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Advise Please.

I came to Thailand 4 weeks ago and I have been offered a job as a teacher of English - which I am qualified to do.

The school wants me to start immediately without a work permit until they can arrange one - they say within the month.

The British Embassy say that I could be arrested and deported and should wait for a work permit..

Comments and advice please

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You are supposed to have a work permit first and non immigrant B visa entry is required for that but believe many teachers do start early without incident. Suggest you post in the teacher forum for up to date information specific to your situation as teachers are handled a bit differently than other employment.

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For a school it normally only takes 1 to 3 days to get a WP. Have the school at least apply for a WP before you actually start working, then you know if they really intend to get the WP for you ( and the correct visa). Some schools have simply no intention doing that, while it can indeed be reason for arrest, punishment and deportation.

You also don't state what kind of school, If a language school, these do get raided sometime. A government school will take longer to get the WP, as you first need to get the correct visa and then the teaching license or waiver of that from the teaching council in BKK.

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Whatever kind of school it is you need to have the right kind of visa, either a NON-Imm B visa or an O-A visa based on marriage to a Thai. If you are on a tourist or transit visa, it would best to at least leave the country and return on the right visa before starting work. If you get caught working without a WP it will certainly be very inconvenient for you and your employer may want to wash his hands of you, even if he forced you to do it. For a first offence you are likely to be fined and given a warning but it does depend on the court. They could imprison you and or deport you. If you are imprisoned, even for a month, you will be ineligle for a WP for a year after release. If deported you may also be blacklisted. A second offence could result in 6 months' prison. Apart from penalties you could be banged up while awaiting trial, if they want to be nasty. In most cases the risk is low but the consequences can be severe. Obviously language schools in shopping malls and office buildings are most vulnerable to random searches but they could look anywhere. Teachers are rather vulnerable to raids, as it is pretty obvious they are working, if they are standing in front of a class. I used to have expats come in to the office while we processes their WPs but the staff were drilled to say they were visitors from one of our overseas offices, if any stranger asked. We got away with this 2 or 3 times when snoopers came round from the Labour Ministry. They weren't specifically looking for illegal expats, just checking on general working conditions, but they did ask about each foreigner in the office. Immigration tend to be more aggressive and nasty if they come round but I have never seen them come to random checks in office buildings like the Labour Ministry do. I think they go after factories more where they are more likely to find a large number of illegal labourers and get to shake down the factory owner for a goodly bribe.

Edited by Arkady
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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

Good point - it didn't apply when I first started teaching here. Presumably the same 'circumstances' apply, in that you probably won't have to do the Culture Course or get the teaching licence before you start? Can it also be done, however illegally, a bit later? I teach at a university now, and have done for years, and, for reasons that I fail to understand, we don't need Culture Courses and Teaching Licences. Amazing Thailand...

H.

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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

That is news to me. Do you have any link for that statement.

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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

Good point - it didn't apply when I first started teaching here. Presumably the same 'circumstances' apply, in that you probably won't have to do the Culture Course or get the teaching licence before you start? Can it also be done, however illegally, a bit later? I teach at a university now, and have done for years, and, for reasons that I fail to understand, we don't need Culture Courses and Teaching Licences. Amazing Thailand...

H.

It is a rule set by OBEC and the Teachers Council. Universities simply don't fall under the OBEC and the teachers Council, they make their own rules.

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Excellent! Just add that it matters tremendously the level of connections the school has. Government schools are usually safe to "pre-start" your work. Rarely if ever does the government crack down on itself. Then again, if you're in Red Shirt territory and the local administrators are hold overs from the previous regime, then you might have trouble. One of the visa officers was a graduate of my previous school and he just stamped my passport before I even got to the counter. We had a nice chat about the school and a few of the teachers still left there and I left.

Whatever kind of school it is you need to have the right kind of visa, either a NON-Imm B visa or an O-A visa based on marriage to a Thai. If you are on a tourist or transit visa, it would best to at least leave the country and return on the right visa before starting work. If you get caught working without a WP it will certainly be very inconvenient for you and your employer may want to wash his hands of you, even if he forced you to do it. For a first offence you are likely to be fined and given a warning but it does depend on the court. They could imprison you and or deport you. If you are imprisoned, even for a month, you will be ineligle for a WP for a year after release. If deported you may also be blacklisted. A second offence could result in 6 months' prison. Apart from penalties you could be banged up while awaiting trial, if they want to be nasty. In most cases the risk is low but the consequences can be severe. Obviously language schools in shopping malls and office buildings are most vulnerable to random searches but they could look anywhere. Teachers are rather vulnerable to raids, as it is pretty obvious they are working, if they are standing in front of a class. I used to have expats come in to the office while we processes their WPs but the staff were drilled to say they were visitors from one of our overseas offices, if any stranger asked. We got away with this 2 or 3 times when snoopers came round from the Labour Ministry. They weren't specifically looking for illegal expats, just checking on general working conditions, but they did ask about each foreigner in the office. Immigration tend to be more aggressive and nasty if they come round but I have never seen them come to random checks in office buildings like the Labour Ministry do. I think they go after factories more where they are more likely to find a large number of illegal labourers and get to shake down the factory owner for a goodly bribe.

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Check out this search I did:

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=regulations+you+will+be+required+to+do+the+20+hour+Thai+Culture+Course&aq=f&oq=regulations+you+will+be+required+to+do+the+20+hour+Thai+Culture+Course

The culture course thingy might be old outdated regulations.

Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

That is news to me. Do you have any link for that statement.

Edited by asupeartea
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Arkady, I believe an O-A visa is for retirement and normally does not allow work. A Non-O based on Thai wife will allow work.

Correct. I said an O-A visa based on marriage to a Thai.

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Do you at least have a NON-B so that the school can apply for a work permit for you, if not then this would be the first thing to do

You can apply for a WP without having a non-B visa, it will only not be issued without one.

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Arkady, I believe an O-A visa is for retirement and normally does not allow work. A Non-O based on Thai wife will allow work.

Correct. I said an O-A visa based on marriage to a Thai.

Which is not correct as an O-A visa is only issued for retirement. You mean a non immigrant O visa.

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Check out this search I did:

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=regulations+you+will+be+required+to+do+the+20+hour+Thai+Culture+Course&aq=f&oq=regulations+you+will+be+required+to+do+the+20+hour+Thai+Culture+Course

The culture course thingy might be old outdated regulations.

Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

That is news to me. Do you have any link for that statement.

That is certainly oudated.

Currently you will have to get a (waiver of) the teaching license. For the waiver it is now required that you show a TOEFL or other test to show your proficiency if you are not a native speaker.

For the waiver you do not have to do the cultural course, however if you want an extension of the waiver it helps if you have done the cultural course, to show you are making progress in becoming qualified.

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Short advice -

1. Get NON-B fast. This is the first sign school CAN do WP for you. Preparation of documents for NON-B will take 1-2 days only. In 4-5 days you will have work visa.

2. For NON-B go to Laos. Thai Consulate in Laos can confirm your documents with school even with phone call ( I heard several times this), so your visa will be issued for sure.

3. WP can be obtained fast and you must to come IN PERSON to Labour with someone from school and take it.

4. in 85-87 days from your entry to Kingdom (your Non-B will be issued for 3 month only) you will make extension of stay up to 1 year in Immigration.

5. Make colour copies of passport, WP and keep with you all time you work. Store originals in safe place.

6. Do 90-days report.

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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

That is news to me. Do you have any link for that statement.

Me too, I have a renewal coming up soon and have not heard of this, please provide more info.

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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

That is news to me. Do you have any link for that statement.

Me too, I have a renewal coming up soon and have not heard of this, please provide more info.

The Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course is not a requirement when applying or renewing a work permit. Nor are the passing certificates of sitting the Professional Knowledge Tests conducted by The Teachers' Council of Thailand. What an applicant does need when applying for a work permit is a Teacher License or Provisional Teaching Permit or Exemption Letter from The Teachers' Council of Thailand. The same applies when applying for an extension of stay based on Reasons of Necessity 2.6 or 2.7 (Police Order 777/2551 and 305/2551). This all only applies to working in Basic Education Schools generally falling under the Office of Basic Education Commission (OBEC).

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without a doubt beleave your Embassy.if you get controlled by police you will be in trouble.

get your work permit first...and dont worry for the work ....you will find one very quickly , now the government is giving 120 baths /day/person to everybody from administration who is going to learn english because of the entry in asian comunity.

the thai school who told you, dont worry my friend...no problem....., dont give a shit about you, it is only money they want to make.with no papers here...still they will pay you or not !be very carefull ...ask contract and money strickly every week and if they dont pay you straits like according...go!

it is a lot of money concerned, most important english school here are in mafia system and many even illegal.

so be clever, dont do stupid things or accept funny situations ...you aware now!

good luck

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without a doubt beleave your Embassy.if you get controlled by police you will be in trouble.

get your work permit first...and dont worry for the work ....you will find one very quickly , now the government is giving 120 baths /day/person to everybody from administration who is going to learn english because of the entry in asian comunity.

the thai school who told you, dont worry my friend...no problem....., dont give a shit about you, it is only money they want to make.with no papers here...still they will pay you or not !be very carefull ...ask contract and money strickly every week and if they dont pay you straits like according...go!

it is a lot of money concerned, most important english school here are in mafia system and many even illegal.

so be clever, dont do stupid things or accept funny situations ...you aware now!

good luck

How would you know all this information ?....Are you and English teacher ? Edited by Soutpeel
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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

That is news to me. Do you have any link for that statement.

Me too, I have a renewal coming up soon and have not heard of this, please provide more info.

The Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course is not a requirement when applying or renewing a work permit. Nor are the passing certificates of sitting the Professional Knowledge Tests conducted by The Teachers' Council of Thailand. What an applicant does need when applying for a work permit is a Teacher License or Provisional Teaching Permit or Exemption Letter from The Teachers' Council of Thailand. The same applies when applying for an extension of stay based on Reasons of Necessity 2.6 or 2.7 (Police Order 777/2551 and 305/2551). This all only applies to working in Basic Education Schools generally falling under the Office of Basic Education Commission (OBEC).

Cool thanks! I am not a teacher, just renewing my WP, but the other poster had me worried.

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Under new regulations you will be required to do the 20 hour Thai Culture Course first as this is now required to obtain or re-new a work permit,

and when you do the Thai Culture Course you will also be told that all teachers must now obtain a teaching licence, to teach in Thailand

That is news to me. Do you have any link for that statement.

They only want to see this document, when going for the second provisional teaching license. Just did the paperwork. ---wai2.gif

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without a doubt beleave your Embassy.if you get controlled by police you will be in trouble.

get your work permit first...and dont worry for the work ....you will find one very quickly , now the government is giving 120 baths /day/person to everybody from administration who is going to learn english because of the entry in asian comunity.

the thai school who told you, dont worry my friend...no problem....., dont give a shit about you, it is only money they want to make.with no papers here...still they will pay you or not !be very carefull ...ask contract and money strickly every week and if they dont pay you straits like according...go!

it is a lot of money concerned, most important english school here are in mafia system and many even illegal.

so be clever, dont do stupid things or accept funny situations ...you aware now!

good luck

How would you know all this information ?....Are you and English teacher ?

it is a lot of money concerned, most important english school here are in mafia system and many even illegal.

so be clever, dont do stupid things or accept funny situations ...you aware now!

I do stupid things and love to accept funny situations, but I don't get your post. Is it the illegal Mafia hunting you?---w00t.gif

Edited by sirchai
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without a doubt beleave your Embassy.if you get controlled by police you will be in trouble.

get your work permit first...and dont worry for the work ....you will find one very quickly , now the government is giving 120 baths /day/person to everybody from administration who is going to learn english because of the entry in asian comunity.

the thai school who told you, dont worry my friend...no problem....., dont give a shit about you, it is only money they want to make.with no papers here...still they will pay you or not !be very carefull ...ask contract and money strickly every week and if they dont pay you straits like according...go!

it is a lot of money concerned, most important english school here are in mafia system and many even illegal.

so be clever, dont do stupid things or accept funny situations ...you aware now!

good luck

How would you know all this information ?....Are you and English teacher ?

With grammar and spelling like that, of course he's a teacher !!

In an ideal world you should be making steps to getting a WP, the first one would be getting a Non-B visa, which you later convert to a WP ( you have 3 months from the time of issue to do this) .. but this is Thailand ! If you start on your existing visa, then the chances of getting caught are pretty remote.

To be honest, this is your first job, but the school has probably had a great deal of experience with western teachers, in the first few months they may decide you to be unsuitable or you could decide theres a better job round the corner and they have probably been "burnt" in the past, so they are probably going to give you a prohibition period. You could go in screaming and demanding a WP straight away, but chances are they will lie to you and tell you some BS story to suit themselves, they wont change their mind and it you will be labelled as a trouble maker.

The best idea i find is to go along with whatever the school says, albeit working illegally,if you pass prohbation, they should at least be getting your paperwork together for a non-B, after that they should be applying for your waiver and making active steps towards a WP. You will understand more when you start and speak with other teachers at the school.

My school are pretty good, the term started last Tuesday, that day they prepared the paperwork for a non-B and on Tuesday, sent all the new teachers to get a Non-B, then to return to school on Friday, they class these days as regular working days, so the guys get paid. Other schools I have worked at promised a WP at the interview but just gave hundreds of excuses why they couldn't until the probation period was up and magically the paperwork appeared.

ETS: Good luck, try to forget about your worries and get on with impressing the school. You will find things move along a little quicker if you do.

Edited by recom273
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without a doubt beleave your Embassy.if you get controlled by police you will be in trouble.

get your work permit first...and dont worry for the work ....you will find one very quickly , now the government is giving 120 baths /day/person to everybody from administration who is going to learn english because of the entry in asian comunity.

the thai school who told you, dont worry my friend...no problem....., dont give a shit about you, it is only money they want to make.with no papers here...still they will pay you or not !be very carefull ...ask contract and money strickly every week and if they dont pay you straits like according...go!

it is a lot of money concerned, most important english school here are in mafia system and many even illegal.

so be clever, dont do stupid things or accept funny situations ...you aware now!

good luck

How would you know all this information ?....Are you and English teacher ?

With grammar and spelling like that, of course he's a teacher !!

In an ideal world you should be making steps to getting a WP, the first one would be getting a Non-B visa, which you later convert to a WP ( you have 3 months from the time of issue to do this) .. but this is Thailand ! If you start on your existing visa, then the chances of getting caught are pretty remote.

To be honest, this is your first job, but the school has probably had a great deal of experience with western teachers, in the first few months they may decide you to be unsuitable or you could decide theres a better job round the corner and they have probably been "burnt" in the past, so they are probably going to give you a prohibition period. You could go in screaming and demanding a WP straight away, but chances are they will lie to you and tell you some BS story to suit themselves, they wont change their mind and it you will be labelled as a trouble maker.

The best idea i find is to go along with whatever the school says, albeit working illegally,if you pass prohbation, they should at least be getting your paperwork together for a non-B, after that they should be applying for your waiver and making active steps towards a WP. You will understand more when you start and speak with other teachers at the school.

My school are pretty good, the term started last Tuesday, that day they prepared the paperwork for a non-B and on Tuesday, sent all the new teachers to get a Non-B, then to return to school on Friday, they class these days as regular working days, so the guys get paid. Other schools I have worked at promised a WP at the interview but just gave hundreds of excuses why they couldn't until the probation period was up and magically the paperwork appeared.

ETS: Good luck, try to forget about your worries and get on with impressing the school. You will find things move along a little quicker if you do.

Note a Non-B visa or any other visa for that matter is not converted into a work permit. A visa and a work permit are two different things.

You need a visa (typically NON-B or O) to get the work permit. Also, just because you get the visa this does not guarantee you will get the WP. The employer still needs to qualify for a WP to be issued.

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The rules for working in Thailand and the penalties for not complying with the rules are clearly given on the official Thai government Labour Ministry web site here http://wp.doe.go.th/sites/eng/ .

Information on the various application forms are available here http://wp.doe.go.th/en/downloadform

However,the english type face used in the 'rules for working in Thailand' web page makes it almost impossible to read - I have grabbed the text, set it to a legible font and reprinted it below these paragraphs for clarity.

Our local Chonburi Labour Department informs us that 'due to the long processing times needed for the Alien to receive the work permit in his hands, the alien is permitted to work providing he has a signed and stamped 'slip-of-paper' providing proof that all necessary documents have been received by the Labour Department and that the work permit issuance is in process. My last receipt had 'Receipt for application for renewal of Work Permit WP-5' or similar. I have completed the passport-visa & WP renewal process more around 50 times during my nearly 20 years in Thailand, and am now doing only annual extensions.

The small but very important slip of 'WP Receipt for application' paper (about the same size as a 20 Baht bank note) serves as the Aliens de-facto work permit whilst his real work permit is being issued. Like the real work permit, this important slip-of-paper should be kept on the foriegners person together with his passport while he is at his defined place of work. It has a reference number, labor department stamp and the government officials name that permits any visiting WP/Immigration police to contact the labour department and check-up on the aliens WP processing status. Make a good quality colour copy of it to carry around with you... and to hand to questioning officials who love to lose these important bits of paper, then arrest you for not having it! - keep the origonal in the office safe.

Working of Alien Act, B.E. 2551 (2008)


ALIEN : a natural person who is not of Thai nationality / citizenship.
WORK : the engagement in work by exerting energy or using knowledge for purpose of obtaining wages or other benefits.

ALIENS WHO ARE NOT IN THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND BUT WISH TO WORK IN THE KINGDOM MUST COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING:
1. Contact a Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate in you country for advice and recommendation for Granting a non-immigrant VISA.
2. Employers in Thailand may apply for a work permit for prospective alien employees who wish to work in the kingdom. In case receiving the letter of approval for Work Permit , employer sends that letter to foreigner in order to apply for a Non-immigrant visa from the Royal Thai Embassy. Then the foreigner has to enter to the Kingdom in order to apply for a Work Permit with documents which specified in that letter within 30 days from the day of picking up the approval letter..


ALIENS WHO ARE IN THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND WISH TO WORK IN THE KINGDOM MUST
COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING:

1. An alien who wishes to apply for a work permit under the Board of Investment (BOI) law or other similar commercial laws must file an application for a work permit within 30 days from the date he/she is allowed to work under such law.
CRIMINAL PENALTY : Any violation thereof shall be liable to pay a fine not exceeding one thousand Baht.
2. An alien who lives in the Kingdom or receives a non - immigrant VISA to live in the Kingdom can work in Thailand after having received a work permit.
CRIMINAL PENALTY : Any violation thereof shall make the employee liable for imprisonment not exceeding three months, to pay a fine not exceeding five thousand Baht, or both penalties.
3. An alien who performs work that is proscribed by the Royal decree B.E. 2522(1979) which prohibits alien employment in certain occupations and professions is liable to be imprisoned not exceeding five years, will be fined from 2,000 to 100,000 Baht or both penalties.

QUALIFICATIONS OF AN ALIEN ENTITLED TO APPLY FOR A WORK PERMIT
1. Having residence in the Kingdom or having permission to stay in the kingdom temporarily under immigration law (i.e not simply as a tourist or transit - traveller)
2. Not applying for work in any of the 39 reserved occupations ( as a stated in the Royal Decree. B.E.2522).
3. Having the knowledge and/or skills to perform the work as stated in the application for a work permit.
4. Not being insane or mentally sick.
5. Not being sick of leprosy, tuberculosis, drug addiction, alcoholism, and eephantitus.
6. Not having been imprisoned due to a violation of an immigration law or an alien working law within one year of applying for work permit.


VALIDITY OF WORK PERMIT
1. An authorized official may grant a work permit to an alien in the Kingdom according to the necessity of work, but for not longer than two year.
2. If the duration of employment of an alien is less than one year, a work permit will be granted for not longer than the period requested
3. An application for renewal of a work permit must be submitted before the expiration date of a valid work permit. If a work permit has expired, another application must be completed for a new work permit.

RATE OF GOVERNMENT FEES FOR WORK PERMIT
1. 100 Baht/form = Application Fee
2. 750 Baht = not longer than three months.
3. 1,500 Baht = longer than three months but does not exceed six months.
4. 3,000 Baht = longer than six months but does not exceed one year.
5. For a work permit which is longer than one year, the fee will be increased for the period exceeding one year at the rate shown in items 1,2 and 3 above.
6. 500 Baht/Book = Substitute of a permit
7. 1,000 Baht/time = Permission to change or add job description.
8. 3,000 Baht/time = Permission to change or add employer
9. 1,000 Baht/time = Permission to change or add the locality or place of work
10. 150 Baht/time = Permission to change or add conditions

RIGHT TO APPEAL
If a work permit is not granted, not extended, or is not allowed for a change of work and/or location;
the applicant is entitled to appeal to the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare within 30 days after
being informed of the denial. A decision will be rendered within 60 days.

PLACES TO CONTACT
Bangkok :
Office of Foreign Workers Administration
Department of Employment Ministry of Labour
Mit - Maitree Road, Dindaeng Bangkok 10400
Tel. :0 245 - 2745

One Stop Service Center for Visa and Work Permit
Department of Employment
18th Floor, Jamjuree Building
319 Prayathai Road, Pathumwan
Pathumwan Bangkok 10330

Tel: 0-2209-1100 Call Center 1178


Regional Office :
a Provincial Employment Office in the respective province

---------------------------------------------------------------


OFFICE OF FOREIGN WORKERS ADMINISTRATION

DEPARTMENT OF EMPLOYMENT MINISTRY OF LABOUR

MIT-MAITREE ROAD,DINDAENG BANGKOK 10400

TEL 02-245-2745

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That seems old and incorrect information.

The curent penalty for working without a work permit is a prison sentence of up to 5 years and/or a fine of 2,000 to 100,000 baht.

The employer is only punisht with a fine of bewteen 10,000 and 100,000 baht.

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