Wife's Visit Visa To Uk

[jonnyscot]

Just a quick question, we're planning in visiting uk in the next couple months, it's the 3rd visit for the wife, both kids(5year old and 6 year old) have UK//Thai passports so not so much an issue for them in the application,, and were not yet 100% sure we will take them with us due to their schooling,, my concern is that if we do take them with us, we'll All be staying in my mums spare room, yes all 4 of us in the 1 room,, now I'm concerned that this may be an issue in the wifes application, if we wee to take the kids with us?? Any thoughts or advice on this

[wooloomooloo]

Have both kids and your wife been to UK together previously? If so, what were the living arrangements then? I understand you stated that your wife has visited twice previously, but it's not clear whether with the children.

Either way, two adults and two children in one bedroom wouldn't look good in the cold light of day to an ECO.

Edited May 30, 2013 by wooloomooloo

[jonnyscot]

Yep, all been before, last time I stated that we had accom arranged in local hotel which was correct but when we arrived my mum being mum was having none of it and said we weren't staying in a hotel when she always has a spare room for us, so we ended up having the kids camped on the floor of mums room in camp bedswhilst the wife and I had the spare room which delighted both mum and the kids,,,,

[SDM0712]

If I understand correctly you and your kids are UK passport holders and your wife is not.

Personally I would just say that you will be travelling and visiting various relatives and that you will book Travel Lodges etc once the visa is granted. Or book some hotels now on Agoda, it's all refundable. If they ask about the kids just say that it is undecided but in all probability they will be in school and remaining not travelling.

All the ECOs are really concerned about is reason to return and that the type of visa matches the genuine purpose of the visit. Your wife has shown that she has honoured the terms of the previous visas and is therefore reliable.If they are satisfied that you are only going to the UK for a holiday then I am certain you will be fine.

Even if you do tell them that you will all be sharing your parents small house this is more relevant to an extended stay rather than a short holiday.

Edited May 30, 2013 by SDM0712

[jonnyscot]

I did briefly consider not mentioning the kids since as I mentioned they already have uk passports and as yet we're still uncertain whether to take them or not,,,

but just didn't want to do wrong by possibly leaving out what could be considered relevant info,, and then if it was checked on the info submitted for her previous visits it was found that for some reason she hadn't mentioned the kids this time,,,

[wooloomooloo]

I'm not going to rubbish your advice, SDM, but I would desist from being economical with the truth as well as resting on your laurels because the wife has been successful with two previous applications.

Each application is a fresh application and will be judged on its merits. That the OP's wife has honoured the contract previously is a bonus but not a given to future applications. Live and learn the hard way if one so wishes.

[jonnyscot]

Thank you both for the advice,, I do agree with you both to an extent and value your advice,,

although I considered leaving out some info, deep down I don't think it's the way to go, although my wife has had successes in the past, she also had a refusal which was her very first application and a terrible feeling when she checked the envelope and found out it had been turned down,, I put that down to being ill prepared in the supporting docs she submitted, I guess this time again it's best to cover all bases,, I think if the kids do come I'll have the hotel reservations made, and if mums so insistent again this time then so be it, it's just the hotel deposit I'll lose out on,

incidentally the previous applications have all been 6 month visit visas,, this time thinking in trying for a 2 year or 5 year, may not get the 5 year but worth a crack I think,, if there's a possibility of avoiding the concerns of applying for another6 month visa next year then it'll be worth it

[SDM0712]

I think if the kids do come I'll have the hotel reservations made, and if mums so insistent again this time then so be it, it's just the hotel deposit I'll lose out on, incidentally the previous applications have all been 6 month visit visas,, this time thinking in trying for a 2 year or 5 year, may not get the 5 year but worth a crack I think,, if there's a possibility of avoiding the concerns of applying for another6 month visa next year then it'll be worth it

You should tell the truth as it stands at the time of the application, but as I understand it you are not certain that your kids will be going with you.

In terms of hotel deposit if you book via Agoda many offer a full refund if you cancel before 24 hours of stay.

As I said previously the ECO will look at various aspects of your application, such as whether your wife satisfies the conditions for the type of visa applied for and whether he believes the answers given are genuine. If they are and he is that's it !

For example, if you are applying for a visit visa the ECO will need to believe that the purpose of the trip is for that, just a visit, a holiday. He will want to know that your wife has enough money to fund the trip in terms of food and accommodation, and has a reason to return to Thailand. Ideally if your wife can show she has a job or property here then those are reasons to return. The ECO would have to be unsatisfied that the visa application is genuine to refuse, ie that your wife wishes to enter the UK for a reason other then disclosed on the application form, or has given an untruthful answer in the application. For example lets say your wife applies for a visit visa but in reality your family are going to the UK to live and your wife's plan is to enter under a Visit Visa and then plans to try to convert this to a settlement visa once she is in the UK. If this is the belief then the ECO will refuse and probably suggest you apply for a settlement visa, which is of course is many many times the cost !

To go back the ECO will need to be satisfied that your wife has access to funds and accommodation for the duration of the stay, if you want to apply for for a two or five year visa do you mean that your wife wishes to stay for for two or five years ? I am pretty sure that you have intimated it will be a short holiday of a few weeks in which case a VV will be the one to apply for. Even though they may very well stamp 6 months in your wife's passport this is for convenience only. Beware that if you say the visit is two weeks and then your wife stays for six months, that this will almost certainly prejudice further applications, even though the passport stamp does say 6 months.

I assume what you mean is to apply for a multiple entry two or five year visit visa, I am quite certain that there is no such thing as a VV that is valid for so long as the ECO would have to assess each visit at the time of the visit and cannot know influencing future factors.

Incidentally if you do tell the ECO that you are staying in a hotel you must be able to show, on request, details of your hotel booking when you arrive in the UK to Immigration. Unlike a Settlement Visa, a Visit Visa does not give your wife the right of entry to the UK, it only give the right to travel and present herself to UK Immigration at the border. By that I mean if Immigration for whatever reason wants to ask some further questions, such as if your wife stated that she had booked hotel accommodation for the duration of the stay but cannot show proof when she arrives, they may refuse entry.

Really I think you are worrying unnecessarily, this is a really straight forward application.

Stephen

Edited May 30, 2013 by SDM0712

[7by7]

SDM0712's advice could cause you and your family major problems.

He is basically advising you to use deception in the application, and if this is discovered by the ECO then the visa will be refused.

If it is discovered by an Immigration Officer at her port of entry to the UK she will be refused entry.

In either case she could then be banned from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

How could it be discovered?

A couple of questions by the IO, answers are different to those in the application; trouble. Particularly if she said the boys weren't coming with you in her application, yet there they are at immigration!

Overcrowding is not as big an issue in a visit application as it is in a settlement one; but even were this a settlement application from what you have said, I do not see a problem with staying at your mother's.

MAA12 Overcrowding

A house is considered to be overcrowded if 2 persons aged 10 years or more of opposite sexes, who are not living together as husband and wife, must sleep in the same room. The Act also details the maximum number of people allowed for a given number of rooms or a given room floor area.

Account is taken only of rooms with a floor area larger than 50 square feet and rooms of a type used either as a living room or bedroom.........

You will also see a table showing the maximum number of people allowed for a given number of rooms, and that a child under 10 counts as half a person.

I see no problem with you and the boys staying at your mothers, with the boys sleeping in the spare bedroom and you and your wife in the living room or vice versa.

Unless, of course, your mother lives in something like a tiny flat or there are enough people already living there so that the addition of you and your family breaks the overcrowding rules.

In your situation I think it is worth considering a longer term visa, they do exist, despite what SDM0712 says, but be warned; the longer the term applied for, the higher the fee, and if the ECO decides to issue a shorter term than that asked for there will be no refund of the difference in fees.

Of course, even if she has a 10 year visit visa she can still only spend a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit and, usually, a maximum of 6 months out of any 12 in the UK as a visitor.

See VAT1.4 Visa validity - What period for a multiple entry visit visa?

[mca]

Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm taking my wife, daughter and niece to visit the UK next month for a couple of weeks.

We received the visitor's visas with no problem.

As I haven't been home in ages and reading through this thread I was wondering what "extra" things the immi officer at Heathrow might request of my family once they reach the desk at arrivals. In my ignorance I assumed that they might ask them a few questions and let them be on their way. I didn't think they might have to show any other physical evidence regarding their stay.

On another note can Thai spouses and children come through the UK passport holders line with me at Heathrow?

Many thanks and once again sorry for the hijack.

[jonnyscot]

Thanks for your advice 7by7, I did think of asking the wife to apply for a longer visitor visa, but thought they maybe only issue if they see regular previous visits,, we didn't visit last year although this was partly due to my changing jobs,, the cost wouldn't really be an issue for us if we were to try for a 5 year or more visit visa,, but wondered if they would issue the longer one or not, my mum and dad are both in their mid 70's and certainly not the best of health and most previous applications have been based on visiting them

although I have a son and daughter still in uk who I have regular contact with and spend time with when we do go there

[7by7]

mca,

The likelihood of being asked anything by immigration at your port of entry is remote; but as long as the answers to any questions asked are consistent with the answers given in the application there should not be a problem.

It is a good idea, though, to carry the supporting documents used in the application in your hand baggage so you can show them to the IO if necessary.

Basically, an IO can only refuse entry if s/he has reasonable grounds to consider that the visa was obtained by deception, the visitor intends to breach the conditions of the visa in some way or the visitors circumstances have changed to such an extent that the reasons for granting the visa no longer apply. They cannot refuse on their own, they need the approval of the senior IO on duty.

Opinions differ on which line to use.

I once asked at Heathrow immigration and was told that, even though they had settlement visas, strictly speaking my wife and step daughter could not use the UK/EU line; but he would let them on that occasion as they were with me.

Since then, until they got their British passports, they joined the non UK/EU queue while I went to the IO on the UK/EU queue and asked; we were never refused.

There is no problem with you joining them in the non UK/EU line.

jonnyscot,

It is, of course, your decision whether or not to apply for a longer term this time.

From the link above:

Applications for long term visit visas will be considered in the light of:

• Credible ongoing reason to visit. A successful applicant must demonstrate a frequent and sustained need to come to the UK, such as family links or an established business connection.
• Stability of personal circumstances. As far as possible applicants 'status should be unlikely to change significantly during the validity of the visa. The better able the applicant is to demonstrate stability over the long term the more it will support an application for a longer period of validity.
• Successful applicants will also need to demonstrate that they are able to support themselves in the UK without recourse to public funds, and demonstrate that they would intend to leave the UK at the end of each visit.
• Previous travel history as evidenced in a current valid passport, which might include travel to Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Schengen countries, Switzerland, or the USA in the same category as the application to the UK, for example, as a visitor. Holding a valid visa for any of the aforementioned countries, evidence they complied with conditions of entry, that applications for these countries were not refused nor were they removed from a country on their last trip, would all help to support the application.

From what you have said; you live in Thailand with her and so, assuming you have the requisite visa, she has stable circumstances there; you, and therefore she, has immediate family in the UK and so a valid reason to make regular visits; you can, I trust, support yourselves in the UK; she has visited the UK three times before and, I hope, complied with her visa conditions.

It seems to me that your wife ticks the necessary boxes.

Edited May 31, 2013 by 7by7

[mca]

That's great 7by7. Thank you very much

[SDM0712]

SDM0712's advice could cause you and your family major problems.

He is basically advising you to use deception in the application, and if this is discovered by the ECO then the visa will be refused.

This is untrue, what I actually said is “You should tell the truth as it stands at the time of the application,but as I understand it you are not certain that your kids will be going with you.

SDM

Edited June 2, 2013 by theoldgit
Response moved from within quote, and bold font changed

[7by7]

"The truth as it stands at the time of the application" is, from what the OP has said, that the two children will probably be travelling with them. Saying that they will definitely not be is deception. A deception which would be difficult to explain when all four of them turn up at UK immigration!

As is making provisional hotel bookings they have no intention of using.

Moot, anyway; as I have explained, unless his parents live in a very small house or flat where the living room and bedrooms are all less than 50 square feet in size (about 7ft x 7 foot!) overcrowding wont be an issue.

[jonnyscot]

Just another question regarding the application,, the daughter is just started her first school year in Thailand, the equivalent I suppose to primary 1 in UK,, if we were to bring them would taking her from school outwith school holidays be considered unfavourably in the wife's visa aplication ??

[7by7]

The ECO will be concerned with whether or not your wife's application meets the requirements of the UK immigration rules; not the requirements of the Thai education system.

However, I would include a note in your sponsor's letter to explain why you need to travel at this time and not during the Thai school holidays.

I would also obtain a letter from her school granting her a leave of absence and confirming when she is expected to return (ditto for the other child if they are also at school) as this will help with your wife's reason to return.

Note that the ECO or someone from their office may want to talk to the letter's signatory on the phone, and if the letter is written in English they will want to hold this phone conversation in English and will doubt the letter's authenticity if the signatory is unable to do so. If the letter is written in Thai then the embassy have Thai speaking staff who can conduct the phone call., though you should include an English translation of it.

[jonnyscot]

, we'll consider the issue regarding the kids schooling carefully, since I don't want her to be turned down on her visa due to this,, especially if applying for a longer term visit visa, I certainly think the 5 year one would be more suitable since it will help us better plan ti visit UK during the thai school holidays, problem this time is it looks as though that due to my work commitments (I work approx 5 week rotations) their next school holiday will tie in with me being at work,,,

Anyway thanks again for your valued advice 7by7

[mca]

As is making provisional hotel bookings they have no intention of using.

I have a question about that. When my wife submitted her and my daughter's application we'd made an initial 3 night hotel booking in London for when we arrived and provided the booking information as part of the application. Plans changed after we received the visas and now my folks are coming to pick us up at the airport and have booked and paid for both us and them to stay in an airport hotel overnight and then travel back to my hometown. Therefore my wife cancelled the hotel reservation in London.

Would it be best if my folks emailed me the booking confirmation for the hotel they arranged for all of us in case the IO asks?

We're only going for a fortnight. I'd hate to think they won't let us in.

[theoldgit]

Probably better to be safe than sorry, it certainly wouldn't do any harm to have details of your airport hotel reservation with you in the very unlikely event that you are asked.

If anything more likely to be asked for return ticket details.

[mca]

Probably better to be safe than sorry, it certainly wouldn't do any harm to have details of your airport hotel reservation with you in the very unlikely event that you are asked.

If anything more likely to be asked for return ticket details.

Thanks mate.

[7by7]

, we'll consider the issue regarding the kids schooling carefully, since I don't want her to be turned down on her visa due to this,,

I think you may have misunderstood me.

There is nothing in the rules to say that children can only visit the UK in their school holidays; there is no reason why your wife would be refused because the timing of the visit means taking your children out of school.

My suggestion about the letter from their school was more to do with adding to your wife's reason to return; although your status in Thailand should be sufficient for that anyway.

[jonnyscot]

Ok understood, thanks for the clarification

[jonnyscot]

A further question regarding the docs submitted,, do they accept scanned copies of the signed supporting and sponsor letters?

I just noticed in a previous thread his wife's visitor visa application was returned after 3 weeks,,, our previous applications are all returned in just over a week,, just wondered if the scanned supporting letters from myself, and also my family in uk would suffice as this would save time in waiting for originals to arrive in post

[7by7]

I thought you lived in Thailand with your wife and kids?

If so, why would you need to scan your sponsor's letter instead of submitting the original?

A scanned copy, or email attachment printed out, of the letter from, presumably, your parents offering accommodation should be fine.

processing times depend mainly on demand; the more applications they have to process, the longer each application will take; past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

[jonnyscot]

I do stay with the wife and kids,,,, I'm currently away working in west Africa, where I'll be until returning to Bangkok I work 5 week rotations here, on completion of each rotation my company provide my flights back to Thailand

I had also planned to use my flight boarding passes over the past year showing flight departures to work location from Bangkok As supporting evidence of the wife's need to return to Thailand, since additional evidence of us living together will also be submitted..

I had planned to help her with the documents on my last stint home in Thailand, but was called away early due to a work colleagues father passing away

[7by7]

Then put all that in your sponsor's letter to show why it's a scanned copy, not original.

Don't assume that because you've told them something in a previous application that you don't need to tell them in this one!

[bifftastic]

Personally, I'd be reluctant to show accommodation arrangements that might be seen as unsuitable, such as all four of you in the same bedroom.

As I remember, on the form there is a question about children travelling with the applicant, and there are options for the answer to be either 'yes' or 'no'. I don't remember a 'we're not sure yet' option.

Given that people's plans change, I would suggest that you proceed with the application as if the children are travelling with you, and provide details of suitable accommodation for them.

You can always mention in the covering letter that you're not sure if they will or not.

Better to turn up at the border without them, having said they will be coming, than the other way round.

[Jay Sata]

I do stay with the wife and kids,,,, I'm currently away working in west Africa, where I'll be until returning to Bangkok I work 5 week rotations here, on completion of each rotation my company provide my flights back to Thailand

I had also planned to use my flight boarding passes over the past year showing flight departures to work location from Bangkok As supporting evidence of the wife's need to return to Thailand, since additional evidence of us living together will also be submitted..

I had planned to help her with the documents on my last stint home in Thailand, but was called away early due to a work colleagues father passing away

You must be working in the oil/mining industry so not too hard to get all the paperwork to support your claim.

I'd not bother about the minutiae of your UK accommodation and just book a hotel for a night or two and say you are travelling visiting friends and relatives.

Good luck and hope it all works out OK.

[jonnyscot]

Yep jay, working in pipelay,, I've scanned and sent the support letter today, and sent all 3 pages, I've been truthful in our intention and mentioned about my mums accommodation including altering a dining room to an additional extra bedroom if required for the kids for the holiday,, hopefully that will suffice

Thanks