Who's Who At The Oz Embassy

[Chris Lawrence]

I have read some recent topics by people at the begining and in the middle of applications for spousal visa. My experience is that there has some great information sharing going on from many experienced Auusies.

One of the greatest shortcomings I found at DIMA in Bangkok was getting to the person who could give direction as to how ur application is proceeding. Where is it up to in the long or short process in their system.

U don't have to be a brain surgeon to work this out. So why is it difficult for the case officers to give some direction.

My experience working in both the commercial and community based fields makes me think that the Dept is faking in part the whole process of the visa application process. I am more than aware that our country needs protection against people that don't deserve the right to enter our country. But when you are dealing with the bleeding obvious, why all the problems. If you need 3 weeks to investergat a situation say u need 3 weeks. Don't forget these applicants are becoming frail by the week when nothing is given.

The Dept here in Bangkok, I believes lacks a certian amount of compassion and latitude when dealing with applications.

What I am proposing is to provide the names of the senior people and ways of dealing with their system.

Rachael Faulkner is in the Overseas Resources & Liaison Section Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs Canberra, her boss is Ross Greenwood; this is the man I believe makes the decisions for Bangkok. Rob Chambers, is the Senior Migration Officer, and Damien Kilner, the new PMO in Bangkok; both these gentleman can be contacted by the DIMA email service. Just nominate them as the person ur email should go to.

Rob Vlazlovski is the Vice Consul at the embassy and is a very helpful man for passports. We used this section for our sons passport. This section was like a breath of fresh air after dealing with DIMA Bangkok. Rob cannot help with DIMA matters.

I am sorry to offend anyone here but the case officers I dealt with were like a bad Nurse Ratchet from One Flew over the Cookoo's Nest. Both I was told had 11 years and 23 years experience. Their gratest downfall was lack of communiction. I won't go into the 1st one's behaviour but I lodged 7 complaints against her and the way she dealt with the application. After 1 month I am still waiting to here back from the new PMO.

Empowerment is in part about knowledge and how to use the political system. Not all applications are the same, but we still deserve the right to answers. The Dept is not here to act as a counsellor, but they have an obligation to treat people with dignity and in a humane way. I never had the run around I got from Bangkok that was offered in Australia. I have nothing unpleasant to say about the service in Australia; they were way ahead in dealing with the frailities of a human being. Unfortunatly it appears we need to deal with these people here for this process.

I hope that this topic can help someone, because I would not have hesitated to speak to the senior person when my emails were ignored.

And remeber, letters to the minister, opposition leader, Prime Minister, local member can all push a stale application ahead.

[Khutan]

The simple answer is to take what I have done. Ignore the Australian Embassy in Bangkok, and spend your money in another country. I am an Australian, and every time I hear of people speaking of that place (Australian Embassy) I am ashamed to be Australian.

Simply speaking a holiday in Thailand is far better value than one in Australia will ever be. Ask a few simple questions what is a litre of fuel in Australia, how much is a beer, a pack of smokes or even just a simple meal. Most of the stuff you would see in Australia, you can get in Thailand at a fraction of the price.

Its just too difficult to bother dealing with them. Obviously by the attitude of the people there, Australia has too many tourists and doesn't need any more.

That is why I am spending a few thousand $$$ on a holiday in Phuket and not in Australia.

So in summary, good luck dealing with them, as over the years, the customer experience I have had with them leads a great deal to be desired.

I think the really sad thing is no matter what the party is in Canberra, the powers in the Embassy in Bangkok, sadly, will remain the same.

[PaulPerth]

You have provided some great information and insight Chris.

I did phone Immigration in Oz about a month ago when we were thinking of applying for a tourist visa whilst waiting for the SV to be processed. The young guy who answered my call told me that allowing travel whilst the visa is being processed was purely up to the discretion of the case officer. He also told me that Thailand is a "high risk" country and that an SV will normally take a minimum of 6 months to process. I disputed this and told him that we belong to certain web forums and are in contact with a large community involved with gaining SV's and the process has been taking between 2 and 4 months as the norm. He seemed quite surprised.

Getting consistent infromation has been almost impossible and my wife and I find oursleves making up many reasons and scenarios why our visa application is now at the three and a half month mark.

I have been employed by the same company for 12 years on a salary twice the national average. I own my own house and am more than capable of supporting my new wife and her son. My wife has been employed by the Thai Education Department for the past 10 years and has travelled abroad to Europe and Australia for her vocation. We met in May 2004. Since then she has visited me three times in Perth and I have visited her four times. The evidence we have provided about our relationship certainly does spell out the obvious, THIS IS THE REAL THING!

My wife was very thorough with the application preparation and provided all required documents, medical, police clearance, etc, up front, all translated using a certified translator even though she was quite capable of doing them herself. We applied on December 12. At the interview, the CO hardly spoke to me at all. I waited outside for about an hour whilst she interviewed my wife.

All we can say to each other now is "can't they see we are genuine, why is it taking so long?"

I will be taking your advise and writing/calling to try and get more information as I am perplexed as to why it should take so long.

Many thanks

Paul

[Chris Lawrence]

Paul, why cant there be a certian amount of transparencey with the Dept. Why cant there be some form of civil correspondence from these people.

You sound as though you are nearly there. But a good push is what these people need every now and then.

When I went to pick up the visa for my wife the case officer handling the matter did not even say congraulations. Not that I expect it. But it just goes to show the mind set of the people dealing with these matters. But I did mention in my letter to the Prime Minister that she did not reply to my 2 emails; one a month old and one 1 week old.

What I have learnt in dealing with these people is to write what I want to say and email it. I then ask that they email me back. In todays techno world this is the best way to contact me and I say this in the email. But I then have a record of what is being dicussed. If they ring me I would reply with an email, outlining the dicussion and follow up they may need to attend to or I would do. This supply of emails to the Prime Minister, the DIMA Minister, Opp Leader, Opp Spokesperson for DIMA and local member showed that the case officers were not responding to simple requests.

U need to read there client service charter to see what they should be doing. its on the web site for DIMA and I think about 16 pages. One simple thing that happened to me at the begining of this process was that I rang DIMA Bangkok spoke to 2 unidentifyed DIMA Officers both Thai women. There charter states that every officer must identjfy themselves. They then told me to go to an Immig specialist to do the application, then said to go to the application centre to lodge it. My right was to also lodge it at the embassy!

Somtimes the simple things that are said may not be noted or remebered. These things I don't forget. When I read the service charter I began to show evidence of the hardship that DIMA was putting us thru. I had a few other things happen to us, but. The main thing is that when u have reached the point where u have been fair and reasonable and talked it over with someone then it is time to get unreasonable. The one thing that is hated by all career public servants is the ministerial letter. If they don't give a satisfactory reply to the minister then it follows them, forever.

These are simple but effective tools that u can use to deal with these people. I don't kiss arse and these people were never going to be life long friends. But they are people who are doing a job and deserve respect. But respect is a two way street. When someone is disrespectful or arrogant; to hard to deal with. Why put up with them, speak to their boss.

I still believe we are customers in this service process. I can't see how u would call us anything else. We just need some good old fashioned service.

Sometimes people need to know they have toes.

Kind regards

[chareehusbee]

But when you are dealing with the bleeding obvious, why all the problems. If you need 3 weeks to investergat a situation say u need 3 weeks. Don't forget these applicants are becoming frail by the week when nothing is given.

The Dept here in Bangkok, I believes lacks a certian amount of compassion and latitude when dealing with applications.

I have to agree with Chris here. That was the basis of my correspondence with the Embassy. I believe the Immi Dept knows that there are issues in the Embassy. If you recall Chris's letter received from Rachael Faulkner there is testament to awareness of the issues. But it may just be a brush-off too, as we're dealing with politicians here, not normal folks with souls.

Rachael Faulkner is in the Overseas Resources & Liaison Section Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs Canberra, her boss is Ross Greenwood; this is the man I believe makes the decisions for Bangkok. Rob Chambers, is the Senior Migration Officer, and Damien Kilner, the new PMO in Bangkok; both these gentleman can be contacted by the DIMA email service. Just nominate them as the person ur email should go to.

Not sure about that. In my communications with Rob, he told me that he was the one who would make a decision on our app. I reckon that all the Aussie MOs make decisions on whatever app's have been assigned to them. Or do you mean that Ross makes decisions for the Embassy from Canberra?

Either way, I didn't hear diddlysquat from them for 3.5 months, and it was only after sending a letter that things started happening. Within 3 weeks we had the visa. So I can only assume that Canberra put some fire under their butts to do something.

It is pretty bloody lame imho that you have to make a fuss to get any sort of decent action. But then again "the squeaky wheel gets the oil."

And remeber, letters to the minister, opposition leader, Prime Minister, local member can all push a stale application ahead.

The Thai way is to bow down to people of higher stature and not make a fuss, so that's probably partly to blame with their laxness at the Embassy in BKK. I haven't dealt with many other Embassies tho, so it's hard to compare. But I don't recall having any kinds of issues with the Oz Embassy in Washington DC. In fact I recall that being a pleasurable experience, good customer service and compassion. So I reckon the environment and way of life plays a role in it.

Once again, only my 2c.

Edited March 25, 2006 by chareehusbee

[Pink Mist]

my experience trying to get a visa for niece, the emails to Gemma Jackson

I have been trying to contact Ms Jackson via telephone on a regular basis

since the 4th of July.

For two weeks I got a message that she would be out of the office until the

12th of July and the message changed to an "away from desk but leave number

and will return your call".

I called regularly until the 26th of July, when I had to return home, and

still hadn't received a reply.

My question, is there someone in authority that I discuss a visa refusal

decision with, as Ms Jackson seems unavailable?

the reply

Dear Mr blank

Thank you for your emessage below.

If you provide your phone details I will contact you.

Regards

Gemma Jackson

Senior Migration Officer

Australian Embassy Bangkok

Tel: 02 287 2680

Fax: 02 213 1177

For further information on migration matters please access the following

websites:

www.immi.gov.au

www.austembassy.or.th

needless to say I supplied the phone details via email and received this reply

I will be out of the office starting 03/08/2004 and will not return until

09/08/2004.

I will respond to your message when I return on Monday 9 August 2004 - for

urgent enquiries please contact Mr Andrew Tarte

I rang Mr Tarte and in case you havn't guessed he too was unavailable, it's getting a bit like Fawlty Towers by this stage.

I emailed Ms Jackson again and to date have never received a reply.

I have allways wondered if it was some sort of payback by DIMA in BKK for the pressure exerted by my local MP to obtain my wife's Spouse visa.

Will se what happens when we apply for Daughter in Law and Grandaughter TV next year.

[udon]

All good info.

Thanks

[Mighty Mouse]

I can understand that some SV applicants become frustrated with the length of time taken before a decision is made on their application.

Prior to security measures being put in place at the Aust Embassy in Bangkok, all visa applications were handled at the embassy. A large room was set up with a front counter, three booths for accepting applications. Behind the booths sat secretarial staff and an on-duty supervisor. (Thai)

From memory there were three interview rooms on the floor, and rows of seats for applicants.

All the forms were available from another counter, tables and pens were available to fill out forms.

Tourist visas were approved on the spot. The girl behind the counter who recieved the application asked a few questions and then told you to sit and wait for the decision.

The application then went to the supervisor and within 20 minutes the TV was stamped into your passport.

Spouse visas were handled similarly. The girl behind the counter took the papers asked you to sit and wait. A case officer interviewed you that day, told you what extra proofs may be required, and within three months a decision was made.

These days the whole procedure seems to take forever, particularly for spouse visas.

I do know that the medical results from the hospitals have to be sent back to Australia for verification. This would cause some delay.

If your partner requires Federal security check from Australia, this is another delay.

I also know that the Aust. Immigration Dept. have mountains of files that relate to visa violators running around in Oz and dozens of immigration officers searching for them. For that reason all checks need to be conducted thoroughly.

I have no knowledge of the inner working procedures on the Bangkok embassy, but I imagine that they would be subject to the usual staff shortages through sickness, holidays etc. Perhaps their staffing levels have been reduced for whatever reason.

This would add to the processing time for visa application.

You would need to know the exact number of applications that are received on a weekly basis and compare that statistic with the number of staff directly employed to handle those applications.

I agree with what some of you have already stated, that embassy staff need to be aware that they are dealing with the lives of people, and any unnessary delay will cause disruption to those lives.

For that reason, it should not be too much to expect the case officer keep applicants updated on the progress of the application.

If the average time for a SV decision is about three months, then why couldn't a procedure be put in place to inform the applicant of the further delay should a decision not be forthcoming within that time frame.

I have worked with government departments and I know that the wheels of change move very slowly.

I'm not so sure that flooding the respective departments with letters of complaint is the answer.

Speaking from personal experience, I was more than happy with the way our applications were handled. I received a phone call in Sydney from the embassy, and exchanged emails with a senior Aussie manager during the processes.

The whole thing went very smoothly.

If you plan well, prepare your application properly, allow yourselves plenty of time for the process to run it's course, you should not have your lives unduly disrupted by any unexpected delays.

[chareehusbee]

I agree with what some of you have already stated, that embassy staff need to be aware that they are dealing with the lives of people, and any unnessary delay will cause disruption to those lives.

For that reason, it should not be too much to expect the case officer keep applicants updated on the progress of the application.

If the average time for a SV decision is about three months, then why couldn't a procedure be put in place to inform the applicant of the further delay should a decision not be forthcoming within that time frame.

I have worked with government departments and I know that the wheels of change move very slowly.

I'm not so sure that flooding the respective departments with letters of complaint is the answer.

I agree with Mighty on this one, but I do think it's very important for them to update the applicants on progress. To me that doesn't sound like an unfair request. While the Embassy does state that 50% of SV applications are resolved in 3 months, I was informed by Rob that applicants should expect a 6 month turnaround. This does sound a bit suspicious, as 6 months is between the 3 month "minimum" and the 9 month "maximum". I think if applicants expected a 6 month turnaround then there'd be a hellava lot less frustrated people at least as far as the timeframe goes!

But the key to the frustrations is communication, and as Mighty, Chris and others have said, it is certainly not unreasonable to be kept informed of delays etc. That was the premise of my letter to the powers that be. I think unless you really have complaints about the way your case has been handled (as in Chris's case), writing a letter of complaint is not the best option. You can get the answers you're looking for thru some diplomacy tho, but you'll need to go above the heads of the people you're dealing with at the Embassy. That's the sad thing about the whole affair imho.

[gburns57au]

Good answer MM

But why should they inform you of delays after 3 months....their average is longer than that...it would be reasonable to expect an explanation if the process exceeded their own stated process time.

PaulPerth....if you are at the 3.5 month stage then I think a query would be in order.....If it backs out to say 6 months then contacting an MP is quite reasonable. After 3.5 months it would be unlikely that it is an issue of the relationship or other issues or you would have been asked for more info...it is more than likely that workload would be the issue.

Remember the Immigration give you an average processing time....most are settled within that time frame...thats not a bad record...but just because here we say the average is 3 months doesnt mean that it will be 3 months....we dont know what the situation is at the embassy. It is fine for people here to say contact this person or that person to push it along...but who knows if it works....you may get the visa 3 weeks later but who says you werent going to get it at that time anyway.

Edited March 26, 2006 by gburns57au

[vinny]

Vacancy at Australian Embassy, Bangkok: Regional Client Services Manager, Visa and Immigration Section. Anyone interested?

[Pink Mist]

When we did our 309 application (about 4 years ago now I think) the processing time was quoted at 9 months.

In reality it took 4, lodged application in November and got interview date mid March and notified by phone 309 approval given 2 working days later.

[Mighty Mouse]

Interesting job description, Vinny. The pay scale wasn't so great. Maybe that is why we don't get the cream of the crop processing visa applications.

It's one thing to write abusive letters of complaint to the Immigration Department, Bangkok Embassy and/or to the Prime Minister (not that he will ever read them) and it is another thing to write with logical suggestions about how they can improve, or speed up their systems.

It seems that most of you become frustrated because after a few months of waiting, you don't know where your application is in the queue and what is holding it up. This is understandable.

I assume that once the application has been received by the embassy, the file number assigned to it would be computer generated.

If this is correct, then that file number and its contents, can be referred to by most Immigration officers using departmental computers. Certainly those who are authorised for that purpose.

I can not see any reason why their computer system could not be tweaked allowing applicants to track their file number through the various stages of the procedure. This could be done over the internet, provided that privacy laws and security issues were adhered to.

Let's assume there are ten stages in the process. (There are probably heaps more)

Stage one: Accept application and fee, assign case officer (name), check application form answers, list all attachments.

Stage two: Wait for medical check papers from hospital and verification from Australia, fingerprints check from Thai police, name clearance check from Aust. Fed Police. (if applicable)

Stage three: Arrange date for interview.

Stage four: Conduct interview. Assess interviewees, request follow up information.(if necessary)

Stage five: Finalise initial report once all required papers have been received and checked.

Stage six: Make recommendation to Senior Immigration Officer, forward file.

Stage seven: Acceptance of file from case officer (name) by (name of Immigration officer)

Stage eight: Check application and recommendation. Refer matters to (whoever. Maybe back to the case officer, police, another government dept. etc.)

Stage nine: Make final decision, refer file back to case officer to inform applicant of result.

Stage ten: Forward file to (whoever) to await the issuing of visa.

If it was possible to go to your internet computer, punch in your file number and be able to track your file through the various stages, would you all be happier?

This at least allows you to see that your file is progressing along fairly smoothly.

If the Immigration web site listed the stages, showing the average amount of time it took for a file to get through each stage, it could be regarded as 'informative,' certainly more informative than the current system.

Maybe by trying to improve Immigration, rather than writing nasty letters, others following in our footsteps may enjoy the benefits.

[Pink Mist]

too many stages there, or from my experience there is on you scenario.

Stage one:

lodge application, with supporting documents, interview date is set and CW assigned.

you are advised at this stage any additional stuff that needs to be done ie medicals, police check(thai only you dont need AFP one untill PR stage), translations etc.

Stage two:

interview with CW.

Stage three

wait for phone call.

I agree MM that abusive letters serve no purpose, but also believe that trying to advise these people on how to perform thier jobs more efficiently would also be a waste of ink or electricity.

Most of us dont understand the workings of the Foreign Affairs dept or DIMA overseas, these people are career diplomats trying to work their way thru the ranks, they wont be there forever so why change anything, cop it sweet and go to the next posting.

That's why the CW's seem to run everything in BKK, why make waves, these people have been here forever they know the people and the country, we are vistors anyway.

my 1 satang anyway

[Chris Lawrence]

Lets get the person writing abusive letters to the Dept!

Yee of little faith.

My point is that there are procedural matters that are being determined with out regard to DIMA's own policy. U need to read the client service charter as well as the booklets for immig. This is what is govening the process. If u step outside these boundaries u are wrong.

I aslo agree that to be abusive back to DIMA makes u as guilty. At no time would I ever suggest that one be abusive, but we can only be softc**ks for so long. At some point u need to stand up for ur self. That was the point of this post.

If this post also generates constructive logical suggestions about how they can improve, or speed up their systems, then this would be great.

My suggestions to DIMA, was:

Maybe a good idea for BKK office is to include customer satisfaction survey in conformation letter to gauge how people perceived the service. We have to send form back to Dept so why not send survey back. Very effective tool.

Another tool I have used is 'client focus groups'. You only need about 10-12 people and can be done in one day. What you get out of this is feedback for improvement.

Both these models are cheap but effective in obtaining client satisfaction data.

Another suggestion I made to type the record of interview and hand a copy of the interview back to the applicant. This slows the interview process down but when done effectively relax's the applicant and u eventually get more information thru the process. The problem I encountered here was that the notes by the CO are the gospel truth. But what if they made a mistake and then covered their error up? Are u then right or wrong?

These are only suggestions to improve service. I have used all three models and they work in enviroments similar to DIMA.

I don't agree with Bronco that we are guests at our own embassy. Bronco u are right these girls have been here for ever but, why can't we be a bit more pro active when things start to go wrong. The poms seem to be way ahead of us when this happens.

The threads in the other topics posted by Ozzies seem to show a general frustration with how one is treated. How do we as a collective bunch try to ease the emotional pain and suffering this may put some of us thru. MM is also right that allow ur self enough time for the process. But when u go six weeks without the curtosy of a reply isn't this abuse. Where do u go from here. This is the concept that my post is trying to suggest.

Most Govt Depts at state level in NSW give u the structual level and most time names of people, why can't we as a collective group try to work out the structure of DIMA in Bangkok. It can help to understand the process.

MM I thought ur suggestion was very good.

If we don't pull together we get no where. We are isolated. We don't know.

Communication in my experience appears to be the greatest defect of character DIMA Bangkok has. This is confirmed by reading some of the general information on DIMA, in the Ombudsmans annual report. I disagree with posters saying that the Poli's cant help. U construct a concise and heartfelt letter to them they will respond. Only deal with the facts, and never be abusive towards the Dept. U wont be treated respectfully.

I too have had considerable experience dealing with Govt Dept's. This has generally been how I have handled the matters that have achieved results, when results were not forthcoming.

Remeber at the end of the day these people at DIMA will not remain our close friend. I just see it as another business deal with a social and community attachment. The one concept the girls at DIMA forget are that they are community workers.

When u work in the community u r responsible for the integrity and wellfare of that community. U need to be multi skilled and have a good understanding of the issues u r dealing with. Sadly our girls at DIMA seem not to adopt this concept. This is only my experience.

[Chris Lawrence]

This is one of the most important documents along with all the forms when applying for visa's:

Client Service Strategy For Visa & Citizenship Services (158KB PDF file), can be obtained off the DIMA website.

Client Service Charter (English) is only a draft and therefore not part of the policy of DIMA. This is a very simplistic document, my opinion only.

Reading the first document tells you what u can expect to recieve from DIMA and what is expected of u.

Vinny, good find. I wonder why the Dept is heading towards more customer type complaint handling? Seems to be a responsibility of this position. Is this a newrly created position? If not, has the postions Duty statement changed? Will we be able to find out who the new kid on the block will be?

The duty statement reads as follows:

Assist the Regional Director, Bangkok , to:

coordinate and implement business redesign across the region to better meet the needs of a diverse range of clients;

manage the continuous improvement of client information to ensure the look, feel and content best reflects DIMA’s new client service focus across all service channels in areas such as:

embassy/consulate website information; email auto-responses, telephone tree scripts, switchboard operator scripts and training, standard letter content, signs used at embassy gate, entrance ways, counters, information provided to Service Delivery Providers, information provided to offshore migration, education and travel agents, including formal presentations, information provided to other stakeholders, and regional and post newsletters;

Managing processes for escalation of sensitive cases, handling complaints and feedback by:

developing clear and helpful guidelines for staff on how to manage complaints, feedback and escalation of cases effectively;

analysing feedback to determine the best solutions for both client satisfaction and the achievement of DIMA outcomes;

incorporating this into business process redesign; and

developing staff training and briefings, and assisting in delivery of these across the region.

Engage regularly and effectively with DIMA stakeholders and client groups across the region for the:

establishment of client reference groups;

arranging regular briefings on DIMA products and client service; and

monitoring stakeholder and client group feedback.

By all accounts we should be able to find out who this is because that is what the duty statement is eluding to. We are stakeholders and part of the client group.

Empowerment is in part a political process. I know I will ask more about this position. If u don't ask the question u will never know.

If the Dept is serious about improving customer service and communication, then a postion like this is a good step foward. Sometimes small steps are the best.

[DavieA]

I agree with MM that when you go for a SV you are well awear of the waiting period. If you do all your home work and lodge a solid application then you are looking at approximately 3 months. If you get you visa in around three months then you've had good service imho, no point jumping up and and down and sending nasty letters.

Having said that I do question why the process in Thailand takes an average of 3-4 months. My cousin applied for a SV for his fiance who is American back in Janurary. They put their application in (in America) on the 4th Jan, she had an interview over the phone on the 17th Jan, and recieved the go ahead on the 24th Jan. A total of 20 days from start to finish. They are both 24 years old, have been together for about a year, and had never lived together for more than 3 months. I appriciate that she's American and the rest.....but 3 weeks vs 3-4 months certainly deserves some questions!

[Chris Lawrence]

I agree with MM that when you go for a SV you are well awear of the waiting period. If you do all your home work and lodge a solid application then you are looking at approximately 3 months. If you get you visa in around three months then you've had good service imho, no point jumping up and and down and sending nasty letters.

Dave who is sending nasty letters?

Having said that the answer u get in Oz is 6 months wait, and the answer u get here with DIMA is 9 months. Its not until u reach a forum such as this u start to see the reality of the situation. I did not find such a forum until it was too late. But when I did I saw that the poms were more compasionate in their posts on the subject and more pro active.

Not all SV are the same so for this fact one needs to ask the questions. In most cases the problem has already been addressed and the CO's are aware of the outcomes. Why then is it so hard to get an answer?

The fact of the matter is that there is a lack of communication from the Dept to applicants.

When u address these problems in ur work place ur work time becomes more productive. Because u are not wasting ur time chasing ur tail.

[gburns57au]

Having said that I do question why the process in Thailand takes an average of 3-4 months. My cousin applied for a SV for his fiance who is American back in Janurary. They put their application in (in America) on the 4th Jan, she had an interview over the phone on the 17th Jan, and recieved the go ahead on the 24th Jan. A total of 20 days from start to finish. They are both 24 years old, have been together for about a year, and had never lived together for more than 3 months. I appriciate that she's American and the rest.....but 3 weeks vs 3-4 months certainly deserves some questions!

The reason for the disparity between Thais getting a visa and someone like the Americans is simple

It it us....

Thailand is regarded as a high traffic country for migration to Oz...mainly due to all us guys who go there and bring girls back.

[gburns57au]

Having said that the answer u get in Oz is 6 months wait, and the answer u get here with DIMA is 9 months. Its not until u reach a forum such as this u start to see the reality of the situation. I did not find such a forum until it was too late. But when I did I saw that the poms were more compasionate in their posts on the subject and more pro active.

Not all SV are the same so for this fact one needs to ask the questions. In most cases the problem has already been addressed and the CO's are aware of the outcomes. Why then is it so hard to get an answer?

The fact of the matter is that there is a lack of communication from the Dept to applicants.

When u address these problems in ur work place ur work time becomes more productive. Because u are not wasting ur time chasing ur tail.

Chris, I went a bit deeper into the Oz Embassy in Thailands website today...I found a part where it gives what we can expect of them and what they expect of us...it was quite interesting.

No one is saying that you cant contact them to check your applications progress...the embassy will be happy to answer queries, What they dont want is to have people contacting them every week saying "How long till we find out". As I pointed out to Paul...at 3.5 months I believe he is quite entitled to make a query at this stage. But 3.5 months to start bringing in the Pollies is way too early considering the average waiting time quoted by the Embassy and Immigration. If the the application is being excessively delayed, then that is the time to bring in the big guns.

As they point out on the website...the more time we spend answering queries etc... is less time we spend processing applications.

I have also pointed out previously that the average waiting time we suggest here is based only on what the members here tell us, so any averages we give here are merely supposition and should not be taken as the normal.

I would advise everyone to go to the embassy's website and have a good look through it. Many of the questions can be answered there...

Edited March 26, 2006 by gburns57au

[Chris Lawrence]

GBurns I agree with u 100%. There is no need to be over dramatic with the Dept. it won't help your application or others. I have never advocated the misuse of power.

The topics that I have read in the forum, recently, appear to have some issue that needs to be answered. Why cant they be answered by the Dept. in Bangkok! Again, I have found DIMA in Australia more than helpful. But it is not the same here in Bangkok. Again the issues that I have pointed out are ones that DIMA Bangkok have acknowledge.

The thing that I see a topic like this is to give knowledge. Knowledge is power. It is up to the individual to use the knowledge they have. Some people fear others having knowledge as their own agends become less powerful.

It is here for discussion and for opinion. People are also able to give their suggestions as to what alternatives could be suggested to the Dept. Sometimes these people do listen. Again the need to get heard is to get past the bottom feeders or the mushrooms. People at this level are rarely looking to change the system for two reasons. One they dont know how or two, they are comfortable with what they are doing.

I only advocate to use power in a sane way; don't be an anarchist with this. Therefore to get past the frontline u need to present ur problem or complaint to the people who will listen. The problem that I encountered was that I could not get the frontline to even reply. Waiting 4-6 weeks for them to reply to an email; that is wrong in my books! But there have been other things that we encountered in this application process that were indeed necesary for a complaint to be made. I am also out an extra $6000 to some very bad calls by the Dept.

My way of dealing with this was to talk it over with a few close friends, spoke to DIMA in Oz who suggested that I lodge a complaint and searched in myself to the point will it effect our application. This is a process. We all need to analysis our own process.

The fact is that people with fly by applications, the ones that have no fault, need not worry. But it is the applications that have a little history to them that seem to be causing the problems that I have seen in this forum. What do u do then when u get no answer to the question u need to ask?

Lodging a complaint is not being agressive or being nasty. It is the right of a person who has had their rights interfeared with or violated to take such action. It will not affect the continuing rights of another but help elude the Dept to a disparity in service provision. Don't be scared to stand up for your self when this happens.

This is a scary path for some as it creates fear, which again gets u to look at ur self and what u r doing. It can stop u moving foward. Others may also not concur with ur action; again another path to self doubt.

GBurns, sadly softly softly does not always work. I wish it did; but it doesn't. I just don't want another person to go thru the same path of problems.

[chareehusbee]

I agree with MM that when you go for a SV you are well awear of the waiting period. If you do all your home work and lodge a solid application then you are looking at approximately 3 months. If you get you visa in around three months then you've had good service imho, no point jumping up and and down and sending nasty letters.

Having said that I do question why the process in Thailand takes an average of 3-4 months. My cousin applied for a SV for his fiance who is American back in Janurary. They put their application in (in America) on the 4th Jan, she had an interview over the phone on the 17th Jan, and recieved the go ahead on the 24th Jan. A total of 20 days from start to finish. They are both 24 years old, have been together for about a year, and had never lived together for more than 3 months. I appriciate that she's American and the rest.....but 3 weeks vs 3-4 months certainly deserves some questions!

I concur.

Incidentally, for my previous spouse who was a US citizen, her app took 4 months, applying thru the Washington DC mission, and we were married for 7 years, and had everything in both names etc. So I think your mate just got lucky.

[gburns57au]

GBurns I agree with u 100%. There is no need to be over dramatic with the Dept. it won't help your application or others. I have never advocated the misuse of power.

The topics that I have read in the forum, recently, appear to have some issue that needs to be answered. Why cant they be answered by the Dept. in Bangkok! Again, I have found DIMA in Australia more than helpful. But it is not the same here in Bangkok. Again the issues that I have pointed out are ones that DIMA Bangkok have acknowledge.

The thing that I see a topic like this is to give knowledge. Knowledge is power. It is up to the individual to use the knowledge they have. Some people fear others having knowledge as their own agends become less powerful.

It is here for discussion and for opinion. People are also able to give their suggestions as to what alternatives could be suggested to the Dept. Sometimes these people do listen. Again the need to get heard is to get past the bottom feeders or the mushrooms. People at this level are rarely looking to change the system for two reasons. One they dont know how or two, they are comfortable with what they are doing.

I only advocate to use power in a sane way; don't be an anarchist with this. Therefore to get past the frontline u need to present ur problem or complaint to the people who will listen. The problem that I encountered was that I could not get the frontline to even reply. Waiting 4-6 weeks for them to reply to an email; that is wrong in my books! But there have been other things that we encountered in this application process that were indeed necesary for a complaint to be made. I am also out an extra $6000 to some very bad calls by the Dept.

My way of dealing with this was to talk it over with a few close friends, spoke to DIMA in Oz who suggested that I lodge a complaint and searched in myself to the point will it effect our application. This is a process. We all need to analysis our own process.

The fact is that people with fly by applications, the ones that have no fault, need not worry. But it is the applications that have a little history to them that seem to be causing the problems that I have seen in this forum. What do u do then when u get no answer to the question u need to ask?

Lodging a complaint is not being agressive or being nasty. It is the right of a person who has had their rights interfeared with or violated to take such action. It will not affect the continuing rights of another but help elude the Dept to a disparity in service provision. Don't be scared to stand up for your self when this happens.

This is a scary path for some as it creates fear, which again gets u to look at ur self and what u r doing. It can stop u moving foward. Others may also not concur with ur action; again another path to self doubt.

GBurns, sadly softly softly does not always work. I wish it did; but it doesn't. I just don't want another person to go thru the same path of problems.

I agree if you feel that you have been or are being dealt with unfairly then by all means make a complaint to the Office in your home state. But before you do make a complaint, make sure that your complaint is reasonable.

As you suggested a well planned and well presented application will rarely have trouble...and if the department needs more info than they will ask for it. But a lot of people do get frustrated with the time taken and nothing heard so they feel the need to start asking the questions...and even when told that the application is being processed, they get uptight. The secret is that if you hear nothing then the application is proceeding smoothly, If they ask for more info, you supply it and then hear nothing the application is proceeding smoothly....If they start asking for more and more info then you can suspect your application is in trouble....That is when you will need to start getting a bit more earnest in your approaches to them.

I dont have the figures but I would say that more applications are approved then rejected...the ones that are rejected are done so because the application is poorly presented or incomplete, the partner has been keeping secrets (yes it does happen) or because of poor financial/health situations.

We are not here to give people power per se, we are here to assist in the preparation of the applications to try and help people through the application processes and to offer support. Once the application has been presented then there is little that can be done from here. Opinions are welcome of course but there is little value in the use of terms such as mushrooms and bottomfeeders to describe the embassy staff. I think your use of derogatory terms to describe the Embassy staff is why people thought that you were being abusive or writing abusive letters.

Softly softly doesnt always work but the trick is not just holding the hammer....but knowing when to use it.

Graham

[Chris Lawrence]

Thanks for your reply Graham

I didnt realise u were psychic; didnt even know myself that I was going to use such terminology in my last post. Its not flattering terminology, agreed, but I have seen it before as descriptive wording for such roles in a social context before.

Acting as an advocate, which you appear to be aluding too, is the supply of power? Another word common in a socail context is what is called a "gatekeeper". Gatekeepers only let out the information they believe is fair and proper. Depending on the agenda of the gatekeeper, u may not be getting all the information that is available.

All I hoped for was the information that I had obtained could be put out there. Unfortunatly, my process was to also give some feeling to what I thought. This is no reflexion to what this topic should be. The reason I put my experience in was to highlight some of the injustice's that could occur.

Again power should be used with regard to the context it is being directed at. Knowledge of who is who in the embassy may assist someone achieve a result. I take your point that a well planned application will go smoothly; however there are some that aren't smooth, but are well planned. When the question is asked you wait 4-6 weeks and no reply is forthcoming what do you do? You ask the question again, still you are ignored! Frustration creeps in, doubt, fear, your emotions are highly senced. You start to become irrational. You just want a civil reply. You want to talk to a civil minded person. This is where some of the information here may help.

By providing some of this information smooth sailing applicants may begin to sence fear, reading such a topic because they may see this as cue jumping, jeapodising their waiting time. I do not advocate this. But it may happen.

If the Dept. became more transparent in their dealings, then we would not have to hypothesize what is the numbers, how busy etc, the Dept is. In saying this I also realise some of the difficulties this brings the Dept.into, but I believe it can be done.

The new visa service I have read in some of the past posts appeard to be a 'real dogs body'. Wasn't there some complaints made about this? Has this service now improved? Has this cut the cues at the embassy? What would have happened if no one made a complaint?

If nothing changes nothing changes.

Don't get me wrong I am no misanthropist, but I believe in calling a spade a spade when I see one.

I hope that people can use some of this information. I also hope that the system does improve. On all accounts it can do with it.

Regards

Chris

[PaulPerth]

You ask the question again, still you are ignored! Frustration creeps in, doubt, fear, your emotions are highly senced. You start to become irrational. You just want a civil reply. You want to talk to a civil minded person. This is where some of the information here may help.

AMEN ----- aint that the truth!

[Mighty Mouse]

Every system will have shortcomings. By recognising a certain shortcoming you take remedial action.

BUT...depending on how complex the system is, such remedial action can cause havoc in another area.

Apply this principle to the system of processing visas and what havoc would be caused by case officers stopping their checking procedures to update applicants on the progress of their applications.

When we submitted our application, the embassy was busting at the seams with Aussies submitting visa applications. There were no available seats in the waiting room, standing room only.

Multiply this by the working days in the week, (mon - fri back then) and a lot of Aussies are in the system.

The number of applications received every day must be staggering. Embassy staff numbers would be limited so under the circumstances long waiting times should be expected.

If every applicant demanded that they be updated on a regular basis as to how far their application had progressed in the queue, the processing time would be considerably lengthened.

We all agree that the three "P's" are most important. Planning - Preparing - Presentation.

Part of the planning process is factoring in the waiting period for the application to reach a decision.

The "not knowing what is going on" problem can be alleviated by attending the interviw and speaking with your case officer. Your case officer is not a robot and by asking the right questions of her, by answering the questions asked of you, you can gauge to some extent what is going through her mind and how successful your application will be.

If you have followed the three "P's" and there are no follow up requirements asked of you, you can almost bet that your partner will soon be joining you in Oz.

Perhaps we should add a fourth "P." Patience.

[Team Bukowski]

well written MM. Shame I don't have much of that last "P"

Regarding how long to expect to wait, I stumbled across something this morning. Looking at the Reference Numbers we were given at the interview, take a look at two things.

First the Reference number: THAC/070106/1234 <- thats a no brainer, 07/1/06 was the date the application was handed in.

Now look at the File Number we were given by the ECO: 20060429678 (the 678 could be anything, its the first set of numbers that are interesting). Would that indicate a date of 29th April as some milestone? Am I reading too much into it, or is that some significant date you think? I.e. "ignore enquiries until at least this date", or "expected date for approval"

I'd be interested if other applicants could verify if those numbers corresponded roughly to the dates they got their visas.

*note real reference numbers have been changed for privacy reasons!

Edited March 28, 2006 by Team Bukowski

[chareehusbee]

First the Reference number: THAC/070106/1234 <- thats a no brainer, 07/1/06 was the date the application was handed in.

Now look at the File Number we were given by the ECO: 20060429678 (the 678 could be anything, its the first set of numbers that are interesting). Would that indicate a date of 29th April as some milestone? Am I reading too much into it, or is that some significant date you think? I.e. "ignore enquiries until at least this date", or "expected date for approval"

While that does sound an intriguing notion, I think it's coincidence:

Our File Number was *before* our app was even submitted!

[Team Bukowski]

"bugger"

thought I was on to something!

[Chris Lawrence]

MM what happens if all else fails? Who do you call!

Its good to see that you express yourself honestly, and say that u have a fear that people may abuse the system if they know what they can do.

Not everyone will have a smooth ride with these people, thats a fact of life. But again it does not pay to hypothesize what the Dept has or has not got. Its always better to deal with the facts. Until there is some transparency we are unable to confirm what is and what isn't.

The topic appears to have brought emotive issues into play for some. If feelings are hurt I had no intention to be the instergator of this. (My spelling is really bad, dont shoot me over this).

Again what do you do if all else fails, accepting that they have followed the principles you have set out.