Two Dead In Phuket-Bangkok Bus Crash

[Nisa]

there is a responsibility on the passengers too. i have sat on many buses going far too fast and the passengers sit there like lemmings as if they have no power to do anything. when actually all the passengers can go to the driver and demand he stop, and take the keys if necessary.

i was on a visa run where the van driver was dicing with death every ten minutes. everyone else in the van was terrified but said nothing. i asked if the driver could stop as I felt sick. i went round to the driver's side, opened the door, confiscated the keys and rang the visa run company. there was an international incident on the side of the road for ten minutes but the visa run company spoke to their employee and although he was furious he drove at a steady 100 kms an hour taking no risks until i got out. apparently he then sped up and everyone sat terrified in the bus for another half hour. people have to take a stand. it's uncomfortable and maybe upsets people but these crashes are too frequent. you can't do much about another car coming head on agreed - but if the bus was going slower it would have more room for manoevre.

I agree to an extent, I would not take the keys away but I would tell the driver to slow down (and have in the past). Calling the company and complaining can be effective some times and other times it falls on deaf ears. People do need to speak up more on these issues but sadly not many do. I simply dont ride in vans anymore, i dont see myself getting on a bus anytime soon either. trains and planes are safer, and safety is worth a few extra baht.

I agree and will never get into a bus again, next week i am doing a visa run to Malaysia..................By train.

Better not do any research on train travel in Thailand before your trip.

[Cardiff1963]

The only way this will stop is to prosecute and ban bad drivers, this will never happen while police live on bribes. any one remember an initiative put in place a couple of years ago to half road deaths in 5 years, how's that going?

[kannot]

I can tell him the cause easily, STUPIDITY

[kannot]

Many of the busses (the regulated ones from the bus stations) are now driving much slower than in past years. The 999 busses have a diigital display of the drivers' speed beside the clock in the passenger cabin. I rarely see the display rise above 90KM?HR. I cannot speak for the un-regulated tourist busses. But my experience on 999 is that it is a slower, safer ride than a decade ago.

Of course, this is Thailand, and you have to worry about all the other idiots on the road.

The problem then of course is they sit in the outside lane from the start to the end of their journey, even when the inside lane is clear for several kilometres.

Edited April 29, 2013 by kannot

[Nisa]

Many of the busses (the regulated ones from the bus stations) are now driving much slower than in past years. The 999 busses have a diigital display of the drivers' speed beside the clock in the passenger cabin. I rarely see the display rise above 90KM?HR. I cannot speak for the un-regulated tourist busses. But my experience on 999 is that it is a slower, safer ride than a decade ago.

Of course, this is Thailand, and you have to worry about all the other idiots on the road.

The problem then of course is they sit in the outside lane from the start to the end of their journey, even when the inside lane is clear for several kilometres.

Isn't that where the buses should be .... leaving the inside lanes for faster moving and passing vehicles? The more you change lanes, especially big vehicles that cannot speed up, stop or maneuver as fast, the higher the chances of wrecks.

Based on the above it sounds like they are making real progress with the official buses..

Edited April 29, 2013 by Nisa

[PoodMaiDai]

I find it terrifying how cars, trucks, vans, and buses here just crumple into nothing like a coke can when they have an accident. Witnessed a lot of nasty accidents in my home country and never seen so many vehicles crumple so easily. Do car makers not have any safety features / reinforcements in cars and no crumple zones? I even see these crumpled messes on new cars from name brand makers. The bus makers just make them without a plan and no safety at all, this much I know, but cars and trucks should not rip apart like they do.

Some cars are designed to crumple, the design is to lessen the impact during a collision and to keep the driver safe from a less desirable crumple (as in a rod breaks off and stabs you in the chest). This is generally the case for cars in the west as well.

I'm not talking about actual crumple zones. I'm talking about the lack of crumple zones in Thai cars where the entire car turns into a tin can, usually killing everyone inside. The cars here generally don't rip apart and crumple like they do in teh west. I can only guess it is do to zero safety concerns here so they don't build the crumple zones into the cars. Or the name brand cars everyone is paying 30% for isn't actually from that company and it is a copy like everything else here.

[PoodMaiDai]

Do car makers not have any safety features / reinforcements in cars and no crumple zones?

Many of the buses here are 'homemade'. They are NOT manufactured to any sort of engineering or safety standard.

These is a very interesting documentary (British, I think) that was made fairly recently on this. Sorry, I don't have a link.

Yes, that is the one I saw on the bus industry. Terrifying. Some of the seats are not bolted down, and this is acceptable. They just build them from scratch, no plan or anything. So for a bus, it is no wonder they shred apart. But the cars and trucks do the same thing, which also has me wondering how many of them are the real brands or those brands just don't add the safety features they do elsewhere.

[ratcatcher]

Many of the busses (the regulated ones from the bus stations) are now driving much slower than in past years. The 999 busses have a diigital display of the drivers' speed beside the clock in the passenger cabin. I rarely see the display rise above 90KM?HR. I cannot speak for the un-regulated tourist busses. But my experience on 999 is that it is a slower, safer ride than a decade ago.

Of course, this is Thailand, and you have to worry about all the other idiots on the road.

The problem then of course is they sit in the outside lane from the start to the end of their journey, even when the inside lane is clear for several kilometres.

Isn't that where the buses should be .... leaving the inside lanes for faster moving and passing vehicles? The more you change lanes, especially big vehicles that cannot speed up, stop or maneuver as fast, the higher the chances of wrecks.

Based on the above it sounds like they are making real progress with the official buses..

Surely 'kannot' is referring to the right hand lane on Thai highways where we drive on the left? On most six lane highways traffic tends to stay in the middle lane leaving the left hand lane (often in a bumpy condition) to trucks.

Highway buses and of course Fortuner & fast car drivers who never seem to leave the 'fast' or right hand lane which is usually designated for overtaking. But then I've been told often that in Thailand you can overtake in any lane, even the hard shoulder often leaving the overtaker to the undertaker.

[Nisa]

I find it terrifying how cars, trucks, vans, and buses here just crumple into nothing like a coke can when they have an accident. Witnessed a lot of nasty accidents in my home country and never seen so many vehicles crumple so easily. Do car makers not have any safety features / reinforcements in cars and no crumple zones? I even see these crumpled messes on new cars from name brand makers. The bus makers just make them without a plan and no safety at all, this much I know, but cars and trucks should not rip apart like they do.

Some cars are designed to crumple, the design is to lessen the impact during a collision and to keep the driver safe from a less desirable crumple (as in a rod breaks off and stabs you in the chest). This is generally the case for cars in the west as well.

I'm not talking about actual crumple zones. I'm talking about the lack of crumple zones in Thai cars where the entire car turns into a tin can, usually killing everyone inside. The cars here generally don't rip apart and crumple like they do in teh west. I can only guess it is do to zero safety concerns here so they don't build the crumple zones into the cars. Or the name brand cars everyone is paying 30% for isn't actually from that company and it is a copy like everything else here.

You aren't being for real are you?

Edited April 29, 2013 by Nisa

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[XINLOI]

I find it terrifying how cars, trucks, vans, and buses here just crumple into nothing like a coke can when they have an accident. Witnessed a lot of nasty accidents in my home country and never seen so many vehicles crumple so easily. Do car makers not have any safety features / reinforcements in cars and no crumple zones? I even see these crumpled messes on new cars from name brand makers. The bus makers just make them without a plan and no safety at all, this much I know, but cars and trucks should not rip apart like they do.

The local vehcles are built just as cheap as they can make them. There are no safety features built in, no means to dissipate the kenetic energy. I have a 2012 truck of local manufacture. If you lean on the bodywork to hard it dents the area touched and there is nothing between myself and the front bumper but the engine. A head on collision will result in the engine being in the drivers seat and me pushed into the rear one. I installed a bumper guard to keep the dogs out of the radiator but cheap steel and plastic is all the rage in auto construction here.

[wackysleet]

I find it terrifying how cars, trucks, vans, and buses here just crumple into nothing like a coke can when they have an accident. Witnessed a lot of nasty accidents in my home country and never seen so many vehicles crumple so easily. Do car makers not have any safety features / reinforcements in cars and no crumple zones? I even see these crumpled messes on new cars from name brand makers. The bus makers just make them without a plan and no safety at all, this much I know, but cars and trucks should not rip apart like they do.

The local vehcles are built just as cheap as they can make them. There are no safety features built in, no means to dissipate the kenetic energy. I have a 2012 truck of local manufacture. If you lean on the bodywork to hard it dents the area touched and there is nothing between myself and the front bumper but the engine. A head on collision will result in the engine being in the drivers seat and me pushed into the rear one. I installed a bumper guard to keep the dogs out of the radiator but cheap steel and plastic is all the rage in auto construction here.

I purchased a new Yamaha Nuovo awhile back from the main dealer along with a crash helmet of what I believed to be of good quality seeing as it was a Yamaha badged helmet and not the usual brain scooping item but on getting home I noticed a small sticker stating "This helmet is for Thailand domestic usage only. Not applicable to other countries.

Makes me wonder why Yamaha apparently make an inferior standard helmet for Thailand and possibly other 3rd world countries, perhaps Thailand does not have a decent standard for these things like the west and can therefore get away with possibly a substandard item for cheapness.

Possibly some deviation in cars, lorries and buses safety features may exist from what we have come to expect. Just a thought.

[Nisa]

I find it terrifying how cars, trucks, vans, and buses here just crumple into nothing like a coke can when they have an accident. Witnessed a lot of nasty accidents in my home country and never seen so many vehicles crumple so easily. Do car makers not have any safety features / reinforcements in cars and no crumple zones? I even see these crumpled messes on new cars from name brand makers. The bus makers just make them without a plan and no safety at all, this much I know, but cars and trucks should not rip apart like they do.

The local vehcles are built just as cheap as they can make them. There are no safety features built in, no means to dissipate the kenetic energy. I have a 2012 truck of local manufacture. If you lean on the bodywork to hard it dents the area touched and there is nothing between myself and the front bumper but the engine. A head on collision will result in the engine being in the drivers seat and me pushed into the rear one. I installed a bumper guard to keep the dogs out of the radiator but cheap steel and plastic is all the rage in auto construction here.

I purchased a new Yamaha Nuovo awhile back from the main dealer along with a crash helmet of what I believed to be of good quality seeing as it was a Yamaha badged helmet and not the usual brain scooping item but on getting home I noticed a small sticker stating "This helmet is for Thailand domestic usage only. Not applicable to other countries.

Makes me wonder why Yamaha apparently make an inferior standard helmet for Thailand and possibly other 3rd world countries, perhaps Thailand does not have a decent standard for these things like the west and can therefore get away with possibly a substandard item for cheapness.

Possibly some deviation in cars, lorries and buses safety features may exist from what we have come to expect. Just a thought.

All in your head guys. While they may or not be missing safety features that may not be required in Thailand is one thing but I am talking about things such as safety belts, airbags, mirrors and this type of items that have a dollar value and are easy and cheaper to not install. However, the metal is the same metal and they don't spend millions if not billions to de-crumple zone a body or retool in order to achieve this. Last I read Thailand is the 7th largest exporter of cars in the world. Thailand also doesn't manufacture a car but just put together vehicles for other countries manufactures using the material that car company uses. It is beyond comprehension to believe a major manufacturer is going ruin its name by not providing uniform quality of the basic automobile including quality metal and major safety features (such as crumple zones) the advertise in all their vehicles.

Vehicles have gotten lighter but they are safer all over the world and is a larger part of the reason why deaths road generally go down over the years in industrialized and emerging nations, including Thailand.

The roads are also not a major blame in Thailand. The majority of deaths come from the number of motorbike riders year round and their lack of using helmets as well as often not just being a single driver on the bike but also 1 or 2 passengers without helmets. The rest (as well as added to bike accidents) can be summed up by poor driving which is related to a number of things including education, training and experience. As for buses it has to do with the same things but also the added problem of inadequate maintenance with buses where it often plays more of a factor than with cars because of their size and weight but am sure many accidents occur with cars too because of things like bald tires in the rain.

Thailand is still behind in many areas than many other countries, especially more modern ones, when it comes to road safety but like these other countries Thailand has seen their peek in deaths and now the numbers have been trending down for many years despite their being more vehicles on the road. They got a long way to go but they are moving in the right direction even if the pace isn't fast enough and as long as most of the vehicles on the road throughout the year are motorbikes you should expect a higher death rate than countries where cars dominate the roads over motorbikes.

[wackysleet]

I find it terrifying how cars, trucks, vans, and buses here just crumple into nothing like a coke can when they have an accident. Witnessed a lot of nasty accidents in my home country and never seen so many vehicles crumple so easily. Do car makers not have any safety features / reinforcements in cars and no crumple zones? I even see these crumpled messes on new cars from name brand makers. The bus makers just make them without a plan and no safety at all, this much I know, but cars and trucks should not rip apart like they do.

The local vehcles are built just as cheap as they can make them. There are no safety features built in, no means to dissipate the kenetic energy. I have a 2012 truck of local manufacture. If you lean on the bodywork to hard it dents the area touched and there is nothing between myself and the front bumper but the engine. A head on collision will result in the engine being in the drivers seat and me pushed into the rear one. I installed a bumper guard to keep the dogs out of the radiator but cheap steel and plastic is all the rage in auto construction here.

I purchased a new Yamaha Nuovo awhile back from the main dealer along with a crash helmet of what I believed to be of good quality seeing as it was a Yamaha badged helmet and not the usual brain scooping item but on getting home I noticed a small sticker stating "This helmet is for Thailand domestic usage only. Not applicable to other countries.

Makes me wonder why Yamaha apparently make an inferior standard helmet for Thailand and possibly other 3rd world countries, perhaps Thailand does not have a decent standard for these things like the west and can therefore get away with possibly a substandard item for cheapness.

Possibly some deviation in cars, lorries and buses safety features may exist from what we have come to expect. Just a thought.

All in your head guys. While they may or not be missing safety features that may not be required in Thailand is one thing but I am talking about things such as safety belts, airbags, mirrors and this type of items that have a dollar value and are easy and cheaper to not install. However, the metal is the same metal and they don't spend millions if not billions to de-crumple zone a body or retool in order to achieve this. Last I read Thailand is the 7th largest exporter of cars in the world. Thailand also doesn't manufacture a car but just put together vehicles for other countries manufactures using the material that car company uses. It is beyond comprehension to believe a major manufacturer is going ruin its name by not providing uniform quality of the basic automobile including quality metal and major safety features (such as crumple zones) the advertise in all their vehicles.

Vehicles have gotten lighter but they are safer all over the world and is a larger part of the reason why deaths road generally go down over the years in industrialized and emerging nations, including Thailand.

The roads are also not a major blame in Thailand. The majority of deaths come from the number of motorbike riders year round and their lack of using helmets as well as often not just being a single driver on the bike but also 1 or 2 passengers without helmets. The rest (as well as added to bike accidents) can be summed up by poor driving which is related to a number of things including education, training and experience. As for buses it has to do with the same things but also the added problem of inadequate maintenance with buses where it often plays more of a factor than with cars because of their size and weight but am sure many accidents occur with cars too because of things like bald tires in the rain.

Thailand is still behind in many areas than many other countries, especially more modern ones, when it comes to road safety but like these other countries Thailand has seen their peek in deaths and now the numbers have been trending down for many years despite their being more vehicles on the road. They got a long way to go but they are moving in the right direction even if the pace isn't fast enough and as long as most of the vehicles on the road throughout the year are motorbikes you should expect a higher death rate than countries where cars dominate the roads over motorbikes.

So Nisa while agreeing with a lot of what you say about the quality of the vehicles built here but not all. "I once bought a Mercedes presumerably assembled here that was crap compared to a German one" ie the video of the Thai built buses etc which you did not comment on and the blatent lie told by the official as against what the bus maker told the TV reporter you seem overly anxious to defend Thailand even though you state that missing safety features may not be required but then go on to say Thailand is getting a grip on the road deaths but figures you have quoted in previous posts on this topic do not correlate with the true figures, your figures are in your mind and as for dismissing the safety features you stated while not increasing the number of accidents most certainly do add to the death toll.

You also say that roads are not a major blame for deaths/accidents, possibly not in relation to cars,trucks and lorries but I would be prepared to bet that they contribute to a substantial number of motorbike accidents along with the bloody street roaming soi dogs.

Thailand like a lot of 3rd world countries around the world are guilty of building/manufacturing substandard articles and fakes because they deem that the public do not need standards of safety accepted in the west and greed prevails over most things here. Please note I said 3rd world countries and not 3rd class people.

At the end of the day any government is ultimately responsible for the safety of it's citizens irrespective of what you say or think so until they actually start to ensure that driving standards/maintenance of vehicles, education of their people in all aspects, the upholding of the law then Thailand does have a case to answer and your defending the indefensible.

Edited April 30, 2013 by wackysleet