Vice govt spokesman disagrees with redshirts' actions in Lamphun

[Robby nz]

I can only and truly hope you're wrong

I sincerely hope it never comes to it Rubi.

For if there were a coup then the reds would instantly become freedom fighters, fighting against an oppressive army.

The army would then be the dictators and the reds led by Thaksin (from the safety of overseas) would be fighting for democracy.

It would not be as easy as last time to hold elections and I suspect the army would be forced to stay in power.

You can see how difficult it is to fight a hit and run group like down south, well translate that to the rest of the country.

Anyway that's not really the topic.

Has the minister of vice or whatever his title is come out and condemned the latest Chaing Mai violence?

And what is the Govt going to do to prevent a repeat at the next anti govt rally or Dem meeting?

Answer to the second question of course is nothing.

They seem to somehow think it is to their advantage to prevent anyone speaking against them.

But is it?

Or does it only piss ordinary Thai's off to see that sort of behavior?

It would be interesting to see photos of the cheerleaders of these actions.

Could it be that the same leaders are traveling round the country stirring up the locals?

[waza]

I can only and truly hope you're wrong

I sincerely hope it never comes to it Rubi.

For if there were a coup then the reds would instantly become freedom fighters, fighting against an oppressive army.

The army would then be the dictators and the reds led by Thaksin (from the safety of overseas) would be fighting for democracy.

It would not be as easy as last time to hold elections and I suspect the army would be forced to stay in power.

You can see how difficult it is to fight a hit and run group like down south, well translate that to the rest of the country.

Anyway that's not really the topic.

Has the minister of vice or whatever his title is come out and condemned the latest Chaing Mai violence?

And what is the Govt going to do to prevent a repeat at the next anti govt rally or Dem meeting?

Answer to the second question of course is nothing.

They seem to somehow think it is to their advantage to prevent anyone speaking against them.

But is it?

Or does it only piss ordinary Thai's off to see that sort of behavior?

It would be interesting to see photos of the cheerleaders of these actions.

Could it be that the same leaders are traveling round the country stirring up the locals?

The other answer would be to impeach the corrupt government, but its is evident that Thaksin is/has taking control of the judiciary and law enforcement agencies or removing their teeth, to counter this.

Edited June 15, 2013 by waza

[AleG]

The government's reaction to that incident, as reported on the other paper, is to threaten legal action against anti-government protesters for any violence that may ensue at their rallies.

Funny because they were obviously the victims of violence by Red Shirts buy we wouldn't expect the government to get into such details, wouldn't we?

The message being "Protest against us and we'll have you beaten up and then arrested for it".

[givenall]

And why did not anything to stop the reds

Sent from my ST18a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thai at Heart]

"I accepted this invitation not only because I wanted to visit a country that has made many achievements regarding democracy, or to exchange ideas and views on democracy. But I am here also because democracy is so important to me, and more importantly, to the people of my beloved home, Thailand......Why? This is because there are people in this world who do not believe in democracy. They are ready to grab power and wealth through suppression of freedom. This means that they are willing to take advantage of other people without respecting human rights and liberties. They use force to gain submission and abuse the power. This happened in the past and still posed challenges for all of us in the present". Yingluck Shinawatra.

It appears that the greatest threat to democracy in Thailand today is the Shinawatra clan their PT Party and its coalition government and their redshirt thugs.

PS: Is it just me or are the above videos unavailable?

No, the greatest threat to democracy in Thailand is, as it always is, the authoritarian attitude which still prevails amongst what's probably a majority of the populace. Democratic values haven't been assimilated yet because of decades of authoritarian rule and the encouragement of 'quiet politics', e.g. the avoidance of conflict (i.e. disagreement which is the basis for any true politics) and acquiescence to rule by a narrow section of elite society, whether they be from the military, aristocracy or more recently the business class. People, whether red shirts, yellow shirts, or the recently formed 'white masks', will appeal to democratic values when it suits their side, but will do nothing to stand for principles in themselves when it doesn't affect them. Many of the white masks are holding signs calling for the military to 'save the nation' (again) - and doesn't that prove that they've learned nothing? The same group that caused much of the trouble due to constant coups and interference post-1932 are being called upon again as potential saviours. And thus the same authoritarian structures & attitudes are perpetuated ad infinitum...

Watching the two groups in the video reminds me of Gregory Bateson's thesis contention that the cause of conflict tends to be symmetry rather than opposition. Historians of SE-Asia have described a 'solar polity' wherein political power is centralized and emanates outwards, diminishing in proportion with distance from the star. This is still a useful concept with which to analyze the personalized politics of the 21st century. Not much has changed since the days of Ramkhamhaeng in some respects. For instance, on the red side, Thaksin is the sun around which lesser politicians and political activists orbit. If you were to outline a similar cartography of power for the yellow shirts, you'd likely discern a very similar pattern, although it's true that names and faces have come and gone.

Such structures of power distribution are antithetical to any true democratic politics, by which I mean a democracy that results in a more equitable diffusion of power throughout society, rather than a democracy that means people get to vote every four years but nothing else changes. Unfortunately, none of this will change until democratic attitudes are inculcated. I believe there are people on all sides (by which I also mean no side) who share these principles and strongly believe in them. Coming back to Sombat, he may have more in common in terms of principle with some of the activists involved in the white masks than he does with many of the authoritarian red shirts. And vice versa. There are also people that are anti-Thaksin that aren't calling for military takeover, who don't want to see grandfathers dying in jail for sending SMS messages (true or not), neither are they in favour of beating up law professors etc.

Politics has become intensely polarized but amongst the majority it's more to do with personality and power than principle. As far as it's possible to discern broad principles in either group though: perhaps we could say that the red shirts are broadly promoting the idea that sovereignty resides with the people and some of the more liberal amongst the yellow shirts - who were certainly more prevelant in the early days of 2006 than they later became - were talking about minority rights and authoritarianism, they were against the idea that because a majority voted for someone that made everything he did legitimate. The way forward for Thailand would be for a group of protesters who combine both these sets of ideals to be pressuring the government and trying to exert a positive influence on wider society. Unfortunately, people on both sides have sacrificed principles - if they ever held them - in order to try make short term gains based on compacts with authoritarian power, whether that be Thaksin or his military and aristocratic opposition. This is why Michael Connors described those liberals who supported the coup as 'contingent authoritarians'. They believed that in order to safeguard liberal ideals, they'd have to become authoritarians on a temporary basis until the threat disappeared. Obviously in retrospect that looks dangerously naive. And isn't it - at least partly - exactly this sort of thinking that is preventing the country from moving towards genuine democracy?

Hence I'd urge any white mask who does oppose Thaksin based on democratic principles to stop calling upon extra-constitutional powers to step in and turf out elected governments. As long as they keep doing this, they'll continue to be a part of the problem, not a solution to it...

Great post.

[rubl]

So just clearing an empty mind, I'd say it's all the fault of the white masks who dare to demand the government to step down. Very undemocratic, they deserve to be threatened by peaceful red-shirts, police, the government and esteemed members here.

[Noistar]

Democracy. This is what the red shirt is fighting for. Democracy for the red shirt ONLY

It's called "one party Democracy".

The brain-child of the cowardly criminal, former prime-minister, cowering a abroad on his ill-gotten gains.

Should be in place just in time for his heroic return.