Yingluck Ordered To Reinstate Former N C S Secretary General Thawil Pliensri

[waza]

Good news I hope

[GentlemanJim]

Paradorn Patanatabut, the current NSC chief, said he would be willing to return the post to Mr Thawil if the procedure is in accordance with the law.

He said he was not concerned with the court’s verdict and would leave it to the government to pursue the issue. (MCOT online news)

But the courts have just said that the procedure is in accordance with the law

[animatic]

The hotline to Dubai will be buzzing tonight when Thailand's real number two, 'Poo', complains to Thailand's de facto number one, 'Pee', that this just so unfair.

I love Thai nicknames, don't you?

Pee is gonna plotz when he gets all that poo says.

[rubl]

While PM Yingluck looks into this issue and responds without an appropriate time, could she also 'order' her MoFA to make haste with the 'passport' issue.?

This transparent government is really thorough in studying anything they don't like it would seem.

[amore]

. “I am a professional civil servant. I work for the country, not a political party.”

The crux of the problem, when the party is owned lock, stock and barrel.

Perhaps he should have thought about his supposed political impartiality when he said this

Thawil also accused the DSI of changing and distorting "facts" to suit the new government, adding that the so-called "men in black" who clashed with soldiers on April 10, 2010 had been arrested but some were released on bail and the news was being kept secret from the public.

However, Thawil did not provide any concrete proof.

or this

He said he was not happy that Abhisit Vejjajiva, the then-prime minister, and Suthep Thaugsuban, then deputy prime minister in charge of the CRES, have been charged with premeditated murder in connection with the crackdown on the protesters.

or this

“state officials who risked their lives to disperse unlawful protesters deserved praise and should not be accused of killing people.”

[473geo]

No issues for the government, he is finished now anyway, soon to retire, where he can allocate his full support to whatever cause he chooses. Does he really think he will resume his position and carry his previous authority to the full? Not the smartest guy in the Thailand then? A hollow 'victory'.

[rixalex]

No issues for the government, he is finished now anyway, soon to retire, where he can allocate his full support to whatever cause he chooses. Does he really think he will resume his position and carry his previous authority to the full? Not the smartest guy in the Thailand then? A hollow 'victory'.

I think you might have that the wrong way round. One imagines he knew that resuming his position would be difficult, whatever the result of his appeal, but wanted to win the case on a matter of principle.. and he did win, and so his point has been made. Nothing hollow about that, unless principles mean nothing to you.

What will be a hollow victory, is if the government do as you imply: reluctantly and begrudgingly accept his reinstatement, but try to get their own back, in their own childish way, by making his job impossible to do.

[473geo]

No issues for the government, he is finished now anyway, soon to retire, where he can allocate his full support to whatever cause he chooses. Does he really think he will resume his position and carry his previous authority to the full? Not the smartest guy in the Thailand then? A hollow 'victory'.

I think you might have that the wrong way round. One imagines he knew that resuming his position would be difficult, whatever the result of his appeal, but wanted to win the case on a matter of principle.. and he did win, and so his point has been made. Nothing hollow about that, unless principles mean nothing to you.

What will be a hollow victory, is if the government do as you imply: reluctantly and begrudgingly accept his reinstatement, but try to get their own back, in their own childish way, by making his job impossible to do.

If principles mean wasting time and resources on a confrontation where the outcome will not improve my situation, then I do not hold such principles.....I see yet another thread has come around to comments regarding the more interesting 473geo.......

[rixalex]

No issues for the government, he is finished now anyway, soon to retire, where he can allocate his full support to whatever cause he chooses. Does he really think he will resume his position and carry his previous authority to the full? Not the smartest guy in the Thailand then? A hollow 'victory'.

I think you might have that the wrong way round. One imagines he knew that resuming his position would be difficult, whatever the result of his appeal, but wanted to win the case on a matter of principle.. and he did win, and so his point has been made. Nothing hollow about that, unless principles mean nothing to you.

What will be a hollow victory, is if the government do as you imply: reluctantly and begrudgingly accept his reinstatement, but try to get their own back, in their own childish way, by making his job impossible to do.

If principles mean wasting time and resources on a confrontation where the outcome will not improve my situation, then I do not hold such principles.....I see yet another thread has come around to comments regarding the more interesting 473geo.......

People every day are taking other people or organisations to court, often not because they think doing so will improve their situation, but because they have been wronged, or feel they have been wronged, and are looking for some sort of official and legal vindication. Not sure what's difficult about that to understand, or why you might think doing so was a waste of time and resources.

[473geo]

No issues for the government, he is finished now anyway, soon to retire, where he can allocate his full support to whatever cause he chooses. Does he really think he will resume his position and carry his previous authority to the full? Not the smartest guy in the Thailand then? A hollow 'victory'.

I think you might have that the wrong way round. One imagines he knew that resuming his position would be difficult, whatever the result of his appeal, but wanted to win the case on a matter of principle.. and he did win, and so his point has been made. Nothing hollow about that, unless principles mean nothing to you.

What will be a hollow victory, is if the government do as you imply: reluctantly and begrudgingly accept his reinstatement, but try to get their own back, in their own childish way, by making his job impossible to do.

If principles mean wasting time and resources on a confrontation where the outcome will not improve my situation, then I do not hold such principles.....I see yet another thread has come around to comments regarding the more interesting 473geo.......

People every day are taking other people or organisations to court, often not because they think doing so will improve their situation, but because they have been wronged, or feel they have been wronged, and are looking for some sort of official and legal vindication. Not sure what's difficult about that to understand, or why you might think doing so was a waste of time and resources.

As I said 'hollow victory' thanks for the explanation......

[rubl]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

[whybother]

Perhaps he should have thought about his supposed political impartiality when he said this

Thawil also accused the DSI of changing and distorting "facts" to suit the new government, adding that the so-called "men in black" who clashed with soldiers on April 10, 2010 had been arrested but some were released on bail and the news was being kept secret from the public.

However, Thawil did not provide any concrete proof.

or this

He said he was not happy that Abhisit Vejjajiva, the then-prime minister, and Suthep Thaugsuban, then deputy prime minister in charge of the CRES, have been charged with premeditated murder in connection with the crackdown on the protesters.

or this

“state officials who risked their lives to disperse unlawful protesters deserved praise and should not be accused of killing people.”

What was political about those statements, PPD? Are you suggesting he shouldn't be talking about what happened? Does that mean that anyone that talks about what happened is being political?

[473geo]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

[Noistar]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

"if the NACC agrees that the transfer was unfair and resolves to pursue the case, the PM and all her Cabinet members are required to suspend their duties, pending a verdict by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division on Political Office Holders."

Presumably if the appeal fails, irrespective of his retirement, the flack from the ruling will still be relevant.

Becoming less of a hollow victory?

[473geo]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

"if the NACC agrees that the transfer was unfair and resolves to pursue the case, the PM and all her Cabinet members are required to suspend their duties, pending a verdict by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division on Political Office Holders."

Presumably if the appeal fails, irrespective of his retirement, the flack from the ruling will still be relevant.

Becoming less of a hollow victory?

In your dreams......

[rubl]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

My dear geo, I'm really surprise at your reply. Surely you are not trying to tell me that this current government is petty or would be vindictive upon this court order? This current government with 'democracy' so high on their list of aspects of society to guard from dangers? Even as I write this reply PM Yingluck may still be in Colombo with a repeat of her 'UlanBator' speech on democracy.

Now even if you just told me that the worthy gentleman to be reinstated has only a few more months to go before his retirement and will therefore never hold 'the position', I still wouldn't talk about a 'hollow victory' as surely rather than a position and work the gentleman might agree on a bit of an extra bonus, be willing to be wiled away with the odd quango trip, things like that.

Oh, almost forgot, the road to democracy and 'rule of law' is long and winding

[rixalex]

People every day are taking other people or organisations to court, often not because they think doing so will improve their situation, but because they have been wronged, or feel they have been wronged, and are looking for some sort of official and legal vindication. Not sure what's difficult about that to understand, or why you might think doing so was a waste of time and resources.

As I said 'hollow victory' thanks for the explanation......

Your explanation amounts to, in life, if you don't get any tangible improvement in your situation out of something, it's not worth doing. Begs the question, what are you doing here. Don't worry, it's rhetorical.

[yoshiwara]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

Another Thaksin apologist trying to kick a legal victory against Thaksin's machinations into the long grass. The good thing is that the courts are themselves, on occasion, prepared to take a principled stand and ipso facto declare that they are not in Thaksin's pocket with the zip closed. What happens de facto with the remnants of this civil servant's career is a coat hanger for the main show. And whistle all you want, this is a part of the ongoing guerilla warfare between the still remaining independent (of Thaksin) institutions of the state and Thaksin's largesse. You know it.

[lungmi]

No issues for the government, he is finished now anyway, soon to retire, where he can allocate his full support to whatever cause he chooses. Does he really think he will resume his position and carry his previous authority to the full? Not the smartest guy in the Thailand then? A hollow 'victory'.

Yes, he is finished. Good for him. He can have a quiet life outside the gangsters, the cleptocrates, the ineptocrates.

[473geo]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

My dear geo, I'm really surprise at your reply. Surely you are not trying to tell me that this current government is petty or would be vindictive upon this court order? This current government with 'democracy' so high on their list of aspects of society to guard from dangers? Even as I write this reply PM Yingluck may still be in Colombo with a repeat of her 'UlanBator' speech on democracy.

Now even if you just told me that the worthy gentleman to be reinstated has only a few more months to go before his retirement and will therefore never hold 'the position', I still wouldn't talk about a 'hollow victory' as surely rather than a position and work the gentleman might agree on a bit of an extra bonus, be willing to be wiled away with the odd quango trip, things like that.

Oh, almost forgot, the road to democracy and 'rule of law' is long and winding

I wouldn't attempt to tell you anything Rubl .......I will await an outcome that intimates more than 'hollow victory' you guys can guess at his future if you wish......is he back in the job yet?

[473geo]

People every day are taking other people or organisations to court, often not because they think doing so will improve their situation, but because they have been wronged, or feel they have been wronged, and are looking for some sort of official and legal vindication. Not sure what's difficult about that to understand, or why you might think doing so was a waste of time and resources.

As I said 'hollow victory' thanks for the explanation......

Your explanation amounts to, in life, if you don't get any tangible improvement in your situation out of something, it's not worth doing. Begs the question, what are you doing here. Don't worry, it's rhetorical.

I'm pleased you inform me the question is rhetorical.......it doesn't actually make sense.....where is here?......and why are you discussing the interesting 473geo yet again? (not rhetorical)

[pilot321]

The hotline to Dubai will be buzzing tonight when Thailand's real number two,'Poo', complains to Thailand's de facto number one, 'Pee', that this just so unfair.

I love Thai nicknames, don't you?

I don't know what nickname Paradorn has, but "Pee" will, indeed, be upset to have his "brother" removed for the returning Thawil:

Other posts in the civil service and police have gone to Thaksin loyalists including Paradorn Pattanathabutr, who was made secretary-general of the country's National Security Council and this month said Thaksin was "like a brother".

Reuters

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCABRE89S0GH20121029

[pilot321]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

Another Thaksin apologist trying to kick a legal victory against Thaksin's machinations into the long grass. The good thing is that the courts are themselves, on occasion, prepared to take a principled stand and ipso facto declare that they are not in Thaksin's pocket with the zip closed. What happens de facto with the remnants of this civil servant's career is a coat hanger for the main show. And whistle all you want, this is a part of the ongoing guerilla warfare between the still remaining independent (of Thaksin) institutions of the state and Thaksin's largesse. You know it.

Good summation of the situation and its detractor.

[rubl]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

My dear geo, I'm really surprise at your reply. Surely you are not trying to tell me that this current government is petty or would be vindictive upon this court order? This current government with 'democracy' so high on their list of aspects of society to guard from dangers? Even as I write this reply PM Yingluck may still be in Colombo with a repeat of her 'UlanBator' speech on democracy.

Now even if you just told me that the worthy gentleman to be reinstated has only a few more months to go before his retirement and will therefore never hold 'the position', I still wouldn't talk about a 'hollow victory' as surely rather than a position and work the gentleman might agree on a bit of an extra bonus, be willing to be wiled away with the odd quango trip, things like that.

Oh, almost forgot, the road to democracy and 'rule of law' is long and winding

I wouldn't attempt to tell you anything Rubl .......I will await an outcome that intimates more than 'hollow victory' you guys can guess at his future if you wish......is he back in the job yet?

Already back? PM Yingluck probably got 30 days to respond. With her history in responding though if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath. The Ombudsman is also still waiting for confirmation that some criminal fugitive's passport has been revoked and that story has been going on for more than a year now.

[473geo]

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

My dear geo, I'm really surprise at your reply. Surely you are not trying to tell me that this current government is petty or would be vindictive upon this court order? This current government with 'democracy' so high on their list of aspects of society to guard from dangers? Even as I write this reply PM Yingluck may still be in Colombo with a repeat of her 'UlanBator' speech on democracy.

Now even if you just told me that the worthy gentleman to be reinstated has only a few more months to go before his retirement and will therefore never hold 'the position', I still wouldn't talk about a 'hollow victory' as surely rather than a position and work the gentleman might agree on a bit of an extra bonus, be willing to be wiled away with the odd quango trip, things like that.

Oh, almost forgot, the road to democracy and 'rule of law' is long and winding

I wouldn't attempt to tell you anything Rubl .......I will await an outcome that intimates more than 'hollow victory' you guys can guess at his future if you wish......is he back in the job yet?

Already back? PM Yingluck probably got 30 days to respond. With her history in responding though if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath. The Ombudsman is also still waiting for confirmation that some criminal fugitive's passport has been revoked and that story has been going on for more than a year now.

Always good news to hear the judiciary are addressing the real important stuff Rubl......thanks for keeping me informed

[rubl]

My dear geo, I'm really surprise at your reply. Surely you are not trying to tell me that this current government is petty or would be vindictive upon this court order? This current government with 'democracy' so high on their list of aspects of society to guard from dangers? Even as I write this reply PM Yingluck may still be in Colombo with a repeat of her 'UlanBator' speech on democracy.

Now even if you just told me that the worthy gentleman to be reinstated has only a few more months to go before his retirement and will therefore never hold 'the position', I still wouldn't talk about a 'hollow victory' as surely rather than a position and work the gentleman might agree on a bit of an extra bonus, be willing to be wiled away with the odd quango trip, things like that.

Oh, almost forgot, the road to democracy and 'rule of law' is long and winding

I wouldn't attempt to tell you anything Rubl .......I will await an outcome that intimates more than 'hollow victory' you guys can guess at his future if you wish......is he back in the job yet?

Already back? PM Yingluck probably got 30 days to respond. With her history in responding though if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath. The Ombudsman is also still waiting for confirmation that some criminal fugitive's passport has been revoked and that story has been going on for more than a year now.

Always good news to hear the judiciary are addressing the real important stuff Rubl......thanks for keeping me informed

You're welcome, my dear friend. Mind you, the Ombudsman is not part of the 'judiciary' I think, just part of the 'checks and balances' put in place to protect ordinary citizens from a nasty government. If you have nothing else to do on this Saturday night have a read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman

[waza]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

Personally I think it was worth it just to see Yingluck with egg on her face, and I bet he does too.

[Noistar]

"A hollow victory is where someone wins something in name, but are seen not to have gained anything by winning."

Surely the Central Administrative Court ordering Prime Minister can't be called a hollow victory, unless one were to suggest that the PM will not follow the order of course.

Any person who understands how the world functions knows that if the guy was not finished as far as having a responsible job under this goverment before the court case....... he is now.......no matter how you would like it to be in a perfect world......he may have been 'managed out'......but he certainly will not be managed back in.....don't you think the courts know the appeal process and the timescales to his retirement...there are plenty of methods to make sure he never holds the position again.......'hollow victory' it remains

"if the NACC agrees that the transfer was unfair and resolves to pursue the case, the PM and all her Cabinet members are required to suspend their duties, pending a verdict by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division on Political Office Holders."

Presumably if the appeal fails, irrespective of his retirement, the flack from the ruling will still be relevant.

Becoming less of a hollow victory?

In your dreams......

Many things I dream of - Democracy and rule of law in Thailand doesn't compete with the nice ones