Demonstrations And Rallies Leading Up To The Election

[dog412]

the bangkok protesters against thaksin are offering exactly what to the farming villagers? if their protests have included them ,i have not heard. it is the village vote that seems to support him.if democracy is at stake, then the protesters must show a benefit to all thai, not just their own "educated" view.

[Plus]

So you are laying ground for future excuses - Sondhi and Chamlong planned it all along.

The blame for using the force will lie on those who used it.

Given that PAD haven't provoked anything in the past month it's a bit hard to believe your "believe". They had plenty of chances by now.

When people died in 1992 Chamlong was already arrested, don't tryto blame him for their deaths, or talk about a "precedent".

Chamlong was a hero of 1992, only an invisible minority thinks otherwise (if it exist at all).

[hammered]

So you are laying ground for future excuses - Sondhi and Chamlong planned it all along.

The blame for using the force will lie on those who used it.

Given that PAD haven't provoked anything in the past month it's a bit hard to believe your "believe". They had plenty of chances by now.

When people died in 1992 Chamlong was already arrested, don't tryto blame him for their deaths, or talk about a "precedent".

Chamlong was a hero of 1992, only an invisible minority thinks otherwise (if it exist at all).

There is an unwillingness to blame deaths on thearmy in Thailand however

[Plus]

the bangkok protesters against thaksin are offering exactly what to the farming villagers? if their protests have included them ,i have not heard. it is the village vote that seems to support him.if democracy is at stake, then the protesters must show a benefit to all thai, not just their own "educated" view.

They are offering to get rid of totally corrupt and self-serving politician, for the sake of the whole country. What do those farmers want? I'm afraid they don't think about the country - only about themselves.

Do you remember them saying anything apart from Thaksin is/was good for them?

[Plus]

There is an unwillingness to blame deaths on thearmy in Thailand however

More like unwillingness by the army to accept the blame.

Look at Suchinda, and look how army lost most of it's ground since 1992.

[ColPyat]

Given that PAD haven't provoked anything in the past month it's a bit hard to believe your "believe". They had plenty of chances by now.

Sorry, this is wrong.

Even though under-reported, during the first march to the parliament at night Sondhi and Chamlong have provoced violence at the police block at Saphan Pan Fa. While the other PAD leaders negotiated with the police general responsible for metropolitan region 1, Sondhi, Chamlong, their bodyguards and a small group of hardcore protestors pushed through the police blockage to the shock and surprise of everyone, including the other PAD leaders.

Fortunately police and everyone else kept a cool head, no demonstrators followed, so that Chamlong and Sondhi stopped and had to sit down until the negotiations were finished and the protestors were led through.

I think there was a small article on the incident in the nation a day or two after.

[ColPyat]

What do those farmers want? I'm afraid they don't think about the country - only about themselves.

The farmers want to avoid a return to the old days in which they haven't gotten anything at all. Which is even less than the little they get today. They are the vast majority of Thai citicens.

Try to look at the situation from their perspective for once, try to imagine to be in their position. What does it help them to think about "the country" as long as the "country" only thinks about it's urban citicens and doesn't care about them?

Do you remember the years before Thaksin, or before the financial crises? Tell me please, what has been done in those years for the farmers in Isaarn and the North?

Edited April 2, 2006 by ColPyat

[jdinasia]

Given that PAD haven't provoked anything in the past month it's a bit hard to believe your "believe". They had plenty of chances by now.

Sorry, this is wrong.

Even though under-reported, during the first march to the parliament at night Sondhi and Chamlong have provoced violence at the police block at Saphan Pan Fa. While the other PAD leaders negotiated with the police general responsible for metropolitan region 1, Sondhi, Chamlong, their bodyguards and a small group of hardcore protestors pushed through the police blockage to the shock and surprise of everyone, including the other PAD leaders.

Fortunately police and everyone else kept a cool head, no demonstrators followed, so that Chamlong and Sondhi stopped and had to sit down until the negotiations were finished and the protestors were led through.

I think there was a small article on the incident in the nation a day or two after.

hmmmm so far I find the lack of documentation on that very strong evidence ....... <of what might be a valid question>

[ColPyat]

Given that PAD haven't provoked anything in the past month it's a bit hard to believe your "believe". They had plenty of chances by now.

Sorry, this is wrong.

Even though under-reported, during the first march to the parliament at night Sondhi and Chamlong have provoced violence at the police block at Saphan Pan Fa. While the other PAD leaders negotiated with the police general responsible for metropolitan region 1, Sondhi, Chamlong, their bodyguards and a small group of hardcore protestors pushed through the police blockage to the shock and surprise of everyone, including the other PAD leaders.

Fortunately police and everyone else kept a cool head, no demonstrators followed, so that Chamlong and Sondhi stopped and had to sit down until the negotiations were finished and the protestors were led through.

I think there was a small article on the incident in the nation a day or two after.

hmmmm so far I find the lack of documentation on that very strong evidence ....... <of what might be a valid question>

Well, as i said, i believe there was a small article in the Nation about it.

What else can i say other than that i was there and have seen it with my own eyes. For me, personally, this was a strong indicator for how far Sondhi, and Chamlong especially, are possibly willing to go to achieve their aims. Nothing more, nothing less.

[jdinasia]

still don't see it ......... should be easy to find if it exists ....

[ColPyat]

still don't see it ......... should be easy to find if it exists ....

I guess not that easy, i don't know if it even was at their on line version, it was one or two days after the first march to government house. A very small article, on page 3 or 5, on appearant tactical disunity between the PAD leaders.

Nothing important in the grander sceme of things, as the incident had hardly any consequences. For me though it was an indicator of how far those two might be willing to go, and a good opportunity to especially see a generally more hidden side to Chamlongs character.

It was nothing than a few very tense minutes that could have had a different outcome, could have changed things completely, but didn't.

[jdinasia]

1) I see no evidence that that article existed ...

2)I fail to find it credible in that if they thought there was risk they would not have done any such thing at that point

3)I do not draw the same conclusions from that "event" should it have happened at all; about Chamlong.

[ColPyat]

1) I see no evidence that that article existed ...

2)I fail to find it credible in that if they thought there was risk they would not have done any such thing at that point

3)I do not draw the same conclusions from that "event" should it have happened at all; about Chamlong.

1) Read it then:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/pag...d=5&id=20002137

Published on Mar 7, 2006

The action of Dharma Army chief Chamlong Srimuang and media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul in leading about 100 protesters to try to break the police blockage late on Sunday night sent a message that there is a rift among the leaders of the PAD.

2) Read carefully:

Anyone who was at Phan Fa Bridge must have heard the announcement from the commander of Metropolitan Police Division 1, who was in charge of the bridge, saying that less than 300 police were there to keep order, and were not to confront the rally. Some representatives of the PAD were negotiating with the police to open the way, so there was no reason to try and break through the police lines.

3) Well, you weren't even there.

What next?

[jdinasia]

ok I was wrong on 1 of 3 points .......

The first one. The article existed

The second point ... If they felt there was risk ... ... They must have heard the General tell the Army NOT TO CONFRONT THE PAD ... they knew the Army would back down ... unwise (imho) but apparently they didn't think there was risk.

the third ... seems like Chamlong is courageous to me ... a man of decent convictions a strong sense of moral certitude etc. since he was ultimately proven right (in this one instance) and probably reigned in by others (probably a good thing) I don't see that he Provoked anything or risked much.

But I am proud of yuou for finding the srticle ... I conceed I was wrong on one point!

[ColPyat]

ok I was wrong on 1 of 3 points .......

The first one. The article existed

The second point ... If they felt there was risk ... ... They must have heard the General tell the Army NOT TO CONFRONT THE PAD ... they knew the Army would back down ... unwise (imho) but apparently they didn't think there was risk.

the third ... seems like Chamlong is courageous to me ... a man of decent convictions a strong sense of moral certitude etc. since he was ultimately proven right (in this one instance) and probably reigned in by others (probably a good thing) I don't see that he Provoked anything or risked much.

But I am proud of yuou for finding the srticle ... I conceed I was wrong on one point!

Good, so we can go back to arguing facts.

It was a police general, and police stationed on the bridge, not army.

At that time there was high risk as it was the 1st march to the Government House and nobody exactly knew how the authorities were going to react, or how the protestors were going to react. The athmosphere was loaded, and both sides were more than tense, even after the first announcement of the police general.

Everybody knew that at the bridge were maybe only 300 police officers, but barely 200 - 500 meters further were thousands of police and army in full riot gear ready to intervene in case of things getting out of hand.

What the short article does not convey is how tense the atmosphere was at that particular moment. Everybody there was ready for anything.

I have never said anything against Chamlong's courage, that he is courageous is obvious. What i have stated is that he is a fanatic. Chamlong was not proven right, he lost a considerable amount of face during this incident. And trust me, he was very pissed off about that fact.

He was not reigned in by others in this incident. What reigned him in was that only Sondhi's bodyguards and a few hardcore protestors followed the two while the mob and police stayed put. As both realised they were isolated, after about 50 meters behind the police block they returned and sat down a few meters behind the police line, and waited out until the other leaders finished negotiating.

My conclusions are my personal conclusions, based on my close range personal observations, and you may not agree with them.

Nevertheless, i was there, and you wasn't.

[cmcarrent]

ok I was wrong on 1 of 3 points .......

The first one. The article existed

The second point ... If they felt there was risk ... ... They must have heard the General tell the Army NOT TO CONFRONT THE PAD ... they knew the Army would back down ... unwise (imho) but apparently they didn't think there was risk.

the third ... seems like Chamlong is courageous to me ... a man of decent convictions a strong sense of moral certitude etc. since he was ultimately proven right (in this one instance) and probably reigned in by others (probably a good thing) I don't see that he Provoked anything or risked much.

But I am proud of yuou for finding the srticle ... I conceed I was wrong on one point!

Good, so we can go back to arguing facts.

It was a police general, and police stationed on the bridge, not army.

At that time there was high risk as it was the 1st march to the Government House and nobody exactly knew how the authorities were going to react, or how the protestors were going to react. The athmosphere was loaded, and both sides were more than tense, even after the first announcement of the police general.

Everybody knew that at the bridge were maybe only 300 police officers, but barely 200 - 500 meters further were thousands of police and army in full riot gear ready to intervene in case of things getting out of hand.

What the short article does not convey is how tense the atmosphere was at that particular moment. Everybody there was ready for anything.

I have never said anything against Chamlong's courage, that he is courageous is obvious. What i have stated is that he is a fanatic. Chamlong was not proven right, he lost a considerable amount of face during this incident. And trust me, he was very pissed off about that fact.

He was not reigned in by others in this incident. What reigned him in was that only Sondhi's bodyguards and a few hardcore protestors followed the two while the mob and police stayed put. As both realised they were isolated, after about 50 meters behind the police block they returned and sat down a few meters behind the police line, and waited out until the other leaders finished negotiating.

My conclusions are my personal conclusions, based on my close range personal observations, and you may not agree with them.

Nevertheless, i was there, and you wasn't.

Um...

O.K. Time for me to own up.

I'm Chamlong Srimuang.

The actual scenario that day at the rally-march, one of the protester stepped on a banana-skin and slipped-pushed forward which causes the whole bunch of protester to push forward-towards the police-blockage.

I don't remember seeing any "Farangs" nearby that day at the pretest-march...are u sure u were there?

Believe me...if it was as provocative and/or as serious a result that may occur due to that small mis-communication during that protest-march rally which the protester pushed through the police blockage, no TV News crew would have let the news gone by without further exaggerating the whole thing.

By the way, all rally-march "would" have a possibility of confrontation which could lead to riots. That's unavoidable. At least, the rally-march initial aim wasn't to provoke violence. Not like Pro-Thaksin protester whom has shown nothing than violence and threat of violence so far.

First you have no witnesses to your presence at the rally-march. Secondly your anti-pad facts are mostly based on "YOUR PERSONAL ENCOUNTERS" without any further evidence and lots of "WHAT IF'S". It's really kind of difficult for other members in this forum to swallow; example, like I could anyhow say that I'm Chamlong Srimuang but do u think I expect everyone to believe me just like that?

Pls get real...or get a life.

[jdinasia]

LOL ... You very well Might have been there. Guess you should have written it up! Then there'd be a record of your 'facts'. Sadly ... none of that is what the press reported. Nor was it shown on TV.

So ... arguing the 'facts' would be difficult ... in a courtroom it would be "Objection; Hearsay, facts not in evidence" followed shortly by "sustained"

Having spent time at Pathom Asoke I have personal observations of members of Santi Asoke ... included amongst them would be "strong willed and rigid" but I would not use the word fanatic about the folks I spend a week with nor would I characterise anyone else that way without personally knowing them well. <though I would call the 2 farang I met there "Odd">

After carefully re-reading the article <in evidence> I see note of 100 protesters that try to force the police line after obviously hearing the General <police> say not to take action against them. I do not see the 2 PAD leaders got through with their bodyguards and none of the rest of the 100 ... in fact I don't see where it says anyone got through.

But I do feel properly spanked that any article existed ... and that I made a mistake regarding Army vs. Police General (General is not a normal police rank where I am from)

So ... have your last words .... then the mods can probably close this thread since the time frame has passed <Demos and rallies leading up to the election>

[ColPyat]

Pls get real...or get a life.

[ColPyat]

Sadly ... none of that is what the press reported. Nor was it shown on TV.

But I do feel properly spanked that any article existed ... and that I made a mistake regarding Army vs. Police General (General is not a normal police rank where I am from)

Well, take what i have posted here as additional information to the little article of the nation, that, until about 1 hour ago you have denied to exist. Some things that happen are not necessarily reported about, nevertheless they have happened.

And very strange for such an experienced observer that you are of Thai culture, Thai society, and Thai politics to make a "mistake" about well known ranking in the Thai police forces...

Hmmmmm....

[jdinasia]

Geeze .... 2 times I say I was wrong ...make this one moore time ...

I'll give your claims above all the belief that I think they warrant Probably a similar amount of credence I give to your other claims that you backpedalled on, rationalised or just made up

I mean we all make mistakes ... but hey Me making a mistake about ranks makes sense ! when I do I admit it instead of rationalizing, justifying and changing subjects It would be like if the had an Army Admiral here as soon as I thought Admiral I'd type Navy

Again ... this thread is probably due to close soon :-)

(mods if I was TOO bitchy ... feel free to delete this <I think I was just borderlibe bitchy!

[ColPyat]

(mods if I was TOO bitchy ... feel free to delete this <I think I was just borderlibe bitchy!

Having a bad hair day?

Anyhow, yes, i agree that we can close this thread now.

[george]

This thread is merged with:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65048