Wife's Uk Visa Application - Refused

[Keith1]

Hello all,

My wife received back her application for a UK Settlement Visa and was denied entry on the grounds that we did not meet the financial criteria for her application because part of our income from Thailand is from a 'family-run' business, and by all accounts, this cannot be considered as income when applying for the visa.

The story so far: I returned to the UK a few weeks ago after 3 years working overseas. At present I am in the process of looking for work, therefore we applied for the visa on the grounds of having an income in Thailand exceeding £18,600 a year so at least, we thought we were covered on the issue. To cut a long story short, I have funds in the UK exceeding the 18,600 requirement, however, because they are not in a bank account, and instead a share account they cannot be considered income. Also, as stipulated by the embassy, the money has to be in a bank account for 6 months prior to the application and this was not possible due to the timing of the application.

Next question for you folks is. Where do we go from here?? By appealing the decision, I guess we are on a hiding to nowhere. To me, it's all black and white. We have the funds, but they are not in the account the embassy wants to see them in. On another note, even if I started work next week, I would need to be in employment for 6 months before my earning could be taken in to account as well.

I am at my wit's end here. I have rented a property and applied for my 7 yr old daughter's new school in the UK. This really is turning into a nightmare, as this means it will be at least 6 months (7 with the wait after the application) before we can get a visa if we transferred the money over into a bank account this week. As far as I can see, the only other option would be another type of visa, but the restrictions on limited stay and renewal of this visa may be troublesome when the limited time of the visa expires.

Any assistance will be a great help. Also, thanks in advance for all of your comments!

Cheers

[ThaiVisaExpress]

The first thing you should do is post your refusal notice here so that we can see why the application was refused ( delete personal data, such as names ). Deriving an income from a "family run" business is not, in itself, a reason for a visa refusal. It may be, for instance, that you weren't paying tax on your income, etc, and that would possibly lead to refusal as you must be able to show that your income, even overseas, is legally earned, etc.

You say that you were earning above the required threshold, but I assume you didn't "evidence" that, or couldn't evidence it ? If you can do so, then you might be able to win any appeal.

You say that you have "funds". if you cannot show the required income of 18,600 GBP, then you need to show 62,500 GBP in savings. It has to be under your control for at least 6 months (which it will have been if it is in shares in your name), but it also has to be "immediately available" ( which it wasn't, as you didn't have immediate access to it).

So, you can switch your savings to an account where you have access to it. Or, take employment, with an income of 18,600 GBP or more, for 6 at least months, after which you can apply for your wife's visa. The waiting time will be more than the 7 months you calculate, more like 8 - 10 months in all. The outcome of any appeal will depend on what evidence you provided with the application, of course.

Tony M

Edited May 24, 2013 by ThaiVisaExpress

[Keith1]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your reply to my post!

The application has been refused on the grounds of the lack of funds to support the application, as we will require an additional £28,500 cash in the bank to support her application. The funds I have here which are not in my bank account is approximately £18,000 therefore, this is not sufficient to meet this requirement, and besides, the cash would have to be transferred into a bank account and remain there for 6 months if it was sufficient to support the application. We have property we own with a monthly rental income of 600,000 baht p.a. and this has been taken into consideration, however income from a family-run business in Thailand cannot be included as income for the application.

Unfortunately, in this case I have used the bulk of my income over the past 3 years to pay down the loan for our second property and used the cash from the recent sale of our house to pay off the remainder of the debt to clear the loan and allow for additional funds to support our lifestyle in the UK, however, as stated in the Notice of Refusal for my wife's application, this income is not sufficient alone without an additional £28,500 in the bank. In hindsight, it would've been better to hold cash in the bank over the past 18 months to support the application instead of paying down the loan, but at the same time, that was before we decided to move back to the UK.

I have attached a copy of the Refusal of Entry Clearance letter we received from the visa department.

At this stage I am seeking information on what other options we have for a visa to the UK. One of those options is for her to come to the UK with a tourist visa, however the limitations after the visa expires will no doubt be presented to us after the 6 month validity expires. To my knowledge, it will be 6 months before she can apply for any other visa. You comments are most welcome on the possibilities as well.

Thanks

Keith

IMG_20130524_0001.pdf

[bobrussell]

Am I reading a little too much into the wording?

It suggests that the income from the family business is 'the applicants income' not the sponsors and therefore not eligible for consideration.

Is the family income going to continue despite the applicants absence? If so it is not just employment income, just income. If the rent and this income goes into a joint account and will continue I am struggling to see why there was a rejection.

The new rules are a complete mystery to me so I am (sadly) asking questions rather than answering!

Edited May 24, 2013 by bobrussell

[ThaiVisaExpress]

To answer bobrussell, the income must be the sponsor's income, not anyone else's, to be taken into consideration. I assume that the sponsor cannot show this. The income can go into a personal bank account or even a joint account, but it must be evidenced as the sponsor's income, and not a joint income. Even if the ECO had accepted the claimed income, it is not possible to combine income from self-employment with savings to meet the financial requirement. The ECO didn't use that refusal reason !

For Keith1, there is no reason why your wife cannot apply for a visit visa to be with you while you are in the UK working to meet the financial requirement. She will, however, have to show the ECO that she intends to leave the UK at the end of any visit, and that might be difficult after having had a settlement visa refused so recently. Difficult, but not necessarily impossible. Paul at Thai Visa Express has successfully applied for visas in similar circumstances.

That said, I'm not clear about the refusal notice where it says that you haven't held your savings continuously for 6 months. What does that mean ? If the funds are in a share account, and under your control ( as I said in my earlier post) for at least 6 months, it might be possible to meet the requirement by transferring them into a current account now, and making them immediately available. You will then meet the requirement immediately, and can apply again straight away.

Tony M

[Keith1]

Am I reading a little too much into the wording?

It suggests that the income from the family business is 'the applicants income' not the sponsors and therefore not eligible for consideration.

Is the family income going to continue despite the applicants absence? If so it is not just employment income, just income. If the rent and this income goes into a joint account and will continue I am struggling to see why there was a rejection.

The new rules are a complete mystery to me so I am (sadly) asking questions rather than answering!

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply. Personally, I can't see where the problem lies here. The stipulation of the requirement stated under section 3.1.2 of Meeting the Financial Requirement section states: Income and cash savings must be in the name of the applicant, their partner or jointly. This was the basis for the application and not my income. However, the application has been declined on the basis of the second income coming a family business.

Thanks

Keith

[Keith1]

To answer bobrussell, the income must be the sponsor's income, not anyone else's, to be taken into consideration. I assume that the sponsor cannot show this. The income can go into a personal bank account or even a joint account, but it must be evidenced as the sponsor's income, and not a joint income. Even if the ECO had accepted the claimed income, it is not possible to combine income from self-employment with savings to meet the financial requirement. The ECO didn't use that refusal reason !

For Keith1, there is no reason why your wife cannot apply for a visit visa to be with you while you are in the UK working to meet the financial requirement. She will, however, have to show the ECO that she intends to leave the UK at the end of any visit, and that might be difficult after having had a settlement visa refused so recently. Difficult, but not necessarily impossible. Paul at Thai Visa Express has successfully applied for visas in similar circumstances.

That said, I'm not clear about the refusal notice where it says that you haven't held your savings continuously for 6 months. What does that mean ? If the funds are in a share account, and under your control ( as I said in my earlier post) for at least 6 months, it might be possible to meet the requirement by transferring them into a current account now, and making them immediately available. You will then meet the requirement immediately, and can apply again straight away.

Tony M

After a lot of thought, I think it will be best to apply for a visitor's visa for my spouse while I am working to meet the financial requirements over the next few months, though as you said in your reply, that it may be difficult because of being recently refused a settlement visa.

The problem I am concerned about is be the amount of time between the end of a visitor's visa and the allowable time before a new application can be made after we have already received a 6 month visitor's visa. Nothing appears to be straightforward as you think. Add to that the complications of already being refused a visa as well.

Thanks again...

Keith

[Tony M]

Am I reading a little too much into the wording?

It suggests that the income from the family business is 'the applicants income' not the sponsors and therefore not eligible for consideration.

Is the family income going to continue despite the applicants absence? If so it is not just employment income, just income. If the rent and this income goes into a joint account and will continue I am struggling to see why there was a rejection.

The new rules are a complete mystery to me so I am (sadly) asking questions rather than answering!

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply. Personally, I can't see where the problem lies here. The stipulation of the requirement stated under section 3.1.2 of Meeting the Financial Requirement section states: Income and cash savings must be in the name of the applicant, their partner or jointly. This was the basis for the application and not my income. However, the application has been declined on the basis of the second income coming a family business.

Thanks

Keith

The document you are talking about is guidance only. It is not the immigration rules Appendix FM-SE, which is what you should be referring to. This is from the immigration rules:

( c ) The employment income of an applicant will only be taken into account if they are in the UK, aged 18 years or over and working legally, and prospective employment income will not be taken into account (except that of an applicant's partner or parent's partner who is returning to employment or self-employment in the UK at paragraphs E-ECP.3.2.(a) and E-ECC.2.2.(a) of Appendix FM).

Generally, the ECO will expect your wife to be back in Thailand for around 6 months, after a 6 month visit to the UK, before she applies again. This is not written in law, but ECO's have guidance which says that if they suspect that an applicant is using visit visas to get around the settlement requirements, then the visit visa should be refused

Edited May 24, 2013 by Tony M

[Keith1]

Am I reading a little too much into the wording?

It suggests that the income from the family business is 'the applicants income' not the sponsors and therefore not eligible for consideration.

Is the family income going to continue despite the applicants absence? If so it is not just employment income, just income. If the rent and this income goes into a joint account and will continue I am struggling to see why there was a rejection.

The new rules are a complete mystery to me so I am (sadly) asking questions rather than answering!Personally, I can't see where the problem lies here. The stipulation of the requirement stated under section 3.1.2 of Meeting the Financial Requirement section states: Income and cash savings must be in the name of the applicant, their partner or jointly. This was the basis for the application and not my income. However, the application has been declined on the basis of the second income coming a family business.

Thanks

Keith

The document you are talking about is guidance only. It is not the immigration rules Appendix FM-SE, which is what you should be referring to. This is from the immigration rules:

( c ) The employment income of an applicant will only be taken into account if they are in the UK, aged 18 years or over and working legally, and prospective employment income will not be taken into account (except that of an applicant's partner or parent's partner who is returning to employment or self-employment in the UK at paragraphs E-ECP.3.2.(a) and E-ECC.2.2.(a) of Appendix FM).

Generally, the ECO will expect your wife to be back in Thailand for around 6 months, after a 6 month visit to the UK, before she applies again. This is not written in law, but ECO's have guidance which says that if they suspect that an applicant is using visit visas to get around the settlement requirements, then the visit visa should be refused

Thanks again for your replies...!

I suppose another option we have is to use the proceeds from the sale of our house - this will be transferred over at the end of this month to meet the financial criteria. Following the sale, we will then have 3 million Baht to fix in a bank account for 6 months. At the current exchange rate this is £68,000, therefore, this alone should meet the financial criteria of the application?? Previously, we were going to use this cash to pay off the loan on the property we rent out, however, the rent will be used to address the loan payments and will have surplus cash to bank for a rainy day, so to speak.

My question is: Do you think this will be sufficient and/or do you think this will complicate the situation due to the nature and records of the previous application? Personally, I don't think we are doing anything wrong, and merely adjusting our finances to comply with the visa criteria.

Gentlemen, thanks again for all your help and assistance, thus so far!

Regards

Keith

[Tony M]

You can still use the rental income towards meeting the requirement, so you don't need all of the equity from the property sale. And you can combine the income from property rental with savings to meet the requirement.

Don't worry about the current refusal. As long as you meet the financial requirement when you next apply, the current reasons for refusal don't mean anything.

Be careful about exchange rates. The UKBA calculate exchange rates from one Forex only - oanda. com

[Keith1]

You can still use the rental income towards meeting the requirement, so you don't need all of the equity from the property sale. And you can combine the income from property rental with savings to meet the requirement.

Don't worry about the current refusal. As long as you meet the financial requirement when you next apply, the current reasons for refusal don't mean anything.

Be careful about exchange rates. The UKBA calculate exchange rates from one Forex only - oanda. com

Thanks, Tony. I very much appreciate your help, it's been a headache to say the least. The only problem I have now, is the amount of time we will have to wait before we can apply. Basically, at the minimum, we will be looking at 7-9 months before this can be sorted. In the meantime my daughter will be coming over to the UK.

Cheers!

[MrZM]

Last year my wife was refused a settlement visa.

2 weeks later after discussing all options with ones with knowledge, knowing I didn't want to be separated from my wife and son, I thought f^## it, what's the worse that could happen, so we applied for a 6 month general visit visa.

About a week into the application I was called by the embassy, and was asked questions for around 20 minutes.

The day after I received an email stating a decision has been made on the visa and will be ready to collect.

The visa was issued for my wife.

Regardless of wether your settlement visa was refused. The big decision so I'm led to believe on a general visit or family visit visa is "the reason to return".

Thanks for help from Thai Visa Express with writing a letter to the ECO. The help was much appreciated.

Thank you for reading

[Keith1]

Last year my wife was refused a settlement visa.

2 weeks later after discussing all options with ones with knowledge, knowing I didn't want to be separated from my wife and son, I thought f^## it, what's the worse that could happen, so we applied for a 6 month general visit visa.

About a week into the application I was called by the embassy, and was asked questions for around 20 minutes.

The day after I received an email stating a decision has been made on the visa and will be ready to collect.

The visa was issued for my wife.

Regardless of wether your settlement visa was refused. The big decision so I'm led to believe on a general visit or family visit visa is "the reason to return".

Thanks for help from Thai Visa Express with writing a letter to the ECO. The help was much appreciated.

Thank you for reading

ZM,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Can I ask what the situation was with your wife's Visitor's Visa after it expired? Was there a time limit before you could apply for your Settlement Visa again or could you lodge the application at any during which you already had a visa to visit? I am just not sure how this works.

Basically, we will put 3 million Baht in the bank and then then apply for a Visitor's Visa. All being well, we will be able to apply for settlement again before or soon after the Visitor's Visa expires.

I have booked my flight back to Bangkok for next week. I will be stopping for a week and returning with my daughter. All being well I will have all the information I need and we should be able to get things rolling with the Visitor's Visa later next week.

A pain, but this is what needs to be done.

Thanks a lot...

Keith

[MrZM]

Last year my wife was refused a settlement visa.

2 weeks later after discussing all options with ones with knowledge, knowing I didn't want to be separated from my wife and son, I thought f^## it, what's the worse that could happen, so we applied for a 6 month general visit visa.

About a week into the application I was called by the embassy, and was asked questions for around 20 minutes.

The day after I received an email stating a decision has been made on the visa and will be ready to collect.

The visa was issued for my wife.

Regardless of wether your settlement visa was refused. The big decision so I'm led to believe on a general visit or family visit visa is "the reason to return".

Thanks for help from Thai Visa Express with writing a letter to the ECO. The help was much appreciated.

Thank you for reading

ZM,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Can I ask what the situation was with your wife's Visitor's Visa after it expired? Was there a time limit before you could apply for your Settlement Visa again or could you lodge the application at any during which you already had a visa to visit? I am just not sure how this works.

Basically, we will put 3 million Baht in the bank and then then apply for a Visitor's Visa. All being well, we will be able to apply for settlement again before or soon after the Visitor's Visa expires.

I have booked my flight back to Bangkok for next week. I will be stopping for a week and returning with my daughter. All being well I will have all the information I need and we should be able to get things rolling with the Visitor's Visa later next week.

A pain, but this is what needs to be done.

Thanks a lot...

Keith

Hi Keith,

I really think you should ask an experienced agent for advice before you proceed.

We applied last month for a settlement visa basically the day after I had received my 6th month pay slip.

Your wife will have to return to Thailand to Apply for the settlement visa if she is issued a tourist visa.

Are you planning to take your daughter out of Thailand before your wife applies/issued for a visitors visa? I don't believe you should separate your daughter from her mother, if your wife is refused the visa, then what happens?

Don't rush into a decision, you have a family to take care of!

[Keith1]

Last year my wife was refused a settlement visa.

2 weeks later after discussing all options with ones with knowledge, knowing I didn't want to be separated from my wife and son, I thought f^## it, what's the worse that could happen, so we applied for a 6 month general visit visa.

About a week into the application I was called by the embassy, and was asked questions for around 20 minutes.

The day after I received an email stating a decision has been made on the visa and will be ready to collect.

The visa was issued for my wife.

Regardless of wether your settlement visa was refused. The big decision so I'm led to believe on a general visit or family visit visa is "the reason to return".

Thanks for help from Thai Visa Express with writing a letter to the ECO. The help was much appreciated.

Thank you for reading

ZM,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Can I ask what the situation was with your wife's Visitor's Visa after it expired? Was there a time limit before you could apply for your Settlement Visa again or could you lodge the application at any during which you already had a visa to visit? I am just not sure how this works.

Basically, we will put 3 million Baht in the bank and then then apply for a Visitor's Visa. All being well, we will be able to apply for settlement again before or soon after the Visitor's Visa expires.

I have booked my flight back to Bangkok for next week. I will be stopping for a week and returning with my daughter. All being well I will have all the information I need and we should be able to get things rolling with the Visitor's Visa later next week.

A pain, but this is what needs to be done.

Thanks a lot...

Keith

Hi Keith,

I really think you should ask an experienced agent for advice before you proceed.

We applied last month for a settlement visa basically the day after I had received my 6th month pay slip.

Your wife will have to return to Thailand to Apply for the settlement visa if she is issued a tourist visa.

Are you planning to take your daughter out of Thailand before your wife applies/issued for a visitors visa? I don't believe you should separate your daughter from her mother, if your wife is refused the visa, then what happens?

Don't rush into a decision, you have a family to take care of!

ZM,

All being well, we will manage to get the visitor's visa for my wife within the next 2-3 weeks. In the meantime I will be taking my daughter to spend time with her relatives in the UK. It's been 3 years since her last visit. There's plenty of space and fresh air where I live. It's also a great environment for her to enjoy time with her relatives.

The transfer/sale of our house goes through next, so after that it will be quite difficult to give her the same freedom when she moves into a relatives house in Bangkok. It's a hard one to deal with, but I think we're making the right decision. Hopefully, things will go as planned with the visitor's visa and this will all be behind us before too long.

Thanks

Keith