Abhisit's Rice Scheme Probed

[whybother]

As long as the rice farmer benefitted, always bound to draw a little criticism from the expat tax payer........

Wait a minute...............where are the crticising expat taxpayers on this thread.......

The criticism from "the expat tax payer" is not about the farmer benefiting, it's about the millers and middlemen benefiting instead of the farmer.

Right.......so the millers and middlemen benefit from the PTP scheme.......but not the Abhisit scheme.......ok I see where you are coming from now.....

The farmers were being paid directly by the government, so the money didn't go through the millers or middlemen.

[smedly]

PTP Petition DSI to investigate Moody's for investigating PTP and creating a Circus

Department Of Stupid Investigations

[DLock]

As long as the rice farmer benefitted, always bound to draw a little criticism from the expat tax payer........

Wait a minute...............where are the crticising expat taxpayers on this thread.......

The criticism from "the expat tax payer" is not about the farmer benefiting, it's about the millers and middlemen benefiting instead of the farmer.

Right.......so the millers and middlemen benefit from the PTP scheme.......but not the Abhisit scheme.......ok I see where you are coming from now.....

You're not really up to speed on this are you?

[yoshiwara]

As long as the rice farmer benefitted, always bound to draw a little criticism from the expat tax payer........

Wait a minute...............where are the crticising expat taxpayers on this thread.......

The criticism from "the expat tax payer" is not about the farmer benefiting, it's about the millers and middlemen benefiting instead of the farmer.

Right.......so the millers and middlemen benefit from the PTP scheme.......but not the Abhisit scheme.......ok I see where you are coming from now.....

You're not really up to speed on this are you?

Oh they're up to speed all right. Its just that they have a job to do.

[kimamey]

As long as the rice farmer benefitted, always bound to draw a little criticism from the expat tax payer........

Wait a minute...............where are the crticising expat taxpayers on this thread.......

The criticism from "the expat tax payer" is not about the farmer benefiting, it's about the millers and middlemen benefiting instead of the farmer.

Right.......so the millers and middlemen benefit from the PTP scheme.......but not the Abhisit scheme.......ok I see where you are coming from now.....

The farmers were being paid directly by the government, so the money didn't go through the millers or middlemen.

I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers.

If there's a problem with the figures then it should be investigated but it does seem odd that the present government has so little idea of their own figures, including storage costs but have suddenly found a problem with the figures from the previous government.

[OzMick]

As long as the rice farmer benefitted, always bound to draw a little criticism from the expat tax payer........

Wait a minute...............where are the crticising expat taxpayers on this thread.......

The criticism from "the expat tax payer" is not about the farmer benefiting, it's about the millers and middlemen benefiting instead of the farmer.

Right.......so the millers and middlemen benefit from the PTP scheme.......but not the Abhisit scheme.......ok I see where you are coming from now.....

Congratulations, you finally got there after 3 years and countless repetitions. But I have a feeling it will be forgotten by the next lap of your fishbowl.

[waza]

As long as the rice farmer benefitted, always bound to draw a little criticism from the expat tax payer........

Wait a minute...............where are the crticising expat taxpayers on this thread.......

The criticism from "the expat tax payer" is not about the farmer benefiting, it's about the millers and middlemen benefiting instead of the farmer.

Right.......so the millers and middlemen benefit from the PTP scheme.......but not the Abhisit scheme.......ok I see where you are coming from now.....

Congratulations, you finally got there after 3 years and countless repetitions. But I have a feeling it will be forgotten by the next lap of your fishbowl.

or another round at the bar

[Robby nz]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

[kimamey]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

It's not really about rice farming though is it? In the same way the luxury car tax scandal isn't something I'd ask a motor mechanic about.

[Ricardo]

Is this shifting the blame?

Surely you already knew that it has always been the Dems that were manageing the megga heists (called corruption) against the Thai people. The hope is that PTP can prevent polititians of all persuasions from stealing money from the people.

A vain hope, I fear.

But would you now agree, that the Dems/Abhisit scheme was better than the PTP's retread of the old TRT-one, in that it got the extra money to the people in need, the farmers rather than the middle-men, thus reducing (but probably not eliminating) the opportunities for corruption along-the-way ?

[Tatsujin]

Prompong added that the action is not in retaliation against the criticism of the Pheu Thai-led government's own rice-pledging scheme.

Right . . . they must think people are stupid . . . oh wait . . . that's exactly what they think . . . and have been proven right on many occasions.

Hey, I've gone from being banned to being "popular" . . . yay for me!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Should be a good opportunity to compare and contrast, with the PTP government able to show how much more efficient the current scheme is at raising the income of poor farmers - or not.

Could turn out to be the biggest classic 'own goal' yet...........hopefully!!!

[thaiguide]

"Prompong added that the action is not in retaliation against the criticism of the Pheu Thai-led government's own rice-pledging scheme".

That line says it all, doesn´t it?

[SICHONSTEVE]

"Prompong added that the action is not in retaliation against the criticism of the Pheu Thai-led government's own rice-pledging scheme".

That line says it all, doesn´t it?

Usualy when something like this is stated it means exactly the opposite in truth!!

[rubl]

So did the Minstry of Commerce offer some more 'up-to-date' figures on the 11th?

[I Like Thai]

My God, this PTP is so bloody childish, when will they just MAN UP and admit they have no idea how to run a country, ...............

The day after Western Governments admit it.

[smedly]

Moddy's does not want answers from AV or a past government - they want answers from the current government - something that seems to be an impossible task

It is so pathetic it's shameful - how on earth are these people still in charge, are thai people really that naive

[473geo]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

Expert enough to know 'the money' did not go direct to the farmers.......it went to the fertiliser outlets..if you bought fertiliser as a farmer you paid last years price.......if you couldn't afford fertiliser you sold your rice to the middlemen and millers at whatever they chose to give, no help for you, and guess what the middlemen and the millers still made money....do you think they loved Abhisit that much the waved their profit

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

Edited June 11, 2013 by 473geo

[Noistar]

Just when you think things can't get any worse.

Beats their TV comedy shows (cue drum-roll and cymbals)

[Noistar]

Of course its all Abhists fault

Isn't everything?

[Noistar]

Moddy's does not want answers from AV or a past government - they want answers from the current government - something that seems to be an impossible task

It is so pathetic it's shameful - how on earth are these people still in charge, are thai people really that naive

Yes, and ignorant and apathetic. The PTP show will run forever until the country wakes up

[kimamey]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

Expert enough to know 'the money' did not go direct to the farmers.......it went to the fertiliser outlets..if you bought fertiliser as a farmer you paid last years price.......if you couldn't afford fertiliser you sold your rice to the middlemen and millers at whatever they chose to give, no help for you, and guess what the middlemen and the millers still made money....do you think they loved Abhisit that much the waved their profit

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

I would call that an honest statement. I don't think I can explain it in a more simple way for you to understand.

Yes I did see some posts on here about it although I think I saw it elsewhere as well. Thaivisa is also where I'm reading your comment of course. Should I perhaps treat your post with suspicion?

I'm off out right now but when I get back I'll certainly try to find some more information about the Dems rice scheme and post again.

Be sure to check back.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Moddy's does not want answers from AV or a past government - they want answers from the current government - something that seems to be an impossible task

It is so pathetic it's shameful - how on earth are these people still in charge, are thai people really that naive

Pay them 500 THB and they are!

[Noistar]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

Expert enough to know 'the money' did not go direct to the farmers.......it went to the fertiliser outlets..if you bought fertiliser as a farmer you paid last years price.......if you couldn't afford fertiliser you sold your rice to the middlemen and millers at whatever they chose to give, no help for you, and guess what the middlemen and the millers still made money....do you think they loved Abhisit that much the waved their profit

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

I would call that an honest statement. I don't think I can explain it in a more simple way for you to understand.

Yes I did see some posts on here about it although I think I saw it elsewhere as well. Thaivisa is also where I'm reading your comment of course. Should I perhaps treat your post with suspicion?

I'm off out right now but when I get back I'll certainly try to find some more information about the Dems rice scheme and post again.

Be sure to check back.

And the Government says this domestic probe is being undertaken as a coincidence, when an international body wants answers.

Are Moody's aware that the Thai answer to every misdemeanor is 'he did it first'?

Totally pathetic.

Anyone seen the in-tray marked "things to do for the country and people of Thailand'?

[whybother]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

Expert enough to know 'the money' did not go direct to the farmers.......it went to the fertiliser outlets..if you bought fertiliser as a farmer you paid last years price.......if you couldn't afford fertiliser you sold your rice to the middlemen and millers at whatever they chose to give, no help for you, and guess what the middlemen and the millers still made money....do you think they loved Abhisit that much the waved their profit

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

I can't find anything that says that the farmers got money or subsidies through the fertiliser outlets. Just that they got paid based on production costs.

As proposed by the Democrats, the income-guarantee programme would be calculated on the basis of a farmer's production costs plus 50 per cent profit and Bt300 to Bt600 for transportation costs.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Rice-industry-backs-income-guarantee-plan-of-Democ-30158034.html

Of course, the farmers still need to buy fertiliser, and they still need to sell their rice.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

Expert enough to know 'the money' did not go direct to the farmers.......it went to the fertiliser outlets..if you bought fertiliser as a farmer you paid last years price.......if you couldn't afford fertiliser you sold your rice to the middlemen and millers at whatever they chose to give, no help for you, and guess what the middlemen and the millers still made money....do you think they loved Abhisit that much the waved their profit

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

I would call that an honest statement. I don't think I can explain it in a more simple way for you to understand.

Yes I did see some posts on here about it although I think I saw it elsewhere as well. Thaivisa is also where I'm reading your comment of course. Should I perhaps treat your post with suspicion?

I'm off out right now but when I get back I'll certainly try to find some more information about the Dems rice scheme and post again.

Be sure to check back.

And the Government says this domestic probe is being undertaken as a coincidence, when an international body wants answers.

Are Moody's aware that the Thai answer to every misdemeanor is 'he did it first'?

Totally pathetic.

Anyone seen the in-tray marked "things to do for the country and people of Thailand'?

Doesn't exist!!!!

They only have intrays or such things as:

Getting Thaksin back home.

Tea money sources (alternate income).

Beano's - countries to have short holidays in in alphabetical order.

etc:

[robblok]

As long as the rice farmer benefitted, always bound to draw a little criticism from the expat tax payer........

Wait a minute...............where are the crticising expat taxpayers on this thread.......

You are one of the least intelligent people I know, (at least about taxes) Have you ever heard about VAT ? Every expat here pays it unless you exclusively shop in mom and pop shops and don't drive a motorcycle or car.

Then again you are not even a real expat here just part time (with all the risks there are for those long distant relationships)

[Thai at Heart]

This little chestnut sitting in the Nation.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/TDRI-suspects-lower-rice-stocks-illicit-sales-30208106.html

TDRI suspects lower rice stocks, illicit sales

Kochaporn Suksuchit
The Nation June 12, 2013 1:00 am

The Thailand Development Research Institute suspects that the rice inventory held by government could be far less than the reported 17 million tonnes, as the system has given rise to illegal domestic sales so that certain parties could reap the benefit of a Bt5,000-per-tonne price differential.

The TDRI suggests that the government should limit the subsidy for rice farmers and refrain from price intervention, so as to avoid further fraud, corruption and illegal trading.

Contrary to the recent government announcement, based on a Public Warehouse Organisation (PWO) report, that the rice inventory held by the state was in the region of 17 million to 18 million tonnes, noted TDRI technocrat Niphon Puapongsakorn believes the actual stock level is only about 10 million tonnes, based on data compiled by the institute.

The government's rice-pledging scheme has been in place for the past two years, covering four producing seasons involving the harvesting of 24.4 million tonnes of rice.

Coupled with the 2 million tonnes carried over from the previous government, the grand total is 26.4 million tonnes of rice.

Hence, Niphon argues, the PWO's report that the rice inventory stood at 17 million tonnes means that as of year-end 2012, the government had been able to distribute as much as 9.4 million tonnes of rice without disclosing any of that amount to the public.

The government, on the other hand, has only mentioned the reimbursement of Bt120 billion to the Bank for Agriculture and Agriculture Cooperatives, of which Bt93 billion was from the sale of rice.

Based on this, the government sold Bt15,000-per-tonne pledged unmilled rice at only Bt10,000 per tonne, excluding other costs, he said. Questions arise, therefore, about the Bt5,000-per-tonne differential.

While data show sticky-rice exports of Bt1.06 million tonnes from January to September last year, in fact the rice-pledging scheme has no policy of using unmilled rice in place of sticky rice. Hence someone must have removed rice from the state's mills, Niphon reasoned.

Another observation is that since Thais consume about 10 million tonnes a year, and most of the rice stocks are held by the government, the domestic price should be very high.

However, the current domestic price is still Bt21,000 per tonne, which equates to Bt21 per kilogram or Bt105-Bt110 for a 5kg pack of rice, he added.

Another interesting point, he said, was that while the government had tried to keep the retail price at about Bt21,000 per tonne, it had perhaps been able to sell rice at only Bt10,000 in the market to rice traders, who had then sold it on for about Bt15,000.

The Bt5,000 differential probably then went into the pocket of someone with the authority to order the removal of rice from the state's mills for sale to traders, who likely distributed more than the computed figure of 9.4 million tonnes of rice.

In that scenario, the actual rice inventory in the state's hands should not exceed 17 million tonnes.

That is, in his view, what happened and the reason that the government dare not announce the actual figure of what it has actually sold. According to Niphon, rice brokers are typically used to source required stocks, earning about Bt15 per kilogram for doing so.

Normally, when farmers pledge unmilled stocks with the state mills, the pledged stocks will be milled and sent for storage at state-run warehouses via a PWO representative.

However, under the fraudulent method, the rice broker, or a person with political clout, will negotiate to buy state stocks from officials and ask the affiliated rice mills to deliver the produce directly to the rice-trading firm, bypassing the traditional route of sending the rice to the state warehouse, he said.

Thereafter, the parties involved in the fraudulent scheme will fix the figures in line with the amount of rice pledged with the state mills and the PWO.

Illegal domestic sales of rice in this manner would fetch Bt5,000 per tonne, or a Bt5-per-kilo profit for the trader. The exact illegal-profit figures depend on the actual quantity of rice sold illegally in the domestic market, Niphon added.

He reiterated that the government should continue to assist rice farmers, but not in the way it currently does so.

Every satang should reach the farmers, hence the government should place a monetary limit on the rice-pledging scheme, direct its support to poor small farmers and refrain from price intervention, as it will give rise to further fraud and corruption and illegal trading, Niphon said.

Oh no. If this is the case, then the expected losses from exports will be absolutely gargantuan if and when they get around to selling it.

When she got there, the cupboard was bare. I had a feeling that this might have been what was going on, and as long as you keep refilling the warehouses year on year and potentially making up how much was grown, this figure can be hidden quite nicely until you have an audit.

[Ricardo]

One recalls reading of auditors who showed up, in the 'Good Old Days' of TRT, to check a Chiang Rai warehouse which was supposed to have tens-of-thousands of tons of government-owned rice, only to find that the building was empty.

The rice had been sold-on to a country northwards, at a market-price which gave the warehouse-owner a healthy profit, even after he'd reimbursed the government at-cost for the disappearing-rice.

Happily this cannot happen now, since market-prices are so much lower than the government-cost, unless the stored-rice is merely stolen or made to disappear through dodgy-accounting, and the government never reimbursed.

But the men-from-the-ministry, and their political-masters, know exactly how much rice has been purchased & where it currently is, don't they ? As evidenced by their recent clear answers to media or opposition-MPs who wonder how the scheme is going ? Nothing underhand here ... move along ... did you see my nice new imported-car ... change the subject, quick !

[OzMick]

Watch it you fellas Geo is an expert on rice farming.

He said so on another topic.

Expert enough to know 'the money' did not go direct to the farmers.......it went to the fertiliser outlets..if you bought fertiliser as a farmer you paid last years price.......if you couldn't afford fertiliser you sold your rice to the middlemen and millers at whatever they chose to give, no help for you, and guess what the middlemen and the millers still made money....do you think they loved Abhisit that much the waved their profit

I mean what sort of statement further up the thread

"I don't know much about the Dems rice scheme but I was under the impression that the money went directly to the farmers."

Now where did you get that impression...on Tvisa perhaps

One lap, and all is forgotten because you know that rice farmers buy fertilizer and sell to millers and middlemen who are in business to make a profit.

Here it is again, the Democrat's subsidy was paid to farmers to spend on the things farmers buy. Next lap.