Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[Publicus]

It's never too late for the U.S. to revoke its passport irrespective of where Snowden might be. When the Immi officer slides the passport (biographical) page into the computer slot, "Revoked" comes up. That's guaranteed to put an immediate halt to the procedures wherever one may be. A man without a country.

The Guardian reported on June 11th Snowden checked out of his luxury hotel in HKG to stay in a safehouse. Whose safehouse? Provided by whom? A luxury hotel also. And who will pay the enormous legal expenses of Snowden's extradition and/or asylum lawyers, where ever Snowden might be located? His legal expenses will be huge, enormous.

Snowden said he studied Mandarin and it's now known he wired money to the PRC in Hong Kong in advance of his flight from the United States knowing he would never return for the rest of his life.

Snowden timed his illegal leaks to coincide with the Obama-Xi summit where Obama had already said he would take Xi to task for the cyber theft by the PRC of billions of dollars of research and development and obtaining information about the most highly classified U.S. military weapons and weapons systems.

There's more but that sounds like a lot to me to be suspicious of.

The sooner we stop Snowden feeding the CCP propaganda machine the better, asap:

Snowden’s Disclosures Tar US With Beijing’s Brush

Accusations suggest false moral equivalence, say experts

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/115111-snowdens-disclosures-tar-us-with-beijings-brush-accusations-suggest-false-moral-equivalence-say-experts/

NSA Leaker Snowden not Welcome in UK

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/108557-nsa-leaker-snowden-not-welcome-in-uk/

Snowden Driven to Leak by Ideological Fantasy

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/114644-snowden-driven-to-leak-by-ideological-fantasy/

The Epoch Times began more than ten years ago as a Falun Gong publication but by now has expanded into a global newspaper printed in 17 languages, sides with PRChinese dissidents, and is known to have excellent sources inside the PRC.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Publicus

[wealth]

This was also my first impression

http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19058271-nsa-leak-why-edward-snowdens-hong-kong-gamble-might-pay-off?lite

A great stage

"This is a place where you can make many connections," said Regina Ip, a Hong Kong legislator and formerly the city's top security official. "Our common law system gives Mr. Snowden plenty of opportunity to contest any request for rendition or for his asylum claims."

... Hong Kong was a British colony until it was returned to China in 1997. Under what is known as the “Basic Law” – the territory's mini-constitution – it has a well-respected and autonomous legal system based on British common law, with far stronger protections for human rights and freedom of expression than exists on the mainland. ...

[Publicus]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

It's as relevant and material today as it was then.

Total Recall If the NSA's massive spying operation sounds a lot like a Bush-era program ... that's because it is.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/06/19/total_information_awareness_prism_nsa_bush_poindexter

[wealth]

To participate, post your question below and recommend your favorites. As he makes his way through the thread, we'll embed his replies as posts in the live blog. You can also follow along on Twitter using the hashtag #AskSnowden.

We expect the site to experience high demand so we'll re-publish the Q&A in full after the live chat has finished.

here a better version of his online interview

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower

There will be more coming like that ...

don't miss out ...

[Ulysses G.]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

It's as relevant and material today as it was then.

Total Recall If the NSA's massive spying operation sounds a lot like a Bush-era program ... that's because it is.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/06/19/total_information_awareness_prism_nsa_bush_poindexter

Not any more. Obama has kept most of Bush's programs and added to them. In fact, he has been defending his "transparent" NSA spying program.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/06/18/obama_on_nsa_spying_program_i_am_not_dick_cheney.html

[chuckd]

Eric Markowitz | Inc.com staff

Jun 17, 2013

Edward Snowden: 'Truth Is Coming and It Cannot Be Stopped'

In a live online chat, NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden is answering questions about the PRISM scandal.

"All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me," Snowden writes. "Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped."

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/edward-snowden-truth-is-coming-and-it-cannot-be-stopped.html

It's as relevant and material today as it was then.

Total Recall If the NSA's massive spying operation sounds a lot like a Bush-era program ... that's because it is.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/06/19/total_information_awareness_prism_nsa_bush_poindexter

Not any more. Obama has kept most of Bush's programs and added to them. In fact, he has been defending his "transparent" NSA spying program.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/06/18/obama_on_nsa_spying_program_i_am_not_dick_cheney.html

"Bush made me do it."

B. Obama, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013,,,

[JDGRUEN]

Troops Targeted By NSA For Anti-Obama Views

The NSA is systematically monitoring the Internet posts and telephone conversations of U.S. military returning from Afghanistan, according to a civil-liberties attorney.

Video:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/troops-targeted-by-nsa-for-anti-obama-views/

[Publicus]

Troops Targeted By NSA For Anti-Obama Views

The NSA is systematically monitoring the Internet posts and telephone conversations of U.S. military returning from Afghanistan, according to a civil-liberties attorney.

Video:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/troops-targeted-by-nsa-for-anti-obama-views/

Your post has nothing to do with the NSA or Edward Snowden. It is . I'll specifically say why your post is completely off topic.

The guy was arrested by local police. The FBI had already left. The Secret Service, which was present for a very specific reason, had already left.

During questioning, the local police determined the guy, Brandon Raub, was in need of a psychiatric assessment by a professional - this police determination is in accord with Virginia state law. A mental hygiene professional questioned the guy and, in accord with state law, committed him.

The FBI subsequently issued the following statement: “When we left we had not arrested him, we did not touch him, we did not detain him. There are no charges pending.” The Secret Service had no comment, which I think speaks for itself in this matter.

ABC news, not some right wingnut "news" organization, reported that according to federal law enforcement officials the FBI received several complaints from concerned individuals about Raub’s postings. Certain other Facebook postings that were discussed at a court hearing on Monday for Raub focused on messages allegedly from a closed Facebook group that was not part of Raub’s public Facebook profile. ABC News was not able to obtain access to those private postings. Raub did publically post to Facebook on August 12, 2012, “Sharpen up my axe; I’m here to sever heads.”

The arrest and psychiatric commitment were done by local and then state officials and were in accord with Virginia state law.

Raub also publicly posted to Facebook that the entire family of former presidents G.H.W. Bush and George W Bush engaged in the secret sacrifice of children, that the entire Bush family does this while wearing robes.

The Richmond Times Dispatch quoted an Internet posting by a former Marine platoon commander, Sean Lawlor, who served with Raub in Iraq. The paper said that Lawlor called Raub an “excellent Marine” but quoted Lawlor as also saying, “Knowing the man that he is, I believe that he fully intended to act on the threats he was posting…We may never know, but the fact that law enforcement intervened may have kept Brandon from doing something extremely destructive.”

The former Marine officer is not known to have far right wingnut associations or affiliations or views.

Former Marine Detained After Alleged Facebook Threats

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/former-marine-detained-after-alleged-facebook-threats/

Marine Veteran Brandon Raub Sentenced To Up To 30 Days In Psych Ward Over Facebook Posts

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/former-marine-brandon-raub-is-being-held-in-a-psychiatric-ward-over-facebook-posts-about-911-2012-8#ixzz2Ws1l5mNX

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply deleted. (Now two posts deleted).

[Publicus]

If so, I hadn't expected anything along this line for at least a few more months.

The Washington Post reports the U.S. has asked the Hong Kong government to arrest Snowden now. The next step, which looks imminent, is to file with the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to extradite Snowden to the U.S.

Report: Espionage Charge Filed Against Edward Snowden

http://www.businessinsider.com/

U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage in leaks about NSA surveillance programs

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost

[wealth]

British secret agency, GCHQ (Government Communications Headquarters) is working under Codename Tempora and is worse than anything you have heard so far. Snowden's next big revelation.

GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

Exclusive: British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA, latest documents from Edward Snowden reveal

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

Edited June 22, 2013 by wealth

[wealth]

If so, I hadn't expected anything along this line for at least a few more months.

The Washington Post reports the U.S. has asked the Hong Kong government to arrest Snowden now. The next step, which looks imminent, is to file with the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region to extradite Snowden to the U.S.

Report: Espionage Charge Filed Against Edward Snowden

http://www.businessinsider.com/

U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage in leaks about NSA surveillance programs

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost

extradite him from where? He's not in Hong Kong any longer I think.

[Publicus]

Edward Snowden leaves too many questions unanswered, such as his complete disappearance in Hawaii during the three weeks before he flew to Hong Kong from Hawaii. Snowden said he flew to Hong Kong May 20th but the owner of the house he rented, who said he wanted Snowden out by May 1st so he could sell the house, couldn't find Showden between May 1st and May 20th. So where was Snowden during this period? Was he with anyone, staying with anyone other than his ladyfriend who was living with him?

Another example of unanswered questions about Snowden's illegal national security disclosures is that both the Guardian and the Washington Post made an interesting choice in respect to publicizing Snowden's powerpoint presentation about the PRISM program.

Each newspaper limited the scope of their reports. The PowerPoint presentation referring to PRISM is supposedly forty-one slides long, but both papers only published four. Each paper said the remaining thirty-seven could cause grave harm if they were ever published. In his video confessional, Snowden said that he doesn’t want to harm anyone, but that these programs needed to be exposed. If he was demanding full publication, what is in those remaining thirty-seven slides that gave the papers pause even while Snowden wanted them unveiled? Are the papers being overly conservative with their reporting, or does Snowden not fully understand the magnitude of the information he stole?

Several people involved in the leak have said Snowden had been planning the leak since at least January — two months before he took his job at the NSA. Did Snowden take his job at the NSA planning to steal documents and flee the country? This would be premeditation.

Former presidential speechwriter James Fallows, writing in the Atlantic, raised questions about Snowden's authenticity in choosing Hong Kong as his refuge. Says Fallows, "Hong Kong is not a sovereign country. It is part of China — a country that by the libertarian standards Edward Snowden says he cares about is worse, not better, than the United States. China has even more surveillance of its citizens (it has gone very far toward ensuring that it knows the real identity of everyone using the internet); its press is thoroughly government-controlled; it has no legal theory of protection for free speech; and it doesn’t even have national elections. Hong Kong lives a time-limited separate existence, under the “one country, two systems” principle, but in a pinch, it is part of China."

Worse, as Fallows points out, in 2006 Hong Kong passed a surveillance law that makes the programs Snowden leaked seem weak in comparison. The New York Times reported that this law gave “broad authority to the police to conduct covert surveillance, including wiretapping phones, bugging homes and offices and monitoring e-mail.” Furthermore, the paper wrote, the law limited defense lawyers from questioning such surveillance during trials.

Unanswered Questions in NSA Disclosures: Could the real problem be Edward Snowden?

https://medium.com/editors-picks/3ab76bd69332

5 ways NSA leaker Edward Snowden's story isn't holding up

http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker-edward-snowdens-story-isnt-115500971.html

Edited June 22, 2013 by Publicus

[chuckd]

Troops Targeted By NSA For Anti-Obama Views

The NSA is systematically monitoring the Internet posts and telephone conversations of U.S. military returning from Afghanistan, according to a civil-liberties attorney.

Video:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/troops-targeted-by-nsa-for-anti-obama-views/

Your post has nothing to do with the NSA or Edward Snowden. It is . I'll specifically say why your post is completely off topic.

The guy was arrested by local police. The FBI had already left. The Secret Service, which was present for a very specific reason, had already left.

During questioning, the local police determined the guy, Brandon Raub, was in need of a psychiatric assessment by a professional - this police determination is in accord with Virginia state law. A mental hygiene professional questioned the guy and, in accord with state law, committed him.

The FBI subsequently issued the following statement: “When we left we had not arrested him, we did not touch him, we did not detain him. There are no charges pending.” The Secret Service had no comment, which I think speaks for itself in this matter.

ABC news, not some right wingnut "news" organization, reported that according to federal law enforcement officials the FBI received several complaints from concerned individuals about Raub’s postings. Certain other Facebook postings that were discussed at a court hearing on Monday for Raub focused on messages allegedly from a closed Facebook group that was not part of Raub’s public Facebook profile. ABC News was not able to obtain access to those private postings. Raub did publically post to Facebook on August 12, 2012, “Sharpen up my axe; I’m here to sever heads.”

The arrest and psychiatric commitment were done by local and then state officials and were in accord with Virginia state law.

Raub also publicly posted to Facebook that the entire family of former presidents G.H.W. Bush and George W Bush engaged in the secret sacrifice of children, that the entire Bush family does this while wearing robes.

The Richmond Times Dispatch quoted an Internet posting by a former Marine platoon commander, Sean Lawlor, who served with Raub in Iraq. The paper said that Lawlor called Raub an “excellent Marine” but quoted Lawlor as also saying, “Knowing the man that he is, I believe that he fully intended to act on the threats he was posting…We may never know, but the fact that law enforcement intervened may have kept Brandon from doing something extremely destructive.”

The former Marine officer is not known to have far right wingnut associations or affiliations or views.

Former Marine Detained After Alleged Facebook Threats

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/former-marine-detained-after-alleged-facebook-threats/

Marine Veteran Brandon Raub Sentenced To Up To 30 Days In Psych Ward Over Facebook Posts

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/former-marine-brandon-raub-is-being-held-in-a-psychiatric-ward-over-facebook-posts-about-911-2012-8#ixzz2Ws1l5mNX

Quote from your post:

"ABC news, not some right wingnut "news" organization,"

The right wingnut "news" organization you cited is called RT, an acronym for Russia Today. They are a "loony left" source.

By the way, all charges were dropped against Sgt. Raub and he is now suing for false arrest.

He served 3 days of the 30 day sentence so glaringly highlighted by your post.

"But on 23 August, a Prince George County circuit judge ruled that involuntary commitment order was flawed and and ordered Raub's release. "The petition is so devoid of any factual allegations that it could not be reasonably expected to give rise to a case or controversy," the order from W Allan Sharrett said."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/29/former-marine-facebook-sue-fbi

Edited June 22, 2013 by chuckd

[chuckd]

Obama finally decides to take some action...

Committee "dormant for the entirety of the Obama presidency"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama meets with privacy watchdog panel … in private

By Ben Wolfgang-The Washington Times Friday, June 21, 2013

President Obama’s Friday meeting with a newly reformed privacy watchdog panel will take place behind the closed doors of the White House Situation Room, according to administration officials.

It’s the president’s first sit-down with the recently constituted and little-known Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, created nearly a decade ago but dormant for the entirety of the Obama presidency.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/21/obama-meets-privacy-watchdog-panel-private/#ixzz2Wv3ePZvs

Edited June 22, 2013 by chuckd

[Publicus]

Troops Targeted By NSA For Anti-Obama Views

The NSA is systematically monitoring the Internet posts and telephone conversations of U.S. military returning from Afghanistan, according to a civil-liberties attorney.

Video:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/troops-targeted-by-nsa-for-anti-obama-views/

Your post has nothing to do with the NSA or Edward Snowden. It is . I'll specifically say why your post is completely off topic.

The guy was arrested by local police. The FBI had already left. The Secret Service, which was present for a very specific reason, had already left.

During questioning, the local police determined the guy, Brandon Raub, was in need of a psychiatric assessment by a professional - this police determination is in accord with Virginia state law. A mental hygiene professional questioned the guy and, in accord with state law, committed him.

The FBI subsequently issued the following statement: “When we left we had not arrested him, we did not touch him, we did not detain him. There are no charges pending.” The Secret Service had no comment, which I think speaks for itself in this matter.

ABC news, not some right wingnut "news" organization, reported that according to federal law enforcement officials the FBI received several complaints from concerned individuals about Raub’s postings. Certain other Facebook postings that were discussed at a court hearing on Monday for Raub focused on messages allegedly from a closed Facebook group that was not part of Raub’s public Facebook profile. ABC News was not able to obtain access to those private postings. Raub did publically post to Facebook on August 12, 2012, “Sharpen up my axe; I’m here to sever heads.”

The arrest and psychiatric commitment were done by local and then state officials and were in accord with Virginia state law.

Raub also publicly posted to Facebook that the entire family of former presidents G.H.W. Bush and George W Bush engaged in the secret sacrifice of children, that the entire Bush family does this while wearing robes.

The Richmond Times Dispatch quoted an Internet posting by a former Marine platoon commander, Sean Lawlor, who served with Raub in Iraq. The paper said that Lawlor called Raub an “excellent Marine” but quoted Lawlor as also saying, “Knowing the man that he is, I believe that he fully intended to act on the threats he was posting…We may never know, but the fact that law enforcement intervened may have kept Brandon from doing something extremely destructive.”

The former Marine officer is not known to have far right wingnut associations or affiliations or views.

Former Marine Detained After Alleged Facebook Threats

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/former-marine-detained-after-alleged-facebook-threats/

Marine Veteran Brandon Raub Sentenced To Up To 30 Days In Psych Ward Over Facebook Posts

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/former-marine-brandon-raub-is-being-held-in-a-psychiatric-ward-over-facebook-posts-about-911-2012-8#ixzz2Ws1l5mNX

Quote from your post:

"ABC news, not some right wingnut "news" organization,"

The right wingnut "news" organization you cited is called RT, an acronym for Russia Today. They are a "loony left" source.

By the way, all charges were dropped against Sgt. Raub and he is now suing for false arrest.

He served 3 days of the 30 day sentence so glaringly highlighted by your post.

"But on 23 August, a Prince George County circuit judge ruled that involuntary commitment order was flawed and and ordered Raub's release. "The petition is so devoid of any factual allegations that it could not be reasonably expected to give rise to a case or controversy," the order from W Allan Sharrett said."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/29/former-marine-facebook-sue-fbi

Yes, exactly. It was a local and state matter, not an NSA and Obama matter. It was deliberately misrepresented by another poster as an Obama and NSA matter.

The news source linked by the poster who raised this false issue was Western Journal, not the RT. The right wing Rutherford Institute was a prominent part of the Western Journal and its bogus report and charges that the case was a NSA and Obama case.

So now the facts are established, the truth did out, and we know the reality of the situation.

[FDog]

Edward Snowden leaves too many questions unanswered, such as his complete disappearance in Hawaii during the three weeks before he flew to Hong Kong from Hawaii. Snowden said he flew to Hong Kong May 20th but the owner of the house he rented, who said he wanted Snowden out by May 1st so he could sell the house, couldn't find Showden between May 1st and May 20th. So where was Snowden during this period? Was he with anyone, staying with anyone other than his ladyfriend who was living with him?

Another example of unanswered questions about Snowden's illegal national security disclosures is that both the Guardian and the Washington Post made an interesting choice in respect to publicizing Snowden's powerpoint presentation about the PRISM program.

Each newspaper limited the scope of their reports. The PowerPoint presentation referring to PRISM is supposedly forty-one slides long, but both papers only published four. Each paper said the remaining thirty-seven could cause grave harm if they were ever published. In his video confessional, Snowden said that he doesn’t want to harm anyone, but that these programs needed to be exposed. If he was demanding full publication, what is in those remaining thirty-seven slides that gave the papers pause even while Snowden wanted them unveiled? Are the papers being overly conservative with their reporting, or does Snowden not fully understand the magnitude of the information he stole?

Several people involved in the leak have said Snowden had been planning the leak since at least January — two months before he took his job at the NSA. Did Snowden take his job at the NSA planning to steal documents and flee the country? This would be premeditation.

Former presidential speechwriter James Fallows, writing in the Atlantic, raised questions about Snowden's authenticity in choosing Hong Kong as his refuge. Says Fallows, "Hong Kong is not a sovereign country. It is part of China — a country that by the libertarian standards Edward Snowden says he cares about is worse, not better, than the United States. China has even more surveillance of its citizens (it has gone very far toward ensuring that it knows the real identity of everyone using the internet); its press is thoroughly government-controlled; it has no legal theory of protection for free speech; and it doesn’t even have national elections. Hong Kong lives a time-limited separate existence, under the “one country, two systems” principle, but in a pinch, it is part of China."

Worse, as Fallows points out, in 2006 Hong Kong passed a surveillance law that makes the programs Snowden leaked seem weak in comparison. The New York Times reported that this law gave “broad authority to the police to conduct covert surveillance, including wiretapping phones, bugging homes and offices and monitoring e-mail.” Furthermore, the paper wrote, the law limited defense lawyers from questioning such surveillance during trials.

Unanswered Questions in NSA Disclosures: Could the real problem be Edward Snowden?

https://medium.com/editors-picks/3ab76bd69332

5 ways NSA leaker Edward Snowden's story isn't holding up

http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker-edward-snowdens-story-isnt-115500971.html

Well Mr Fallows is wrong, so wrong. Hong Kong is one of the most open societies on this planet.

I have no idea why you keep trying to dredge up things on Snowden then try to spin them to meet your own anti China diatribes.

Most don't care who Snowden is or what he did. What people care about is what the US govt, and the UK govt has been secretly doing.

That is the issue.

[FDog]

If Snowden is still in Hong Kong there is no way the US can get an extradition order. For that to take place Snowden has to be deemed to have broken a law that is in place in both the US and Hong Kong. Hong Kong has no laws re espionage. So no chance of that happening.

[Scott]

I assume an extradition or arrest warrant would prevent him from being able to legally leave the SAR. Is that correct?

[Publicus]

If Snowden is still in Hong Kong there is no way the US can get an extradition order. For that to take place Snowden has to be deemed to have broken a law that is in place in both the US and Hong Kong. Hong Kong has no laws re espionage. So no chance of that happening.

Hong Kong is governed in this matter by the Beijing policy of the defense or foreign policy interests of the PRC, of which the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region is a part. Beijing has the call in this and can call this either way. That is, it is or it isn't in the defense or foreign policy interests of the PRC. It's a subjective call that will be made in Beijing. If Beijing decides it is in the interests of the PRC to protect Snowden, then Beijing will protect him. If Beijing decides not, then Snowden will be gone quickly and decisively. I doubt the new CCP leader in Beijing, Xi Jinping, wants to cross Prez Obama so early in his reign over the PRC. Authoritarian governments always have a law or a rule or a policy to be flexible so they can be practical, i.e., to do as they please. Snowden thus is highly likely to be found, arrested on a provisional warrant, incarcerated, arrested on a regular arrest warrant while still behind bars, extradited, all in an arbitrary and speedy fashion. Beijing has had plenty of time to think this through and I'm sure has made up its mind. That is, Snowden's goose is cooked.

I assume an extradition or arrest warrant would prevent him from being able to legally leave the SAR. Is that correct?

Based on the criminal charges filed under seal against Snowden, the U.S. government already has asked the government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the PRC to issue a provisional arrest warrant against Snowden. The feds now have 60 days to file an indictment with the same U.S. District Court.

After the indictment is filed, the U.S. can request the HKG SAR to issue a regular arrest warrant against Snowden. In either case, Snowden would be arrested and incarcerated, most likely in the HKSAR maximum security prison (given Snowden would be such a high profile arrestee). Snowden will be arrested on the provisional warrant, later on a regular warrant. The only way Snowden can get off Hong Kong island now is to swim.

The decision of a provisional and then a regular arrest warrant rests with the Chief Executive of Hong Kong, who was selected by a 900 member committee of HKG people appointed by Beijing, save for a hundred or so elected by HKG voters. The chief executive is a direct agent of Beijing, not the residents of HKG. He needs only to sign an arrest warrant, provisional or regular, send it to a court for a judge to sign - the judge then hands the warrant over to the HKG police. Snowden at that point will be toast. No one in HKG cares about him save for a few hundred loners who demonstrated last week.

I haven't head anything but I'd be confident the U.S. government is in the process of revoking its passport issued to Snowden. That doesn't necessarily mean he must appear to surrender it. It means any Immi officer anywhere will see the word "Revoked" when he enters Snowden's passport page into the computer slot. If Snowden had been able to avoid arrest to that point, he then would be taken into custody by Immi officers and turned over to the HKG (or wherever) police for arrest and immediate incarceration.

My Chinese friends in HKG advise me that 99.9% of HKG hasn't any skin in this contest. They see this as a matter between the U.S. government and Edward Snowden. The widespread view is that the best thing HKG can do is to get out of the way, as quickly and as cleanly as possible.

[chuckd]

If Snowden is still in Hong Kong there is no way the US can get an extradition order. For that to take place Snowden has to be deemed to have broken a law that is in place in both the US and Hong Kong. Hong Kong has no laws re espionage. So no chance of that happening.

Hong Kong is governed in this matter by the Beijing policy of the defense or foreign policy interests of the PRC, of which the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region is a part. Beijing has the call in this and can call this either way. That is, it is or it isn't in the defense or foreign policy interests of the PRC. It's a subjective call that will be made in Beijing. If Beijing decides it is in the interests of the PRC to protect Snowden, then Beijing will protect him. If Beijing decides not, then Snowden will be gone quickly and decisively. I doubt the new CCP leader in Beijing, Xi Jinping, wants to cross Prez Obama so early in his reign over the PRC. Authoritarian governments always have a law or a rule or a policy to be flexible so they can be practical, i.e., to do as they please. Snowden thus is highly likely to be found, arrested on a provisional warrant, incarcerated, arrested on a regular arrest warrant while still behind bars, extradited, all in an arbitrary and speedy fashion. Beijing has had plenty of time to think this through and I'm sure has made up its mind. That is, Snowden's goose is cooked.

I assume an extradition or arrest warrant would prevent him from being able to legally leave the SAR. Is that correct?

Based on the criminal charges filed under seal against Snowden, the U.S. government already has asked the government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the PRC to issue a provisional arrest warrant against Snowden. The feds now have 60 days to file an indictment with the same U.S. District Court.

After the indictment is filed, the U.S. can request the HKG SAR to issue a regular arrest warrant against Snowden. In either case, Snowden would be arrested and incarcerated, most likely in the HKSAR maximum security prison (given Snowden would be such a high profile arrestee). Snowden will be arrested on the provisional warrant, later on a regular warrant. The only way Snowden can get off Hong Kong island now is to swim.

The decision of a provisional and then a regular arrest warrant rests with the Chief Executive of Hong Kong, who was selected by a 900 member committee of HKG people appointed by Beijing, save for a hundred or so elected by HKG voters. The chief executive is a direct agent of Beijing, not the residents of HKG. He needs only to sign an arrest warrant, provisional or regular, send it to a court for a judge to sign - the judge then hands the warrant over to the HKG police. Snowden at that point will be toast. No one in HKG cares about him save for a few hundred loners who demonstrated last week.

I haven't head anything but I'd be confident the U.S. government is in the process of revoking its passport issued to Snowden. That doesn't necessarily mean he must appear to surrender it. It means any Immi officer anywhere will see the word "Revoked" when he enters Snowden's passport page into the computer slot. If Snowden had been able to avoid arrest to that point, he then would be taken into custody by Immi officers and turned over to the HKG (or wherever) police for arrest and immediate incarceration.

My Chinese friends in HKG advise me that 99.9% of HKG hasn't any skin in this contest. They see this as a matter between the U.S. government and Edward Snowden. The widespread view is that the best thing HKG can do is to get out of the way, as quickly and as cleanly as possible.

Snowden has been tried and convicted by some on TVF, so let's see what the Hong Kong authorities have to say.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ex-Contractor Is Charged in Leaks on N.S.A. Surveillance

...from the article...

"Hong Kong has limited autonomy, but matters involving national security and foreign policy are controlled by the Chinese government in Beijing. Regina Ip, a former Hong Kong secretary of security and a current legislator, said Saturday that Hong Kong authorities had “no choice but to comply” with an arrest warrant and that “our police will go and find Mr. Snowden.”

However, Ms. Ip said, Mr. Snowden could delay any extradition by claiming his is “a political offense,” or he could apply for asylum, “and those cases can take 10 years.”

...further...

"The charges against Mr. Snowden, first reported by The Washington Post, are the seventh case under President Obama in which a government official has been criminally charged with leaking classified information to the news media. Under all previous presidents, just three such cases have been brought."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/us/snowden-espionage-act.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[wealth]

well well a wound heals only on a healthy body and never on rotten policies.

Snowden has helpers from within as I stated since the beginning of his revelations. This is by no means a one-man show. Impossible!!!

He can play the "catch me if you can" as long as he decides or as long as the gov doesn't show sense.

Fortunately there are still enough freedom lovers.

If he tickles you from Dubai, don't be surprised.

[antfish]

The funny thing about this is that China's earlier ban of Facebook and other US services now appears totally justified and even wise, because by doing so they avoided giving the US material to manipulate Chinese VIPs.

but it was most likely a business decision. they have their chinese "facebook" "twitter" versions also their chinese search engine. why open the market for American competition?

facebook and google are in the first line business operations to make money. to idea to use them as spy tools probably wasn't there right from the beginning.

[wealth]

The funny thing about this is that China's earlier ban of Facebook and other US services now appears totally justified and even wise, because by doing so they avoided giving the US material to manipulate Chinese VIPs.

but it was most likely a business decision. they have their chinese "facebook" "twitter" versions also their chinese search engine. why open the market for American competition?

facebook and google are in the first line business operations to make money. to idea to use them as spy tools probably wasn't there right from the beginning.

Google and FB were setup as spy tools from the time they went into the stock market. Goldman Sucks! - is one of the top in the pyramid/prism scam. Facebook was groomed for data whoring right from the beginning.

Now we should concentrate also on the UK issue. This is bigger than the one from the US regime (It's not my invention, some high in business within the regime is using this term).

There is still more to come. Much more ...

[Scott]

A conspiracy theory post has been deleted. If it continues, suspensions will be given.

[JDGRUEN]

I assume an extradition or arrest warrant would prevent him from being able to legally leave the SAR. Is that correct?

In speculation of what will happen to Snowden... Unless he has already been arrested or detained, here is another option that could happen. As happened to the Shaw of Iran as a part of the Iranian Hostage Crisis, the U.S. did not hand the Shaw over to the Iranian Mullah Authorities as they had demanded, but rather 'arranged' for him to go to Panama... later he went to Egypt. In Snowden's case it would be much simpler for China working with the Hong Kong government just to 'arrange' for Snowden to go to Iceland (and take up the offer there for sanctuary) with no attention paid to formalities of visas and passports. Once gone China and Hong Kong could just wash their hands of the whole incident. Leaving the U.S. to solve its own problems.

[manarak]

I assume an extradition or arrest warrant would prevent him from being able to legally leave the SAR. Is that correct?

In speculation of what will happen to Snowden... Unless he has already been arrested or detained, here is another option that could happen. As happened to the Shaw of Iran as a part of the Iranian Hostage Crisis, the U.S. did not hand the Shaw over to the Iranian Mullah Authorities as they had demanded, but rather 'arranged' for him to go to Panama... later he went to Egypt. In Snowden's case it would be much simpler for China working with the Hong Kong government just to 'arrange' for Snowden to go to Iceland (and take up the offer there for sanctuary) with no attention paid to formalities of visas and passports. Once gone China and Hong Kong could just wash their hands of the whole incident. Leaving the U.S. to solve its own problems.

China cannot hand Snowden over to the USA, that would send a very bad signal to potential future US defectors.

I think the scenario that Snowden will just disappear from Hong Kong as outlined above is very likely.

Also, I would be surprised if he didn't carefully plan his escape before coming out with the news.

[lannarebirth]

The case against the US government:

http://www.aclu.org/national-security-technology-and-liberty/how-nsas-surveillance-procedures-threaten-americans-privacy

Petition to pardon Edward Snowden:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD

Edited June 22, 2013 by lannarebirth

[F430murci]

The funny thing about this is that China's earlier ban of Facebook and other US services now appears totally justified and even wise, because by doing so they avoided giving the US material to manipulate Chinese VIPs.

but it was most likely a business decision. they have their chinese "facebook" "twitter" versions also their chinese search engine. why open the market for American competition?

facebook and google are in the first line business operations to make money. to idea to use them as spy tools probably wasn't there right from the beginning.

Exactly, China ignores intellectal property rights, infringes and steals with no regard to laws most of the world follows.

[antfish]

I also notice the compulsory swipe at Prez Obama in your post. Journalists are learning there are new rules to apply in the matters of terrorism, terrorists and national security, rules the public understands and accepts. Snowden and the media did a lot of harm to the United States as pointed out by the heads of the FBI, NSA and other alphabet soup national security agencies and operations. We're talking about global security here in a new age of asymmetric non-state warfare. The Boston Marathon bombings suspects brought that home to me too. Or is it that you just can't get past Prez Barack Obama? I'd be disappointed to find out you are a just another Confederate.

I don't think that Obama has the power to dictate the journalists at the Guardian in the UK his new rules of press freedom. And i doubt that the Boston Marathon bombing happened because of to much press freedom.

the internet maybe gave the security agencies more power to spy on people but it limit also their power on media control. they can maybe censor newspapers in the USA, but not everything on the internet.

What should be the new rules journalists have to learn anyway? Probably only something about who they thought to be the good guy, but now its time to realize that he is actually one of the bad guys.