Superstition Stuff - Why Do They Keep Believing In It ?

[Andre0720]

And the sorceress will not be able to put a bad spell on your children, if you hide their names behind a nickname.

Is that a joke?

Explanation given for the use of nicknames, in a Thailand travel book that I read.

I can try to locate that travel book...

Thank you for the reply. It sadly sounds perfectly reasonable [sic] yet something makes me think that no way it can be true.

My ex-gf was very generous, so I lost many of my things....lol

But here is a quote from a site on that subject:

Thaizer Thailand travel guide

http://www.thaizer.com/culture-shock/superstitions-in-thailand/

''However, the majority of Thais will also be given a nickname. The reason behind this is to confuse the bad spirits and stop them from being attracted to the baby.

. It’s also believed that spirits are attracted to the beautiful and some Thai people, particularly the older generation, may ‘compliment’ a new-born baby by referring to it as nakliat (ugly) or ouan (fat).''

`But then the Thai people generally are no longer aware of the origin of this practice of giving a nickname. When a thai person is asked his or her name, the nickname is expected. Giving the real name will result in a surprise from the person asking....

[khaowong1]

One hundred years ago it was the same in Europe.

The government and the church had an unwritten agreement. If one could keep them stupid then the other would keep them poor.

I don't want to start a big fight/argument about religions, but I believe you are correct. Most current religions were started by a government and a handful of church leaders. Their goal was to keep people stupid and in line. Why was Christmas started on Dec. 25th? Because the Fall/Winter Equinox hit on Dec. 22nd and drew a lot of people to the city centers, spending all kinds of money. Anyone with any brains knows that Jesus wasn't born in the dead of winter. I'll stop here because I know I'm going to piss off a bunch of people.

I picked Buddhism because the Buddha said we ourselves cause our own problems.. Not some diety from out there somewhere. If we can control our own thoughts and actions, most of this goofy crap will go away.

Back to superstitions.. we cause them ourselves. our own ignorant minds. not black cats, ghosts, phi's, Us.

I'm through..

[dressedingreen]

We are pattern seeking primates who see patterns where none exist. Ever see the outline of a sheep in a cloud?

... and often fail to see the ones that DO exist. Behind every superstition is a desire to control the world around us. Many elements of Asian society have so far failed to acknowledge the idea of reasoned analysis. Amulets are thought to be more influential than future planning using an historical perspective. And the affluent and influential in Thai society are happy to keep the masses 'in their place' by not disturbing their sleeping wakefulness.

Western superstition is not so far under the thin facade of reason either. When under pressure, or at times of severe stress, most educated westerners will revert to the superstitions of childhood fairy tale and myth. IOW, when reason fails we seek our version of God again.

Living in the physical world is painful for most. Amulets, superstitions, spells, incantations and folklore are used when we see no other way of gaining control, exercising power over our lives and environments.

Why don't people learn from their superstitious failures? Because there is as yet nothing to replace the superstitions. Until the cultural hierarchy starts disseminating reason and planning as workable substitutes the masses will continue to work with what they believe is all that's available. It is a human trait to disregard the many failures and embrace the few successes. We calm our inner turmoil by convincing ourselves something must have gotten between our correct belief and the expected outcome. It becomes a way of supporting the ailing self, the delicate ego.

The western hemisphere is still learning to cope without the multifarious incarnations of the rabbit's foot. Asia is just a little further behind the curve.

DIG

[notmyself]

My ex-gf was very generous, so I lost many of my things....lol

But here is a quote from a site on that subject:

Thaizer Thailand travel guide

http://www.thaizer.com/culture-shock/superstitions-in-thailand/

''However, the majority of Thais will also be given a nickname. The reason behind this is to confuse the bad spirits and stop them from being attracted to the baby.

. It’s also believed that spirits are attracted to the beautiful and some Thai people, particularly the older generation, may ‘compliment’ a new-born baby by referring to it as nakliat (ugly) or ouan (fat).''

`But then the Thai people generally are no longer aware of the origin of this practice of giving a nickname. When a thai person is asked his or her name, the nickname is expected. Giving the real name will result in a surprise from the person asking....

Cheers for that, good read. It is indeed very animistic in nature.

[notmyself]

We are pattern seeking primates who see patterns where none exist. Ever see the outline of a sheep in a cloud?

... and often fail to see the ones that DO exist. Behind every superstition is a desire to control the world around us. Many elements of Asian society have so far failed to acknowledge the idea of reasoned analysis. Amulets are thought to be more influential than future planning using an historical perspective. And the affluent and influential in Thai society are happy to keep the masses 'in their place' by not disturbing their sleeping wakefulness.

Western superstition is not so far under the thin facade of reason either. When under pressure, or at times of severe stress, most educated westerners will revert to the superstitions of childhood fairy tale and myth. IOW, when reason fails we seek our version of God again.

Living in the physical world is painful for most. Amulets, superstitions, spells, incantations and folklore are used when we see no other way of gaining control, exercising power over our lives and environments.

Why don't people learn from their superstitious failures? Because there is as yet nothing to replace the superstitions. Until the cultural hierarchy starts disseminating reason and planning as workable substitutes the masses will continue to work with what they believe is all that's available. It is a human trait to disregard the many failures and embrace the few successes. We calm our inner turmoil by convincing ourselves something must have gotten between our correct belief and the expected outcome. It becomes a way of supporting the ailing self, the delicate ego.

The western hemisphere is still learning to cope without the multifarious incarnations of the rabbit's foot. Asia is just a little further behind the curve.

DIG

Very well said.

[PalMan]

You guys keep using the word "superstition" as if it had a concrete meaning.

Just like "paganism" or "perversion" it's pretty much a content-free term, just means things that are outside of some arbitrary culturally-defined "box" of acceptability.

Is using leeches in medical practice superstitious? Sure, until "modern science" suddenly discovers they are actually very helpful in some cases.The way the drug industry has corrupted medical research, it would be superstitious to consume recently-released pharmaceuticals.

When beliefs are widely accepted in a given community

All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

-- Albert Einstein

Even Albert kept an open mind about the validity of beliefs in things we haven't explained yet, i.e. the "supernatural".

[Suradit69]

Poor education so people are taught what to think rather than how to think.

Superstitions are hardly the preserve of Thais or poorly educated people.

Ever notice how many buildings in western countries skip the 13th floor ... you go from 12 to 14?

How many Europeans bet on football games based on what some Octopus predicted?

How many people in the west would plan a special personal event on a Friday the 13th?

Many people in the west have lucky coins, a lucky rabbit foot (unlucky for the rabbit), won't open an umbrella inside the house, get upset if a mirror is broken and won't give a gift of a wallet without some cash in it.

And many people who bet on lotteries or in casinos have lucky numbers or other quirks when gambling, even though they probably lose as much as they win.

They may laugh about it for fear of being ridiculed, but they still bet money according to what Paul the Octopus (RIP) predicted.

It's hardly an exclusively Thai thing and really how well-educated can the millions of people in America or Europe be if they still think spending money on lottery tickets is a sensible thing to do or that they have devised a fool-proof system to break the bank at Monte Carlo?

[stoneyboy]

Poor education so people are taught what to think rather than how to think.

Superstitions are hardly the preserve of Thais or poorly educated people.

Ever notice how many buildings in western countries skip the 13th floor ... you go from 12 to 14?

How many Europeans bet on football games based on what some Octopus predicted?

How many people in the west would plan a special personal event on a Friday the 13th?

Many people in the west have lucky coins, a lucky rabbit foot (unlucky for the rabbit), won't open an umbrella inside the house, get upset if a mirror is broken and won't give a gift of a wallet without some cash in it.

And many people who bet on lotteries or in casinos have lucky numbers or other quirks when gambling, even though they probably lose as much as they win.

They may laugh about it for fear of being ridiculed, but they still bet money according to what Paul the Octopus (RIP) predicted.

It's hardly an exclusively Thai thing and really how well-educated can the millions of people in America or Europe be if they still think spending money on lottery tickets is a sensible thing to do or that they have devised a fool-proof system to break the bank at Monte Carlo?

Yep I never walk under ladders or put new shoes on the table

And often touch wood.

[HOOD Robin]

dont look between your legs as you will see a ghost.

dont stand in doorways as ghosts will come in.

dont talk at the table ghosts will take your rice.

dont talk to people whilst holding a knife, ghosts will push you.

dont put the baby in front of the mirror her teeth will not grow.

dont tickle her feet she will be scared to walk later.

howling dogs means a ghost is around.

if your leaving the house and a lizard, jing jot makes a noise it means your going to have an accident.

a few of hundreds i have heard.

HAHAHA..... "don't talk at the table".... You must be kidding!

Have you ever seen one Thai who can keep his/her mouth shut for 1 minute at the table ???

[stoneyboy]

Poor education so people are taught what to think rather than how to think.

Superstitions are hardly the preserve of Thais or poorly educated people.

Ever notice how many buildings in western countries skip the 13th floor ... you go from 12 to 14?

How many Europeans bet on football games based on what some Octopus predicted?

How many people in the west would plan a special personal event on a Friday the 13th?

Many people in the west have lucky coins, a lucky rabbit foot (unlucky for the rabbit), won't open an umbrella inside the house, get upset if a mirror is broken and won't give a gift of a wallet without some cash in it.

And many people who bet on lotteries or in casinos have lucky numbers or other quirks when gambling, even though they probably lose as much as they win.

They may laugh about it for fear of being ridiculed, but they still bet money according to what Paul the Octopus (RIP) predicted.

It's hardly an exclusively Thai thing and really how well-educated can the millions of people in America or Europe be if they still think spending money on lottery tickets is a sensible thing to do or that they have devised a fool-proof system to break the bank at Monte Carlo?

Yep I never walk under ladders or put new shoes on the table.

And often touch wood.

I've touched cloth in the past but that's for another day.

[user786895]

Well, in my opinion, and I know it is a bit off the wall BUT you have to be able to see life through their eyes to understand their superstitions and beliefs. I can't do that 'cos I ain't Thai, but my previous experience of life has taught me that many cultures hold strong beliefs and superstitions so 'tightly' that for them to ignore them, or to disrespect them actually affects their health. In other words we may scoff, we may laugh at their various 'ludicrous' fears and 'wacky' superstitions, but guys, it works for them.

And I throw this one in just for fun: next time you meet French people ask them if they have ghosts in France.

[Nuna]

IMO, It's not different from die hard missionaries in Thailand for their belief in something deeply without any evidence.

[RakJungTorlae]

The world over has there own unique superstitions some bizarre more then Thailand. Just be happy they don't believe in taking a shower in cow piss.

[Frank James]

An ex lady friend of mine brought her three year old daughter to my room at an old hotel in CM that has now been gutted and remodeled. The kid had been to my rooms many times before, but this night she started crying and freaking out as soon as she walked in the door. She pointed to an empty chair, and told her mother that an old farang lady was there, smiling, and beckoning her to come.

Other people, farangs included, told me this hotel was haunted. My current Thai wife swears she saw a ghost of some sort in the room one night when she got up to take a leak. She believes in the spirit world, like most non-'Hi-So' Thais, and gets annoyed when I tell her that I do not. So, I don't press. Why try to dissuade someone who has believed such things from birth, and always will.

I never saw any such things there, but did occasionally feel draughts of cool air in the bedroom, as if something cool had passed by. This, when no AC or fan was on, and no breeze was coming from outside.

Dream books, lucky numbers, etc etc...these things seem to be encouraged by a lot of the monks, who apparently make a good living (not all, of course). Buddhism on paper makes a lot of sense to me as a way of thinking, but as it is practiced here, I don't know. Seems a long way from what Gautama taught.

[Frank James]

PS: It seems that when topics like this come up, the die-hard atheists take the opportunity to slam some or all of the religious beliefs of the faithful. This trend seems to have become very noticeable in recent years, with guys like the late drunk Christopher Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins leading the charge. Such people have turned atheism into almost a religious orthodoxy.

Live and let live.

[heatherm]

My husband was a cute baby. To protect him from ghosts his mother poked him in the forehead with an incense stick and burned him. She figured if he had a scar the ghosts would leave him alone. He still has the scar.

About the puppy acting up in the master bedroom, I totally believe a dog could smell that a rotting corpse had been in the room recently. That's why they use dogs to find bombs, survivors, drugs and corpses. They have a great sense of smell.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

[papa al]

Psychologists call it 'Cognitive Dissonance.'

People will believe what they have always believed...what they are comfortable in believing...rather than that which is supported by evidence.

To do otherwise is too uncomfortable.

It transcends cultures.

For example, in America most people don't believe that species evolved through natural selection.

Example #2: Many Americans don't believe that CO2 emissions are causing global climate changes.

Example #3: Most Americans think that their country is a beneficent force in the world, even though it has bombed/shelled/invaded over 26 countries since WWII resulting in millions of deaths, mostly women and children.

Edited May 20, 2013 by metisdead
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[papa al]

dont look between your legs as you will see a ghost.

dont stand in doorways as ghosts will come in.

dont talk at the table ghosts will take your rice.

dont talk to people whilst holding a knife, ghosts will push you.

dont put the baby in front of the mirror her teeth will not grow.

dont tickle her feet she will be scared to walk later.

howling dogs means a ghost is around.

if your leaving the house and a lizard, jing jot makes a noise it means your going to have an accident.

a few of hundreds i have heard.

To prevent your new shoes hurting your feet, bite them.

The shoes or your feet?

[PalMan]

PS: It seems that when topics like this come up, the die-hard atheists take the opportunity to slam some or all of the religious beliefs of the faithful. This trend seems to have become very noticeable in recent years, with guys like the late drunk Christopher Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins leading the charge. Such people have turned atheism into almost a religious orthodoxy.

Live and let live.

-

I completely agree, but it's a natural response when the OP (and many others) imply that a whole nation (or Asians in general or any grouping) is "stupid" because of their belief in things that aren't proven by modern science.

Since so many of "our fellows" on this side of the "us vs them" divide also have their supersitions, but claim them to be protected as "religion", it's fair enough to point out that the Thai beliefs are no different, and in fact even if many/most aren't Buddhist they certainly are just as deserving of respect as those supernatural beliefs considered mainstream in the West like Christianity.

Just as I wouldn't denigrate someone for practicing voudou or Scientology, until such practice actually starts to result in harm to others, not any of my business to set myself up as superior just because my religion is Skepticism/Scientism.

Edited May 19, 2013 by PalMan

[notmyself]

I completely agree, but it's a natural response when the OP (and many others) imply that a whole nation (or Asians in general or any grouping) is "stupid" because of their belief in things that aren't proven by modern science.

No people from any 'group' are stupid though they can suffer from very poor education which may or may not be due to divisiveness.

[PalMan]

No people from any 'group' are stupid though they can suffer from very poor education which may or may not be due to divisiveness.

-

No matter how good the education system is, cultural programming held as true by that society will still be uncritically passed along to the next generation.

Personally I think most mainstream education systems no matter how "excellent" (by what standard?) are designed to crank out obedient citizens and employees, not free thinkers that question authority.

What you consider an excellent education would be considered a tool of the devil by a creationist. I'm sure Prince Charles and the Dalai Lama got sent to top schools - would you say they are both free of "superstitions"?

I bet many students at our societies' top schools believe in superstitions like "Muslims are scary" or "My country is a democracy and is on the side of fairness, equality and freedom", and in fact may be explicitly taught those beliefs within the school system.

I'm not actually trying to push for superstitions to be eliminated here, I think that's not possible, just for people to be more accepting and tolerant of them realizing they're inevitable and just because "they" have a different set than "we" do doesn't make us superior.

[notmyself]

No people from any 'group' are stupid though they can suffer from very poor education which may or may not be due to divisiveness.

-

No matter how good the education system is, cultural programming held as true by that society will still be uncritically passed along to the next generation.

If that were true then we would not see advancement such as women being able to vote or not being able to own another human being.

What you consider an excellent education would be considered a tool of the devil by a creationist. I'm sure Prince Charles and the Dalai Lama got sent to top schools - would you say they are both free of "superstitions"?

Never said it was an absolute and would suggest reading the paper in post 12 on this thread.

I'm not actually trying to push for superstitions to be eliminated here, I think that's not possible, just for people to be more accepting and tolerant of them realizing they're inevitable and just because "they" have a different set than "we" do doesn't make us superior.

Defeatist, why bother trying to change anything? Edited May 19, 2013 by notmyself

[Dap]

Nearly all the homes in and around my village have a shirt or scarecrow like figure at the entrance to stop ghosts or spirits taking the man apparsntly, anyone else have this ?

Was on a morning bike ride with a Thai buddy some time back when we came across a red t-shirt tacked to the wall in front of the house. My buddy asked me to take a photo of him standing in front of the shirt. As we were doing this a older lady walked out to deposit some trash. My buddy asked her of the meaning of the shirt and she told us that recently several men in the village had died in their sleep and the local soothsayer had "suggested" everyone in the village needed to post a red shirt with the words "There are no men in this house." As we continued the ride through the area it was obvious that the greatest majority of the folk had taken the "suggestion" quite seriously.

[Dap]

dont look between your legs as you will see a ghost.

dont stand in doorways as ghosts will come in.

dont talk at the table ghosts will take your rice.

dont talk to people whilst holding a knife, ghosts will push you.

dont put the baby in front of the mirror her teeth will not grow.

dont tickle her feet she will be scared to walk later.

howling dogs means a ghost is around.

if your leaving the house and a lizard, jing jot makes a noise it means your going to have an accident.

a few of hundreds i have heard.

And the sorceress will not be able to put a bad spell on your children, if you hide their names behind a nickname.

There's one I've never heard. Interesting that, thanks.

[Dap]

Thank you for the reply. It sadly sounds perfectly reasonable [sic] yet something makes me think that no way it can be true.

My ex-gf was very generous, so I lost many of my things....lol

But here is a quote from a site on that subject:

Thaizer Thailand travel guide

http://www.thaizer.com/culture-shock/superstitions-in-thailand/

''However, the majority of Thais will also be given a nickname. The reason behind this is to confuse the bad spirits and stop them from being attracted to the baby.

. It’s also believed that spirits are attracted to the beautiful and some Thai people, particularly the older generation, may ‘compliment’ a new-born baby by referring to it as nakliat (ugly) or ouan (fat).''

`But then the Thai people generally are no longer aware of the origin of this practice of giving a nickname. When a thai person is asked his or her name, the nickname is expected. Giving the real name will result in a surprise from the person asking....

Thanks for that K. A0720. I have often heard the story behind calling the children by uncomplimentary tags as well.

[bangkockney]

Why do some people still believe in god... Same reason, people need to believe because they are too weak !

A British man climbed Everest 18 months after partially crushing 3 vertebrae following a parachuting accident. He's a Christian. Is he too weak?

Your comment is crass.

Edited May 19, 2013 by bangkockney

[Raybo]

A Thai lady friend attended my mothers funeral and she said if I bent over and looks thru my legs, I would see my mothers spirit.

I bentmover and looked and when I straightend up up my friend ask "what did you see?" I told her only my gonads.

She is still mad at me.

Chulai6768

[notmyself]

Nearly all the homes in and around my village have a shirt or scarecrow like figure at the entrance to stop ghosts or spirits taking the man apparsntly, anyone else have this ?

Was on a morning bike ride with a Thai buddy some time back when we came across a red t-shirt tacked to the wall in front of the house. My buddy asked me to take a photo of him standing in front of the shirt. As we were doing this a older lady walked out to deposit some trash. My buddy asked her of the meaning of the shirt and she told us that recently several men in the village had died in their sleep and the local soothsayer had "suggested" everyone in the village needed to post a red shirt with the words "There are no men in this house." As we continued the ride through the area it was obvious that the greatest majority of the folk had taken the "suggestion" quite seriously.

I always worry about commenting on situations such as this as I could fall foul of the slippery slope argument.

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).

Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

However, if I were to meet someone who put a red shirt in their wall with magic words on it I would worry about what else they would be willing to use this lack of logic with.

[Mudcrab]

A Thai lady friend attended my mothers funeral and she said if I bent over and looks thru my legs, I would see my mothers spirit.

I bentmover and looked and when I straightend up up my friend ask "what did you see?" I told her only my gonads.

She is still mad at me.

Chulai6768

Could have asked her to bend over so that you could look through her legs.......though I suspect a slapped face may have followed.

[PalMan]

Here's a perfect example of where Scientism can be taken to such extremes it becomes as bad as other superstitions:

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/05/why-are-we-not-much-much-much-better-at-parenting/

This guy actually thinks that science is the answer to modern-day parenting problems!

From the last paragraph:

Finally, even when the problems and solutions are clear, our technology may not be advanced enough. Some sort of soft, warm robot nanny, that cradled the infant and fed it as needed, would be a boon to most parents, allowing them to focus on more quality interactions with their children. That would be great – but designing such a nanny is a very hard problem in robotics and AI. Sometimes, we know what would help, but we just can’t put it together.

-

I mean really, does anyone here have so little common sense that they really think the health-giving interactions communications involved between a human parent and child while holding and cuddling are reducible to texture, temperature, chemicals etc, only the things our current (very primitive) state of science knows how to measure?

Sure I can't "prove" my instinct that this is ridiculous, does that make my belief superstitious?

So here I am, come full circle, belittling the author of this article because of his beliefs - personally I have more respect for the Thai paying respects when passing the corner spirit house, at least she doesn't come out and openly call us non-believers stupid.

------------

PS regarding our screwed up parenting, I think this problem is due more to conscious choices we make giving in to social pressures, not lack of knowledge on how to be good parents - society doesn't sufficiently value that role, so we put our time and energy into where they are best rewarded. But about as off-topic as it gets I suppose. . .

Edited May 19, 2013 by PalMan