The Chinese A̶r̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ Are Here!

[muchogra]

A few days ago, at the request of my wife, I stopped in HK to pay respect to her older brother's graveyard who passed away at the age of 19 many years ago. I got to talk to the guards there and he told me many people wanted a site offering 3M HKD (divide that by approximately 7.5 to convert it to USD) but none is availablel. Then he told me that many Chinese are buying properties in HK with suitcases in cash. Property values there are incredibly expensive! My in-law's apartment, about 140 square meters, in a little bit affluent neighborhood, is going for almost 30M HKD. Too bad that they sold it earlier after letting it vacant for almost 15 years. They sold it for a price that the parking space costs more nowadays.

I was with some friends drinking coffee, a shop opposite, about 70 sq meters in size, was recently sold for 75M HKD. An adjacent shop, with less footage, is renting out for 150K HKD per month. Talking about bubbles! I certainly hope our CM won't be coming to that in the near future!

Edited April 27, 2013 by muchogra

[muchogra]

Certainly, we see frugal Chinese tourists. It's only natural considering the large population visiting here. But there are quite a few who spend imaginable amounts that we conceive shocking!

[OldChinaHam]

Heybruce,

The basic problem with Thailand and Chinese tourism is that Thailand is too close to China.

The Chinese themselves know that it is their brothers that can afford to go to Hawaii or the US west coast who are the ones who can buy an expensive holiday, complete with watches and jewelry and expensive meals.

The Chinese also know that it is their brothers who come to Thailand, for which they don't really even need to get on a plane, who don't have a pot to P in.

The Chinese are very status aware and they would not go on a cheap vacation to Thailand if they could possibly afford to go to Europe or the US or Hawaii or Sydney.

The westerners who come to Thailand can't get here in one or two hours on a plane. They need money for a long flight. And they have money when they arrive.

It is a known fact that the Taiwanese do look down their noses at their friends who can only afford to visit Okinawa because they know that it is these same people who occupy a much lower rung in the local Taiwan society. To fly to Okinawa is about 1/2 hour. To fly to Hawaii is 9 hours.

So, usually, it is considered fairly true that Okinawa gets the bottom of the barrel of Taiwan tourists. Maybe the same logic applies here, I can't say.

But maybe.

[OldChinaHam]

The HK real estate you mention is a house of cards.

Many think the Chinese economy is not going to last because it is built upon an unsustainable sociopolitical model.

If China does falter in a major way, CM will feel the impact.

It does look like we are in bubble territory, and not only in China, although to admit it is not easy for some.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A couple of people I know who do business with Chinese tourists divide the budget Chinese into two classes:

The young Chinese, who are generally polite, pleasant and frugal.

The older Chinese, who are impolite, unpleasant, and go way beyond frugal. The older Chinese haggle over every price, ask for or assume as many free services as possible

I have to admit I'm more inclined to interact with the younger, more female of the species..

[OldChinaHam]

The older we are, the earlier we rise, not arise.

[CHRISTIANa9]

The HK real estate you mention is a house of cards.

Many think the Chinese economy is not going to last because it is built upon an unsustainable sociopolitical model.

If China does falter in a major way, CM will feel the impact.

It does look like we are in bubble territory, and not only in China, although to admit it is not easy for some.

Don't think china is going down the drain anytime soon, although a bit of hardship will certain tame their arrogance.

[cloudhopper]

best thing you can ever do for yourself for those too lazy to learn thai after all these years is to pick up Mandarin.

Why is that? Does learning to read and prounounce Mandarin require less effort than Thai?

[doggie888888]

Young Chinese toursits are here because they watch the movie 'Lost in Thailand' or something like that. Otherwise they would've headed to Japan

Yep. Talked to a Thai ajarn friend at the university and that is his take on it also. He also said that they steal everything as souvenirs even toothpicks and some places are charging for 'missing' items.

Stealing toothpicks? OMG, what next?

In Hong Kong the Japanese package tourists used to steal the pictures off the hotel room walls, the TV sets, and anything smaller.

I welcome the Chinese, always well-behaved( apart from this unfortunate yen for toothpicks), and a reminder of my 19 happy years with a Chinese partner.

I don't mind the Chinese tourists so much (when I have had interactions with them), but one of my Thai friends who owns/operates a guesthouse (at the very low end of the price scale) has nothing nice to say at all about the Chinese tourists she encounters on a daily basis... invariably if I ask how her day has been I will get a tale of a rude/ignorant/troublesome Chinese tourist. And its not just a case of them now making up more of her business, as when her place is full of westerners she definitely has far fewer problems.

My goal isnt to agitate by going against the general positive tone of the thread, but the influx of Chinese tourists/travelers is definitely not all roses like some seem to think.

to all those with real or imaginary "friends" who think Chinese customers are troublesome, problematic, cheap etc etc etc. please tell us the name of these businesses for the public record. I will gladly arrange it to be translated and posted on weibo our some other Chinese site so the Chinese customers know which businesses to avoid thus saving a lot of hassles for these businesses. It's a win win situation isn't it ?

[OldChinaHam]

LoudHopper,

Learning to pronounce the sounds of Thai may be more difficult than mastering Mandarin pronunciation, but not more difficult than Hakka. To learn to read a random complex Mandarin newspaper article discussing issues of the Chiang Mai, Thailand real estate bubble will require that the reader recognize upwards of 3000 Chinese characters. The phonetic Thai writing system is not particularly easy even though it uses only about 70 characters.

So this means that it is probably easier for an ExPat to buy a house than it is to be fluent enough to discuss real estate detail and read real estate contracts in either Mandarin or Thai, even though coming up with the cash is also not so easy when one is eyeing prestige property to be put in the wife's name, no matter what her ethnicity.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Young Chinese toursits are here because they watch the movie 'Lost in Thailand' or something like that. Otherwise they would've headed to Japan

Yep. Talked to a Thai ajarn friend at the university and that is his take on it also. He also said that they steal everything as souvenirs even toothpicks and some places are charging for 'missing' items.

Stealing toothpicks? OMG, what next?

In Hong Kong the Japanese package tourists used to steal the pictures off the hotel room walls, the TV sets, and anything smaller.

I welcome the Chinese, always well-behaved( apart from this unfortunate yen for toothpicks), and a reminder of my 19 happy years with a Chinese partner.

I don't mind the Chinese tourists so much (when I have had interactions with them), but one of my Thai friends who owns/operates a guesthouse (at the very low end of the price scale) has nothing nice to say at all about the Chinese tourists she encounters on a daily basis... invariably if I ask how her day has been I will get a tale of a rude/ignorant/troublesome Chinese tourist. And its not just a case of them now making up more of her business, as when her place is full of westerners she definitely has far fewer problems.

My goal isnt to agitate by going against the general positive tone of the thread, but the influx of Chinese tourists/travelers is definitely not all roses like some seem to think.

to all those with real or imaginary "friends" who think Chinese customers are troublesome, problematic, cheap etc etc etc. please tell us the name of these businesses for the public record. I will gladly arrange it to be translated and posted on weibo our some other Chinese site so the Chinese customers know which businesses to avoid thus saving a lot of hassles for these businesses. It's a win win situation isn't it ?

what a drama queen.

I think if they want to cut back on certain tourists they can just say they are full or make case by case decisions

Most businesses will still probably prefer low quality customers to no customers.

[OldChinaHam]

DoggieBah, Bah,...Bah

Even in Kowloon and Hong Kong, no Hong Kongers, the hotel managers included, really liked the guys from the mainland, since beginning when China opened up and the farmers began flowing in. They don't even like them coming in today to give birth. They just tolerated them and put up with the extra work and the extra maintenance. I prefer to be with the mainland Chinese who are at universities, real fine fellows in every way. These days, and during the past two decades, you really must cut the Chinese tourist some slack while he learns the rules of the road. Most of these guys are fresh off the farms, and this is not a bad thing if we enjoy eating food.

Sorry about the Bah Bahing, I don't read much Mandarin around here, these days. Good moniker, you should have all the luck.

[kennedy]

After reading some of the comments it seems that the Chinese tourists will make life easier for the cheap charlie crowd. I remember years ago in Bkk whenever I left a generous tip I would hear, "Don't ruin it for rest of us!"

[OldChinaHam]

Yes,

But you are a Kennedy.

[nikster]

The good thing about the Chinese Tourists is that they make the farangs look really good.

The Chinese are the Isrealis of the east, at least in terms of tourist behavior.

Very good friend of ours is running a guest house and the problems with the Chinese - which they do not welcome anymore - are a few:

- They are rude, same as Israelis.

As a foreigner who's been to a few places, I personally don't mind this - every culture has different standards for what is considered appropriate behavior. Thailand of course is on the side of being polite to a fault. China - not so much - they're much ruder than westerners in their normal day to day interaction. It starts with the tone of voice and how they talk. Maybe they also get cut less slack that us because looking Asian they look like they should know better?! I don't know.

- They're so cheap, they've redefined what it means to be cheap. My friend told me they're buying Mama noodle at 7/11 and then using the free hot water at the guest house for all their meals. They use LOTS of hot water. They never buy anything at the guest house, not even a 40 baht beer. They're way cheaper than the backpackers of old. Backpackers will look for the 200 baht a night place, but they also like to drink beers and enjoy themselves a little.

Those that I've met seemed pretty friendly though; yet also as incapable as they're unafraid of riding vehicles of any kind... sitting at the Cafe, I saw a chinese tourist start up his scoopy which he had parked on the sidewalk. Hit the gas full throttle, scoopy took off, he and his pillion fell off, and the scoopy hit a parked car. The Thai owner freaked out, maybe a bit too much, but I guess it was a brand new car... but, it has to be said, the Chinese just sat around smiling waiting for the police, and I am sure he paid for it.

Another time I was on the moat road on my bike and spotted a chinese lady on a bicycle on the sidewalk. I slowed down thinking "she's a bit wobbly but she wouldn't possibly...." and just the she fell over and both her and the bicycle landed splat in the middle of the road in front of me!

Edited April 28, 2013 by nikster

[hellodolly]

Young Chinese toursits are here because they watch the movie 'Lost in Thailand' or something like that. Otherwise they would've headed to Japan

Yep. Talked to a Thai ajarn friend at the university and that is his take on it also. He also said that they steal everything as souvenirs even toothpicks and some places are charging for 'missing' items.

Stealing toothpicks? OMG, what next?

In Hong Kong the Japanese package tourists used to steal the pictures off the hotel room walls, the TV sets, and anything smaller.

I welcome the Chinese, always well-behaved( apart from this unfortunate yen for toothpicks), and a reminder of my 19 happy years with a Chinese partner.

I don't mind the Chinese tourists so much (when I have had interactions with them), but one of my Thai friends who owns/operates a guesthouse (at the very low end of the price scale) has nothing nice to say at all about the Chinese tourists she encounters on a daily basis... invariably if I ask how her day has been I will get a tale of a rude/ignorant/troublesome Chinese tourist. And its not just a case of them now making up more of her business, as when her place is full of westerners she definitely has far fewer problems.

My goal isnt to agitate by going against the general positive tone of the thread, but the influx of Chinese tourists/travelers is definitely not all roses like some seem to think.

to all those with real or imaginary "friends" who think Chinese customers are troublesome, problematic, cheap etc etc etc. please tell us the name of these businesses for the public record. I will gladly arrange it to be translated and posted on weibo our some other Chinese site so the Chinese customers know which businesses to avoid thus saving a lot of hassles for these businesses. It's a win win situation isn't it ?

Not for the new business they act out in.

[OldChinaHam]

"Another time I was on the moat road on my bike and spotted a chinese lady on a bicycle on the sidewalk. I slowed down thinking "she's a bit wobbly but she wouldn't possibly...." and just the she fell over and both her and the bicycle landed splat in the middle of the road in front of me!"

This seems a bit odd.

Anyone who has been to China during the past 60 years knows that the Chinese are first class bike riders.

I used to marvel at all the bike riders in China. Lines of them stretched to the horizon in every direction.

They were also tireless bike riders covering sometimes a 1000 kilometers in a week, often more.

Maybe this lady was some overseas Chinese from Manhattan?

[SDH]

Young Chinese toursits are here because they watch the movie 'Lost in Thailand' or something like that. Otherwise they would've headed to Japan

Yep. Talked to a Thai ajarn friend at the university and that is his take on it also. He also said that they steal everything as souvenirs even toothpicks and some places are charging for 'missing' items.

Stealing toothpicks? OMG, what next?

In Hong Kong the Japanese package tourists used to steal the pictures off the hotel room walls, the TV sets, and anything smaller.

I welcome the Chinese, always well-behaved( apart from this unfortunate yen for toothpicks), and a reminder of my 19 happy years with a Chinese partner.

I don't mind the Chinese tourists so much (when I have had interactions with them), but one of my Thai friends who owns/operates a guesthouse (at the very low end of the price scale) has nothing nice to say at all about the Chinese tourists she encounters on a daily basis... invariably if I ask how her day has been I will get a tale of a rude/ignorant/troublesome Chinese tourist. And its not just a case of them now making up more of her business, as when her place is full of westerners she definitely has far fewer problems.

My goal isnt to agitate by going against the general positive tone of the thread, but the influx of Chinese tourists/travelers is definitely not all roses like some seem to think.

to all those with real or imaginary "friends" who think Chinese customers are troublesome, problematic, cheap etc etc etc. please tell us the name of these businesses for the public record. I will gladly arrange it to be translated and posted on weibo our some other Chinese site so the Chinese customers know which businesses to avoid thus saving a lot of hassles for these businesses. It's a win win situation isn't it ?

Yes I think that's the answer, let them post the list, then when my Chinese friends come they can avoid the places that consider them to be filthy and stingy!

[puck2]

@Thailand
Since Thai is a universal language, the Chinese visitors should be ashamed not talking the Thai language?
I guess you have never been to China.

At the end of the 2.nd millennium I met a lot of people in remote province areas of Yunnan (Zhongdian, Ninglang, Lugu Hu, Xishuangbanna), Guangxi (Behai, Liuzhou), Sichuan (Lugu Hu, Xichang, Emei Shan, Zigong, Cishui), having been able to have a conversation in English. They are not too "bothered to learn any other language "as you pretend. I could talk about a lot of my personal experiences.

Go to China, but remember your own words

If they have not bothered to learn Thai the same people are highly unlikely to even consider learning any other language at all as they will have felt there was no need.

Nowadays many Chinese travel to a great number of countries. The middle class and the rich, of course, have now the freedom and the money to do it. Should they completely learn Malay, Tagalog, Japanese, French, Englisch, Italien, Spanish, German, Arabic languages only for their holidays?

Edited April 28, 2013 by puck2

[BlackArtemis]

@Thailand

Since Thai is a universal language, the Chinese visitors should be ashamed not talking the Thai language?

I guess you have never been to China.

At the end of the 2.nd millennium I met a lot of people in remote province areas of Yunnan (Zhongdian, Ninglang, Lugu Hu, Xishuangbanna), Guangxi (Behai, Liuzhou), Sichuan (Lugu Hu, Xichang, Emei Shan, Zigong, Cishui), having been able to have a conversation in English. They are not too "bothered to learn any other language "as you pretend. I could talk about a lot of my personal experiences.

Go to China, but remember your own words

If they have not bothered to learn Thai the same people are highly unlikely to even consider learning any other language at all as they will have felt there was no need.

Nowadays many Chinese travel to a great number of countries. The middle class and the rich, of course, have now the freedom and the money to do it. Should they completely learn Malay, Tagalog, Japanese, French, Englisch, Italien, Spanish, German, Arabic languages only for their holidays?

I think this was in response to the post about the Farang here who have not bothered to learn Thai should learn Mandarin. Thus the :If they live in this country and can't be bothered to learn the language, why would they ever learn a different one" response.

To others: Stop the butt hurt about people complaining about stereotypes. Stereotypes exist because a large group of people exhibit said traits. We all know Israelis, Russians, Brits, Aussies, Chinese, Americans, etc who are fantastic people in every way, but that doesn't mean a sizable portion don't act a certain way. It's no fun cleaning up somebody else's mess, especially if you have to pay for it. People here complaining are even stating out right it's not ever Chinese tourist, but if this many business owners in a small area are making the same observation, something is true about the statements

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

to all those with real or imaginary "friends" who think Chinese customers are troublesome, problematic, cheap etc etc etc. please tell us the name of these businesses for the public record. I will gladly arrange it to be translated and posted on weibo our some other Chinese site so the Chinese customers know which businesses to avoid thus saving a lot of hassles for these businesses. It's a win win situation isn't it ?

Yes I think that's the answer, let them post the list, then when my Chinese friends come they can avoid the places that consider them to be filthy and stingy!

Would you like them to have to wear a badge or get a permanent tattoo for expressing their opinion as well?

This isn't China and it's world class level of speech suppression.

Edited April 28, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[OldChinaHam]

It seems to me that CM and other parts of Thailand will inevitably be increasingly exposed to greater numbers of Chinese tourists, as well as business people and developers during the next decade.

This won't be a problem for me because I like the Chinese culture on many levels, and I very much appreciate the Chinese respect for education and family which is inherent in their culture. Through educating ourselves about the Chinese and their culture, we will be better prepared to profit from their arrival on the Thailand scene, although they have never really been gone very long in historical terms. It was probably only the Communist Party in China which delayed the new arrival of business people and tourists from China to the significant extent that it has been delayed, since beginning in the 50's or 60's.

There is no harm done when laughing =with= the Chinese about some of their oddities, as long as these observations do not turn sour and overly derogatory. The increased influx of Chinese to Thailand will have a very positive impact on life in Thailand, I know, if all work together to pursue the goals that all obviously wish to achieve.

By the way, if there are any Chinese out there who wish to be friends with me, feel free to bring your toothpicks. I don't mind.

And also, when coming to CM, remember not to forget:.........JUST THROW MONEY!

Best regards,

O.C. Ham

PS: I am, of course, =serious= about wanting to meet some Chinese friends around here. So please don't be bashful.

Not to mention, what will happen to my Mandarin if I don't keep up with it? Will it deteriorate like my English did all those years I was in China? No doubt.

[Thailand]

@Thailand

Since Thai is a universal language, the Chinese visitors should be ashamed not talking the Thai language?

I guess you have never been to China.

At the end of the 2.nd millennium I met a lot of people in remote province areas of Yunnan (Zhongdian, Ninglang, Lugu Hu, Xishuangbanna), Guangxi (Behai, Liuzhou), Sichuan (Lugu Hu, Xichang, Emei Shan, Zigong, Cishui), having been able to have a conversation in English. They are not too "bothered to learn any other language "as you pretend. I could talk about a lot of my personal experiences.

Go to China, but remember your own words

If they have not bothered to learn Thai the same people are highly unlikely to even consider learning any other language at all as they will have felt there was no need.

Nowadays many Chinese travel to a great number of countries. The middle class and the rich, of course, have now the freedom and the money to do it. Should they completely learn Malay, Tagalog, Japanese, French, Englisch, Italien, Spanish, German, Arabic languages only for their holidays?

You completely misread my post.The reference originally from LC and my reply was related to expats in Thailand who have lived here and not learned Thai and would be even less likely to learn another language.

I personally have been to mainland China at least 20 times apart from having lived in HK for more than 10 years. I speak quite passable Thai and have a working knowledge of Cantonese and fairly good English.

Oh,and the wife of quite some years is Chinese,speaks English,Thai,Mandarin,Cantonese.

[Ace of Pop]

I get ignored whatever language i use. At least the Chinese that i have met as a Tourist there speak good English. Here the Tourist Offices and Hotel receptions are very poor generally. Thais are hopeless at another language .

[doggie888888]

to all those with real or imaginary "friends" who think Chinese customers are troublesome, problematic, cheap etc etc etc. please tell us the name of these businesses for the public record. I will gladly arrange it to be translated and posted on weibo our some other Chinese site so the Chinese customers know which businesses to avoid thus saving a lot of hassles for these businesses. It's a win win situation isn't it ?

Yes I think that's the answer, let them post the list, then when my Chinese friends come they can avoid the places that consider them to be filthy and stingy!

Would you like them to have to wear a badge or get a permanent tattoo for expressing their opinion as well?

This isn't China and it's world class level of speech suppression.

It's totally free and acceptable for anyone to express unadulterated contempt for their customer. Conversely, it is equally fair to have customers choose and vote with their Yuans on a fully informed basis. By all means wear a badge if you want to express your low opinion of some customers...just be ready for the consequences. I don't like businesses and people who don't put their money where their mouths are.

[cmsally]

I would agree with the observation about the younger generation being way more socially savvy in general.

I've found all the Chinese I've come across generally polite and fun to talk to. Quite a few times visiting friends of mine have climbed into a songtaew to find they are the only non Chinese on there. Every time the Chinese have been polite and sociable.

Another observation is that just about every foreign university is stuffed full of Chinese. They are paying big money in big numbers to get a foreign education. The Chinese demographic in the demographic (ie the types of Chinese people) is going to change very rapidly.

[OldChinaHam]

You are very right about the universities and the Chinese, that they will pay any amount to educate their children, and their children who are applying for university entrance are almost over qualified, especially if they come from cities such as ShangHai. Just go to Japan these days and most of the schools, the language centers in particular, are filled with Chinese students, with the surrounding restaurants reflecting the culinary tastes of the Chinese students.

[OldChinaHam]

There is one thing I find annoying about Chinese hotel guests of yesteryear, is the fact that they tend to leave their hotel doors open while they and their friends are inside having a gay old time. Fine, there is nothing wrong with this IF my room is not directly opposite theirs while they are drinking and smoking up a storm, or just gabbing away with the rest of the family. But hotel rooms are not supposed to be used as the village commons area where all congregate to discuss the weather.

Of course, if they invite you in to down 6 large bottles of beer in an hour, then this quickly makes up for any prior noise or inconvenience.

GAN BEI!

[SDH]

to all those with real or imaginary "friends" who think Chinese customers are troublesome, problematic, cheap etc etc etc. please tell us the name of these businesses for the public record. I will gladly arrange it to be translated and posted on weibo our some other Chinese site so the Chinese customers know which businesses to avoid thus saving a lot of hassles for these businesses. It's a win win situation isn't it ?

Yes I think that's the answer, let them post the list, then when my Chinese friends come they can avoid the places that consider them to be filthy and stingy!

Would you like them to have to wear a badge or get a permanent tattoo for expressing their opinion as well?

This isn't China and it's world class level of speech suppression.

It's totally free and acceptable for anyone to express unadulterated contempt for their customer. Conversely, it is equally fair to have customers choose and vote with their Yuans on a fully informed basis. By all means wear a badge if you want to express your low opinion of some customers...just be ready for the consequences. I don't like businesses and people who don't put their money where their mouths are.

Maybe I missed it, but I'm awaiting the list of Anti-Chinese establishments, surely with all the hate mongering going on here there must be one of the mongers willing to post the list (or they can be the first on it)....

[eden8]

 

By the way, if there are any Chinese out there who wish to be friends with me, feel free to bring your toothpicks. I don't mind.

 

are you a chinese?