Gang Raping

[Savage]

My work colleague told be about a gang rape that occured around rama 2 road last week. According to his wife a girl was gang raped by up to 30 men. According to the report absolutely nobody came to the girls assistance and worse than that passers by joined in.

I refused to believe this however when I got home my wife confirmed this story without expanding on it. I haven't seen anything in the English language news . Not a suprise at the moment, what with the Bangkok posts wildly biased and one tracked reporting of late.

Can anyone confirm this story and what happened please?

[Thaising]

My work colleague told be about a gang rape that occured around rama 2 road last week. According to his wife a girl was gang raped by up to 30 men. According to the report absolutely nobody came to the girls assistance and worse than that passers by joined in.

I refused to believe this however when I got home my wife confirmed this story without expanding on it. I haven't seen anything in the English language news . Not a suprise at the moment, what with the Bangkok posts wildly biased and one tracked reporting of late.

Can anyone confirm this story and what happened please?

All the gangs has been arrested and the police is preparing the case to prosecute these f### in court.

[thaibebop]

This really happened?! OMG, I feel very sick right now. Is the girl still alive? If so, how is she doing?

[GoodHeart]

I read the account that was published in the Nation -apparently on the morning after- it was a very bleak and depressing read. According to what I remember of the story they raped two girls who were 15 and 14. The gang of 30 were all teens who were led by recently released [for the umpteenth time] ne'er-do-well teen chronic offender. One of the witnesses told the reporter they had tried to take his 15 yr old GF, but he talked the gang out of that due to his having casually know the thug leader.

Some early morning vendors or illegal campers nearby heard the commotion but apparently were so affraid for their own safety that they waited till the thugs were done before they called for assistance and went to the girls aid. Story said both were in hospital at press time and one had not regained consciousness by then.

[sriracha john]

the complete original article:

Two girls gang-raped at Bangkok temple fair

Published on Mar 14, 2006

14 and 15-year-old in hospital after attack by about 30 men

Two teenage girls were gang raped by about 30 men at a temple fair site in Thung Khru district, Bangkok early yesterday, police said.

At 7am, police went to Bang Pakok hospital where 14-year-old Mew and unconscious 15-year-old Gig (not their real names), were treated, said Police Lieutenant Krisada Kaensamrong, of Rat Burana police station.

Their friend Tuk (also not her real name), 15, told police she, her boyfriend and the two girls were at the bumper-car booth at Wat Bang Mod Sotararam in Soi Pracha-Utit 33 after the fair closed. At about 4am, roughly 30 young men, including one named Eung who had just got out of jail, approached and forced the girls at knife point to go with them.

"I was lucky because my boyfriend knew these guys and asked them not to take me away, but Mew and Gig were taken," Tuk said.

Mew and Gig were gang raped and beaten at a spot near the temple wall. The men went on to threaten others not to interfere or they too would be raped.

Police found a pair of jeans, some sandals, two used condoms, a used tampon and a knife at the scene.

A temple fair worker, who asked not to be named, said she and a co-worker were woken by a girl's cry for help.

"I saw a girl was being raped by a group of men near to my tent. I also heard another girl's cry nearby.

We dialled 191 five times, but the line was busy. An officer answered at about 4.30am," the witness said, adding that it was dark and she could not see the rapists' faces. She said she just heard someone calling out "Boy".

"We waited for a long time for the police. The men finished with the girls and grabbed 10 dolls from our booth. I shouted 'Thieves!', which prompted them to flee," she said, adding that her co-workers rushed the girls to hospital.

Yesterday, police were questioning 10 teenage suspects, from whom they took DNA samples to compare them with the rapists' semen in the condoms found at the scene.

---------------------------------

No other follow-up stories regarding arrests or prosecution could be found.

[tutsiwarrior]

unfortunately gang rape is not a big deal in Thailand...it has a name, loosely translated as 'helping your friend'

I know women in my area who have been gang raped...I asked the wife 'what a lovely girl...why does she not have a husband?' The wife said she was gang raped and no one wants her. The girl in question was done by 15 men and was discovered naked in the road the next morning. Two guys paid a 20k baht fine...

fascinating Thailand...

[aaaaaa]

According to what I remember of the story they raped two girls who were 15 and 14. The gang of 30 were all teens who were led by recently released [for the umpteenth time] ne'er-do-well teen chronic offender.

looks like another example of MOB RULE, perhaps nastier than murdering that muslim guy. at least he's got quick death. the gal(s) would have to live the rest of her only started life, bearing the consiquences of this obnoxious violation - not wanted by anyone, and perhaps even despised - for what? for something they they were brutally forced to go through.

there was recently Thai movie "Dek den" - anyone saw it? I was told that in English it means somehing like "garbage children".

well, what to be surprised about ? Thailand is becoming part of "civilized" world, supposedly to jump from category of "3rd country" to "1st", with all the accompaning phenomenas of "developed" world.

I wonder how long it'll take for similar as in the West reports to appear about student coming to school with gun shooting schoolmates on random ?

yes, it is true that lust and such viles don't have particular national or racila identification. and yet, somehow in Asia so far it has been much less such things than in the West. looks like things gonna change soon, and already are changing.

[Savage]

I've just become a father to a little girl and the more I think about this story the more depressed I get. According to the tv report some of the violaters wore plastic bags as condoms. I just don't get how something like this could just slip through the publics concience and not even get reported in the biggest selling English daily. As with what happened with the shrine recently, the fact that someone ended up dead was just incidental.

The simple fact is a mob could be raised in seconds, don't believe it? Go and smack a Thai in the face in a public place. It's a very sad state of affairs that 2 girls are going to suffer for the rest of their lives because of this and a general lack of public help. Surely a largish group of people could have scared them off?

[zzap]

...

yes, it is true that lust and such viles don't have particular national or racila identification. and yet, somehow in Asia so far it has been much less such things than in the West. looks like things gonna change soon, and already are changing.

Rape is widely spread in Asia. I used to find it rather old fashioned, the way the teenage girls in particular are guarded, but I've come to understand more of the background to this over the years. Maybe you don't read about it so often in the media.

"Lust and such viles" have little to do with a public gang-rape. It's mostly about power, intimidation, violence and violation. - think about it: if you were 'lusting' after sex, is this what you would get into?

[Indo-Siam]

looks like another example of MOB RULE, perhaps nastier than murdering that muslim guy.

Let's get something straight.

The guys who "murdered" the shrine destroyer were not predators - they were working men who were working at their jobs when a violent attack took place - by a criminal perpetrator - and they responded in defense of their community.

The guys who raped the girls were also CRIMINAL PREDATOR PERPETRATORS - and the article points out clearly that the leader of the predators was just released by an ineffective government system that cannot control the predators. In is ineffective judicial controls that generate tendencies toward vigilante justice.

Had some nearby street cleaners responded to try to defend the raped girls - brandishing pipes, and killing several of the rapists while trying to repel a predatory mob, I'm sure that a long line of whiners on this board would be calling for their heads, for dispensing extra-judical justice.

You can't have it both ways. And - you can't draw the invalid comparisons that you just did - and get away with it. The 30 rapists were parallels of the shrine destroyer - not the two city employees who took him down. It was mob predation - not mob justice. If you can't see the difference, then you have some serious perception problems.

It is terrible what happened to these girls. I have little faith that anything resembling appropraite justice will be done to the perpetrators. But - sooner of later, these predatory thugs will probably run across a situation where someone dispenses on-the-spot justice. And - that is probably the only thing that will stop them. That's sad - but that's reality.

Indo-Siam

[zzap]

Repelling a raping gang of youths isn't the same as clubbing to death a guy fleeing from a crime-scene, Indo-Siam.

Put your thinking cap on before posting.

[chuchok]

Repelling a raping gang of youths isn't the same as clubbing to death a guy fleeing from a crime-scene, Indo-Siam.

Put your thinking cap on before posting.

I have to agree.I wonder what he does if someone steals staples at his work?...amputate fingers with a blunt knife

[kat]

... well, what to be surprised about ? Thailand is becoming part of "civilized" world, supposedly to jump from category of "3rd country" to "1st", with all the accompaning phenomenas of "developed" world.

I wonder how long it'll take for similar as in the West reports to appear about student coming to school with gun shooting schoolmates on random ?

yes, it is true that lust and such viles don't have particular national or racila identification. and yet, somehow in Asia so far it has been much less such things than in the West. looks like things gonna change soon, and already are changing.

Ok, look, I get sick and tired of people making poor comparisons to the West simply to deflect from social problems that are quite specific. If you want to discuss Western problems, then go ahead and do so, but don't even attempt to imply that gang rape is an exported problem from the West, or a product of development.

The frequency, scope, degree, and impunity of gang rape is most CERTAINLY a phenemenon in the developing world, especially in Asia. The attitudes, customs, and mentality that have allowed this to occur have always been here.

[GoodHeart]

I just don't get how something like this could just slip through the publics concience and not even get reported in the biggest selling English daily.

LOL -that is the idea, Sherlock.I f it doesn't get reported in the biggest selling English daily then we can all go on smiling in the Land of Smiles. Denial is, after all, a coping mechanism.

But at least it is was printed in the second biggest selling English daily. [precisely the reason I patronize it]

Maybe you haven't heard the oft repeated refrain of the Thai language litererates amongst us, but I have, and they say an entirely different ['n darker] picture emerges when you read the days' news according to the Thai language presses.

Ours is a sanitized version of events....

[GoodHeart]

I just don't get how something like this could just slip through the publics concience and not even get reported in the biggest selling English daily.

LOL -that's the whole idea, Sherlock. If it doesn't get reported in the biggest selling English daily then we can all go on smiling in the Land of Smiles. Denial is, after all, a coping mechanism and ignorance is bliss. Right?

But, at least it was printed in the second biggest selling English daily. [precisely the reason why I patronize #2]

Maybe you haven't heard the oft repeated refrain of the Thai language litererates amongst us, but I have, and they say an entirely different ['n darker] picture emerges when you read the days' news according to the Thai language presses.

Ours is a sanitized version of events....

[Amethyst]

OMG... This is sick.. 30 boys doing it with 2 innocent ladies.. Get a life Boys !!!!

[aaaaaa]

Ok, look, I get sick and tired of people making poor comparisons to the West simply to deflect from social problems that are quite specific. If you want to discuss Western problems, then go ahead and do so, but don't even attempt to imply that gang rape is an exported problem from to the West, or a product of development.

hmmm...

ok, what's according you is NOT deflection from social problems ?

are you sick (more? less? at all?) of people constantly complaining about this or that being bad in Thailand ? and surely they based their complains or whatever that is on their comparison to the West.

and please admit, often you do that too - compare many things here to same things in the West. or may be that is comparision with some imagined place, wished to be, not West ? or those comparisons are stronger ? I mean - how much different those comparisons are?

surely if people continue talking about all those things, using as criteria their sets of values and principles (Western) - comparison with same Western things and phenomenas would go on as well.

and trying to compare so - doesn't necessary means avoiding solutions of real issues or "deflecting" from social problems. may be for you it does, not for others. because by comparing some people try to figure out where are they now, how it is different and why....

as I can see, people are not trying to close their eyes or deny/ dismiss this and other social issues. they express their opinions and suggestions how to address those issues. but wast majority of us are not Thai citizen, we can't make real decisions for them; and even if we were - government here does (where it doesn't ?) decide what and how and to wich extent particular issue should be adressed, solution made and then again decision applied in real life (many governments make public show that steps are taken - are they realy taken?).

so, what difference it would make to constantly complain (based on Western values) ? only would

develope or encrease (if it has already developed) bitterness in someone, in my opinion.

what REAL feasible solution you might propose, say, about this issue of gang rape by teens ?

then, would this solution be accepted and executed by Thai government (who are busy squablling sharing larger piece of "pie", confused even in their own technics and methods) ?

then what's the point to talk about so much ? as someone said (I think in thread about Thai Face) that if problem can't be solved, then it is waste of time and often loss of face to even bring it up.

yes, you are right - attitudes, mentality - that has existed always or for a long time. sex, promiscuty, striptise or whatever, as erotic dances - nothing new in Asia. but it has been done with certain degree of concern about public in general, and those one's elders or younger (or little), or one's superior and respected - descretely, in private establishments. not as it become now.

like go to Jatujak market on weekend to see the "imported" arti- and superficial show-up which provokes lust. young Thais claim it has become Thai version of Japanese Harajuhu (or what is the correct name?). and it is during day time. night time - go SOOO many places, some biggest on Ratchada. we are talking about Thai teenagers, not farangs catering go-go bars.

Thai TV was showing many thematic programs about young 13-15 teen prostitutes on Rama 4 Rd, many of whom do this "for fun" - with motorsike drivers; make a competitions (who'll "do" how many men sooner, with taking phone numbers of those men as edicence) and bet for money.

there were always and in all countries prostitutes. but were they staying on the side-road here (again, open for public view) previously? was this not "imported" from the West ? may be in some particular disctricts / areas in the city - where usually low-class people lived and visited - but not on main streets and beside biggest hotels (as across Sheraton on Sukhumvit, or Landmark hotel).

was WHOLE INDUSTRY made of such trade - with huge establishments as "Poseidon" (how many floors there) and many other on Ratchada, or all those go-go bars (is it NOT imported term and kind of sex-selling "fun" place?). the concept of INDUSTRY itself - is imported from the West thing. as well as how this concept has been applied to this particular "trade" - Asian people won't be so clever to implement it.

is it not ?

sex-industry - what a term !

we can talk about many other things.

like webcam conferences or chat rooms - entire websites just for that, interview made with some of gals who ONLY stay in the rooms and do all this "performance" in front of camera - no study, no work, nothing else - only sleeping during day time so that to be rested for whole night session.

so, now you please don't tell me this is not "imported problem" and "product of developement" ! encresing lust from this things - that is what real cuase of gang rape. and all the encreased possibilities and re-adjusted morals - that it is more ok nowdays certain dress code, behaviour etc - in public !

I was in Malaysia last month for visa run, The Star newspape had an article: 20+ brother repeatedly raped younger sister (his other brother followed him) - and confessed that watching porno movies motivated him for that. yeah, may be it is weak excuse for one's lust. but fact is fact - such thing DO encrease lust, and many of such things ARE imported from West.

even now, here in Thailand, comparing to farangs, how many percent of married Thai men would go in public with BG or even mia noi? even most of massage (sex) parlours which cater for Thai men - many of them are very private, even sort of hidden, and admitance only for "members". surely not as Patpong or Nana. oen would never even know what is going on there "behind the curtains" - because on the facade it is some other cover.

nope, gang rape is not exported from the West (did I say that?) - it has been since time immemorial in all societies and cultures. neither it is product of developement. prostitution is also "international".

however SOME reasons for gang rape (sexual violation, brutal violence because of base sexual desire or lust) - may be such as fashion (exposed nudity or some parts of body, term "sexy", even Valentine), life style, empasis on particular aspects of human existence as sense indulgence - these might be called imported problems. of coure internet porno or sexuality in movies, TV etc.

neither should we ignore the problems or social issues, nor overly complain or blame Thailand (or West too) for them. otherwise IF it is so bad - why not go to better place, as back home ?

I like a statement made by one person in other thread: "I have not chosen 3rd wolrd country over 1st wolrd - I've only exchanged one 2nd wolrd country for another". that I think tells this all.

[meom]

OMG... This is sick.. 30 boys doing it with 2 innocent ladies.. Get a life Boys !!!!

In comparison to this your average sexpat on the forum looks like a saint.

[aaaaaa]

You can't have it both ways. And - you can't draw the invalid comparisons that you just did - and get away with it.

Indo-Siam

thanks, you are right, my mistake.

what I meaned more exactly was more like brutality of crowd, or group of people driven by base urges.

definetely it was not justice at all.

the only appropriate comparison can be - that both are cases of vilolence and brutality done by crowd or group of people. I won't argue here was it justice or not done to that mentally ill guy, since it is another thred - although I agree with some particular your points.

[kat]

Ok, look, I get sick and tired of people making poor comparisons to the West simply to deflect from social problems that are quite specific. If you want to discuss Western problems, then go ahead and do so, but don't even attempt to imply that gang rape is an exported problem from to the West, or a product of development.

hmmm...

ok, what's according you is NOT deflection from social problems ?

are you sick (more? less? at all?) of people constantly complaining about this or that being bad in Thailand ? and surely they based their complains or whatever that is on their comparison to the West.

and please admit, often you do that too - compare many things here to same things in the West. or may be that is comparision with some imagined place, wished to be, not West ? or those comparisons are stronger ? I mean - how much different those comparisons are?

surely if people continue talking about all those things, using as criteria their sets of values and principles (Western) - comparison with same Western things and phenomenas would go on as well.

and trying to compare so - doesn't necessary means avoiding solutions of real issues or "deflecting" from social problems. may be for you it does, not for others. because by comparing some people try to figure out where are they now, how it is different and why....

as I can see, people are not trying to close their eyes or deny/ dismiss this and other social issues. they express their opinions and suggestions how to address those issues. but wast majority of us are not Thai citizen, we can't make real decisions for them; and even if we were - government here does (where it doesn't ?) decide what and how and to wich extent particular issue should be adressed, solution made and then again decision applied in real life (many governments make public show that steps are taken - are they realy taken?).

so, what difference it would make to constantly complain (based on Western values) ? only would

develope or encrease (if it has already developed) bitterness in someone, in my opinion.

what REAL feasible solution you might propose, say, about this issue of gang rape by teens ?

then, would this solution be accepted and executed by Thai government (who are busy squablling sharing larger piece of "pie", confused even in their own technics and methods) ?

then what's the point to talk about so much ? as someone said (I think in thread about Thai Face) that if problem can't be solved, then it is waste of time and often loss of face to even bring it up.

yes, you are right - attitudes, mentality - that has existed always or for a long time. sex, promiscuty, striptise or whatever, as erotic dances - nothing new in Asia. but it has been done with certain degree of concern about public in general, and those one's elders or younger (or little), or one's superior and respected - descretely, in private establishments. not as it become now.

like go to Jatujak market on weekend to see the "imported" arti- and superficial show-up which provokes lust. young Thais claim it has become Thai version of Japanese Harajuhu (or what is the correct name?). and it is during day time. night time - go SOOO many places, some biggest on Ratchada. we are talking about Thai teenagers, not farangs catering go-go bars.

Thai TV was showing many thematic programs about young 13-15 teen prostitutes on Rama 4 Rd, many of whom do this "for fun" - with motorsike drivers; make a competitions (who'll "do" how many men sooner, with taking phone numbers of those men as edicence) and bet for money.

there were always and in all countries prostitutes. but were they staying on the side-road here (again, open for public view) previously? was this not "imported" from the West ? may be in some particular disctricts / areas in the city - where usually low-class people lived and visited - but not on main streets and beside biggest hotels (as across Sheraton on Sukhumvit, or Landmark hotel).

was WHOLE INDUSTRY made of such trade - with huge establishments as "Poseidon" (how many floors there) and many other on Ratchada, or all those go-go bars (is it NOT imported term and kind of sex-selling "fun" place?). the concept of INDUSTRY itself - is imported from the West thing. as well as how this concept has been applied to this particular "trade" - Asian people won't be so clever to implement it.

is it not ?

sex-industry - what a term !

we can talk about many other things.

like webcam conferences or chat rooms - entire websites just for that, interview made with some of gals who ONLY stay in the rooms and do all this "performance" in front of camera - no study, no work, nothing else - only sleeping during day time so that to be rested for whole night session.

so, now you please don't tell me this is not "imported problem" and "product of developement" ! encresing lust from this things - that is what real cuase of gang rape. and all the encreased possibilities and re-adjusted morals - that it is more ok nowdays certain dress code, behaviour etc - in public !

I was in Malaysia last month for visa run, The Star newspape had an article: 20+ brother repeatedly raped younger sister (his other brother followed him) - and confessed that watching porno movies motivated him for that. yeah, may be it is weak excuse for one's lust. but fact is fact - such thing DO encrease lust, and many of such things ARE imported from West.

even now, here in Thailand, comparing to farangs, how many percent of married Thai men would go in public with BG or even mia noi? even most of massage (sex) parlours which cater for Thai men - many of them are very private, even sort of hidden, and admitance only for "members". surely not as Patpong or Nana. oen would never even know what is going on there "behind the curtains" - because on the facade it is some other cover.

nope, gang rape is not exported from the West (did I say that?) - it has been since time immemorial in all societies and cultures. neither it is product of developement. prostitution is also "international".

however SOME reasons for gang rape (sexual violation, brutal violence because of base sexual desire or lust) - may be such as fashion (exposed nudity or some parts of body, term "sexy", even Valentine), life style, empasis on particular aspects of human existence as sense indulgence - these might be called imported problems. of coure internet porno or sexuality in movies, TV etc.

neither should we ignore the problems or social issues, nor overly complain or blame Thailand (or West too) for them. otherwise IF it is so bad - why not go to better place, as back home ?

I like a statement made by one person in other thread: "I have not chosen 3rd wolrd country over 1st wolrd - I've only exchanged one 2nd wolrd country for another". that I think tells this all.

You have so many wrong assumptions about the concept of rape and even about making comparisons, I feel tired just thinking about responding to you. I think it would be mostly a waste of time anyway, so I'm going to try and make this quick.

First of all, I feel absolutely no need to censor myself (within the scope of Thai law, of course) on an international forum regarding discussions about Thailand, or anywhere. You may like to deal with unpleasant realities and disagreeable facts by telling people to go home, but that's your problem. Why don't you instead frequent Thai-only forums that are in agreement not to discuss anything unflattering about Thailand.

Secondly, making comparisons is the basis for all beginning research and scientific thought. I have no problem with critical discussion of any kind, including about the West, but these comparisons should be relevant to the issue at hand. No where did I talk about making decisions for anyone, but responded to your grossly erroneous comparisons that gang rape is a product of Western imports. It has long existed and is merely influenced by the newest technologies of the moment, like everything else on earth.

You know what, I just erased a whole long post in response to yours because I don't want to waste my time. There is really no where to begin here with you, because you are still in this medieval mindset that thinks clothing, porn and prostitution are the reasons for rape and gangrape.

Let me explain some very fast FACTS for you: porn, provocative clothing, and development exist in the developed Western world as well, but gang rapes are more widespread and frequent among communities and cultures that adhere to "traditional" attitudes about girls and women. It all comes down to the concepts of blame and accountablility. In Asia, it is still the norm to mostly blame women directly or indirectly for rape, which is why there is such a low report rate. It is more about advantage and weakness, and group mentalities, especially MALE groups, so if a woman is seen as making a bad judgement about place, time, and her own disadvantage, then this group mentality sees it as more her fault. Do you understand??????? An entire group of otherwise "respectable" males, can suddenly fall into this gang mentality because of these concepts, which are more prevelant here. I've looked at this extensively and could go on, but why don't you do your own work? You obviously know absolutely nothing, and I would pretty much have to clue you in as far back as the invention of the wheel, so I'm not going to even bother.

And your comment about industry is such complete nonsense, it doesn't really deserve an answer. There have been public exchanges of business for sex at least since Ayutthaya. Concubinage, female sex slavery, the sale and trade of daughters, and sex and commerce transactions are part of the earliest and most fundamental aspects of Thai/SEA/Asian history.

Somehow, you seem to think that because Asian prostitution is more hidden, it is less of a contributor to wider social ills than what you see as Western influence. Gangrape has been a regular practice here in Southeast Asia WAY before modern development. There was even a Thai movie made about one disabled woman that was raped by a mob 20-30 years ago. Do you think it is acceptable that a male mob mentality will rule over the rights of outnumbered and vulnerable girls? Do you think it is acceptable that young girls are so eroticized and commodified, that it is acceptable for men to consume the bodies of underage girls easily within these "private" Asian establishments, by class groups of all levels, including highly-placed - and I mean the top - people of this society? Do you know why this is becoming less acceptable, and more hidden now? - because of political pressure from the West, that's why. There is so much more I could say here, but like I said, waste of time.

I am not saying that Western history is pure as the driven snow. But on this thread, we were discussing a gang rape here in Bangkok, until you tried to dismiss it and overgeneralize it as a byproduct of exports, which it most definitely is not.

*edit typos

[meom]

I think Kat is right; even among the BG fraternity certain let's say asian nationalities used to or maybe still have a bad reputation. Once in the room more often than not the punter's friends unexpectedly showed up in order to participate in the "fun", at the BG's expense ofcourse, illustrating the same gang behaviour.

[leisurely]

I am horrified. I haven't read all the posts, don't have time, but the idea of 30 men raping two women is so nauseating. I think the worst thing I read was the polythene bags used as condoms. Poor girls would have been scourged inside

I am not a religious person, but I truly hope they get there just deserts in this life or the next. This preferably and by the relations of the two vicitims

[English Noodles]

Let's get something straight.

You can't have it both ways. And - you can't draw the invalid comparisons that you just did - and get away with it. The 30 rapists were parallels of the shrine destroyer - not the two city employees who took him down. It was mob predation - not mob justice. If you can't see the difference, then you have some serious perception problems.

Indo-Siam

Hi Steve, you have also drawn invalid comparisons, you can't just say that this is a case of simple mob predation and the other is mob retaliation, you actually have to have more of an understanding of the case and people involved.

When it comes to gang or group rape and or a lynch mob mentality there are alot more factors and group dynamics that come in to play, i.e. power-reassurance, power assertive, anger retaliatory and anger excitation.

Cheers. Noodles.

I also find it sad that a case such as this is simpy used by some people to have a faceless argument on an internet forum.

[kat]

I think Kat is right; even among the BG fraternity certain let's say asian nationalities used to or maybe still have a bad reputation. Once in the room more often than not the punter's friends unexpectedly showed up in order to participate in the "fun", at the BG's expense ofcourse, illustrating the same gang behaviour.

Thanks Meom. Rape happens everywhere, but the nature, method, and cultural response to rape and the concept of power/powerlessness are completely different. There are a lot more single predatory and psychotic rapists in the West, but there is no question that gang rape is more prevelant and more acceptable here.

I am horrified. I haven't read all the posts, don't have time, but the idea of 30 men raping two women is so nauseating. I think the worst thing I read was the polythene bags used as condoms. Poor girls would have been scourged inside

I am not a religious person, but I truly hope they get there just deserts in this life or the next. This preferably and by the relations of the two vicitims

Yes, I think one woman was reported as unconscious.

[thaibebop]

Just heard in the news this evening that the Yale Lacross team is under investigation, for a gang rape of an exotic dancer. They have all had to give samples of DNA and are barred from competing until the results have been announced.

It might be sad to say, but take comfort in knowing that Thailand is not a lawless place where evil things happen to good people, that's everywhere.

[TokyoT]

Just heard in the news this evening that the Yale Lacross team is under investigation, for a gang rape of an exotic dancer. They have all had to give samples of DNA and are barred from competing until the results have been announced.

It might be sad to say, but take comfort in knowing that Thailand is not a lawless place where evil things happen to good people, that's everywhere.

First let me state that rape of any kind is certainly not acceptable, be it by one person or one hundred people.

But the case you refer (team is actually Duke’s Lacrosse team not Yale), is hardly an equal comparison. The lacrosse team case 46 men were DNA tested, looking for the THREE members of the team who committed the rape.

From AP:

“The dancer, a student at North Carolina Central University, told police she was pulled into a bathroom, beaten, choked, and raped by three men.”

While the Thai case appears to indicate 30 men raped these 14/15-year-old girls. TEN times as many perpetrators. In the lacrosse case DNA testing is being conducted and the chances of the perpetrators being caught are not too bad. While I doubt any DNA testing will be conducted on the case here in Thailand even though there appears to be several people who could help to ID some of the perpetrators (such as the girl who said she was not raped because of her boyfriends connections to the perpetrators).

[kat]

... but take comfort in knowing that Thailand is not a lawless place where evil things happen to good people, that's everywhere.

I agree that bad things happen to good people everywhere, but I disagree that Thailand is not a lawless place. I also know for a fact that the view and attitudes towards rape and gang rape in particular, are much different in SEA, by law, occurrence, frequency, and attitudes.

And I have lived here for more than 3 years, and specifically researched gender violence and law in the region. Do you know that gang rape has become a sport among young, college-educated Cambodian men who openly admit to engaging in it? It has taken on a name, like a sport: bauk.

There is so much that we either do not know, or will take a lifetime to know, because of the culture of shame and silence that women are reared to uphold here.

[thaibebop]

Just heard in the news this evening that the Yale Lacross team is under investigation, for a gang rape of an exotic dancer. They have all had to give samples of DNA and are barred from competing until the results have been announced.

It might be sad to say, but take comfort in knowing that Thailand is not a lawless place where evil things happen to good people, that's everywhere.

First let me state that rape of any kind is certainly not acceptable, be it by one person or one hundred people.

But the case you refer (team is actually Duke’s Lacrosse team not Yale Yes, my bad. I realized my mistake much after I posted it, sorry.), is hardly an equal comparison. The lacrosse team case 46 men were DNA tested, looking for the THREE members of the team who committed the rape.

I think it is a comparison because it's the same behavior. The rest is just details.

From AP:

“The dancer, a student at North Carolina Central University, told police she was pulled into a bathroom, beaten, choked, and raped by three men.”

While the Thai case appears to indicate 30 men raped these 14/15-year-old girls. TEN times as many perpetrators. In the lacrosse case DNA testing is being conducted and the chances of the perpetrators being caught are not too bad. While I doubt any DNA testing will be conducted on the case here in Thailand even though there appears to be several people who could help to ID some of the perpetrators (such as the girl who said she was not raped because of her boyfriends connections to the perpetrators).

How would you expect westetrn police to locate all these men? That's 30 unknown men. How could the Thai police isolate DNA samples from the crime scene? I know it would be hard for western police to do the same.

... but take comfort in knowing that Thailand is not a lawless place where evil things happen to good people, that's everywhere.

I agree that bad things happen to good people everywhere, but I disagree that Thailand is not a lawless place. I also know for a fact that the view and attitudes towards rape and gang rape in particular, are much different in SEA, by law, occurrence, frequency, and attitud

And I have lived here for more than 3 years, and specifically researched gender violence and law in the region. Do you know that gang rape has become a sport among young, college-educated Cambodian men who openly admit to engaging in it? It has taken on a name, like a sport: bauk.

There is so much that we either do not know, or will take a lifetime to know, because of the culture of shame and silence that women are reared to uphold here.

Okay, so you are saying that Thailand is a lawless place where women are raped for sport and you have lived there for three years, but you feel safe there as well? Think about what you are saying. Yes, rape is a problem in Asia. It's a problem everywhere. Just because some sick people come up with a name for it doesn't change the nature of it. When a white guy rapes, it's sport as well is it not?

I think I know you're point Kat, but you fail to grasp mine. If I have misunderstood you please forgive me. People want to look down on Thailand and it's people because of this. I am showing that this behavior isn't special to S.E.A.

[Ulysses G.]

There is nothing manly about rape.

A bunch of closet cases trying pretend that they are not!

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

My opinion, Rape is Rape and it is no more or less prevelant in members of different races or cultures as it is pepole of similar socio-economic stature. And it's dead wrong, and needs to be taken more seriously than it is. The rapist should go to jail for a VERY long time and in the even more vile cases where woman lie about getting raped just to get money from someone they should get locked up as well. It's not something to play with.

One good thing about Thailand atleast they are trying to raise awareness of this vile crime. Anyone rember a movie a couple years back called "Prompreran"??? about this kinda retarted chick the whole town gang raped then choked to death, then left on the train tracks to be cut in half.

They got beef from the community because it was in the 70's and they wanted to keep it covered up and forggoten about. They even had to change the name of it or something because the community was so adament in covering it up.