in form.

[MSingh]

Great article - by Paul Tomkins

The rest of the season is a chance to build understanding and confidence, and get an idea of just how good the side can be, if everyone is fit and in form.

Sorry Dev my Old China, from an outsiders poitn of view, you should have built on last Season Mate as a Club of your stature, not build confidence after last Year & see how good the side can be..

Just my 2 cents ( no pun intended ) of course..

[StevieH]

m, can you tell us how you're supposed to build on last season when the manager has most of his supposed transfer budget stolen from him to pay off the owners' unmanageable debts? he can't magic players out of thin air to improve the squad.

[MSingh]

m, can you tell us how you're supposed to build on last season when the manager has most of his supposed transfer budget stolen from him to pay off the owners' unmanageable debts? he can't magic players out of thin air to improve the squad.

Transfer budget " stolen " from him ?? Firstly nothing was " stolen " from him, it's their Club, their money, he has no divine right to have an unlimited transfer budget in a global recession.

Anyway, he was the one who decided to splash out 18m on a Right Back, a;beit a good one, but a Right Back nevetheless !!!!!

I'm talking about the Club on the whole Steve, the Club should have built on last Season but the circumstances it seems, wasn't to be & i, believe it or not, would like to see a Liverpool who are regulary challenging for domestic honours, it'd be good for the League..

It doesn't just happen to Liverpool you know either, Rafa has had a hel_l of a lot of $$ over the past 4 or 5 Years, more money than the majority of Clubs could ever dream of & he just hasn't bought well enough during that time to BUILD a decent Squad so having a limited budget for a Summer is just an excuse & is covering over the cracks & it seems to suit everyone.

Look at the Player's he's bought, Babel & Masch for 30m of the finest British Pounds, add a Right Back ( certainly NOT the most important position on the Pitch ) & we're talking 50m big one's ?????????

Babel is not good enough is he at the level your lot expect to be ( even though i rate him personally ) & not worth the money laid out for him, even if he does have potential, which means money not being spent well..

Masch is a decent Player but misses Alonson badly ( who wouldn't, granted ) so instead of relacing him to complement Mascherano AND attempt to bring a bit of creativity into the centre of Midfield, he bought an injury prone, untested Italian for another 17m who may or may not come good or break down again like he does in every other Season he's played in ( we're up to 67m now ), lashed out 18m on Glen Johnson, a Right Back, played a Player who is the same Player as Masch ( Lucas, & that's being comlimentary ) & a " potentially " good Player who cost 1.5m from France ( Ngog ) as your main Striker in some Games, making you drop points left right & centre in the first half of the Season..

If you have a Manager who needs a Transfer Budget that's bordering on unlimited like you lot seem to want him being given, then that isn't a decent Manager & not someone i'd want spending my money if i was Statler & Waldorf, who probably have a little look down the M62 every now & then & notice that their Manager got a Striker in on a play as you play who scores CL Hat Tricks, saw them lose the best Player in teh World & Carlos Tevez & replace them both with a Fella from Wigan, yet cruised their CL Group & sitting a couple of points of Chelsea at the top of the League..

Sorry Chaps, i think your problems are there for all to see but you just dont' want to see it..

Of course, you would could probably do with a change of Ownership cos it seems to have gone incredibly sour all of it but you need a change of something else too.....

[rixalex]

Transfer budget " stolen " from him ?? Firstly nothing was " stolen " from him, it's their Club, their money, he has no divine right to have an unlimited transfer budget in a global recession.

Anyway, he was the one who decided to splash out 18m on a Right Back, a;beit a good one, but a Right Back nevetheless !!!!!

I'm talking about the Club on the whole Steve, the Club should have built on last Season but the circumstances it seems, wasn't to be & i, believe it or not, would like to see a Liverpool who are regulary challenging for domestic honours, it'd be good for the League..

It doesn't just happen to Liverpool you know either, Rafa has had a hel_l of a lot of $$ over the past 4 or 5 Years, more money than the majority of Clubs could ever dream of & he just hasn't bought well enough during that time to BUILD a decent Squad so having a limited budget for a Summer is just an excuse & is covering over the cracks & it seems to suit everyone.

Look at the Player's he's bought, Babel & Masch for 30m of the finest British Pounds, add a Right Back ( certainly NOT the most important position on the Pitch ) & we're talking 50m big one's ?????????

Babel is not good enough is he at the level your lot expect to be ( even though i rate him personally ) & not worth the money laid out for him, even if he does have potential, which means money not being spent well..

Masch is a decent Player but misses Alonson badly ( who wouldn't, granted ) so instead of relacing him to complement Mascherano AND attempt to bring a bit of creativity into the centre of Midfield, he bought an injury prone, untested Italian for another 17m who may or may not come good or break down again like he does in every other Season he's played in ( we're up to 67m now ), lashed out 18m on Glen Johnson, a Right Back, played a Player who is the same Player as Masch ( Lucas, & that's being comlimentary ) & a " potentially " good Player who cost 1.5m from France ( Ngog ) as your main Striker in some Games, making you drop points left right & centre in the first half of the Season..

If you have a Manager who needs a Transfer Budget that's bordering on unlimited like you lot seem to want him being given, then that isn't a decent Manager & not someone i'd want spending my money if i was Statler & Waldorf, who probably have a little look down the M62 every now & then & notice that their Manager got a Striker in on a play as you play who scores CL Hat Tricks, saw them lose the best Player in teh World & Carlos Tevez & replace them both with a Fella from Wigan, yet cruised their CL Group & sitting a couple of points of Chelsea at the top of the League..

Sorry Chaps, i think your problems are there for all to see but you just dont' want to see it..

Of course, you would could probably do with a change of Ownership cos it seems to have gone incredibly sour all of it but you need a change of something else too.....

Brilliantly summed up Singhy. Could not have put it better myself. It's precisely how i see it. I think it's the view of most outsiders. Most Liverpool supporters however seem to have a different view. I guess they would say that's because they have a better understanding of the situation and i can't argue with that. It's their club and if they want to stay loyal to Rafa that's their business.

[MSingh]

Brilliantly summed up Singhy. Could not have put it better myself. It's precisely how i see it. I think it's the view of most outsiders. Most Liverpool supporters however seem to have a different view. I guess they would say that's because they have a better understanding of the situation and i can't argue with that. It's their club and if they want to stay loyal to Rafa that's their business.

Completely, 100% & that's entirely their perogative..

& the above is only my personal opinion anyway, neither right nor worng..

[Devil]

Poor start to the season, mainly due to players out injured and some key players not performing.

So situation is this - 7th in the league and everyone is panicking... but we have 23 games to go!

Certainly the Arsenal game is crucial for us on Sunday and a win is desperately needed. I know most are not confident about this game but I have got a feeling we will get the 3 points.

Key players all coming back from injury now and seeing Torres and Gerrard back is a massive boost, we just need a run of good form and some wins and we will back in the mix

[MSingh]

Poor start to the season, mainly due to players out injured and some key players not performing.

So situation is this - 7th in the league and everyone is panicking... but we have 23 games to go!

Certainly the Arsenal game is crucial for us on Sunday and a win is desperately needed. I know most are not confident about this game but I have got a feeling we will get the 3 points.

Key players all coming back from injury now and seeing Torres and Gerrard back is a massive boost, we just need a run of good form and some wins and we will be covering over the cracks/covering up the problems

[Devil]

Poor start to the season, mainly due to players out injured and some key players not performing.

So situation is this - 7th in the league and everyone is panicking... but we have 23 games to go!

Certainly the Arsenal game is crucial for us on Sunday and a win is desperately needed. I know most are not confident about this game but I have got a feeling we will get the 3 points.

Key players all coming back from injury now and seeing Torres and Gerrard back is a massive boost, we just need a run of good form and some wins and we will be covering over the cracks/covering up the problems

look dont ruin my weekend before it starts, someones got stay positive.

[MSingh]

Poor start to the season, mainly due to players out injured and some key players not performing.

So situation is this - 7th in the league and everyone is panicking... but we have 23 games to go!

Certainly the Arsenal game is crucial for us on Sunday and a win is desperately needed. I know most are not confident about this game but I have got a feeling we will get the 3 points.

Key players all coming back from injury now and seeing Torres and Gerrard back is a massive boost, we just need a run of good form and some wins and we will be covering over the cracks/covering up the problems

look dont ruin my weekend before it starts, someones got stay positive.

Dev, you know i love you Bruv & deep down, i am HUGLEY jealous of your optimism & positivity, honestly..

[longstebe]

Gentleman, like I said before there are a lot of points to be played for and a lot of twists and turns.

This weekends results have proven that. What about Wolves? What a result. Lets hope they do the same

come Wednesday .

[Devil]

Gentleman, like I said before there are a lot of points to be played for and a lot of twists and turns.

This weekends results have proven that. What about Wolves? What a result. Lets hope they do the same

come Wednesday .

The Arsenal game just got even more important after looking at the other results from yesterday.

Praying...

[nev]

Gentleman, like I said before there are a lot of points to be played for and a lot of twists and turns.

This weekends results have proven that. What about Wolves? What a result. Lets hope they do the same

come Wednesday .

Same here seeing we are playing them tuesday

[R123]

The Arsenal game.

Liverpool denied a clear first half penalty.

Correct me if I am wrong but the same referee whose wrongful decision in Newcastles' final game in the Premiership cost them staying up.

In any event what do you scouses say about changing your manager??

[Devil]

Should of won that game first half... Torress clear chance, stone wall penalty, how he didnt give that I will never know? We looked back to our best with all first team players back and looking strong.

The second half was shocking though, heads went down after that own goal and we didnt look like a threat with Torres looking tired. Credit to Arsenal for having a go and turning the game on its head and what a great goal from Arshavin!

Just think If we play like we did first half over the next few games I am sure we will games. Its all about getting confidence back right now.

[longstebe]

I would have to agree. I thought we looked really good in the first half. It was nice to see our strongest

side. Still gutted though. Arshavins face when he scores........ . Wigan next.

[spongeman]

The game is up. Another manager will take that team that was out there yesterday to the title.

[spongeman]

As well Benetiz is responsible for the injuries to Gerrard and Torres, by playing them up front and behind by themselves, instead of 2 up front, thus putting too much pressure on them.

Then he sells Keane and we are left with El Zhar and Ngog.

We will finish in the top 4, I believe that.

But its time to move on.

[Devil]

Rafa: My top four belief

15th Dec 2009 - LFC TVArchive Rafa Benitez today reiterated his belief Liverpool will secure a top four finish this season and ensure they are playing Champions League football in 2010-2011.

The Reds are currently in seventh position in the Barclays Premier League, but Benitez is confident the hard work being put in on the Melwood training pitches will begin to pay dividends sooner rather than later and is eager for the camp to retain a positive outlook.

"Every game for us is one we have to win," Benitez told his pre-match press conference. "Our mentality, our idea, is to try and win every game.

"Sometimes you can, sometimes you cannot, but you can't be negative - you have to think about the positives.

"The manager has to be positive and I am. But how can I change things? By working harder and doing my best every single day. The players they know this, and they are doing the same. We are working together.

"I can guarantee we will finish in the top four."

The boss acknowledges supporters have every reason to be disappointed with the Reds' recent results - but he believes their backing will play a key role in helping his side reignite the season.

"I am 100 per sure our fans are very clever and they know the way to improve and change things is to support and stay behind the team," he said.

"The fans will always be with the club because it is a massive club and we have the best fans in the world.

"We have to perform on the pitch and it will be easier for them to support the team.

"Ever since I arrived here, I have been really proud. Every time we go to another country, you can see what Liverpool means to everyone - like in Asia for example.

"The fans will be disappointed (with current form), and we are disappointed too because we want to improve and win games. The only way to change things is to keep working together."

Asked about Jamie Carragher's recent comments in which the defender was quoted as saying he 'prays' the Reds can get their season back on track, the gaffer replied: "Carra was using an old expression in a sentence and was saying something we know - we have to work harder, stay together and try to do our best every single day. This is the best way to do things."

As Liverpool prepare to mark the 50^th anniversary of Bill Shankly's first game in charge of the club before Wednesday's Barclays Premier League fixture with Wigan Athletic, Benitez admits inspiration can be drawn from the legendary Scot's tenure.

However, the manager feels it is equally important to take a modern approach to pre-match preparations.

He said: "This club has a lot history. Everyone knows when we decided to bring Sammy Lee - a former player with experience and a lot of feelings for the club - back it was because we wanted to change things.

"We are trying to keep the same spirit but life has changed, so you can't do things exactly in the same way. It's impossible."

Liverpool head into the encounter with Wigan on the back of a disappointing second-half against Arsenal on Sunday.

Dirk Kuyt fired the Reds into a deserved lead against Arsene Wenger's side, but an own-goal from Glen Johnson and Andrey Arshavin's spectacular strike condemned the home side to a 2-1 defeat.

However, Liverpool felt they should have been awarded a first-half penalty when Steven Gerrard was sent tumbling inside the box by William Gallas while Fernando Torres also missed a good opportunity in the opening moments.

"You never know what could have happened, but clearly there were three situations in the first-half that could have made a massive difference," said Benitez.

"One was the chance for Torres, the second was the penalty decision, which was very clear, and then the goal. If you put these three things together, I think everything could have changed.

"In the second half, we scored an own goal with two deflections and it changed everything.

"Football is a special game and confidence can go higher or lower depending on the situation.

"We have to improve, that is very clear, but if we had scored a second goal we would not be talking about losing confidence."

Nevertheless, Benitez believes his side can draw positives from their dominant first-half display against the Gunners and is adamant the Reds will soon rediscover the winning habit if they can match those levels.

"The mood is very good," he said. "I think the first-half was so good that you have to take the positives from this game and try to play at the same level.

"I am sure we will win games if we can play at the same level as in the first-half.

"We have to improve if we can, and if we make mistakes, we have to keep going.

"There are still 22 games to play, and we know we have to change our target. Now it is to try and get three points against Wigan and then start thinking about Portsmouth."

Wigan will arrive at Anfield looking to end a run of just one win in six matches - but Benitez is eager for his troops to turn on the style in front of the Kop.

"We will play at Anfield, we are a top side and we know we have to perform," said the Spaniard.

"If Wigan come here, play well and get a point maybe they will be happy, but for us we will try to do our best and try to win.

"Wigan are a team who are doing well in attack, but they are also conceding goals. Consistency is the key if you want to stay in the Premier League."

The gaffer was also full of praise for his managerial compatriot Roberto Martinez, and added: "He is doing a good job. I have known him since I came to England several years ago to view some training sessions.

"I had lunch with him. Maybe he will not remember, but I remember it really well. I have a good relationship with him. He is a good manager and is doing well."

Meanwhile, reporters quizzed the boss about Liverpool's World Cup host city bid, with those successful in the race to be included in England's proposal to stage the 2018 tournament set to be announced on Wednesday.

"We are supporting the idea because Liverpool is a massive city," he replied. "You can smell football here.

"It would be very good and important for us, and I would be pleased to watch good games here."

Author: James Carroll at Melwood

[bkkjames]

Stevie G released a new cover of Brian Adams' hit song.. for your enjoyment

Stevie G’s 18 till we die

I wanna be young the rest of my life

never say no – deny anything twice

til los blancos come and ask me to fly

Were gonna be stuck on 18 til we die - 18 til we die

Can't win forever that's wishful thinkin'

who ever said that must of bin' dippin

don't wanna stay up I don't see why

I couldn't care less as time flies by

18 til we die – were gonna be 18 til we die

it sure feels good to be just to be able to dive

someday I'll be 18 goin' on 55! - 18 til we die

anyway - I just wanna say

why bother with what happened yesterday

it's not my style - I live for extra minutes

if ya wanna get carded get both feet in it - 18 til we die

a 'lil bit of Rafa - a 'lil bit of Sam

'lil bit of everything - gotta get off track

it's not how ya look, it's what you achieve

I don't care when - I don't need to know why

18 til we die - gonna be 18 til we die

ya it sure feels good to be mid table

someday I'll be 18 goin' on 55! - 18 til we die

ya there's one thing for sure - I'm sure gonna try

don't worry 'bout the future - forget about the past

gonna have a ball - ya we're gonna be last

gonna make it last - 18 til we die

[Devil]

Stevie G released a new cover of Brian Adams' hit song.. for your enjoyment

Stevie G's 18 till we die

I wanna be young the rest of my life

never say no – deny anything twice

til los blancos come and ask me to fly

Were gonna be stuck on 18 til we die - 18 til we die

Can't win forever that's wishful thinkin'

who ever said that must of bin' dippin

don't wanna stay up I don't see why

I couldn't care less as time flies by

18 til we die – were gonna be 18 til we die

it sure feels good to be just to be able to dive

someday I'll be 18 goin' on 55! - 18 til we die

anyway - I just wanna say

why bother with what happened yesterday

it's not my style - I live for extra minutes

if ya wanna get carded get both feet in it - 18 til we die

a 'lil bit of Rafa - a 'lil bit of Sam

'lil bit of everything - gotta get off track

it's not how ya look, it's what you achieve

I don't care when - I don't need to know why

18 til we die - gonna be 18 til we die

ya it sure feels good to be mid table

someday I'll be 18 goin' on 55! - 18 til we die

ya there's one thing for sure - I'm sure gonna try

don't worry 'bout the future - forget about the past

gonna have a ball - ya we're gonna be last

gonna make it last - 18 til we die

not bad James

[StevieH]

As well Benetiz is responsible for the injuries to Gerrard and Torres, by playing them up front and behind by themselves, instead of 2 up front, thus putting too much pressure on them.

Then he sells Keane and we are left with El Zhar and Ngog.

We will finish in the top 4, I believe that.

But its time to move on.

what absolute nonsense. both gerrard and torres picked up their injuries this season on international duty for pointless friendlies. couple of things:

1. no top team in europe today plays '2 up front' in the traditional 4-4-2 sense. it's outmoded.

2. robbie keane was crap and incapable of adapting his game to play with top players in a formation which required some imagination and intelligence.

3. three things actually, the front pair of torres and gerrard is arguably the best in the world and last season liverpool scored the most goals in the division, 9 more than then next nearest.

4. four as it goes, ngog is a good young player. benitez wanted to sign a senior deputy to torres in the summer but was not allowed to as the money he'd been told could go on more players went to pay off american debt.

i also think that we'll finish top 4 if we can keep everyone fit between now and may. but don't attack the manager with baseless nonsense eh?

[StevieH]

The Arsenal game.

Liverpool denied a clear first half penalty.

Correct me if I am wrong but the same referee whose wrongful decision in Newcastles' final game in the Premiership cost them staying up.

In any event what do you scouses say about changing your manager??

we're between a rock and a hard place really. benitez has made mistakes this season but he's still the manager who led us to 2nd last year with a record points total finishing ahead of moneybags chelsea with gerrard and torres only starting 14 games together. we're dreadful this season yes, but he's not become a bad manager overnight.

the loss of alonso was massive, but bigger was the 30-odd million to spend that rafa was denied because of the americans' debts. that would have allowed us to replace hyypia properly (we wanted turner, shawcross and others but couldn't afford them) and would also have let us sign a top class alternative to allow us to rest / cover torres.

in short sacking him would set us back a number of years on the project side, but there's no money to spend so rafa is hamstrung anyway. he needs backing properly but the yanks aren't prepared to do that as that would involve them investing some of their own cash instead of taking out more loans (gillett just sold a team for 330m, where's that going george?). nobody will buy us while the yanks still over-value us to try and make their vast profits for fuc_king up the club, so we're in limbo really. but sacking benitez and replacing him with klinsmann would be a gigantic step backwards.

[Devil]

Solid performace against Wigan and earning a badly needed 3 points, back up to 6th in the league.

Roll on Pompey.

[jb4446]

Wigan will thrash Liverpool no problems,just get Everton relegated to the northern conference league will be a good season

[Devil]

Wigan will thrash Liverpool no problems,just get Everton relegated to the northern conference league will be a good season

? we just beat Wigan last night 2-1

[StevieH]

Solid performace against Wigan and earning a badly needed 3 points, back up to 6th in the league.

Roll on Pompey.

didn't think we were particularly convincing but then i didn't expect us to be really, we're so lacking in confidence. but yes, a win is a win so onwards and upwards.

[StevieH]

Wigan will thrash Liverpool no problems,just get Everton relegated to the northern conference league will be a good season

que?

[bkkjames]

Wigan will thrash Liverpool no problems,just get Everton relegated to the northern conference league will be a good season

que?

Blame it on booze me thinks.