Very Wrongfull Decision By Ukba....wifes Resident Status Refused.

[wprime]

absolutely disgusting behavior by the authorities

the are doing a really good job at being a pain in the ass when dealing with visa and immigration matters related to companions of normal citizens but seem unable to keep the common foreign pond scum out.

why pay tax when the bureaucracy is working against the citizen?

In most cases it is down to lazy staff rather than the bureaucracy actively working against the people.

[meatboy]

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.

there is southern island and northen isl.both have different passports with southern isl.not part of the uk.

[thaicbr]

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.

there is southern island and northen isl.both have different passports with southern isl.not part of the uk.

True. But it seems that those in northern Ireland can now get an Irish passport. He says he's British and Irish because his dad came from Liverpool and mum from Holywood, Belfast ...... by my reckoning that makes him British. But yet he is using his Irish passport and claiming EEA status .... why?

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited June 1, 2013 by thaicbr

[meatboy]

this bloke is not actually revealing what status he holds,he cant be a british subject because why would his thai wife want to apply to stay in the uk.under eea rules when she should have got a settlement visa in thailand unless she has come from another country outside of eea rules,but she is entitled to apply for a visa if she is married to a british citizen but his status is under question.as david said why dont they live here but he wont last long with his attitude.

[RAZZELL]

I've read this thread 3 times and still got no idea what the OP is on on about

RAZZ

[asiansun]

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.

there is southern island and northen isl.both have different passports with southern isl.not part of the uk.

lol the visa specialists are out in force today, i suggest if you do not even know some simple geography then you keep yourself off this one and stay on general topics .

[asiansun]

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.

there is southern island and northen isl.both have different passports with southern isl.not part of the uk.

True. But it seems that those in northern Ireland can now get an Irish passport. He says he's British and Irish because his dad came from Liverpool and mum from Holywood, Belfast ...... by my reckoning that makes him British. But yet he is using his Irish passport and claiming EEA status .... why?

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

exactly cbr, eea is a faster easier cheaper route ( apparently ) wife is thai national, i am british but hold an irish passport because my mum was born in northern ireland, a british national who has a parent born in northern ireland is entitled to apply for an irish passport, why ? i do not know , ask the visa guys on here. maybe meatboy can shed more light on it as he seems to work in ukba or at least has friends there judging by his posts

Edited June 1, 2013 by asiansun

[thaicbr]

 

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.

there is southern island and northen isl.both have different passports with southern isl.not part of the uk.

 

True. But it seems that those in northern Ireland can now get an Irish passport. He says he's British and Irish because his dad came from Liverpool and mum from Holywood, Belfast ...... by my reckoning that makes him British. But yet he is using his Irish passport and claiming EEA status .... why?

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

exactly cbr,  eea is a faster easier  cheaper route ( apparently   )  wife is thai national, i am british but hold an irish passport because my mum was born in northern ireland,  a british national who has a parent born in northern ireland is entitled to apply for an irish passport, why ?  i do not know , ask the visa guys on  here.    maybe meatboy can shed more light on it  as he seems to work in ukba or at least has friends there judging by his posts    

Ahhh OK. So you are attempting at circumnavigate the rules for a British citizen (do you have a UK passport? ) by using your Irish passport (have you ever resided in Ireland?)

Maybe that's your problem.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[asiansun]

no cbr, i have never resided in ireland ( south ireland ) i resided in a northern ireland when i was a kid for a while, i have allways allways resided in uk, passport stamps in both irish and uk passports to prove this. ukba from what i can gather refused my wife because her eea spouce was not resident in uk, they say i only provided evidence for 3 years something and that the onus was on me to prove that i had resided in uk for a full five years. they used the same excuse for my wifes child last year to refuse residence so thats why we went to court and won because the judge seen quite clearly that i was a uk citizen and was excercising my eu treaty rights and i had indeed been resident in uk for a full 5 years plus many more besides that, i have been resident in uk almost all of my entire life. the file i submitted for her PR had more than enough evidence of this, it was more than an inch thick with various papers/payslips/hmrc documents/letters/statements/passports inc stamps etc. so its beyond me why someone in ukba says i have not proven my residency in uk for a period of 5 years, when they sent application papers back with refusal letter my lawyer looked at all papers which were submitted and with a roll of the eyes and a tut just told me what a ridiculous decision this was.

anyway , i am not letting this topic go downhill any longer . back to court we go.

[Jay Sata]

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.

there is southern island and northen isl.both have different passports with southern isl.not part of the uk.

You've obviously never been to Ireland then. There is only one island with 26 counties in the south being the Irish Republic and six counties in the north forming Northern Ireland which is a self governing part of the UK.

Anyone with a parent or grandparent born anywhere on the island is entitled to an Irish passport.

Some people have been known to use the Irish passport to travel to Thailand thereby keeping the UK free from stamps. I knew one guy a few years ago who was renting out his council house in Luton while living in Thailand. It's also possible to use a relatives address in the UK for pension purposes while in Thailand thereby getting the regular increases.

UK and Irish passports are never stamped on exit or entry from Great Britain.

I'd still like to know what visa the OP's wife held which has now expired.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jay Sata

[MrZM]

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.

there is southern island and northen isl.both have different passports with southern isl.not part of the uk.

lol the visa specialists are out in force today, i suggest if you do not even know some simple geography then you keep yourself off this one and stay on general topics .

Honestly I had no idea there was a separate passport.

I understand you have gone down an easier route. But if you have the requirements for a spouse visa for your wife, then wouldn't this be a better route. Yes maybe more expensive.

Is your child a UK citizen?

[cardholder]

no cbr, i have never resided in ireland ( south ireland ) i resided in a northern ireland when i was a kid for a while, i have allways allways resided in uk, passport stamps in both irish and uk passports to prove this. ukba from what i can gather refused my wife because her eea spouce was not resident in uk, they say i only provided evidence for 3 years something and that the onus was on me to prove that i had resided in uk for a full five years. they used the same excuse for my wifes child last year to refuse residence so thats why we went to court and won because the judge seen quite clearly that i was a uk citizen and was excercising my eu treaty rights and i had indeed been resident in uk for a full 5 years plus many more besides that, i have been resident in uk almost all of my entire life. the file i submitted for her PR had more than enough evidence of this, it was more than an inch thick with various papers/payslips/hmrc documents/letters/statements/passports inc stamps etc. so its beyond me why someone in ukba says i have not proven my residency in uk for a period of 5 years, when they sent application papers back with refusal letter my lawyer looked at all papers which were submitted and with a roll of the eyes and a tut just told me what a ridiculous decision this was.

anyway , i am not letting this topic go downhill any longer . back to court we go.

you will no doubt advise us of the successful outcome in due course.

[manarak]

One of the foundations of our democracy is that all are equal before the law.

I, for one, would hate to see this eroded by a person applying to settle in the UK be given special treatment simply because they or their sponsor knew what you describe as an 'important person' or because their sponsor has a high income or is otherwise wealthy.

and why are people who have a sponsor given preference?

I can imagine the UK visa services to lack resources to properly examine everything. Speeding up would allow for more request to be examined with the same resources.

There is triage when medical emergencies occur, it's a bit the same thing.

Regarding the financial side, I find it absolutely normal that net contributors to the country's budget (plus people who would be exempt from this rule, such as pensioners, etc.) should be given priority in the processing.

Picture this: someone who doesn't owe tax invites people into the country, and these people are very likely to also not owe tax (i.e. freeloader attracts more freeloaders).

Besides the fact that I don't talk about barring these people from applying, isn't it true that these are exactly those immigrants that are not desired, because they are likely to burden the state even more?

I hold the belief that voting rights should be given to people who are net contributors to the budget through the taxes they pay.

Benjamin Franklin said “When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

Very truly, that's what the western democracies have promoted and what happened in many countries in Western Europe.

The right to vote needs to be tied to taxation.

And I see nothing scandalous in giving priority to people who do pay tax.

[7by7]

You obviously do not know very much about the UK immigration rules, especially those regarding family migration.

People with a sponsor are not given preference for the simple reason that everyone who wishes to settle in the UK via the family migration route needs a sponsor. That sponsor is the family member, as defined in the rules, that they are coming to the UK to live with. If they did not have a sponsor they would have no valid reason to settle in the UK and so would be unable to apply for settlement under the family route.!

That sponsor needs to be a British citizen or someone normally resident in the UK.

The sponsor has to meet strict financial requirements and the immigrant family member has no access to public funds until they have ILR; a process which now takes at least 5 years for an adult. Although their sponsor may claim any and all public funds to which they themselves may be entitled, they may not claim any extra due to their immigrant partner or child living with them; not even social housing.

That only those with enough money can vote is not a view I agree with; back to Rotten Boroughs and other undemocratic manoeuvres..

Today is Derby day, and the 100th anniversary of the sacrifice of Emily Wilding Davison. I agree more with her views on democracy and who should have the right to vote more than I do with those of a slave owner (albeit he had a change of heart later in life) who believed that only white, male landowners should be allowed to vote.

[manarak]

That only those with enough money can vote is not a view I agree with; back to Rotten Boroughs and other undemocratic manoeuvres..

Why should people who do not or did not contribute (in tax or any other manner benefiting the state) be entitled to participate in decisions that in most part today are about how much tax gets levied and how it gets spent (the management of western countries today is 90% economics)?

Why are people allowed to votre to grant themselves as much money as possible (that is what a socialist vote does)?

This is what broke the back of some Western European economies in the last 50 years.

I add that I don't require people to be rich to vote, I require voters to be net contributors to the state, i.e. these who pay for the services provided by the state decide how the money gets spent and if that amount is really needed.

Before, it wasn't much of a problem, because almost everyone was working. Today, the situation is much different.

Edited June 1, 2013 by manarak

[7by7]

It's called democracy.

"Democracy is the worst form of government there is; apart from any of the alternatives!"

Winston Churchill.

[manarak]

It's called democracy.

"Democracy is the worst form of government there is; apart from any of the alternatives!"

Winston Churchill.

“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

Benjamin Franklin

(and I'm not sure Churchill would disagree)

[Jay Sata]

I'm still puzzled on how a spouse visa can expire.

[7by7]

A UK spouse visa applied for prior to 19/7/12 was valid for 27 months; those applied for on or after that date are valid for 33 months.

When it expires the holder needs to apply to extend their stay or leave the UK; doing neither means they would be in the UK illegally.

But the OP's wife is not in the UK with a UK spouse visa, she has an EEA family permit. She did not strictly speaking need to apply for PR, but it is advisable to do so.

Why she was refused, he has yet to say.

[Jay Sata]

A UK spouse visa applied for prior to 19/7/12 was valid for 27 months; those applied for on or after that date are valid for 33 months.

When it expires the holder needs to apply to extend their stay or leave the UK; doing neither means they would be in the UK illegally.

But the OP's wife is not in the UK with a UK spouse visa, she has an EEA family permit. She did not strictly speaking need to apply for PR, but it is advisable to do so.

Why she was refused, he has yet to say.

What is an EEA permit and why would anyone bother going down that route instead of applying for a UK spouse visa?

[7by7]

It's called democracy.

"Democracy is the worst form of government there is; apart from any of the alternatives!"

Winston Churchill.

“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

Benjamin Franklin

(and I'm not sure Churchill would disagree)

I am sure that he would.

Churchill was a supporter, of sorts, of universal suffrage; in as much as he proposed a referendum on the matter whilst Home Secretary in Asquith's government. Asquith turned his proposal down.

But this is not a topic about who can, or should, be allowed the vote. I suggest that if you want to continue it that you PM me.

[7by7]

A UK spouse visa applied for prior to 19/7/12 was valid for 27 months; those applied for on or after that date are valid for 33 months.

When it expires the holder needs to apply to extend their stay or leave the UK; doing neither means they would be in the UK illegally.

But the OP's wife is not in the UK with a UK spouse visa, she has an EEA family permit. She did not strictly speaking need to apply for PR, but it is advisable to do so.

Why she was refused, he has yet to say.

What is an EEA permit and why would anyone bother going down that route instead of applying for a UK spouse visa?

See EEA family permits.

There are some disadvantages, but the main advantage is that they are free!

However, these regulations cannot be used by a national of an EEA state, e.g. the UK, to bring his/her family to the state of which they are a national; unless they have first been living together in another EEA state.

So, apart from the exception above, a UK national must use the UK immigration rules to bring their spouse, partner etc. to the UK to live with them.

[Jay Sata]

So the downside of a EEA permit is when it expires with the family living in the UK it cannot be renewed and a spouse visa is required? However surely the UKBA cannot deport the spouse?

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jay Sata

[manarak]

It's called democracy.

"Democracy is the worst form of government there is; apart from any of the alternatives!"

Winston Churchill.

“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

Benjamin Franklin

(and I'm not sure Churchill would disagree)

I am sure that he would.

Churchill was a supporter, of sorts, of universal suffrage; in as much as he proposed a referendum on the matter whilst Home Secretary in Asquith's government. Asquith turned his proposal down.

But this is not a topic about who can, or should, be allowed the vote. I suggest that if you want to continue it that you PM me.

that's fine - anyway, I think we have reached the point where arguments get replaced by ideology.

[7by7]

So the downside of a EEA permit is when it expires with the family living in the UK it cannot be renewed and a spouse visa is required?

No.

As long as the EEA family member is exercising a treaty right* in the UK then their non EEA family member can remain with them; provided they can support themselves without becoming an unreasonable burden upon the state.

Once in the UK they can apply for a residence card and after they have lived in the UK for at least 5 years with their non EEA family member then they can apply for Permanent Residence. See Residence documents for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals.

The same rules apply to all EEA states and the above is the method used by the UK of applying them; other EEA states have their own method, but the principles are the same.

*Treaty rights; worker, employed or self employed; jobseeker; living off independent means, e.g. pension; student.

However surely the UKBA cannot deport the spouse?

The UK can deport a spouse, or any other family member, if they are in the UK illegally or fall for deportation for some other reason; e.g. conviction of a serious criminal offence which resulted in imprisonment.

Edited June 1, 2013 by 7by7

[FDog]

I would have thought that a court decision would take precedence over the ukba deporting her. Surely the ukba must abide by that decision which they lost, and pending an appeal by them she would only have to apply to the court for a stay of deportation.

But anyway, seems the OP was trying to do the immigration on the cheap, ie: free but has cost himself a lot more in legal fees. Why he didn't just go the 'normal' route is beyond me as he just doesn't give details.

But I give him 10 out of 10 for ranting with no substance.

[MrZM]

So the downside of a EEA permit is when it expires with the family living in the UK it cannot be renewed and a spouse visa is required?

No.

As long as the EEA family member is exercising a treaty right* in the UK then their non EEA family member can remain with them; provided they can support themselves without becoming an unreasonable burden upon the state.

Once in the UK they can apply for a residence card and after they have lived in the UK for at least 5 years with their non EEA family member then they can apply for Permanent Residence. See Residence documents for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals.

The same rules apply to all EEA states and the above is the method used by the UK of applying them; other EEA states have their own method, but the principles are the same.

*Treaty rights; worker, employed or self employed; jobseeker; living off independent means, e.g. pension; student.

However surely the UKBA cannot deport the spouse?

The UK can deport a spouse, or any other family member, if they are in the UK illegally or fall for deportation for some other reason; e.g. conviction of a serious criminal offence which resulted in imprisonment.

It may be good for some. In my opinion it's a stupid rule.

[7by7]

I would have thought that a court decision would take precedence over the ukba deporting her. Surely the ukba must abide by that decision which they lost,

Her case has not been to court; that was her child's.

I think; the OP's posting style makes it difficult to say for sure.

Mr. ZM, not sure what you mean by "It may be good for some. In my opinion it's a stupid rule."

Are you saying that

• those who remain in the UK illegally should not be deported;
• that non British criminals should not be deported,
• both or
• neither?

Or are you referring to the EEA regulations on freedom of movement?

If so, remember that those rights apply equally to British citizens living in other EEA countries.

[Jay Sata]

So the downside of a EEA permit is when it expires with the family living in the UK it cannot be renewed and a spouse visa is required?

No.

As long as the EEA family member is exercising a treaty right* in the UK then their non EEA family member can remain with them; provided they can support themselves without becoming an unreasonable burden upon the state.

Once in the UK they can apply for a residence card and after they have lived in the UK for at least 5 years with their non EEA family member then they can apply for Permanent Residence. See Residence documents for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals.

The same rules apply to all EEA states and the above is the method used by the UK of applying them; other EEA states have their own method, but the principles are the same.

*Treaty rights; worker, employed or self employed; jobseeker; living off independent means, e.g. pension; student.

Forgive my ignorance but why would her permit expire and why can it not be renewed? I'm puzzled by this.

[7by7]

I, too, am puzzled by what the OP has said; but requests to him for clarification have, like in his previous topic, remained unanswered; so our puzzlement continues!