What Is A Ladyboy?

[The Coder]

Permit me to weigh in on some things said:

I have a totally unscientific theory about the lady-boys.

For many, many years now, large numbers of the poorer and least educated girls in Thailand have made a very good living in certain areas and "industries". The men are usually confined to less glamourous and lower-paying jobs...SNIP...A lot of men naturally would like a piece of that action.

Untrue! Most katoeys are content to work in offices, shopping malls, or cash registers at burger king rather than make a bee line to be a sex worker. Katoeys want feminine jobs not because it pays better, but because it's what women do. They also use the women's restrooms--no financial incentives there; it’s what women do. For the ones that do go in the sex industry, a major draw is because it may be the only realistic chance of earning enough to get the surgeries.

What is the situation like in the small villages scattered throughout the poorer regions of the country?

Umm, that's where a lot of them in the city come from. They come to the city for the JOBS, whatever that might be. And some stay back country. No different than straight villagers.

Do you see a lot of the young boys there dressing and acting like girls ?

I notice them pretty much everywhere across the country; Laos & Malaysia as well.

Also, some perfectly straight, women-pentrating men like to dress up in women's clothes occasionally.

This is something completely different: a transvestite.

I would think that most, if not all, guys who want to become girls must have some kind of psychological problem.

The earth was considered flat before we knew as much as we do now. Being gay was classified as a mental illness before we knew as much as we do now. I would expect transsexuals will also be exonerated eventually.

Well from my understanding transexuals were born like this - always knew they were a woman or man and unfortunately were the opposite sex

Dunno, but I can tell you that I know Thai identical twins in their 20's, both born male. One is career military and married. The other is a picture perfect ladyboy with all the ops. So I'm not sure it's genetic. But some will argue it could be due to differences of what happens in the womb.

[MarkBKK]

I would say Thailand is very accepting of ladyboys ... kathoey ... TG's etc

Far more so than anywhere else I have been ... but hey ... I do have to admit other than bad drag shows in Europe I haven't been around any CD/TV/TS folks

A very informed posting, then.

[AlexLah]

Ok maybe the OP is a troll maybe not.

Anyway I know a few transgendered girls and I must say they are mostly very intelligent and can talk about many subjects in depth, about life for example.

Some of them work in the bars others have regular job as beautyconsultant, fashion designer ore vet.

All of them are great people and fun to be with

For the poster that said that in Thailand he see more LB then anywhere else I would like to ask how many countries he have been , and which places he visit to come to that assumtion

To answer the OP question I would say: Any person that lives and dress like a female full time but did not have the full operation I would call ladyboy, which make sense as they are half half.

Anyway I treat them like a lady.

A strange thing I notice is that some of the girls who had the full op still say they are LB, is it because they cannot change gender in passport like in Holland?

Ore is it that Thai people call TG as: Saow Praphed Song (lady second class)?

OP, you are not gay when you talk with a TG ore LB ore just curious.

Many guy want to try but not with a guy but with a guy that look like a girl.

Open your mind!

Alex

Edited June 10, 2006 by AlexLah

[jdinasia]

I would say Thailand is very accepting of ladyboys ... kathoey ... TG's etc

Far more so than anywhere else I have been ... but hey ... I do have to admit other than bad drag shows in Europe I haven't been around any CD/TV/TS folks

A very informed posting, then.

Thanks ... but it is well informed on Thailand <noting this is a Gay People in Thailand> thread

and I shouls refine my statement ... drag shows and the whole drag scene in the US (particularly Denver and Dallas) should be included ... not to mention a particularly strange but fun ladyman that always went to Rendezvous in Wyoming ... (huge campout annually for the Wy LGBTQ community).

That being said ... other than knowing so bad DQ's fairly well .... my experience with the TV/TS/TG scene IS very limited ... but thanks for the approval Mark

[MarkBKK]

I would say Thailand is very accepting of ladyboys ... kathoey ... TG's etc

Far more so than anywhere else I have been ... but hey ... I do have to admit other than bad drag shows in Europe I haven't been around any CD/TV/TS folks

A very informed posting, then.

Thanks ... but it is well informed on Thailand <noting this is a Gay People in Thailand> thread

and I shouls refine my statement ... drag shows and the whole drag scene in the US (particularly Denver and Dallas) should be included ... not to mention a particularly strange but fun ladyman that always went to Rendezvous in Wyoming ... (huge campout annually for the Wy LGBTQ community).

That being said ... other than knowing so bad DQ's fairly well .... my experience with the TV/TS/TG scene IS very limited ... but thanks for the approval Mark

In my very limited experience in Thailand, mainly just Bangkok and over only about six years, Thais are very, very tolerant of gay people, transgendered people, drunk people, thieving politicians, etc., etc.

This extends to the families of gay and transgendered Thais I know. However, there is a world of difference between ''tolerant'' and ''accepting''. Most are tolerant, few are accepting. All in my very limited exerience of Thailand, of course.

As to what a drag show or the drag scene has to do with the transgendered community ... I have no idea ... perhaps the scene in Wyoming is very different to the rest of the US (OK, I only know the coasts) and Europe.

It may be the ''Gay People in Thailand'' forum, but this thread is called ''What Is A Ladyboy?'' ...

Cheers

PS Love the sightly annoying use of the term ''ladyman''. You could have great fun on a Japanese forum ... ''New Fiddy'' comes to mind

[jdinasia]

Sorry ... you may be selling ... but who is buying? Very very very tolerant vs. accepting .... same same but different.

having spent time all over ... accepting would be how I would describe most families here ...

the Th/Ch possibly being a seperate group that are less tolerant or sccepting.

[curious2]

Hi,

I'm new here, found the forum after seeing a educational show on TV and learned the proper name for ladyboys/kathoey then went searching.

Question is, do any of the ladyboys ever seek husbands? I would like to find a nice ladyboy for a wife someday, one that I could pamper and cherish and care for. But I would want her to stay pre-op. I think that's what so intruiging about them, they are a little more than a natural born woman. The TV show I saw said that 90% of them do not have the final surgery. I have seen some very beautiful ladyboys and thought how nice it would be to date and maybe marry one but I would like to find one that hasn't engaged in the porn and sex trade, a virgin if possible. I know that may be asking a lot but I'm worried about all the bad things people spread around ya know.

How would a middle aged guy that only speaks English go about meeting some nice kathoey ladyboy for possible marriage? If that's even possible? I think they are beautiful and erotic and there should be lots of ladyboys everywhere and everyone should just accept them as women. I do not consider myself to be gay, I do not like males at all, I only like women or ladyboys and I see ladyboys as women only with a little extra blessing. If I were ever to get lucky enough to find one to marry I would have to leave the US as people in the US are so hostile and very mean towards such thinking and way of life. Maybe I would be better off to move to Thailand and live there? Where can to find out about laws on becoming citizen etc?

Thanks!

[thankuverybig]

gotabeawindup

[PeaceBlondie]

The part that makes it sound so much like a wind-up post is that he wants a ladyboy who is pre-op, preferably a virgin, for a long-term sex partner, and considers the protruding sausage part to be an "extra".....okay, fine...but then he claims that he's not homosexual?

Well, how should I know. It takes all kinds...how about "at least slightly bisexual, since I'm a man who wants a man who's not a woman but just dresses like one"?

Oh, wait, here's a topic on another forum of ThaiVisa.com

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72198&hl=

Note its title.

[thankuverybig]

yes,anyway a facinating post.

if it is a wind up,the guy has imagination!

[toptuan]

Whassa "wind-up?"

[Ijustwannateach]

I think the whole thread has been a windup, but even as such it is revealing of a few things:

1. People who otherwise would never post on the gay section post on threads about ladyboys.

2. These "new" posters are most likely a combination of trolls and those with a genuine interest in ladyboys [who wouldn't normally post in a gay forum because they are not usually actually gay]. It is certainly true that one of the highest frequency search words related to Thailand is "ladyboy."

3. Some of these "new" posters are unaccustomed to thinking of themselves as a sexual minority, and as such will be insensitive to the subject even though it applies to themselves. Perhaps it is wise for us to tolerate a higher level of insensitivity even though a certain percentage of it will inevitably be trolling. On the other hand, perhaps Bambina and other TV/TS members will disagree, and they are certainly the only experts here.

"Steven"

[curious2]

Why the hostility?

I ask an honest question and am accused of being a troll or something worse? Sheesh.

I guess this was the wrong place to seek advice. Sorry to have bothered you.

[Ijustwannateach]

We get a lot of trolling on the gay section. I'm not saying you're one of them- but if the shoe fits, etc., etc. If you're aware of what "troll" means and have some experience with internet forums, you should understand why we have to be careful.

If you're genuinely interested, then welcome and by all means continue your enquiries. You may find, however, that if you wish to post on internet forums a thicker skin is required- especially on a topic that is such a troll-magnet even under the best of circumstances.

Good luck either way.

[Ijustwannateach]

P.S. Assuming you're genuine, all most ladyboys ever want is a "real" heterosexual macho hottie husband who will love them for what they are, or aren't as the case may be. All you have to do is get over here, walk around for awhile in almost any city, and you will probably have opportunities. For information on visas, look elsewhere on the forum.

[thankuverybig]

curios 2,i am very sorry if i caused offence,by implying that it was a windup.

my girlfreind actually knows a few lady/men,katoys & they're lovely girls.

if i was gay i'd ask one out myself.

i'll have a chat with her tonight.im sure she will be able to drag them in the internet cafe & you'll be able to get to know them better.

who knows we may get you married off yet!

[britmaveric]

Not gay??? A lady with smth a bit extra???

Please continue I'm having a good laff.

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, if you were gay you'd probably ask out a young gay boy. It's a common misconception that most gays are interested in ladyboys, or that they are interested in us. I'm a staunch homosexual, I am, and I didn't go to all the trouble of coming out to date someone nearly indistinguishable from a lady!

No offense meant to ladyboys or those that want to date them (and there are apparently many straight men who do). There must be some difference on both sides that makes it work- that's why I referred both to ladyboys and those who like them as "sexual minorities" above.

"Steven"

[Guest endure]

I still find it quite bemusing that many people seem to think that the gay section of TV is the appropriate section to ask ladyboy questions. In my opinion, by and large and as a sweeping generalisation, katoeys want a straight man as a boyfriend, not a gayboy. If you don't believe me, ask Bambi. Once again, as a sweeping generalisation, gayboys want another gayboy as a boyfriend and katoeys aren't gayboys. How many of the gayboys who post in here want a relationship with a katoey?

[Ijustwannateach]

^Yes, and you certainly couldn't explain this thread's 3000 views in such a short time on the basis of our normal gay crowd.

[PeaceBlondie]

^Yes, and you certainly couldn't explain this thread's 3000 views in such a short time on the basis of our normal gay crowd.

Precious comment by Ijustwannateach. There aren't even 30 of us who post regularly on the Gay Forum, and we haven't viewed this topic 100 times apiece.

Maybe we can start an entire, separate, new forum on ThaiVisa: "Not Gay in Thailand but Fascinated by Ladyboys."

To repeat myself: I went from straight in the USA to gay in the USA, Nicaragua, Mexico, China, and Thailand because I'm a man who likes men who like men who like men. Is that manly enough for y'all?

I agreed with a lesbian last month that neither of us can get excited about the other.

[Buki]

going back to the original post. I have seen a lot ladyboys in Thailand, and I find them very attractive. Though there are a lot of lady boys in my home country, but not as beautiful as the ladyboys in Thailand.

Though it takes a lot of understanding why they have become like that. There are many circumstances and factors why a ladyboy is a ladyboy. Some took it as a choice and some, see it as a destiny and add in psychological factors in it.

They are an interesting bunch. Some lead a normal life (working in ordinary jobs) and some with flamboyant jobs (entertainers) And what we need to have is respect and tolerance.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think the ladyboys in your home country look just fine, Buki, and they are better singers than the ones here, to boot. I heard one once in a karaoke place who could sing BOTH parts of "Endless Love" and sound perfectly natural.

Oh, heck- maybe we can serve an educational function here. Closet ladyboy aficionados reading this thread, welcome. You are just as much a sexual minority as the ladyboys themselves, and when you admit it your life will become much easier in some ways and more complicated in others, much in the same way that coming out as gay both simplifies and complicates things. You will have to explain yourself and your partner to others who may not understand, may find the idea repellent, may reject you, and may even want to do you harm because of their own internalised self-loathing. But you may also find those who do understand, love you both, accept you, and have been where you are before. And, there are a whooooooooole lot of lonely ladyboys out there- I get the feeling they have to carry torches a lot more often than even we gayboys, and not only because they're drama queens. So get over it already and get busy- somewhere there're a hundred thousand ladyboys sleeping alone.

"Steven"

[MarkBKK]

Sorry ... you may be selling ... but who is buying? Very very very tolerant vs. accepting .... same same but different.

having spent time all over ... accepting would be how I would describe most families here ...

the Th/Ch possibly being a seperate group that are less tolerant or sccepting.

I'm sorry. This is all my fault. I keep forgetting that not everyone reading and posting on Thai Visa is a native speaker. Please accept my apologies.

Tolerate: To allow something that one does not like or agree with to happen or continue to happen.

Accept: To agree with or approve (to feel or believe that something or somebody is good) of something.

For example, you may tolerate something, and not make a big fuss about it to save face.

In my experience, limited though it is to Bangkok in this instance, the families of Chinese descent (maybe because they aren't so Thai?) do seem to make more of a fuss about gay offspring, in some cases going as far as to disown them. But then I know a couple of families that are pretty tough on gay and ladyboy offspring in the North and Northeast too. But in general it appears to me that Thais are very tolerant all round, of most things. But when push comes to shove a lot of older Thais (especially) aren't very accepting.

And I'm not selling anything ... it's OK, ve hav meat here in ze building.

[farang prince]

Hi,

I'm new here, found the forum after seeing a educational show on TV and learned the proper name for ladyboys/kathoey then went searching.

Question is, do any of the ladyboys ever seek husbands? I would like to find a nice ladyboy for a wife someday, one that I could pamper and cherish and care for. But I would want her to stay pre-op. I think that's what so intruiging about them, they are a little more than a natural born woman. The TV show I saw said that 90% of them do not have the final surgery. I have seen some very beautiful ladyboys and thought how nice it would be to date and maybe marry one but I would like to find one that hasn't engaged in the porn and sex trade, a virgin if possible. I know that may be asking a lot but I'm worried about all the bad things people spread around ya know.

How would a middle aged guy that only speaks English go about meeting some nice kathoey ladyboy for possible marriage? If that's even possible? I think they are beautiful and erotic and there should be lots of ladyboys everywhere and everyone should just accept them as women. I do not consider myself to be gay, I do not like males at all, I only like women or ladyboys and I see ladyboys as women only with a little extra blessing. If I were ever to get lucky enough to find one to marry I would have to leave the US as people in the US are so hostile and very mean towards such thinking and way of life. Maybe I would be better off to move to Thailand and live there? Where can to find out about laws on becoming citizen etc?

Thanks!

First of all, Curious, same sex marriages are not allowed in Thailand and ladyboys are still considered to be males. Second, it would appear that you have a fantasy about ladyboys that you want to pursue...I don't think you have ever actually been with one. Ladyboys are humans...they are not toys. I have to seriously question your motivations. I have the good fortune of being in a relationship with a ladyboy. We have all the usual issues that face a couple, especially communication and cultural issues. But the relationship is working because of our mutual respect and acceptance of each other. I can tell you that there is no magic potion for making a relationship work -- whether it be with a woman, a man or a ladyboy. They all take work and sincere commitment. If you are sincere, I would suggest you come to Thailand and meet the people of this country -- all sexes. You will meet plenty of ladyboys if you are here for any length of time. Then you will see whether your fantasy is worth pursuing.

Farang Prince

[kerryk]

I have an acquaintance who owns a restaurant in Chiang Mai. He has a couple of lady boy employees. They both have Thai ID cards that say they are women.

I have no idea how this is possible but this is Thailand.

My question is do Thai men marry lady boys? If so are they treated just like other couples? Or would lady boys rather marry Farangs because they are going to be quasi outcasts anyway.

I assume if the lady boy does not have an altered ID card that they may be married by monks. But I don’t know if this is true.

[jdinasia]

marraige as seen by the Kindom is civil ... monks may perform a ceremony .. but the only thing binding is at the city office

[pkrv]

I note my posts in the past have caused some confusion - Perhaps if I simply posted some questions?

Why are there no lady grownups? - (I am being metaphorical - there certainly are, they just seem to not be recognised)

Is there perhaps and odd correlation with the bizarre concept that you have a choice to be gay or not? I never understood that one! Perhaps if you 'choose' to be gay you are attracted to ladyboys?

There is definitely no disrespect here, just questions. Horses for courses, is my own suspected answer.

[Guest endure]

Is there perhaps and odd correlation with the bizarre concept that you have a choice to be gay or not? I never understood that one! Perhaps if you 'choose' to be gay you are attracted to ladyboys?

Can you tell me why you think that men who are gay are attracted to what are, to all intents and purposes, women? Men who are gay are attracted to other men. Why is this so difficult to understand? Why do we get people asking the same question in the gay forum time after time?

[jdinasia]

Endure ... you know I adore you ... but please don't pidgeonhole all gay men into your definition of what gay is ...

some gay guys like femme ... some like butch ... some like old and fat (thank goodness!