Liverpool F.c.

[scousemouse]

The only Liverpool player to have a decent game ( though the voting system might have a flaw ,Mascherano came 2nd ):

REINA VOTED MOTM VERSUS UNITED

Pepe Reina was voted man of the match versus Man Utd by fans who took part in an exclusive poll on this website. Meanwhile, left-back Fabio Aurelio won the Liverpoolfc.tv writers' award.

After each game we ask you to pick the Reds' top three players - and we'll pick ours too.

The winner of each poll then gets three points, the runner-up gets two and the third best player gets one. At the end of the season the points are totted up to reveal our star performer.

Fans' top three players v United:

1. Pepe Reina.

2. Javier Mascherano

3. Dirk Kuyt

Edited March 24, 2008 by scousemouse

[scousemouse]

I know my mate Kopite lives in Pattaya and I think a few of the other lads live there aswell.

I'm going to be in Jomtien this Friday and Saturday on a seminar but I should be able to sneek away for a pint or 7 as long as its late enough .

I'm coming back to Bkk on the Sunday afternoon in time for Bangkok Football Beer Night 7 ( we all know whose playing ) and it would be great if a few of the Pattaya lads could be there .

would have met up mate, but in spain since thursday.

Hope you had a good time in Spain mate .

[scousemouse]

Mascherano comes up with his defence , then leaves the country :

MASCH: I COULDN'T BELIEVE RED CARD

Javier Mascherano today admitted he's still baffled as to why he was sent off in Sunday's 3-0 defeat to Manchester United. Goals from Wes Brown, Cristiano Ronaldo and Nani saw the Reds slump to a first league loss since January, but it was the dismissal of Mascherano and the subsequent protest which stole the headlines.

Referee Steve Bennett produced a second yellow on the stroke of half-time after the Argentina international queried a decision.

Television replays appeared to show Mascherano asking Bennett "what's happening" before the official reached for his pocket citing dissent.

Liverpool were left to play the second-half with 10 men and subsequently conceded two further goals.

Mascherano said: "I do not know why I was sent off.

"I asked the referee what was happening. I did not swear, I was not aggressive and I did not confront him.

"All I did was ask him what was happening, nothing else.

"So when he showed me the second yellow card and sent me off I could not believe it.

"I am sorry to my teammates because that meant we went down to 10 men and that made things even more difficult for us."

Mascherano, who is now suspended for next weekend's Merseyside derby, flew to Egypt to join up with the Argentina national squad straight after the game.

[mrtoad]

As I said last night Scouse, he's going to get hit with a big fine and a further ban for refusing to leave the field of play. Whatever he had for breakfast didn't agree with him, as he acted like a complete plonker. I'm sure that Benitez is quietlt seething with his behaviour if the truth be known.

[kopite]

As I said last night Scouse, he's going to get hit with a big fine and a further ban for refusing to leave the field of play. Whatever he had for breakfast didn't agree with him, as he acted like a complete plonker. I'm sure that Benitez is quietlt seething with his behaviour if the truth be known.

regardless of what happened before the incident, all he did was ask "whats happenning". people are making out that he "run 20 yards, and shoved alonso out the way" blah de blah.

which he didnt. he half jogged to bennett then asked him a question. all this happened because of the ashley cole incident. bennett had to make an example of somebody, and at castle greyskull it wasnt going to be a manc.

the whole incident could have been avoided if bennett had controlled the game from the start. im not making excuses for masch as he was on one from the off. but at the same time bookings were being given out like sweets, and in the biggest game that exists you dont referee a match in that manner. the game was over from that point.

[scousemouse]

As I said last night Scouse, he's going to get hit with a big fine and a further ban for refusing to leave the field of play. Whatever he had for breakfast didn't agree with him, as he acted like a complete plonker. I'm sure that Benitez is quietlt seething with his behaviour if the truth be known.

regardless of what happened before the incident, all he did was ask "whats happenning". people are making out that he "run 20 yards, and shoved alonso out the way" blah de blah.

which he didnt. he half jogged to bennett then asked him a question. all this happened because of the ashley cole incident. bennett had to make an example of somebody, and at castle greyskull it wasnt going to be a manc.

the whole incident could have been avoided if bennett had controlled the game from the start. im not making excuses for masch as he was on one from the off. but at the same time bookings were being given out like sweets, and in the biggest game that exists you dont referee a match in that manner. the game was over from that point.

that's what I said whilst watchin the gamne with a load of Mancs

[kopite]

As I said last night Scouse, he's going to get hit with a big fine and a further ban for refusing to leave the field of play. Whatever he had for breakfast didn't agree with him, as he acted like a complete plonker. I'm sure that Benitez is quietlt seething with his behaviour if the truth be known.

regardless of what happened before the incident, all he did was ask "whats happenning". people are making out that he "run 20 yards, and shoved alonso out the way" blah de blah.

which he didnt. he half jogged to bennett then asked him a question. all this happened because of the ashley cole incident. bennett had to make an example of somebody, and at castle greyskull it wasnt going to be a manc.

the whole incident could have been avoided if bennett had controlled the game from the start. im not making excuses for masch as he was on one from the off. but at the same time bookings were being given out like sweets, and in the biggest game that exists you dont referee a match in that manner. the game was over from that point.

that's what I said whilst watchin the gamne with a load of Mancs

it was painfull enough watching the game at me dads, let alone sat with a load mancs, and even then i give him a load verbal

[kopite]

Macherano

just when we need you to win........cant expect any favours from the 'pool can we.

sighhhhhh

good to see you lot on form at the moment. should be an interesting 10 days, no?

[mrtoad]

As I said last night Scouse, he's going to get hit with a big fine and a further ban for refusing to leave the field of play. Whatever he had for breakfast didn't agree with him, as he acted like a complete plonker. I'm sure that Benitez is quietlt seething with his behaviour if the truth be known.

regardless of what happened before the incident, all he did was ask "whats happenning". people are making out that he "run 20 yards, and shoved alonso out the way" blah de blah.

which he didnt. he half jogged to bennett then asked him a question. all this happened because of the ashley cole incident. bennett had to make an example of somebody, and at castle greyskull it wasnt going to be a manc.

the whole incident could have been avoided if bennett had controlled the game from the start. im not making excuses for masch as he was on one from the off. but at the same time bookings were being given out like sweets, and in the biggest game that exists you dont referee a match in that manner. the game was over from that point.

Kopite, thats the other problem. The total lack of consitency from refs. It's about time that some sort of blue print came out about dissent. We spent quite a longtime talking about it last night, and we drew the same conclusions that football should have a look at the rugby blue print in regards to dealing with dissent. It pains me to say it, but it's becoming bloody irritating seeing players swarming around refs, we all know who the biggest culprits are, and yours, mine and other peoples teams have them. Masch should havbe known better, and considering that he was on a yellow it was bloody stupid to get involved.

A regards the Cashley Cole incident, this has probably had some influence on the way Bennett dealt with the match. I'm pretty sure the FA had words with the refs about clamping down hard on it yesterday as it was such a high profile game.

[scousemouse]

As I said last night Scouse, he's going to get hit with a big fine and a further ban for refusing to leave the field of play. Whatever he had for breakfast didn't agree with him, as he acted like a complete plonker. I'm sure that Benitez is quietlt seething with his behaviour if the truth be known.

regardless of what happened before the incident, all he did was ask "whats happenning". people are making out that he "run 20 yards, and shoved alonso out the way" blah de blah.

which he didnt. he half jogged to bennett then asked him a question. all this happened because of the ashley cole incident. bennett had to make an example of somebody, and at castle greyskull it wasnt going to be a manc.

the whole incident could have been avoided if bennett had controlled the game from the start. im not making excuses for masch as he was on one from the off. but at the same time bookings were being given out like sweets, and in the biggest game that exists you dont referee a match in that manner. the game was over from that point.

Kopite, thats the other problem. The total lack of consitency from refs. It's about time that some sort of blue print came out about dissent. We spent quite a longtime talking about it last night, and we drew the same conclusions that football should have a look at the rugby blue print in regards to dealing with dissent. It pains me to say it, but it's becoming bloody irritating seeing players swarming around refs, we all know who the biggest culprits are, and yours, mine and other peoples teams have them. Masch should havbe known better, and considering that he was on a yellow it was bloody stupid to get involved.

A regards the Cashley Cole incident, this has probably had some influence on the way Bennett dealt with the match. I'm pretty sure the FA had words with the refs about clamping down hard on it yesterday as it was such a high profile game.

And after last nights discussions , it was follow the Rugby blue print all the way .

[kopite]

Kopite, thats the other problem. The total lack of consitency from refs. It's about time that some sort of blue print came out about dissent. We spent quite a longtime talking about it last night, and we drew the same conclusions that football should have a look at the rugby blue print in regards to dealing with dissent. It pains me to say it, but it's becoming bloody irritating seeing players swarming around refs, we all know who the biggest culprits are, and yours, mine and other peoples teams have them. Masch should havbe known better, and considering that he was on a yellow it was bloody stupid to get involved.

A regards the Cashley Cole incident, this has probably had some influence on the way Bennett dealt with the match. I'm pretty sure the FA had words with the refs about clamping down hard on it yesterday as it was such a high profile game.

dont get me wrong, i completey agree. problem is that in a few weeks nothing will have changed. it will be very hard to take that part of the game away from the non british players in the league.

the problem is the inconsistency which officials show, espicially towards the high profiles names in the premiership. masch gets set off for asking the ref a question, but yet gerrard tells bennett¨"your a f***ing disgrace" followed by carra calling him a c**t.

if only there were 20 collina´s. problem solved

[mrtoad]

Kopite, thats the other problem. The total lack of consitency from refs. It's about time that some sort of blue print came out about dissent. We spent quite a longtime talking about it last night, and we drew the same conclusions that football should have a look at the rugby blue print in regards to dealing with dissent. It pains me to say it, but it's becoming bloody irritating seeing players swarming around refs, we all know who the biggest culprits are, and yours, mine and other peoples teams have them. Masch should havbe known better, and considering that he was on a yellow it was bloody stupid to get involved.

A regards the Cashley Cole incident, this has probably had some influence on the way Bennett dealt with the match. I'm pretty sure the FA had words with the refs about clamping down hard on it yesterday as it was such a high profile game.

dont get me wrong, i completey agree. problem is that in a few weeks nothing will have changed. it will be very hard to take that part of the game away from the non british players in the league.

the problem is the inconsistency which officials show, espicially towards the high profiles names in the premiership. masch gets set off for asking the ref a question, but yet gerrard tells bennett¨"your a f***ing disgrace" followed by carra calling him a c**t.

if only there were 20 collina´s. problem solved

Yep, too right Kopite. There's def one rule for certain players who seem almost imunne to punishment, and I include players from UTD in that as well.

Shit, I'm going to be overstaying my welcome in the Liverpool thread in a minute.

[kopite]

I know my mate Kopite lives in Pattaya and I think a few of the other lads live there aswell.

I'm going to be in Jomtien this Friday and Saturday on a seminar but I should be able to sneek away for a pint or 7 as long as its late enough .

I'm coming back to Bkk on the Sunday afternoon in time for Bangkok Football Beer Night 7 ( we all know whose playing ) and it would be great if a few of the Pattaya lads could be there .

would have met up mate, but in spain since thursday.

Hope you had a good time in Spain mate .

going to the spain-italy game on wednesday evening. hopefully none of ours will start though.

however might get meself down to their hotel and do some stalking

Edited March 24, 2008 by kopite

[kopite]

Yep, too right Kopite. There's def one rule for certain players who seem almost imunne to punishment, and I include players from UTD in that as well.

Shit, I'm going to be overstaying my welcome in the Liverpool thread in a minute.

for first time ive ever agreed with andy gray.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ttja_ma...time-with_sport

[oldgit]

As I said last night Scouse, he's going to get hit with a big fine and a further ban for refusing to leave the field of play. Whatever he had for breakfast didn't agree with him, as he acted like a complete plonker. I'm sure that Benitez is quietlt seething with his behaviour if the truth be known.

regardless of what happened before the incident, all he did was ask "whats happenning". people are making out that he "run 20 yards, and shoved alonso out the way" blah de blah.

which he didnt. he half jogged to bennett then asked him a question. all this happened because of the ashley cole incident. bennett had to make an example of somebody, and at castle greyskull it wasnt going to be a manc.

the whole incident could have been avoided if bennett had controlled the game from the start. im not making excuses for masch as he was on one from the off. but at the same time bookings were being given out like sweets, and in the biggest game that exists you dont referee a match in that manner. the game was over from that point.

Kopite, thats the other problem. The total lack of consitency from refs. It's about time that some sort of blue print came out about dissent. We spent quite a longtime talking about it last night, and we drew the same conclusions that football should have a look at the rugby blue print in regards to dealing with dissent. It pains me to say it, but it's becoming bloody irritating seeing players swarming around refs, we all know who the biggest culprits are, and yours, mine and other peoples teams have them. Masch should havbe known better, and considering that he was on a yellow it was bloody stupid to get involved.

A regards the Cashley Cole incident, this has probably had some influence on the way Bennett dealt with the match. I'm pretty sure the FA had words with the refs about clamping down hard on it yesterday as it was such a high profile game.

And after last nights discussions , it was follow the Rugby blue print all the way .

Follow the rugby union method of discipline by all means but get the people in the middle and on the lines to have the balls to carry it out.Todays football officials look like scoutmasters,social workers and members of Greenpeace.They get too friendly with the players calling them by their first names and putting a consoling arm around the shoulder.Rugby union referees distance themselves from the players and refer to the numbers on their back if they need to talk to the players.The basic intelligence of the respective participants of both sports is also a factor in acceptance of discipline.

[MSingh]

One thing that i can't get to grips with is the fact that neither Torres or Mascherano speak the best English, yet the Ref can determine not only what they're saying but also brandish Yellow & Reds, yet if you lip read English Players ( Rooney, Lampard, Terry etc etc etc ) every single Saturday & Sunday, you can clearly see more horrific language coming out of their mouths & nothing seems to be done except the Ref saying or arguing his point regarding the incident to teh Player that has just called him every bname under the Sun, then running off.

[kopite]

[scousemouse]

Lets hope he doesnt play :

TORRES SITS OUT SPAIN TRAINING

In-form striker Fernando Torres is a major doubt for Spain's international friendly with Italy this week. The Liverpool striker, who was substituted at Old Trafford on Sunday after suffering knocks to his ribs and ankle, joined up with his Spanish teammates after the game but sat out yesterday's training session in Elche.

Fellow Spaniards Pepe Reina, Xabi Alonso and Alvaro Arbeloa all took part in the session and could be involved in the match at the Martinez Valero Stadium on Wednesday night.

[scousemouse]

A bit of news , well done the reserves and Gary Ablett ( I could have done with one of them sunday night ) :

Three-match ban expected for Javier Mascherano

JAVIER MASCHERANO is expected to be slapped with a three-match ban today following his furious reaction to being sent off at Old Trafford on Sunday.

The Football Association’s disciplinary commission, which did not sit yesterday due to the Bank Holiday, are poised to charge the Liverpool midfielder with improper conduct after being dismissed by referee Steve Bennett for a second bookable offence.

A livid Mascherano refused to immediately leave the field and had to be restrained by team-mates and members of the Liverpool coaching staff, including manager Rafael Benitez, before being ushered down the tunnel.

The normal suspension for being sent off for two yellow cards is a one-match ban, which already rules the Argentina international out of Sunday’s Merseyside derby against Everton at Anfield.

But, given the current debate over respect for referees following Ashley Cole’s behaviour to Mike Riley last week, the FA are poised to fast-track an additional two-match ban, ruling the player out of the April 5 trip to Arsenal and the home clash with Blackburn Rovers on April 13.

However, should Mascherano request a personal hearing, any additional suspension could only be implemented after his case was heard.

And with the 23-year-old on international duty in Egypt until Thursday and then involved in the Champions League quarter-final at Arsenal on Wednesday week, there is an outside possibility any hearing may not take place until after the Premier League visit to the Emirates three days later.

Mascherano yesterday apologised to his team-mates for his sending-off – but revealed he remains in the dark as to why he was red-carded at Old Trafford.

The Argentine, who had already been booked for a foul on Paul Scholes, approached referee Bennett after Fernando Torres had been cautioned for dissent.

While television replays suggested Mascherano did use foul and abusive language, the official nevertheless brandished a second yellow for dissent and subsequent red. Liverpool, who were a goal behind at the time of the 44th-minute dismissal, went on to lose 3-0.

But Mascherano said: “I do not know why I was sent off.

“I asked the referee what was happening. I did not swear, I was not aggressive and I did not confront him.

“All I did was ask him what was happening, nothing else. So when he showed me the second yellow card and sent me off I could not believe it.

“I am sorry to my team-mates because that meant we went down to 10 men and that made things even more difficult for us.”

Meanwhile, Fernando Torres joined up with the Spain squad yesterday ahead of their friendly with Italy on Wednesday.

But the Liverpool striker, who was substituted on Sunday after suffering knocks to his ribs and ankle, sat out the training session in Elche and is a doubt for the game.

Liverpool’s reserves lifted the 2008 Dallas Cup with a 3-0 victory over Mexican side Tigres.

Two goals from Krisztian Nemeth and one from Martin Kelly clinched the U19s Super Group trophy.

[scousemouse]

Last word from sunday , then on to this sunday against the bluesh#te :

MAN U 3-0 LFC: THE VERDICT

It was an afternoon to forget for Liverpool as they had Javier Mascherano controversially sent off and lost 3-0 to Manchester United. Here's the pick of the post-match reaction.

</B>

The local paper

The controversy surrounding the performance of Steve Bennett will rage for days to come but if anyone at Anfield believes he was the reason why Liverpool again played patsy for United they are very much mistaken. The official from Kent had a poor game. His decision making was inconsistent and occasionally flawed and his dismissal of Javier Mascherano smacked of a referee keen to make up for Mike Riley's acquiescence to Ashley Cole in midweek. But Liverpool were already second best in both scoreline and performance before the Argentinian was sent off as Wes Brown became the latest in a long line of unlikely United scorers against the Reds. Liverpool were a sporadic threat on the break in the early exchanges but not much else.

The Echo

The former player

It was a very disappointing day to say the least. Before the game we were all looking forward to getting something out of this game but we always seem to shoot ourselves in the foot against United. We gave away bad goals and we never really got started. I must admit I feared the worst when I saw who the referee was and I wasn't surprised when he sent Mascherano off.

David Fairclough

The player

I do not know why I was sent off. I asked the referee what was happening. I did not swear, I was not aggressive and I did not confront him. All I did was ask him what was happening, nothing else. So when he showed me the second yellow card and sent me off I could not believe it. I am sorry to my teammates because that meant we went down to 10 men and that made things even more difficult for us.

Javier Mascherano

The boss

It's clear Mascherano made a mistake but he was only asking the referee a question. Ryan Babel was there and saw that he was just asking. I do not think that to ask is a big problem in the end. Maybe Javier does not know the referees. If you want to win you must have passion in a big game, and sometimes you make mistakes, but he was only asking the referee about a bad tackle. I have talked to him and he knows it was a mistake. I am really disappointed because we saw two games: one before the sending off and one after.

Rafa Benitez

The fan

It was a truly awful day for all LFC fans. Pepe made some world class saves but unfortunately his two mistakes made the headlines. Carra and Skrtel looked shaky and Masch shouldn't have been sent off at all. He simply queried Bennent's decision to book Torres. If enquiring about a decision is worth a yellow card then every player on the pitch should have got sent off.

Folley 16

[scousemouse]

A good read once again from Paul Tomkins :

TOMKINS: IT'S A GAP, NOT A GULF

Whatever happened at Old Trafford, I had already decided that Liverpool are behind Manchester United in terms of talent but closing the gap.

These fixtures tend to take on an all-defining power, but ultimately it's just one game. And one-off games involve luck, the kind Liverpool haven't done well enough at Old Trafford to deserve in recent years, but which has been unfairly lacking in recent home games against United. United also used to win these games when Liverpool were the best side in the world, while the Reds regularly beat United when they were winning titles at the start of the new millennium, so it's important to put them into perspective.

United, based on the league table, were always going to still be the better team regardless, but the gap is closing in a season where United have actually considerably strengthened (adding £80m-worth of talent), when their squad was already far more expensive than Liverpool's to start with.

The result from Old Trafford, whatever it would be, would only sway my opinion a few percent either way: a draw, and we're where I thought; a win, and we're perhaps 5% ahead; a defeat, and maybe 5% behind. But performance, and ability to deserve more at Old Trafford, would also be important. In the end, maybe that was hardest to judge.

I hadn't reckoned with the Ashley Cole factor, and refs cracking down on any form of dissent following his bad foul and barracking of the ref last week. It's ironic that Liverpool hardly ever harass the referee, and rarely get players sent off, and yet pay the price of a clampdown while teams who misbehave more frequently continue to get away with it. Cole's tackle and reaction were far worse, but he got away with it. Ferguson, meanwhile, had put the referee under more pressure before the match.

Mascherano was clearly treading a tightrope, and while I understand his frustration at being booked for his first tackle while United players were only getting warnings, he should have kept out of things having already been cautioned and can't have too many complaints.

However, if referees are going to give one team all the bookings, and award nonsensical yellow cards, trouble will follow. Torres was being fouled and fouled again, by three United players in three seconds, and when he asked the ref about it, he got booked. Ludicrous, utterly ludicrous. Some refs have admitted letting Wayne Rooney swear at them 20 times or more in a match, and then Mascherano gets sent off for plain dissent following Torres' unfair booking. Where's the consistency?

Ten-man Liverpool showed character in the middle of the second half, and that's encouraging. But when United can bring on £60m-worth of talent (Tevez valued at £30m, even if only on loan initially), you can see the disparity in resources as they turned the screw in the last ten minutes. This when Ferguson's starting team already cost £30m more than Benitez's.

Unfortunately, it all coincided with Pepe Reina experiencing probably his most mixed game for the club - three wonderful saves, but also a couple of costly mistakes. I still think he's the best keeper in the country, but part of United's success has been down to landing Van der Sar after years with dodgy keepers. Can they replace their ageing Dutchman when the time comes?

Much of the constant criticism of Benitez has been that he has never appeared to know what his best team is. I've never seen this as essential in the modern age, when the squad takes on more significance. Isn't it better to have two equally good players competing for one position, where you can't choose your best XI, than one good and one bad, where you easily can?

Ideally you'd want a great player in the mix, and few teams have two of those competing for the same spot. One is hard enough to come by, let alone two.

When trying to work out United's strongest team, who are their best midfielders? Ronaldo, Giggs, Scholes, Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves, Carrick and Fletcher are those who appear most. You could make a strong case for the inclusion of the first seven names in particular, but only four can start at once. Ferguson chops and changes them, and 'rotates' heavily, all without criticism, even when they lose.

If anything, the midfield situation is clearer at Liverpool, particularly since Gerrard was moved into a more advanced role (something Ronaldo also does for United from time to time). The most obvious choices for the two deeper midfielders are Mascherano and Alonso. Lucas is an excellent player for his age, and a handy option at this stage of his career, but is still learning when compared with the other two.

The left-wing role is being nailed down by the exciting Babel, who, like Lucas, is also learning. Babel, however, has the ability to be devastating, and that will only increase with experience of the league and maturity. He's improving, but there's more to come. He's at the stage Ronaldo was two or three years ago.

It's easy to say 'why didn't Benitez do all this at the start of the season', but that misses the point. First of all, Alonso was injured. That left Lucas, who was not ready to be a regular at that stage, and Sissoko, who had lost his confidence. So Gerrard played in a traditional midfield role; and even had he played in his current position, there's nothing to say the understanding with Torres back then would have been as strong as it is now.

Also, Babel wasn't ready to be as consistent; he was struggling to adapt to the pace of the game, and the frequency of matches. It's very hard for a manager expected to challenge for the title to bed in new players straight into the starting XI; there's no patience from outside with regard to mistakes while the adaptation takes place.

I feel that Liverpool are now where United were in 2006. Although the Reds finished just one point behind United that season, Ferguson's project was more advanced. He was about to have Ronaldo and Rooney come of age; whereas Liverpool were never going to get that dramatic improvement from the ageing Fowler and Morientes, while Cisse's pace on the wing had its limitations - he was never going to improve in the way Babel, a clever player, has the potential to.

In 2005/06, Benitez had some new key elements in place - Reina, Agger, Alonso - but since then he's added Torres, Babel, Mascherano, Lucas, Arbeloa, Skrtel, Aurelio and Benayoun, to name just a few. This collection of players is now starting to blend, but it can improve markedly given the age of the team and its time spent together.

Also, United invested even more heavily than Liverpool last summer, building from a position of strength - although they paid around £50m, they added £80m of talent in just four players last summer. How do you close a gap in those circumstances?

In Torres and Gerrard, the Reds have a combination to build success around, in the manner United did with Rooney and Ronaldo, before adding a third axis in Tevez. Of course, as soon as Liverpool found the prolific striker everyone said the club lacked, the focus switched to 'Liverpool rely too much on Torres'. Crazy.

It's important that Liverpool build on the formula the manager has created. But an avoidance of injuries to key players next season will be crucial; it is to any team. It's not possible to say how much a team relies on one player simply by removing their goals from the equation; after all, if they weren't playing, someone else would be. However, I find it hard to believe United would be doing anywhere near as well had Ronaldo suffered a serious injury in August.

Man-for-man, there's not a massive gulf between the two clubs' strongest XIs. But it's about the squad, too. Also, a team is not just a collection of individuals; it's how they gel together, and how much they exceed the sum of their parts. United have the advantage in that sense, having been together longer. They break with such pace and understanding, and that hasn't happened overnight. Liverpool, with Gerrard, Torres and Babel forming a new super-quick attack, are capable of matching them - but in time.

They also have players with league-winning experience from 2003 and before, which helped underpin their recent success. Liverpool are closing the gap in terms of team cohesion and unity, but the psychology of two decades without a league title will always be the hardest barrier to overcome.

A fit Agger, and Liverpool would almost certainly have been closer to the top three. He was missed in a number of home games in particular. Alonso was also missed. I don't think United had to get by without any key first-choice players for long periods this season, bar Gary Neville, who is not crucial to their cause.

Of course, a lot depends on how each of the big teams strengthen over the summer, and how quickly the new additions settle. I just feel that, despite the setback, Benitez is now really close to the side he wants. Will that be enough? With United building upon key elements Ferguson had put in place while Rafa was still at Valencia, it'll be hard. But hopefully not impossible. Time will tell...

[scousemouse]

Team news ahead of the big 1 , sh#t or bust , C'MON LIVERPOOL :

Liverpool v Everton

Anfield

Sunday, 30 March

Kick-off: 1600 BST

Coverage on the BBC Sport website, BBC Radio Five Live & highlights on Match of the Day

Striker Fernando Torres is fit to face Everton after coming through Spain's friendly in midweek with no problems but Javier Mascherano is suspended.

Defender Steve Finnan is close to a return after a groin problem while Yossi Benayoun and John Arne Riise are pushing for a place in the side.

Andrew Johnson (groin) is Everton's main doubt for the Merseyside derby.

Steven Pienaar's fitness will be assessed after illness but Victor Anichebe should be be fit to play.

Interview: Everton boss David Moyes Interview: Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez

Liverpool squad: Reina, Arbeloa, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Skrtel, Riise, Arbeloa, Babel, Benayoun, Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, Torres, Kuyt, Voronin, Crouch, Pennant, Itandje.

Everton squad: Howard, Hibbert, Neville, Yobo, Jagielka, Lescott, Baines, Valente, Arteta, Osman, Carsley, Pienaar, Fernandes, Anichebe, Yakubu, Johnson, Wessels, Rodwell.

Make your Premier League predictions

BIG-MATCH FACTS

The 178th Merseyside league derby is also a head-to-head clash for fourth place in the Premier League and the final Champions League qualifying spot. Liverpool currently hold fourth, Everton are fifth two points behind, and both have seven to play.

Liverpool have only finished outside the top five in one of the last 13 seasons, and outside the top four once in four years; Everton have never had successive top-half finishes in the Premier League era, and are 10 points better off at this stage than last season.

The Toffees have won one more league game than the Reds this term (17 to 16), yet are one place below them.

Liverpool had won seven games on the trot (all competitions) going into last Sunday's fixture. They then dropped points for the first time in six outings when losing 3-0 to Manchester United at Old Trafford, but have won their last five at Anfield.

Liverpool need to score once to total 100 goals in all competitions this season.

Everton have won only two of the last 16 Merseyside derbies against Liverpool, and have not taken away three points from Anfield since their 0-1 victory on 27 September 1999, when Kevin Campbell got the winner.

This Merseyside derby precedes three successive clashes with Arsenal in the Champions League quarter-finals and Premier League for Liverpool, starting with the European tie at the Emirates on Wednesday.

CLUB FORM

LIVERPOOL

Club statsFixtures (all statistics are ahead of this weekend's round of Premier League fixtures, and refer to stats and sequences in the Premier League only, unless stated otherwise)

1. Lost one of eight (all competitions).

2. Picked up 19 points from a last available 24.

3. Lost four times; only Arsenal (twice) and Chelsea (three times) have been beaten less frequently.

4. Drawn 11 - only Fulham match that.

5. Conceded 24 goals; only Manchester United (15) and Chelsea (23) have shipped fewer. Also, allowed the opposition to score first in eight games; only Manchester United can better that (five times).

6. Registered five goalless draws. Only Portsmouth have also been involved in as many as that.

7. Won only one of the last five against North-West clubs; 1-3 against Bolton at the Reebok on 2 March.

8. Won the last five at home against Sunderland, Middlesbrough, West Ham, Newcastle and Reading. Aston Villa were the last club to leave Anfield with a point (2-2 on 21 January); Manchester United are the only club this season to take all three points away (0-1, 16 December).

9. Lost one of 20 at Anfield in over a year, and scored 15 goals in the last five there.

10. The league run-in is:-

Arsenal (a)

Blackburn (h)

Fulham (a)

Birmingham (a)

Manchester City (h)

Tottenham (a)

EVERTON

Club statsFixtures (all statistics are ahead of this weekend's round of Premier League fixtures, and refer to stats and sequences in the Premier League only, unless stated otherwise)

1. Won seven and drawn three of their 11 matches in 2008.

2. Conceded a total of four goals in 11 outings, keeping seven clean sheets.

3. Completed 11 matches since conceding more than a single goal in a game; it is the longest current such sequence in this league.

4. The current tally of 57 points after 31 games is six points more than the previous highest at this stage in the 2004-05 season, when they finished fourth.

5. Opened the scoring in 20 matches; only Manchester United have scored the first goal more often (25 times).

6. Picked up fewer cards than any other club from matches in this league; 33 (three red, 30 yellow).

7. Unbeaten in five against clubs from the North-West (four wins, one draw); lost one of eight away against clubs from the region (2-1 to Manchester United at Old Trafford on 23 December 2007).

8. Picked up 27 away points; only Chelsea (33) and Manchester United (30) have picked up more.

9. Kept seven clean sheets on their travels; only Chelsea have achieved more (eight).

10. The run-in is:-

Derby (h)

Birmingham (a)

Chelsea (h)

Aston Villa (h)

Arsenal (a)

Newcastle (h)

KEY PLAYER NOTES

LIVERPOOL

Fernando TORRES is Liverpool's top scorer with 27 goals, and their leading marksman in the Premier League with 20.

TORRES and GERRARD have scored a total of 30 league goals between them.

Javier MASCHERANO was the first Liverpool player to be sent off in a Premier League game in 70 matches in almost two years, when dismissed against Manchester United last Sunday. Luis Garcia was the previous Liverpool player to see red, against West Ham on 26 April 2006.

Goalkeeper Jose REINA is the only remaining player to have been on the field for every minute of every one of Liverpool's Premier League matches this season.

REINA leads the race for the Barclays Golden Glove, going into this round of Premier League fixtures, having kept 14 clean sheets.

If selected:-

REINA will be making his 100th Premier League appearance - all in goal for Liverpool.

Alvaro ARBELOA and Fabio AURELIO will be making their 50th appearances for Liverpool.

Suspended:-

Javier MASCHERANO (one match)

EVERTON

YAKUBU is Everton's top scorer with 19 goals.

YAKUBU is also the clubs' top Premier League marksman with 13.

Andy JOHNSON is one short of 100 career league goals (Birmingham, Crystal Palace and Everton).

JOHNSON was the last Everton player to score in a Merseyside derby. He sealed a 3-0 home win with a 90th minute goal, his second of the match, on 9 September 2006. (Everton's goal in this season's reverse fixture was an own goal from Sami Hyypia).

If selected:-

Tony HIBBERT will be making his 150th Premier League start in an Everton shirt.

HEAD TO HEAD

Liverpool are hoping to do the double over their local rivals for the third time in the Premier League, and first since 2005-06.

More red cards have been issued in Premier League matches between Liverpool and Everton than any other match-up; 16 (Liverpool six, Everton 10). The last two came in the reverse fixture in October when the Toffees ended with nine men.

Home and away

League (inc PL): Liverpool 66 wins, Everton 56, Draws 55

Prem: Liverpool 12 wins, Everton 8, Draws 11

at Liverpool only

League (inc PL): Liverpool 37 wins, Everton 23, Draws 28

Prem: Liverpool 6 wins, Everton 2, Draws 7

LAST SEASON'S CORRESPONDING GAME

Liverpool 0-0 Everton

3 February 2007 - Ref: Alan Wiley

THIS SEASON'S REVERSE FIXTURE

Everton 1-2 Liverpool

20 October 2007 - Ref: Mark Clattenburg

Everton scorer: Hyypia 38 og

Liverpool scorers: Kuyt 54 pen, 90 pen

Sent Off: Hibbert 53, Neville 90 (both Everton)

REFEREE Howard Webb (Yorkshire) Premier League referees' tableHoward Webb's 2007-08 Premier League card count

[scousemouse]

An interview before the game with Carra :

CARRAGHER READY FOR 'MAKE OR BREAK' SPELL

Jamie Carragher today backed his Liverpool teammates to cope with a daunting set of fixtures over the next ten days - starting with this afternoon's Merseyside derby at Anfield. The battle for fourth place in the Premier League could take a decisive turn this afternoon when Liverpool host Everton in a 4pm kick-off, after which attention will turn to a triple header with Arsenal when Champions League qualification and league points will be at stake.

Carragher admits it's a make or break point of the season for the Reds, but he insists their past experience of competing at the business end of the season will stand them in good stead for the challenges which lie ahead.

"We're used to coping with these demanding schedules," he said. "This is a make or break spell - we all realise that - but I'm sure our pedigree in coping with these situations will stand us in good stead.

"In recent years we've always been there or thereabouts in the cup competitions. You can go as far as the 2001 season when every match was like a cup final, both in terms of the three trophies we won and the importance of league games in qualifying for the Champions League.

"I also look back to 2005 and can see the similarities when things didn't go well in the league, but the only thing that sticks in anyone's mind is the fact we won the European Cup.

"If we were to repeat that then no-one will talk about anything else that's happened this season in the years to come. No-one will be saying it was a bad time for the club then. We'd just look back and say 2008 was great.

"I hope these experiences are going to help us. There's always a point at this time of year when you look at the fixtures and you see four or five games together which will basically decide how the season will go. It's the same now.

"I know I'm much happier having so many big games coming up at the same time. That's what every player wants at this time of the year and this is where the season really gets defined. If we can come through this spell successfully, everyone will take a different view on how its gone and we can look ahead to next season with more confidence.

"We've always said the time to judge us is in May and that still stands. We've still got a chance to make it a memorable season for the right reasons.

"We can't be thinking about Arsenal yet though because for me the derby is still the biggest game of the season, even more so than Manchester United.

"The United game was a big disappointment. We didn't play well and it was a really bad day, but there's no better opportunity to put that right than in a derby."

[scousemouse]

Let's hope this will lessen the ban , he will be missed tonight but I hope Rafa picks Lucas and keeps the same formation instead of picking Crouch or Voronin and changing the formation :

Javier Mascherano sends letter of apology to ref Steve Bennett

Javier Mascherano has sent a letter of apology to Steve Bennett, the referee who dismissed him at Old Trafford.The Liverpool midfielder has said sorry to the official after he lost control when shown a second yellow card during a combustible contest with Manchester United.

Mascherano yesterday accepted an FA charge of improper conduct and has asked for a personal hearing to give himself the chance to show he has apologised and regrets his actions. The Argentine sent the letter to Bennett this week and in it he expressed regret and admitted he let the club and his team-mates down.

Mascherano has been fined two weeks' wages by Liverpool after accepting the charge, which amounts to a penalty of around £120,000. Manager Rafa Benitez said his player knew he was in the wrong, particularly losing control after being shown the red card and added that the fine will be given to charity.

Benitez said: "The player has apologised for his reaction after the sending off. He knew after the game he'd made a mistake and now we're waiting for the hearing.

"He's a fantastic pro, and he and the club have had no problems with red cards this year. It was a special situation and everyone was surprised.

"We'll fine the player, he accepts that and proposed we give it to charity. Everything has been sorted internally."

Mascherano misses tomorrow's showdown with Everton after picking up an automatic one-game ban for the two yellow cards at Old Trafford.

His hearing in front of the FA disciplinary committee is on Friday and Liverpool hope his remorse will keep the extra ban to the minimum of one game.

Edited March 30, 2008 by scousemouse

[scousemouse]

Well we dominated the first half and should have been more than 1-0 at the break.

The second half we looked to defend more and were just waiting for the final whistle as the importance of the game got to the players a bit I thought.

But som nam nar to the bluesh#te , if you come to Anfield with one up front and are 1-0 down after 7 minutes and don't change anything untill the last 15 minutes then you deserve to get beat.

A good confidence booster ahead of our treble against the gooners .

[mrtoad]

Looks like Hicks and Gilletts spat is becoming even more public, not sure if you have seen this article yet, but how bloody childish can you get?

Americans grab all Liverpool freebies

21:36pm 31st March 2008 - Daily Mail

Liverpool's warring American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett are set for an extraordinary boardroom showdown at Arsenal's Emirates Stadium on Wednesday after demanding the club's entire allocation of directors' box tickets for the Champions League quarter-final first leg.

English clubs receive a reciprocal 20 tickets each for their top brass for their away European leg. And after Hicks put in his claim for 16 of the seats, Gillett commandeered the remaining four.

This leaves Gillett rather outnumbered for his first confrontation with Hicks since he described their relationship on Montreal radio as unworkable and blamed the Texan co-owner of Anfield for all the problems — including death threats to his family — since their ill-fated takeover.

Other members of the Liverpool hierarchy, such as chief executive Rick Parry and president David Moores, are struggling to find a seat for the sell-out. Arsenal are unable to help with Liverpool's request for extra directors' box places.

Feelings were already running high within Liverpool over the American excesses before their Arsenal ticket grab, especially after the home game against Reading which was attended by a 12-strong entourage of younger members of the Hicks family.

The girls in the group did not even bother to watch the second half, preferring to take advantage of the complimentary champagne and vodka at the bar.

In contrast, Arsenal will be pleased to see their American sports magnate shareholder, Stan Kroenke. He is due to attend the Premier League game against Liverpool on Saturday, as well as finalise a broadband deal and marketing links with his football franchise Colorado Rapids

[mrbojangles]

This is a nice write up from the BBC on Tommy Smith

Coping with Christiano Ronaldo By Phil Gordos

Tommy Smith's reply was telling. Asked how he would go about subduing Manchester United's mercurial winger Cristiano Ronaldo, the legendary Liverpool hardman was unequivocal: "Don't go for the player, go for the ball."

I had half expected him to say he would give the tricky Portuguese star a sly dig in the ribs when the referee wasn't looking, maybe even threaten him with a trip to row Z if he dared make him look silly with one of his trademark stepovers.

Not a bit of it. "He's a crafty player and looks like he's dancing around the ball at times," Smith told BBC Sport. "The only thing to do is keep your eye on the ball and not let him con you. You have got to be as crafty as he is."

Smith, who turns 63 on 5 April, insists he was hard but fair as a player, although I am sure there are a few ex-footballers out there who would testify otherwise.

Smith was, after all, an uncompromising figure on and off the football pitch, a player who opposition forwards tended to avoid like the plague - and for good reason.

"I did warn players," said Smith. "When Tottenham striker Jimmy Greaves came out at Anfield one time I handed him a piece of paper. He said: 'What's this?' I said: 'Just open it.' It was the menu from the Liverpool Infirmary."

But Smith's bark was often far worse than his bite.

For all the stories and hyperbole associated with the so-called Anfield Iron, he amassed only one red and three yellow cards in a career that resulted in him playing more than 600 times for Liverpool - and that sending off was for dissent.

That certainly does not sound like a player who went around kicking anything and everything that moved.

"I've only been involved in one bad tackle," he assured me.

"I was a marauding inside-left playing in the Liverpool reserves at the age of 15 when I went into a tackle with a lad from Nottingham Forest and he came out of it with a broken leg.

"I sent him a letter apologising but it was just an ordinary tackle, just one of those things. It wasn't over the top or a case of jumping in with two feet."

In fact, Smith, who won every major club honour going with Liverpool, including four First Division championship medals, two FA Cups, one European Cup, two Uefa Cups and one European Super Cup, claims he was more sinned against than sinner during his 19-year professional career.

"Someone took the side of my knee off once, while another fella scraped his foot down my right shin," he said.

"There was no blood or anything. I rolled down my sock and I was looking at my shinbone. That is when the fun started."

Smith revealed he was also a target off the pitch, his image ensuring every wannabe tough guy sought him out in an attempt to enhance his own reputation.

"A few times people asked me if I was Tommy Smith and wanted to step outside," he remembered.

"Sometimes I said 'yes' but I'm not someone who went around beating people up.

"If somebody has a go at me I can take care of myself.

"I have never started a fight in my life but I have finished a few. Sometimes I shudder when I think about what I have done."

There are few players of Smith's ilk around these days. That is not a lament, just a fact.

Certainly, the monikers like those from the Sixties and Seventies, when Smith and fellow hardmen Ron 'Chopper' Harris and Norman 'Bite Yer Legs' Hunter were in their element, are no more.

Unsurprisingly, Smith suggests football has gone a bit soft.

"The game is a farce now and I don't think tackling is at all acceptable these days," he stated.

"There are a lot of cheats in the game, too, with people throwing themselves around and rolling over and over."

Maybe so but Smith, a clever and canny player, would no doubt have adapted to the modern game.

He demonstrated several times during his Liverpool career that he was capable of re-inventing himself.

He started off as an inside-left under Bill Shankly, quickly demonstrating an eye for goal before cementing himself at the heart of a formidable Reds defence.

Then when Emlyn Hughes, a person he disliked intensely, arrived at Anfield, he turned himself into a right-back of considerable prowess.

Naturally, Smith was fond of managers Shankly and Bob Paisley. I say 'naturally' because it seems few people had a bad word to say about either man.

And it was Shankly who summed up Smith best: "Tommy Smith wasn't born, he was quarried."

Smith's body may now boast two plastic knees, a replacement hip and a new elbow but it's a fitting epitaph.

Edited April 1, 2008 by mrbojangles

[suegha]

Interesting post bj!

Ah, the old days when you could tackle - and people didn't dive when you just looked at them!

[scousemouse]

Looks like Hicks and Gilletts spat is becoming even more public, not sure if you have seen this article yet, but how bloody childish can you get?

Americans grab all Liverpool freebies

21:36pm 31st March 2008 - Daily Mail

Liverpool's warring American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett are set for an extraordinary boardroom showdown at Arsenal's Emirates Stadium on Wednesday after demanding the club's entire allocation of directors' box tickets for the Champions League quarter-final first leg.

pathetic

[scousemouse]

This is a nice write up from the BBC on Tommy Smith

Coping with Christiano Ronaldo By Phil Gordos

Tommy Smith's reply was telling. Asked how he would go about subduing Manchester United's mercurial winger Cristiano Ronaldo, the legendary Liverpool hardman was unequivocal: "Don't go for the player, go for the ball."

I had half expected him to say he would give the tricky Portuguese star a sly dig in the ribs when the referee wasn't looking, maybe even threaten him with a trip to row Z if he dared make him look silly with one of his trademark stepovers.

Not a bit of it. "He's a crafty player and looks like he's dancing around the ball at times," Smith told BBC Sport. "The only thing to do is keep your eye on the ball and not let him con you. You have got to be as crafty as he is."

Smith, who turns 63 on 5 April, insists he was hard but fair as a player, although I am sure there are a few ex-footballers out there who would testify otherwise.

Smith was, after all, an uncompromising figure on and off the football pitch, a player who opposition forwards tended to avoid like the plague - and for good reason.

"I did warn players," said Smith. "When Tottenham striker Jimmy Greaves came out at Anfield one time I handed him a piece of paper. He said: 'What's this?' I said: 'Just open it.' It was the menu from the Liverpool Infirmary."

But Smith's bark was often far worse than his bite.

For all the stories and hyperbole associated with the so-called Anfield Iron, he amassed only one red and three yellow cards in a career that resulted in him playing more than 600 times for Liverpool - and that sending off was for dissent.

That certainly does not sound like a player who went around kicking anything and everything that moved.

"I've only been involved in one bad tackle," he assured me.

"I was a marauding inside-left playing in the Liverpool reserves at the age of 15 when I went into a tackle with a lad from Nottingham Forest and he came out of it with a broken leg.

"I sent him a letter apologising but it was just an ordinary tackle, just one of those things. It wasn't over the top or a case of jumping in with two feet."

In fact, Smith, who won every major club honour going with Liverpool, including four First Division championship medals, two FA Cups, one European Cup, two Uefa Cups and one European Super Cup, claims he was more sinned against than sinner during his 19-year professional career.

"Someone took the side of my knee off once, while another fella scraped his foot down my right shin," he said.

"There was no blood or anything. I rolled down my sock and I was looking at my shinbone. That is when the fun started."

Smith revealed he was also a target off the pitch, his image ensuring every wannabe tough guy sought him out in an attempt to enhance his own reputation.

"A few times people asked me if I was Tommy Smith and wanted to step outside," he remembered.

"Sometimes I said 'yes' but I'm not someone who went around beating people up.

"If somebody has a go at me I can take care of myself.

"I have never started a fight in my life but I have finished a few. Sometimes I shudder when I think about what I have done."

There are few players of Smith's ilk around these days. That is not a lament, just a fact.

Certainly, the monikers like those from the Sixties and Seventies, when Smith and fellow hardmen Ron 'Chopper' Harris and Norman 'Bite Yer Legs' Hunter were in their element, are no more.

Unsurprisingly, Smith suggests football has gone a bit soft.

"The game is a farce now and I don't think tackling is at all acceptable these days," he stated.

"There are a lot of cheats in the game, too, with people throwing themselves around and rolling over and over."

Maybe so but Smith, a clever and canny player, would no doubt have adapted to the modern game.

He demonstrated several times during his Liverpool career that he was capable of re-inventing himself.

He started off as an inside-left under Bill Shankly, quickly demonstrating an eye for goal before cementing himself at the heart of a formidable Reds defence.

Then when Emlyn Hughes, a person he disliked intensely, arrived at Anfield, he turned himself into a right-back of considerable prowess.

Naturally, Smith was fond of managers Shankly and Bob Paisley. I say 'naturally' because it seems few people had a bad word to say about either man.

And it was Shankly who summed up Smith best: "Tommy Smith wasn't born, he was quarried."

Smith's body may now boast two plastic knees, a replacement hip and a new elbow but it's a fitting epitaph.

Nice read Mr b

Tommy Smith still alive and kicking and speaking . Liverpool legend .