Australia Paedophiles Planned To Set Up Doll-Making Business In Thailand

[chooka]

Am I the only one confused by this? Did a crime actually take place or was only talked about?

Notwithstanding my thoughts on how pedophiles should be dealt with (which would earn me an instant ban if aired here), are we now heading down the road toward thought crimes?

Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime in some countries, I believe.

Yes it is an offence in Australia, especially one of this nature.

[chooka]

Those short eyes don't do too well in the US prisons. Many get same treatment they gave the kids.

Any idea what happens in Australian prisons ,as that is where the 3 men in the thread are gonna be residing!?

They are protected and housed in purpose built accomadation well away from the general offenders.

[chooka]

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with entrapment.

All for them bieng locked away in hell for a day over their lifespan, but, that show in the US which setup people chatting online and then meeting up with possible underage sex offenders, is pushing the limits.

From the view that who is to know if that person would actually go through with it, have second thoughts and say sorry, changed my mind etc. Instead his life is ruined forever.

It's a fine line for sure.

Your talking about "to catch a predator." Personally, I have no issues with it and the emails show there perverted intentions. We are so worried about ruining lives of these guys who are actually ruining lives of children?

It isn't entrapment, otherwise that old be illegal and they could hire a lawyer to get them off. This isn't Thailand where the law is payed for and corrupt to a degree that pedophiles run rampant without worry.

Australia does not have the entrapment animal unlike places like the U.S.

[SteeleJoe]

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with entrapment.

All for them bieng locked away in hell for a day over their lifespan, but, that show in the US which setup people chatting online and then meeting up with possible underage sex offenders, is pushing the limits.

From the view that who is to know if that person would actually go through with it, have second thoughts and say sorry, changed my mind etc. Instead his life is ruined forever.

It's a fine line for sure.

Your talking about "to catch a predator." Personally, I have no issues with it and the emails show there perverted intentions. We are so worried about ruining lives of these guys who are actually ruining lives of children?

It isn't entrapment, otherwise that old be illegal and they could hire a lawyer to get them off. This isn't Thailand where the law is payed for and corrupt to a degree that pedophiles run rampant without worry.

Australia does not have the entrapment animal unlike places like the U.S.

What is the "entrapment animal"?

Do you mean that mean Australia doesn't recognize it as a legal defense (mostly true) or that such a thing does not occur in Australia (surely false)?

[Scott]

A series of off-topic posts has been deleted. Please stay on topic.

[chooka]

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with entrapment.

All for them bieng locked away in hell for a day over their lifespan, but, that show in the US which setup people chatting online and then meeting up with possible underage sex offenders, is pushing the limits.

From the view that who is to know if that person would actually go through with it, have second thoughts and say sorry, changed my mind etc. Instead his life is ruined forever.

It's a fine line for sure.

Your talking about "to catch a predator." Personally, I have no issues with it and the emails show there perverted intentions. We are so worried about ruining lives of these guys who are actually ruining lives of children?

It isn't entrapment, otherwise that old be illegal and they could hire a lawyer to get them off. This isn't Thailand where the law is payed for and corrupt to a degree that pedophiles run rampant without worry.

Australia does not have the entrapment animal unlike places like the U.S.

What is the "entrapment animal"?

Do you mean that mean Australia doesn't recognize it as a legal defense (mostly true) or that such a thing does not occur in Australia (surely false)?

It's not a legal defence and in Australia it's simply called an investigation and evidence gathering. I coaxed my fair share of dealers into supplying me with drugs when I was in the Victoria Police Drug Squad. They were hesitant at 1st but I managed to convince them to do so. It definately wasn't considered entrapment.

[OZEMADE]

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with entrapment.

All for them bieng locked away in hell for a day over their lifespan, but, that show in the US which setup people chatting online and then meeting up with possible underage sex offenders, is pushing the limits.

From the view that who is to know if that person would actually go through with it, have second thoughts and say sorry, changed my mind etc. Instead his life is ruined forever.

It's a fine line for sure.

Your talking about "to catch a predator." Personally, I have no issues with it and the emails show there perverted intentions. We are so worried about ruining lives of these guys who are actually ruining lives of children?

It isn't entrapment, otherwise that old be illegal and they could hire a lawyer to get them off. This isn't Thailand where the law is payed for and corrupt to a degree that pedophiles run rampant without worry.

Australia does not have the entrapment animal unlike places like the U.S.

What is the "entrapment animal"?

Do you mean that mean Australia doesn't recognize it as a legal defense (mostly true) or that such a thing does not occur in Australia (surely false)?

In Australia it is known as AGENT PROVOCATEUR and it is illegal in Australia. Basically it means to get someone to do something criminal that they would not normally do. It is a NO NO in OZ.

However the Prosecutor, can offer a deal of a more lenient sentence for information leading to an arrest and conviction of another party.

Or he can offer a more lenient sentence, if a person has been charged on 3 counts i.e. Count 1 discharge a firearm in a public place. Count 2 assault with a deadly weapon, Count 3 possess a firearm without a licence.

In this case the Prosecutor can make an offer to the defendant, to drop 2 of the lesser charges, if he pleads guilty to the worst charge. In this case, discharge a firearm in a public place. a sentence of up to 14 yrs, but taking into account what the circumstances were probably 2 to 3 yrs. By doing this, the other 2 lesser charges would be dropped. If he did not accept this he would take the chance of being convicted by a jury of all 3 offences and possibly being sentenced for up to 30 yrs, but more likely 10 yrs before parole.

Traditionally, an agent provocateur (plural: agents provocateurs, French for "inciting agent(s)") is an agent employed by the police or other entity to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal act or falsely implicate them in partaking in the illegal act. More generally, the term may refer to an undercover person or group of persons that seek to discredit or harm another group (often, peaceful protest or demonstration) by provoking them to commit a wrong or rash action (thus, undermining the protest or demonstration as whole).

[FDog]

I was on a 'dating' site once and the girl wanted to see me naked. The girl's profile stated she was 40.

So I duly undressed, as a horny old git would do and only then did she say she was 15 and using her mother's log in to chat and have fun.

I immediately closed the cam and told her that she had to be 18 to be on that site and I wouldn't have any further discussion.

I found it quite disconcerting that for a site that a person had to be 18 could use underage girls for entrapment. Well that's what I thought anyway.

It is quite easy to get caught out like that. Glad I didn't let my loins get the better of me and used common sense and morals to consider it just the wrong thing to do.

[GaryNelsonHarper]

Grind em' up. Call them "Larb Guys"

[chooka]

I was on a 'dating' site once and the girl wanted to see me naked. The girl's profile stated she was 40.

So I duly undressed, as a horny old git would do and only then did she say she was 15 and using her mother's log in to chat and have fun.

I immediately closed the cam and told her that she had to be 18 to be on that site and I wouldn't have any further discussion.

I found it quite disconcerting that for a site that a person had to be 18 could use underage girls for entrapment. Well that's what I thought anyway.

It is quite easy to get caught out like that. Glad I didn't let my loins get the better of me and used common sense and morals to consider it just the wrong thing to do.

Is that normal behaviour?

Just kidding my friend. I normally like to slap mine around with a wet fish.

[Speros]

Yeah, I have a bit of a problem with entrapment.

All for them bieng locked away in hell for a day over their lifespan, but, that show in the US which setup people chatting online and then meeting up with possible underage sex offenders, is pushing the limits.

From the view that who is to know if that person would actually go through with it, have second thoughts and say sorry, changed my mind etc. Instead his life is ruined forever.

It's a fine line for sure.

A fine line maybe, but if someone is prepared and fishing for underage sex the offender is convicted of a lesser crime, and there is no victim.....

[BookMan]

These guys are sick and will almost certainly never be rehabilitated.

Some quotes from the article on a courtroom exchange

"Your plan was to eventually go to Thailand...full stop," Mr McKenzie put to Cummins.
"There was more to the planning than that," Cummins said. "There was a lot of discussion about the ease of offending (in Thailand)."

He and Pendleton would speak almost daily, with hundreds of phone calls recorded because of prison policy.In the conversations Cummins said they would make jokes about the women they were courting and their children filled with sexual innuendo.

[BookMan]

The court case continues.

Article from the following day:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/court-other-prisoners-told-of-thai-sex-abuse-plan/story-fnhocwho-1226638903004

He asked, ‘do you want to earn a lot of money?’” Hawke said.

He said Pendleton then handed him a piece of paper that looked like an employment contract offering him up to $20,000 a month to look after girls aged eight to ten years old, and the chance to have sex with the children.

“I was surprised, I said ‘I don’t believe ya’, I called him a sick man and he just laughed at me,” Hawke said

[bobl]

The court case continues.

Article from the following day:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/court-other-prisoners-told-of-thai-sex-abuse-plan/story-fnhocwho-1226638903004

He asked, ‘do you want to earn a lot of money?’” Hawke said.

He said Pendleton then handed him a piece of paper that looked like an employment contract offering him up to $20,000 a month to look after girls aged eight to ten years old, and the chance to have sex with the children.

“I was surprised, I said ‘I don’t believe ya’, I called him a sick man and he just laughed at me,” Hawke said

$20k a month?

I'd jump at the chance.

Although I suspect the salary would dry up pretty quickly when they realised that everyone they sent over to partake in the pleasures of their newly established safe haven were mysteriously disappearing...

[BookMan]

The court case continues.

Article from the following day:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/court-other-prisoners-told-of-thai-sex-abuse-plan/story-fnhocwho-1226638903004

He asked, ‘do you want to earn a lot of money?’” Hawke said.

He said Pendleton then handed him a piece of paper that looked like an employment contract offering him up to $20,000 a month to look after girls aged eight to ten years old, and the chance to have sex with the children.

“I was surprised, I said ‘I don’t believe ya’, I called him a sick man and he just laughed at me,” Hawke said

$20k a month?

I'd jump at the chance.

Although I suspect the salary would dry up pretty quickly when they realised that everyone they sent over to partake in the pleasures of their newly established safe haven were mysteriously disappearing...

You would jump at the chance to be paid to have sex with children? I can only hope that was inappropriate sarcasm.

I would guess that the 20,000 was baht, not dollars, and was misinterpreted.

[bobl]

The court case continues.

Article from the following day:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/court-other-prisoners-told-of-thai-sex-abuse-plan/story-fnhocwho-1226638903004

He asked, ‘do you want to earn a lot of money?’” Hawke said.

He said Pendleton then handed him a piece of paper that looked like an employment contract offering him up to $20,000 a month to look after girls aged eight to ten years old, and the chance to have sex with the children.

“I was surprised, I said ‘I don’t believe ya’, I called him a sick man and he just laughed at me,” Hawke said

$20k a month?

I'd jump at the chance.

Although I suspect the salary would dry up pretty quickly when they realised that everyone they sent over to partake in the pleasures of their newly established safe haven were mysteriously disappearing...

You would jump at the chance to be paid to have sex with children?

Very clever. Completely ignore the punchline, if that's what floats your boat.

Edit: Perhaps I should have said

"$20k a month to run a shelter for children?"

For the intellectually challenged

Edited May 11, 2013 by bobl

[BookMan]

Very clever. Completely ignore the punchline, if that's what floats your boat.

Edit: Perhaps I should have said

"$20k a month to run a shelter for children?"

For the intellectually challenged

Nothing clever about my response mate.

Likewise, nothing funny about the subject matter and nothing funny about your alleged punchline.

[bobl]

Nothing clever about my response mate.

Likewise, nothing funny about the subject matter and nothing funny about your alleged punchline.

There is more than one kind of punchline. I don't recall suggesting it was meant to be funny, that was your interpretation.

I must admit I was more expecting an "internet tough guy" response from those narrow minded enough to think that having pedos "disappeared" meant anything other than facilitating their incarceration, preferably for life.

[chooka]

Nothing clever about my response mate.

Likewise, nothing funny about the subject matter and nothing funny about your alleged punchline.

There is more than one kind of punchline. I don't recall suggesting it was meant to be funny, that was your interpretation.

I must admit I was more expecting an "internet tough guy" response from those narrow minded enough to think that having pedos "disappeared" meant anything other than facilitating their incarceration, preferably for life.

I will admit I do not always agree with bookman (thats the nature of t.V) but agree with him here and I also missed your punch line. Saying that you would jump at the chance for 20K a month did throw up a red flag. No offence but maybe next time put it a different way. Hey, we have all been guilty of not correctly putting forward our thoughts.

[Scott]

A number of off-topic troll posts and replies have been deleted.

If you have nothing to say, then please refrain from posting.

[chooka]

Ex-teacher guilty of Thai child abuse plot

1:00am May 18, 2013

A convicted pedophile has been found guilty of a jailhouse conspiracy to set up
a doll-making business in Thailand called "Little Angels" as a front for a child
abuse ring.

Former teacher Mark Pendleton, 53, was charged with conspiring between 2006 and
2008 to have sex with a child under 16 outside Australia. After several hours of deliberation on Friday afternoon, a jury found him guilty
of two of three charges.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/05/17/20/38/ex-teacher-guilty-of-thai-child-abuse-plot

Edited May 17, 2013 by chooka

[BookMan]

Thanks for updating us chooka.

It would be good to think that there could be more charges of these types brought before offences occur. What makes this trial even more extraordinary is that the child sexual assault acts were to occur outside Australia. I haven't head of a case such as this in Australia before, but I'm glad it has been brought and glad that that these guys were stopped and found guilty.

Maybe someone else knows better than me, but I'd have to assume that within child sex offender units, such discussions, plans, information sharing, as has been revealed in this case, are common.

From the article:

A two-week trial in Perth's Supreme Court had been told Pendleton and his jailhouse friend Kenneth Bishop, 74, along with fellow conspirator turned star witness Robert Gordon Cummins, had planned a new life in Asia upon release - with evil intent.

Cummins outlined how the three dreamed up a plan to set up a seemingly legitimate business making dolls wearing traditional Thai costume and employing poor, unsophisticated women from rural areas in the country's north.

Targeting women desperate for money, the men believed they would get free access to their children for sexual pleasure.

[chooka]

Thanks for updating us chooka.

It would be good to think that there could be more charges of these types brought before offences occur. What makes this trial even more extraordinary is that the child sexual assault acts were to occur outside Australia. I haven't head of a case such as this in Australia before, but I'm glad it has been brought and glad that that these guys were stopped and found guilty.

Maybe someone else knows better than me, but I'd have to assume that within child sex offender units, such discussions, plans, information sharing, as has been revealed in this case, are common.

From the article:

A two-week trial in Perth's Supreme Court had been told Pendleton and his jailhouse friend Kenneth Bishop, 74, along with fellow conspirator turned star witness Robert Gordon Cummins, had planned a new life in Asia upon release - with evil intent.

Cummins outlined how the three dreamed up a plan to set up a seemingly legitimate business making dolls wearing traditional Thai costume and employing poor, unsophisticated women from rural areas in the country's north.

Targeting women desperate for money, the men believed they would get free access to their children for sexual pleasure.

A lot of people will argue that pedo's can be reabilitated and cured of thier lust for children but that is just rubbish. Many aussies would know of Mr Baldy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Keith_Jones

I have a cure for them but I doubt civil liberty groups would accept it.

[chooka]

Thanks for updating us chooka.

It would be good to think that there could be more charges of these types brought before offences occur. What makes this trial even more extraordinary is that the child sexual assault acts were to occur outside Australia. I haven't head of a case such as this in Australia before, but I'm glad it has been brought and glad that that these guys were stopped and found guilty.

Maybe someone else knows better than me, but I'd have to assume that within child sex offender units, such discussions, plans, information sharing, as has been revealed in this case, are common.

From the article:

A two-week trial in Perth's Supreme Court had been told Pendleton and his jailhouse friend Kenneth Bishop, 74, along with fellow conspirator turned star witness Robert Gordon Cummins, had planned a new life in Asia upon release - with evil intent.

Cummins outlined how the three dreamed up a plan to set up a seemingly legitimate business making dolls wearing traditional Thai costume and employing poor, unsophisticated women from rural areas in the country's north.

Targeting women desperate for money, the men believed they would get free access to their children for sexual pleasure.

It will be interesting to see what penalties are handed to them at sentencing?

[BookMan]

Thanks for updating us chooka.

It would be good to think that there could be more charges of these types brought before offences occur. What makes this trial even more extraordinary is that the child sexual assault acts were to occur outside Australia. I haven't head of a case such as this in Australia before, but I'm glad it has been brought and glad that that these guys were stopped and found guilty.

Maybe someone else knows better than me, but I'd have to assume that within child sex offender units, such discussions, plans, information sharing, as has been revealed in this case, are common.

From the article:

A two-week trial in Perth's Supreme Court had been told Pendleton and his jailhouse friend Kenneth Bishop, 74, along with fellow conspirator turned star witness Robert Gordon Cummins, had planned a new life in Asia upon release - with evil intent.

Cummins outlined how the three dreamed up a plan to set up a seemingly legitimate business making dolls wearing traditional Thai costume and employing poor, unsophisticated women from rural areas in the country's north.

Targeting women desperate for money, the men believed they would get free access to their children for sexual pleasure.

It will be interesting to see what penalties are handed to them at sentencing?

Yes, probably a few years. What are the chances they will be straight in a plane when they finish the sentence?

The link you provide to Brian Keith Jones in the previous post, is indicative of so many of these child sex offenders. They will just keep offending Sadly, as witnessed by the West Australian case on this thread, many will go to poorer countries around the world to commit their acts rather than stay in Australia.

There is not much support in studies showing they can be rehabilitated. Unfortunately, a lot of studies rely on looking at current offenders and their re-offence rate. The rates are generally high, 30% + (and frankly, is even 1% an acceptable rate?) but the problem is data can only be collected based on the offender being caught or admitting to re-offending, so the actual rate is always going to be far higher than studies will show.

There are currently 2 Commissions of Inquiry going on in Australia looking into institutional child sex abuse.

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Special_Projects/ll_splprojects.nsf/pages/sisa_index

[chooka]

Now that these allegations have been proven and the rockspider convicted, it will be interesting to know what the Thai authorities will do as far as the women who were to provide the kids are concerned.

I am not sure of the protocols of the W.A Police but in Victoria the protocol is to notify thier overseas counterparts.

[BookMan]

Now that these allegations have been proven and the rockspider convicted, it will be interesting to know what the Thai authorities will do as far as the women who were to provide the kids are concerned.

I am not sure of the protocols of the W.A Police but in Victoria the protocol is to notify thier overseas counterparts.

Im not sure if the Thai women were aware? I think these guys were planning on meeting women who had kids and who they could take advantage of?

I think they had sounded out other women on how they felt about child molesters but not necessarily the same women?

I could be totally wrong in my observations

[thhMan]

What I dont understand is why 3 people in prison would be taped conspiring on the phone.

Wouldnt it have been easier just to talk about it face to face?

Isnt it general knowledge (and perhaps even posted on the walls) that when you use a Jail phone that conversations would be recorded?

Is the case based on what they spoke about in Group Therapy?

Its stated that the conversation relating to "family" was an innuendo, so that could be interpreted in many ways.

I dont condone such a vile act and I also dont condone accusations/prosecution based on opinions either.

It wasnt that long ago that the USA invaded a country based on an opinion that the said country had weapons of mass destruction...

I shall refrain from discussing the catholic church

[BookMan]

What I dont understand is why 3 people in prison would be taped conspiring on the phone.

Wouldnt it have been easier just to talk about it face to face?

Isnt it general knowledge (and perhaps even posted on the walls) that when you use a Jail phone that conversations would be recorded?

Is the case based on what they spoke about in Group Therapy?

Its stated that the conversation relating to "family" was an innuendo, so that could be interpreted in many ways.

I dont condone such a vile act and I also dont condone accusations/prosecution based on opinions either.

It wasnt that long ago that the USA invaded a country based on an opinion that the said country had weapons of mass destruction...

I shall refrain from discussing the catholic church

One of the offenders had been released from prison, and following that, there were hundreds of phone calls taped (as per prison policy between the group.

As for the innuendo. When such innuendo comes from convicted paedophiles it carries much more weight than coming from a random member of the public making a one off bad taste joke. When it is discussed over a course of time, through many conversations, it seems more than reasonable to assume that the intent is serious.

[chooka]

What I dont understand is why 3 people in prison would be taped conspiring on the phone.

Wouldnt it have been easier just to talk about it face to face?

Isnt it general knowledge (and perhaps even posted on the walls) that when you use a Jail phone that conversations would be recorded?

Is the case based on what they spoke about in Group Therapy?

Its stated that the conversation relating to "family" was an innuendo, so that could be interpreted in many ways.

I dont condone such a vile act and I also dont condone accusations/prosecution based on opinions either.

It wasnt that long ago that the USA invaded a country based on an opinion that the said country had weapons of mass destruction...

I shall refrain from discussing the catholic church

It is a little hard to speak to the thai women face to face when they are in Thailand and you are locked up in an aussie jail. These weren't just phone conversations but also typed conversations on chat forums with Thai women. You can delete it but nothing on the internet disadpears.

Australian courts do not convict on inuendo's or the grounds of probabilty, opinions also are not accepted as evidence. (Coronial inquests excluded) Australian courts convict only when all reasonable doubt has been eliminated. (Beyong all reasonable doubt). So the evidence presented was overwhelming and proved the intentions of these people.