Liverpool F.c.

[Jimjim]

Lucas just sucked a big one. A bit surprising as I think everyone was impressed with him against Newcastle. Alonso only came on for the last 20 minutes in that one.

I would have been incensed if Stoke had actually scored in the 12th when they hit the post and yet three active players were clearly offside on the ball played in to the box. Okay, these days active seems to mean if you touch it first but one of those three did touch it first. Blind linesman on that one, good thing he got the second one.

[bkkjames]

I don't understand Rafa sometimes (most of the time actually). You have 20 million pound striker who has been scoring of late and he doesn't play in a 0-0 game and you are chasing the title?

[StevieH]

bad, bad day at the office that. and rafa still puzzles the fuc_k out of me sometimes.

long way to go yet though.

[bkkjames]

bad, bad day at the office that. and rafa still puzzles the fuc_k out of me sometimes.

long way to go yet though.

don't want to say I told you so, but I did warn of the 'late game draws' this year. Trend continues.

[StevieH]

bad, bad day at the office that. and rafa still puzzles the fuc_k out of me sometimes.

long way to go yet though.

don't want to say I told you so, but I did warn of the 'late game draws' this year. Trend continues.

we're a big TV draw. i think we play fewer 3pm saturday games than anyone else.

[bkkjames]

bad, bad day at the office that. and rafa still puzzles the fuc_k out of me sometimes.

long way to go yet though.

don't want to say I told you so, but I did warn of the 'late game draws' this year. Trend continues.

we're a big TV draw. i think we play fewer 3pm saturday games than anyone else.

buying into rafa's conspiracy theories again?

[StevieH]

bad, bad day at the office that. and rafa still puzzles the fuc_k out of me sometimes.

long way to go yet though.

don't want to say I told you so, but I did warn of the 'late game draws' this year. Trend continues.

we're a big TV draw. i think we play fewer 3pm saturday games than anyone else.

buying into rafa's conspiracy theories again?

everything rafa said about ferguson was correct. no theories, no ranting, not an emotional outburst. just stating what everyone has known for a long time.

[bkkjames]

bad, bad day at the office that. and rafa still puzzles the fuc_k out of me sometimes.

long way to go yet though.

don't want to say I told you so, but I did warn of the 'late game draws' this year. Trend continues.

we're a big TV draw. i think we play fewer 3pm saturday games than anyone else.

buying into rafa's conspiracy theories again?

everything rafa said about ferguson was correct. no theories, no ranting, not an emotional outburst. just stating what everyone has known for a long time.

like Rafa, you should check the facts first stevie boy before commenting....

Benitez is an almost compulsive intriguer. He has spent the last year engaged in a loosely concealed attempt to undermine his own chief executive, Rick Parry, employing innuendo and double-speak rather than come out and clearly define his position.

He left Valencia after falling out with the club's sporting director and has continuously tussled for every advantage behind the scenes at Liverpool.

Yet this attack on Ferguson is not the Machiavellian scheme some might attribute to Benitez.

Leaving aside, for a moment, the accusation that Benitez has risen to Ferguson's bait, it is worth examining the validity of Benitez's various accusations. Disinformation and half-truth abound.

Charge 1 "We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off."

There has only been one player sent off at Old Trafford this season. In September, Middlesbrough's Emanuel Pogatetz was shown the red card after he went in two-footed on Rodrigo Possebon. The young Brazilian midfielder was lucky to avoid serious injury and both the Boro manager Gareth Southgate and Pogatetz apologised. There can be absolutely no dispute.

Two players have been sent off for the opposition at Anfield this season. Wigan's Luis Antonio Valencia was sent off for two bookings in October in a game that Liverpool won 3-2. His first caution was for encroaching on a free-kick. Here's what Steve Bruce said about it: "I just thought all the little decisions in the second half went Liverpool's way. It's difficult enough coming to Anfield, but you need some fairness and strength. Two minutes after Valencia was dismissed, [Nabil] El Zhar tackled Mario Melchiot in the same way and... nothing. That's what annoys us to."

The other player to be sent off at Anfield? Nemanja Vidic of Manchester United.

Hardly fits Benitez's conspiracy, does it?

Charge 2 "During the respect campaign, and this is a fact, Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett. He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things."

Ferguson was charged for making some pretty pathetic and disparaging remarks about Atkinson after the FA Cup quarter-final defeat to Portsmouth in March.

Carlos Queiroz, his then assistant, was also charged. Both were later cleared by an independent commission, not the FA.

In regards Hackett, Ferguson accused him of being biased towards Chelsea after John Terry's red card against Manchester City was rescinded. Ferguson looked paranoid – the decision to send off Terry had been considered pretty harsh – and not a little self-interested as Terry was freed up to play United. And perhaps the FA's failure to punish Ferguson was a weakness.

But to suggest other managers get punished misses the mark. Everton's David Moyes has been fined £5,000, Phil Brown has been fined £1,000 and Roy Keane received no fine at all relating to charges of improper conduct. All were warned about their future conduct. Joe Kinnear has two charges outstanding.

While this might show that the Respect campaign is a sham, it does not suggest the FA are cracking down on anyone. Not a touchline ban to be seen.

Oh, except for Ferguson, who was given a two-game ban for abusing Mike Dean after a the 4-3 win over Hull in November. He also got a £10,000 fine. So he is the one manager who has been substantially punished by the FA this season.

Charge 3 "Then he was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays – and we didn't say anything."

Ferguson's claims of an anti-United bias in the fixture schedule are laughable. But so is Benitez's counter-suggestion that United were favoured in the past. True, Liverpool did play five away fixtures in the early Saturday slot in the 2006-07 season, losing two, winning two and drawing one.

But then United also played five away games for the Saturday matinee audience. Again, Benitez seems to have his facts wrong. He is right that United played more Sunday games that season – nine to Liverpool's five – but they are hardly advantageous if you are playing in the middle of the following week.

Jose Mourinho used to complain that the English league disadvantaged its Champions League competitors by failing to move games that undermined preparation for big ties. But then all teams have been disadvantaged equally.

Few managers take on Ferguson and come off unscathed. Benitez's courage might be applauded if only his claims had more substance. Ferguson is petty and irrational, and he will wind you up until you crack.

[mrtoad]

Rafa has risen to the bait, and IMO has "lost it', I'm sure Fergie was grinning like a cheshire cat when he heard the outburst. Pressure is now back on.

[Jimjim]

Charge 1 "We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off."

He was talking about Mascherano in all likelihood, and not just about this season. He was talking about being at Old Trafford, not Anfield. Next.

Charge 2 "During the respect campaign, and this is a fact, Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett. He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things."

He was talking about the respect campaign in its height which was last season. About time Dame Fergie got punished this year, he's saying he gets away with a lot more than any other manager on the whole and is probably right. They at least got it right once this season.

Charge 3 "Then he was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays – and we didn't say anything."

Benitez called him correctly on this one, as you noted. What's so wrong with that? Ferguson somehow thinks it's a disadvantage to have Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool at home in the second half of this season. Laughable, indeed. I think it was just five years of pressure of these things building on Benitez's mind, so he got it off his chest. Of course the media love controversy so they read more into it than there is, and like to make a bigger deal out of anything to get readers.

That said, looks like Benitez has got under your skin, mate. A little scared perhaps?

Rafa has risen to the bait, and IMO has "lost it', I'm sure Fergie was grinning like a cheshire cat when he heard the outburst. Pressure is now back on.

Amazing. He lost it? All he did was say what everyone has wanted to say, and even top former referees were agreeing with him. The media are idiots. An outburst? Get real. He never lost control of his emotions in that press conference, he was just telling how he sees it. He wasn't ranting and raving like all the obviously biased commentators liked to put it. Kudos to those commentators who recognized that. How is that losing it? Worthless couch potato commentary, that is.

[bkkjames]

Charge 1 "We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off."

He was talking about Mascherano in all likelihood, and not just about this season. He was talking about being at Old Trafford, not Anfield. Next.

Charge 2 "During the respect campaign, and this is a fact, Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett. He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things."

He was talking about the respect campaign in its height which was last season. About time Dame Fergie got punished this year, he's saying he gets away with a lot more than any other manager on the whole and is probably right. They at least got it right once this season.

Charge 3 "Then he was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays – and we didn't say anything."

Benitez called him correctly on this one, as you noted. What's so wrong with that? Ferguson somehow thinks it's a disadvantage to have Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool at home in the second half of this season. Laughable, indeed. I think it was just five years of pressure of these things building on Benitez's mind, so he got it off his chest. Of course the media love controversy so they read more into it than there is, and like to make a bigger deal out of anything to get readers.

That said, looks like Benitez has got under your skin, mate. A little scared perhaps?

Rafa has risen to the bait, and IMO has "lost it', I'm sure Fergie was grinning like a cheshire cat when he heard the outburst. Pressure is now back on.

Amazing. He lost it? All he did was say what everyone has wanted to say, and even top former referees were agreeing with him. The media are idiots. An outburst? Get real. He never lost control of his emotions in that press conference, he was just telling how he sees it. He wasn't ranting and raving like all the obviously biased commentators liked to put it. Kudos to those commentators who recognized that. How is that losing it? Worthless couch potato commentary, that is.

Sounds like Rafa is not the only one taking the bait..

[Jimjim]

Ha ha ha.

Queer.

[bkkjames]

Ha ha ha.

Queer.

Come on ducktail, surely an educated LP man such as yourself can come back with something a little more than what would be expected of a Reds fan?

[mrtoad]

Charge 1 "We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off."

He was talking about Mascherano in all likelihood, and not just about this season. He was talking about being at Old Trafford, not Anfield. Next.

Charge 2 "During the respect campaign, and this is a fact, Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett. He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things."

He was talking about the respect campaign in its height which was last season. About time Dame Fergie got punished this year, he's saying he gets away with a lot more than any other manager on the whole and is probably right. They at least got it right once this season.

Charge 3 "Then he was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays – and we didn't say anything."

Benitez called him correctly on this one, as you noted. What's so wrong with that? Ferguson somehow thinks it's a disadvantage to have Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool at home in the second half of this season. Laughable, indeed. I think it was just five years of pressure of these things building on Benitez's mind, so he got it off his chest. Of course the media love controversy so they read more into it than there is, and like to make a bigger deal out of anything to get readers.

That said, looks like Benitez has got under your skin, mate. A little scared perhaps?

Rafa has risen to the bait, and IMO has "lost it', I'm sure Fergie was grinning like a cheshire cat when he heard the outburst. Pressure is now back on.

Amazing. He lost it? All he did was say what everyone has wanted to say, and even top former referees were agreeing with him. The media are idiots. An outburst? Get real. He never lost control of his emotions in that press conference, he was just telling how he sees it. He wasn't ranting and raving like all the obviously biased commentators liked to put it. Kudos to those commentators who recognized that. How is that losing it? Worthless couch potato commentary, that is.

Sounds like Rafa is not the only one taking the bait..

Yep, seems that they just can stay away from the United thread.

Ah well, I still think Liverpool will finish in the top four.

[mrtoad]

Torres backs Man Utd for league

Torres believes 14 March will be the crunch date in the title race

Liverpool striker Fernando Torres believes that Manchester United are favourites to win the Premier League title after their 3-0 win over Chelsea.

Leaders Liverpool have a five point lead over third-placed United, but the Manchester side have two games in hand.

"They are the favourites and the champions right now and have shown over the years they are a very powerful team," said the 24-year-old Spaniard.

"They have two more games to play. If they catch up they will be top."

Torres, who was one of the nominees for the Fifa Player of the Year title, won by United's Cristiano Ronaldo, said his side's match at Old Trafford on 14 March could decide the destination of the title.

"We know we have Old Trafford waiting for us and then Arsenal and Chelsea at home - we have to fight until the very end," added the forward.

"The match at Old Trafford could turn out to be the decider and we hope we can be on an equal footing when we go there and try to win the match at a place that has not been advantageous for us in the past."

United are at home to Wigan on Wednesday before travelling to Bolton next Saturday.

Wins would see Sir Alex Ferguson's side gain the advantage in the title race with Liverpool not playing their next match until Monday 19 January when they host the derby against Everton.

Guess even the Liverpool players are starting to question themselves.

[StevieH]

Rafa has risen to the bait, and IMO has "lost it', I'm sure Fergie was grinning like a cheshire cat when he heard the outburst. Pressure is now back on.

nah he hasn't. rafa's never been remotely prone to emotional outbursts and generally doesn't do anything without a lot of forethought and a reason. this is a good piece from the echo:

TONY BARRETT: Rafa Benitez is a fighter – it's no surprise that he has squared up to Alex Ferguson - Liverpool Echo.co.uk

YOU have to go back more than 20 years to the last time a Liverpool manager verbally took on Alex Ferguson.

On that occasion, back in April 1988, Kenny Dalglish famously held aloft his baby daughter Lauren and informed members of Her Majesty's press that they would get more sense out of her than the United boss, who was ranting and raving about decisions not going his way at Anfield.

The put down worked. Fergie was stopped in his tracks, Dalglish had shown his ability to get the better of an adversary with a single line and, most importantly, Liverpool finished the season as champions.

Rafa Benitez is an altogether different animal to his Anfield predecessor. Without the language skills or the cutting humour honed on decades of banter in British football's dressing rooms, the Spaniard is only marginally more likely to come out with a telling quip than he is to exchange pleasantries with Jose Mourinho.

But, like Dalglish, he is a fighter and if he feels that putting himself on the line is the best thing for his club that is exactly what he will do.

So, although the timing of Benitez's outburst against Ferguson and his empire may well have been surprising, the fact that he did it was not.

This is a manager, don't forget, who a little over a year ago detonated a bomb under Liverpool's boardroom when he used a press conference to reveal just how bad his relationship had become with owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

This time the setting was exactly the same and the shockwaves from the explosion he caused were just as widespread. The only difference was that the grenade he had chucked landed at Old Trafford, not Anfield.

In the immediate aftermath even seasoned Liverpool observers struggled with what to make of Benitez's sensational eruption.

Was this a manager feeling the pressure? Had he taken Ferguson's bait and put his team and himself at the mercy of United, the reigning champions of England and Europe, let's not forget.

Or was it a moment of inspiration from a street fighter who was prepared to take the battle to Liverpool's great rivals after establishing a position of strength at the top of the Premier League table?

The debate will rage and the final answer will not be known until the season has ended and the final ordering of the league table either makes Benitez look a genius or a fool.

But one thing even his biggest critics have not accused the Liverpool boss of being is wrong. For decades some of English football's leading figures have tip-toed around the elephant in the room that is Fergie's bullying of officialdom.

Finally, someone has had the bottle to call it for what it is and the catalogue of facts that Benitez produced in an attempt to prove his point could have been a whole lot longer had it not dated back only to incidents over the last 12 months.

Benitez has never been afraid to take on the established order and the best example of his refusal to bow down to perceived sacred cows came during his last season in charge of Valencia.

After seeing his team concede a 93rd minute equaliser from the penalty spot against Real Madrid after the fourth official had indicated just a single minute of stoppage time, he launched into a tirade aimed at highlighting the degree of power Spain's regal team held over the rest of La Liga.

"For some people we are too strong a rival and it would obviously be wrong for us to win the league," he said.

"I saw the fourth official's board clearly. Without the extra minutes they would not have blown for a penalty."

"In any 100 other matches, they wouldn't have awarded that penalty. At the Bernabeu, you have to win twice just to get half a result."

Benitez is no novice when it comes to mind games and Kevin Keegan is clearly not the reference point that certain people would have us believe that he is.

For, whereas Keegan blew up in an emotional, spur of the moment reaction, Benitez's outburst was calculated, detailed, measured and had been prepared for some time before the outburst – hence the page full of notes he pulled from his pocket at the outset.

Furthermore, Keegan's eruption came as it became increasingly apparent that his Newcastle team was cracking under the pressure and was about to succumb to United.

Benitez's came with his team on top of the league and at a time when it was finally beginning to be seen as genuine title challengers. It was as if the Reds boss had been emboldened by Liverpool's form and decided to strike while the iron was hot.

There is no doubt, though, that Benitez has reacted to Ferguson's jibes and that is what the Glaswegian is looking for every time he declares psychological warfare.

Like the pub bully who keeps poking you in the chest looking for a reaction, the best answer is usually to refuse to give him what he wants and instead to turn the other cheek.

But sometimes you have to stand up to such antagonism, fight fire with fire, and put the aggressor in his place or face a lifetime of subjugation.

This is the path Benitez has chosen and it should be remembered that the last time he went to the mattresses after taking on a seemingly unbreakable opponent it was the softly spoken Spaniard who inflicted most damage on his adversary.

On that occasion it was Mourinho himself, another apparent master of the dark arts, who yielded as the infinitely superior Chelsea side he had put together with Roman Abramovich's millions was twice dumped out of the Champions League at the semi-final stage by Benitez's Liverpool.

It was only when the special one was removed from the equation that Chelsea were able to find their way past Liverpool in Europe's biggest and most prestigious cup competition.

Benitez is no novice. He knew what he was doing when he launched into a tirade against Ferguson.

The only thing that has surprised him is just how big an impact it has made, with the Reds boss of the belief that the seismic shock it caused stems from the fact that most people in football never imagined that someone would dare put their head above the parapet and speak the truth.

Liverpool have always been the kind of club that does its talking on the pitch. But these are very different media-driven times in which advantages are sought and often gained by using television and newspapers to unsettle and unnerve opponents.

Benitez remains adamant that his verbal attack on a rival manager does not mark any departure from the much fabled Liverpool way, though. To the Spaniard, the Liverpool way is to fight, and that is exactly what he did at Friday's press conference.

The unimpressive draw with Stoke did not help his cause as it gave his critics an instant stick with which to beat him.

But Benitez knows this is a long fight and winners and losers will not be determined in the space of a single weekend.

This battle will go all the way to May and it is likely to become increasingly dirty should Liverpool and United continue to go toe to toe at the top of the Premier League.

Anyone who knows the history and rivalry of the north west's, and perhaps the world's, biggest clubs, knows full well that no quarter will be asked and none will be given, particularly not with United one league title win away from equalling Liverpool's record of 18.

This is a massive season for Benitez but it is also huge for Ferguson because he knows that if he is to fulfil his ambition of knocking Liverpool off their "f***ing perch" this is the best chance he is ever likely to get.

Title success for Liverpool would leave the United boss needing three more of his own for his life's work to be complete and having reached pensionable age two years ago he knows the sands of time are against him.

Like Dalglish, Benitez has decided to take Ferguson on. Now he must hope that like it was for his illustrious predecessor it is the precursor to championship glory in May.

[Jimjim]

Ha ha ha.

Queer.

Come on ducktail, surely an educated LP man such as yourself can come back with something a little more than what would be expected of a Reds fan?

I meant you're just odd as your comments don't affect me in the least.

[Jimjim]

Yep, seems that they just can stay away from the United thread.

Ah well, I still think Liverpool will finish in the top four.

I never comment in your <deleted> thread.

I fail to see how Torres "backed" United to win the title. It's just what athletes often say. The champions from the last year or still champions until someone dethrones them. Having watched a lot of basketball, NBA players talk like this all the time. When asked if they are the favorites they always so no because the champions from the last year have to be dethroned so they have to be considered the favorites. They always say don't underestimate a champion. It's just more semantics from sports writers, that article.

[StevieH]

Torres backs Man Utd for league

Torres believes 14 March will be the crunch date in the title race

Liverpool striker Fernando Torres believes that Manchester United are favourites to win the Premier League title after their 3-0 win over Chelsea.

Leaders Liverpool have a five point lead over third-placed United, but the Manchester side have two games in hand.

"They are the favourites and the champions right now and have shown over the years they are a very powerful team," said the 24-year-old Spaniard.

"They have two more games to play. If they catch up they will be top."

Torres, who was one of the nominees for the Fifa Player of the Year title, won by United's Cristiano Ronaldo, said his side's match at Old Trafford on 14 March could decide the destination of the title.

"We know we have Old Trafford waiting for us and then Arsenal and Chelsea at home - we have to fight until the very end," added the forward.

"The match at Old Trafford could turn out to be the decider and we hope we can be on an equal footing when we go there and try to win the match at a place that has not been advantageous for us in the past."

United are at home to Wigan on Wednesday before travelling to Bolton next Saturday.

Wins would see Sir Alex Ferguson's side gain the advantage in the title race with Liverpool not playing their next match until Monday 19 January when they host the derby against Everton.

Guess even the Liverpool players are starting to question themselves.

i'm backing man united for the league too. you're the reigning champions, you have the most experience and the best squad. it's yours to lose in fact.

[bkkjames]

Torres backs Man Utd for league

Torres believes 14 March will be the crunch date in the title race

Liverpool striker Fernando Torres believes that Manchester United are favourites to win the Premier League title after their 3-0 win over Chelsea.

Leaders Liverpool have a five point lead over third-placed United, but the Manchester side have two games in hand.

"They are the favourites and the champions right now and have shown over the years they are a very powerful team," said the 24-year-old Spaniard.

"They have two more games to play. If they catch up they will be top."

Torres, who was one of the nominees for the Fifa Player of the Year title, won by United's Cristiano Ronaldo, said his side's match at Old Trafford on 14 March could decide the destination of the title.

"We know we have Old Trafford waiting for us and then Arsenal and Chelsea at home - we have to fight until the very end," added the forward.

"The match at Old Trafford could turn out to be the decider and we hope we can be on an equal footing when we go there and try to win the match at a place that has not been advantageous for us in the past."

United are at home to Wigan on Wednesday before travelling to Bolton next Saturday.

Wins would see Sir Alex Ferguson's side gain the advantage in the title race with Liverpool not playing their next match until Monday 19 January when they host the derby against Everton.

Guess even the Liverpool players are starting to question themselves.

i'm backing man united for the league too. you're the reigning champions, you have the most experience and the best squad. it's yours to lose in fact.

nice to see everyone from Torro Torro to Stevie Wonder already laying out the framework if LP chokes it.

As for Ducktail, if my comments don't affect you then why all the intellectual comebacks?

[Jockstar]

BENITEZ BROADENS ATTACK

Now Benitez turns on Man Utd chief exec Gill

By Soccernet staff

January 12, 2009

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Rafael Benitez has continued his withering attack against Manchester United with a fresh swipe at the Old Trafford club, this time singling out United's chief executive David Gill.

GettyImages

Rafa Benitez: Calm down, calm down

Last Friday the Liverpool boss launched an extraordinary diatribe against his Old Trafford counterpart Sir Alex Ferguson attacking him for his attitude toward referees and claims about fixtures.

After Liverpool's limp 0-0 draw with Stoke Benitez followed up with comments about Gill, who also holds a senior position at the Football Association.

Benitez said: ''They were saying we are a threat. Now they know we are, they are playing mind games. But I don't think it's a mind game when you have control over everything; it's a mind game when you have the same level as the other people, then you can show you are cleverer than the others.

''But when you have control of everything and your chief executive is powerful in the FA and things like this, then that is not mind games.

''Is there a conflict of interest with David Gill at the FA? That is another fact. It is a fact that one person has a lot of power and control, and is on a lot of committees in the FA. To me that is very strange.''

Neither the Football Association nor United have commented on the Liverpool boss' latest outburst, but on Sunday Ferguson was restrained in his reaction to Benitez's initial comments.

Ferguson said: ''There was a lot of venom in what he has said. I don't understand where it has come from.

''He is obviously disturbed about something. When he reflects on it he must realise what a ridiculous thing he is saying. But all I want to do is focus on my own team. If we can do that we have a big chance.''

[StevieH]

it's a fair point. ferguson used to bleat on endlessly when arsenal's david dein was in the same job. so now it's david gill it's ok apparently.

and so far i've read of rafa's friday press conference that it was a 'rant', 'outburst', 'diatribe', 'emotional tirade'. . . .all i saw was a statement read out calmly and measuredly. no emotion, no rant. but then that wouldn't make good copy would it?

[StevieH]

good read from oli holt in the mirror:

Why Rafa Benitez should be admired for standing up to Alex Ferguson

By Oliver Holt 12/01/2009

Rafa Benitez looked pretty much the same as he leaned against a wall in a corridor after the game at the Britannia Stadium on Saturday night.

Nice suit, blue shirt, small silver Liver Bird pinned to his buttonhole, neatly trimmed goatee, smile almost always on his lips.

But he didn't sound the same. Something's happened to the guy. Not something bad, necessarily. But something's changed nonetheless.

It's like he's auditioning for a re-run of that silly John Travolta movie, Face Off, where two guys swap face transplants.

It was still Rafa's face talking in Stoke but it was Jose Mourinho's voice saying it was time Sir Alex Ferguson shut his big mouth.

That's the real reason why what Benitez first said on Friday has caused such a stir: because it was so out of character.

Most Benitez press conferences are platitudinous studies in polite obfuscation, careful exercises in not causing offence or making headlines.

Then suddenly New Rafa turned up last Friday, insulting Ferguson as surely as if he had slapped him in the face with a glove.

On Saturday, he kept up the attack. In fact, he warmed to his theme. He wanted to stop Ferguson talking about Liverpool, he said. "He has been talking too much for a long time," he said.

He called Ferguson 'Mr Ferguson', by the way. Never 'Sir Alex'. Maybe he's not just not bothered about convention. Or maybe he thinks that might show too much respect.

Anyway, it was all getting a bit Tony Soprano. Jovial on the outside but plenty of menace under the surface. We had to look down at his hands to check if he was wearing knuckledusters.

In style and tone, it was similar to Mourinho's notorious attack on Arsene Wenger three years ago when the then Chelsea boss upbraided Arsenal's manager for much the same thing.

"I think he is one of these people who is a voyeur," Mourinho said in 2005. "He likes to watch other people. There are some guys who, when they are home, have a big telescope to see what happens in other families. He speaks, speaks, speaks about Chelsea."

Okay, so Benitez's attack on Ferguson wasn't quite that personal but it wasn't far off. It certainly seemed to reveal a long-standing dislike of the man and a deep-seated suspicion of his working practices.

Benitez is far from alone in harbouring those sentiments. Indeed, he claimed on Saturday that his staff at Anfield had been inundated with messages of support since his outburst.

The crucial thing is what it all tells us about the Liverpool manager's state of mind and how he is dealing with the pressure of his leading the Premier League.

Some have chosen to interpret his new line of attack as a sign that he is cracking up like Kevin Keegan did but Benitez is a harder man than Keegan could ever be.

The opposite is more likely: Benitez has been filled with a new confidence this season. He believes Liverpool's time has come and that part of the title battle is playing Ferguson at his own game by putting pressure on the officials who referee United matches.

When Keegan lost it in front of the Sky cameras, Newcastle were falling like a stone. He said what he said from a position of weakness.

The situation with Benitez is different. Notwithstanding the draw at Stoke, the Liverpool boss is still speaking from a position of strength.

His team is standing up to United and Benitez has decided it is time he did the same.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/200...15875-21035431/

[bkkjames]

funny how its always good reading when its praise for LP and <deleted> when its not

[Jimjim]

Ducktail

You're a scholar, indeed.

We all know you have a secret hard-on for Liverpool. We they win the title, you'll jump ship like the glory hunter you are.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Jimjim

[bkkjames]

Ducktail

You're a scholar, indeed.

We all know you have a secret hard-on for Liverpool. We they win the title, you'll jump ship like the glory hunter you are.

Well Tores' goldy locks when seen from behind have made mistaken him for Maria Sharapova, so any hard on is purely by coincidence.

As for jumping ship, this won't happen as the afforementioned title winning scenario is as likely Rafa actually suffering from kidney stones and not an ulcer.

[StevieH]

funny how its always good reading when its praise for LP and <deleted> when its not

not funny. normal and understandable and part of being a football fan no?

there's plenty of objective journalists i agree with when they talk about other clubs james - you're starting to sound like a stereotypical bitter glams fan with this media nonsense.

[bkkjames]

funny how its always good reading when its praise for LP and <deleted> when its not

not funny. normal and understandable and part of being a football fan no?

there's plenty of objective journalists i agree with when they talk about other clubs james - you're starting to sound like a stereotypical bitter glams fan with this media nonsense.

we can go back and revisit your posts stevie, all <deleted> mirror, daily mail, guardian etc etc when they write something bad about your team but all good when they praise

as for bitter, seems the only ones bitter these days are LP fans, I wonder why that is?

[StevieH]

funny how its always good reading when its praise for LP and <deleted> when its not

not funny. normal and understandable and part of being a football fan no?

there's plenty of objective journalists i agree with when they talk about other clubs james - you're starting to sound like a stereotypical bitter glams fan with this media nonsense.

we can go back and revisit your posts stevie, all <deleted> mirror, daily mail, guardian etc etc when they write something bad about your team but all good when they praise

as for bitter, seems the only ones bitter these days are LP fans, I wonder why that is?

bitter? i'm positively exuberant at the minute mate.

you can revisit my posts all you like man, suffice to say that 99.9% of stuff written in the mail is total <deleted>, some of the mirror's stuff is good, most of the guardian's is. . . .if they write something critical about LFC that i agree with i'll say so. and likewise if i disagree with it, which given the british media's penchant for negativity to generate headlines is going to be more often than not.

[bkkjames]

you forgot to mention the times...

Anyone who thinks that Rafael Benitez was just getting something off his chest when he attacked Sir Alex Ferguson last Friday should have been at the Britannia Stadium the following evening.

Tony Pulis, the Stoke City manager, decided to duck out of the post-match press conference after his side had drawn 0-0 with Liverpool. That gave Benitez the perfect opportunity to keep schtum, but the temptation to pour fuel on the fire he had started 24 hours earlier proved too much.

Talking with the carefree abandon of an old soak who had spent the afternoon in his local, Benitez rambled on about how the evil Ferguson was responsible for global warming, the Respect campaign falling apart, Woolworths closing down and dodgy refereeing decisions.

OK, he may not have got round to global warming and Woolworths but he probably would have done if he hadn’t promised his wife he’d be home in time for Match of the Day.

Nobody can deny that Benitez is one of the best managers in the business, but if Liverpool can afford to pay Steven Gerrard £100,000 a week, why can’t they employ a half-decent PR man to tell the Spaniard to engage his brain before he opens his mouth? Or to keep his mouth shut?

Benitez is going back to hospital to have another operation on his kidney stones this week. While he’s in there he should ask the doctor to have a look at the bullet holes in his feet.