Breaking Up in Thailand

[boosta]

Note this does mean slap her around. You need to follow your heart, listen to your conscience and then do what needs to be done.

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Note this does NOT mean slap her around.

Sorry typo there, not Freudian I swear!

[stickylies]

- smart

- non materialistc

- young and pretty

- no babies and doesn't want them

- no family take care on my part

- doesn't want to marry

when u add to that "owes a condominium (in the West), no mortgage, medium salary" u have my (non-thai) gal.

don't get me wrong, i like thai women, a lot, when they give me a massage (300 bath/2hours) or prepare me a meal (30 bath/plate), or extend my visa (1900bath), but that's about it. if u are looking for something "profound" (on the same level, u know, whereas i'm not saying my level is HIGHER, i'm saying SAME level, no more, no less) in a relationship and not just a female "taking care of you" in the broadest way of "taking care", then a relationship with a thai lady isn't exactly -er- optimal. no offense to anybody. maybe i'll change my mind when i'm 60+. maybe not.

[cpofc]

Its going to hurt.

Her (jealous) Thai friends warned her. They told her he was a 'typical farang' and would bale out on her, when the heat came on. Everyone talks about the lying Thai Bar Girls, very few are willing to recognise that farangs, 'trippers'' which the OP seems to be, are just as bloody bad in many cases. The door swings both ways.

No, the OP wasn't going to stoop for a lowly Isaan Bar Girl that he had to pay for and support. He wanted it all. Then after he got it, he realised he never wanted it in the first place.

The options for the modern, well educated, good thai girl are not as great as they are for, say, egalitarian Australians. The better the education, the better the job, the higher the salary, the better the family, narrows the field for Thai women. They cannot marry a thai man 'beneath' them. Is perhaps why so many modern (Bangkokian) thai women are opting to stay single and independant.

At 29, the average Thai female knows her 'clock' is ticking, especially her biological one.

She will be devastated. She has 'wasted' a very important year of her life. She has humiliated herself in front of her, I told you so, friends. Who knows what other 'options' she may have had before the OP came on the scene. Those 'options' would now well and truly have turned their back on her. She is now damaged goods.

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"

[boosta]

The multinational corporate world HR departments and hiring managers simply will not give credence to a CV with only a Thai degree if there are other equally qualified applicants with western degrees (or to some extent now the top ones in Singapore and Hong Kong).

Keep in mind the reputation of the country as a whole. It would take a very specialised niche to actually convince people you chose to live in Thailand specifically for career purposes, 99.99% of the time they will believe (probably quite rightly) that you were putting your personal preferences, possibly hedonistic ones, above your career, just living here at all is automatically a red flag to people with mainstream sexual mores.

And the qualified yes's above are ONLY for the top 3-4 institutions, the "and other state universities" does not apply at all IMO.

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Add Japan and Korea to the list of course, just less "hot" these days for western MNCs than Chinese-oriented. India's coming up too, Brazil and Russia for language/culture-specific, but I was talking more about technical globally valued qualifications, science engineering business/finance - in this case a Master's in Education.

Just can't see a Thai-based degree in that having much credibility.

[aTomsLife]

Its going to hurt.

Her (jealous) Thai friends warned her. They told her he was a 'typical farang' and would bale out on her, when the heat came on. Everyone talks about the lying Thai Bar Girls, very few are willing to recognise that farangs, 'trippers'' which the OP seems to be, are just as bloody bad in many cases. The door swings both ways.

No, the OP wasn't going to stoop for a lowly Isaan Bar Girl that he had to pay for and support. He wanted it all. Then after he got it, he realised he never wanted it in the first place.

The options for the modern, well educated, good thai girl are not as great as they are for, say, egalitarian Australians. The better the education, the better the job, the higher the salary, the better the family, narrows the field for Thai women. They cannot marry a thai man 'beneath' them. Is perhaps why so many modern (Bangkokian) thai women are opting to stay single and independant.

At 29, the average Thai female knows her 'clock' is ticking, especially her biological one.

She will be devastated. She has 'wasted' a very important year of her life. She has humiliated herself in front of her, I told you so, friends. Who knows what other 'options' she may have had before the OP came on the scene. Those 'options' would now well and truly have turned their back on her. She is now damaged goods.

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"

{He} has 'wasted' a very important year of her life.

I did no such thing. I was a secret the majority of the time. You think she wasn't talking to other men?

She was proposed to two weeks ago by the (wealthy) brother of one of her close friends. My point is I've wasted none of her precious time. She has never stopped entertaining potential suitors. (She is a beauty, truly, by standards Thai or western.)

[boosta]

Its going to hurt.

Her (jealous) Thai friends warned her. They told her he was a 'typical farang' and would bale out on her, when the heat came on. Everyone talks about the lying Thai Bar Girls, very few are willing to recognise that farangs, 'trippers'' which the OP seems to be, are just as bloody bad in many cases. The door swings both ways.

No, the OP wasn't going to stoop for a lowly Isaan Bar Girl that he had to pay for and support. He wanted it all. Then after he got it, he realised he never wanted it in the first place.

The options for the modern, well educated, good thai girl are not as great as they are for, say, egalitarian Australians. The better the education, the better the job, the higher the salary, the better the family, narrows the field for Thai women. They cannot marry a thai man 'beneath' them. Is perhaps why so many modern (Bangkokian) thai women are opting to stay single and independant.

At 29, the average Thai female knows her 'clock' is ticking, especially her biological one.

She will be devastated. She has 'wasted' a very important year of her life. She has humiliated herself in front of her, I told you so, friends. Who knows what other 'options' she may have had before the OP came on the scene. Those 'options' would now well and truly have turned their back on her. She is now damaged goods.

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned"

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Yes she'll most likely have to try for only other farangs now, or at least other foreigners.

But if she's attractive her odds are pretty good.

But of finding a "good" one?

Much harder than our odds of finding a "good" TG. . .

[boosta]

She was proposed to two weeks ago by the (wealthy) brother of one of her close friends. My point is I've wasted none of her precious time. She has never stopped entertaining potential suitors. (She is a beauty, truly, by standards Thai or western.)

-

Did the suitor know she'd been sleeping with you?

[boosta]

Most Thai men can't compete in our level of honesty, compassion, intellectualism, and just overall general quality of partner. Losing you is tough on her since she probably won't find someone of your status or level of culture for a while.

-

Another one bought into the dah-ling Thai man no good same-same farang spin.

Just being farang makes us so superior, we hear it so much it must be true.

[aTomsLife]

She was proposed to two weeks ago by the (wealthy) brother of one of her close friends. My point is I've wasted none of her precious time. She has never stopped entertaining potential suitors. (She is a beauty, truly, by standards Thai or western.)

-

Did the suitor know she'd been sleeping with you?

Of course not.

I understand your reply will be he surely wouldn't want anything to do with her now that he knows about me, but that isn't true. He's loved her for years. Thais are regular people, like us they can't help who they fall in love with.

[realenglish1]

Understand one thing about Thai woman. They are usually last in with a relationship but unlike western woman that put pre-conditions on a man a Thai woman once you are in there heart that is it. You are their man.

So you are shattering the woman's world by not saying Honey I want you will me overseas. I will arrange a visa for you.\

I have been with a 3 Thai woman in my life One married for 11 years one living with her for 5 years and now another.

I know how they think and do not think like western woman. So you have to take that thought out of your head

10 months or 10 minutes if they are with you then they are with you Its that simple

[saroq]

Thanks boosta, that was a great reply. We, however, are not living together. She would never go for that.

At present, we are still a couple. She is trying to get me to change schools. She says there are Thai schools of good quality, and that it isn't necessary to work at an international school in order to have a stable work environment. I am considering this option. As you say, she is still the woman I've cared about to this point. Nevertheless, with ASEAN around the corner, and Thailand growing leaps and bounds, an M.Ed would create much needed stability for me, before deciding to start a family here.

Boosta makes very good points and I agree with his comments. As to whether or not you should get your M.Ed or not the answer is absolutely. If you intend to remain in the field of education then getting out of the local schools with poor behavior and poor pay is a very smart move. Don't concede that goal for yourself, your future happiness, peace of mind and financial well-being if just as important as your gf's happiness. If you stay with your gf those things will be just as important for your family happiness together.

[mberbae]

Boosta is only partly right. I lived in Chiang kham - a very small upcountry town near the Laotian border. Believe me, there were 1 hour hotels

there as well. The fellow that wrote that... " 10 months is a long time for a Thai girl "... is wrong too. Thai ladies can outwait us very easily. You can read a gazillion stories

of all the farangs that finally give in to their Thai ladies and buy them the land and house they have been clammoring for since day 1.

Once they get it - very often things change rapidly. The sex stops, the family moves in , the farrang becomes a stranger in his own house. I am not saying this is always the case...but it happens more frequently than not.

Perhaps the lady wants the boyfriend to fund HER own quest for a PHD. But the key to all of this is - she is putting demands on him that will hamper his own future and possibly " their " future together.

To pull that crap about " you're just another lying farrang " is so immature and manipulative. She is showing her true self now. Best quit while you are still able

to. If she truly loved you, she will wait for you. ( Do not send her any money - by any means ). Love is love - not a commodity .

Good Luck.

mwb

[yoslim]

To OP move on dont worry if she is attractive..

my ex who was 36 at our break up is now one year later already married to a falang 10year younger than her, all the wasted time, clock is ticking bs only counts for ugly pigs

Edited June 20, 2013 by yoslim

[IMHO]

She's spent the past 10 month training her dog to sit, heel and roll over, and now it's off the leash and running away?!?

Bad dog!!

[GarryP]

Note this does mean slap her around. You need to follow your heart, listen to your conscience and then do what needs to be done.

-

Note this does NOT mean slap her around.

Sorry typo there, not Freudian I swear!

Definitely Feudian. Skipping/misssing a whole word cannot be classed as a typo.

[aTomsLife]

To pull that crap about " you're just another lying farrang " is so immature and manipulative. She is showing her true self now. Best quit while you are still able

to. If she truly loved you, she will wait for you. ( Do not send her any money - by any means ). Love is love - not a commodity .

Good Luck.

mwb

We've had two first-time TV posters on this thread -- the above and post #132: one demonstrated what's bad, the other what's good about this site's contributors. The above post represents the latter in my view. Great advice, great first post. Cheers.

Edited June 20, 2013 by aTomsLife

[rct99q]

This is why many of us cringe when guys say they want to sleep around with “good girls” instead of renting. You said it yourself, this is not New York, with rules and expectations being very different here. Personally I think she is right about you.

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy? Reread the first part of Boosta’s post. You are getting off easy

Wow, just wow. Who is sleeping around? I'm monogamous -- end of that discussion. I date "good girls" because I'm a decent, hard working guy. That you were inclined to use the P4P scene prior to getting married was your prerogative, but it's not mine.

So I manipulated her, did I? That is nonsense. I started out with sincere intentions. She is 29, a grown woman. We met, liked each other, got to know one another, and there were quite a few bumps in the road. Don't feel obliged to marry her, if that offends your sensibilities, so be it.

"In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her."

I'm sure that's true. But in some circles back home, particularly those involving my family, giving up on my career aspirations because I've had a Thai girlfriend for a few months could affect the way people look at me too.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy?

This isn't about a guy's versus a girl's perspective. My perspective is the same as hers -- happiness in one's career is of the utmost importance. There's just a double standard present when it applies to me.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote.

Actually there is a lot more right with what VF wrote then you know. The reply was, I believe. not generated specifically at your life item by item. but a general comment on mixed couples and the dating scene here in Thailand. It is different and not knowing the differences is what leads to this sort of thing happening.

Just curious and please do not infer anything nasty by this, do you and your current communicate in Thai or English? If in English how is her level of understanding? If in Thai are you able to understand her questions fluently?

Not the end all and be all of any relationship but here in Thailand it can be a big problem if you try to interpret what your partner is saying and comparing it to a Western situation (if that makes sense).

Good Luck, here or in the West these things are difficult.

VF wrote "I think she is right about you", and then proceeded to make snap judgements about my life. So don't tell me his reply wasn't generated specifically at me. Everyone just loves to agree with him... I know VF's status here, he could post about his bowel movements and probably still get a few likes...

To answer your question: We converse in both Thai and English. When we've argued, I've asked her to write to me in Thai explaining herself, that way there's no confusion.

My hats off to you, seriously. There are not many here that could carry on a conversation, let alone, read Thai when their girlfriends or wives wrote it down to them. Have been here over 4 years and converse mostly in Thai (written and spoken) and find it very difficult to fully express what I am trying to say in Thai (translating it from the english words in my head).

Very well done if after less than a year you can converse this well. Well done indeed.

[aTomsLife]

To answer your question: We converse in both Thai and English. When we've argued, I've asked her to write to me in Thai explaining herself, that way there's no confusion.

My hats off to you, seriously. There are not many here that could carry on a conversation, let alone, read Thai when their girlfriends or wives wrote it down to them. Have been here over 4 years and converse mostly in Thai (written and spoken) and find it very difficult to fully express what I am trying to say in Thai (translating it from the english words in my head).

Very well done if after less than a year you can converse this well. Well done indeed.

Thanks. Been here 2+ years, studied full-time last year on an Ed. Visa. I can read, but often require the assistance of a dictionary for a word here and there.

The arguments I referenced occurred while chatting online, so she would write to me in both English and Thai, and I could take my time reading and then respond kind. Usually, when discussing serious topics, it's best to write in both languages, to feel in any gaps of understanding or grammatical errors.

[David48]

We've had two first-time TV posters on this thread -- the above and post #132: one demonstrated what's bad, the other what's good about this site's contributors. The above post represents the latter in my view. Great advice, great first post. Cheers.

Boosta is only partly right. snip>

Good Luck.

mwb

I am particularly impressed that you have not only attracted the attention of some 1st time posters, but that one also went to the trouble of creating an Avatar before posting ... and a cute (wise owl) at that.

They should be congratulated ...

You should be both honoured and impressed!

.

[machans88]

This is why many of us cringe when guys say they want to sleep around with “good girls” instead of renting. You said it yourself, this is not New York, with rules and expectations being very different here. Personally I think she is right about you.

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy? Reread the first part of Boosta’s post. You are getting off easy

Wow, just wow. Who is sleeping around? I'm monogamous -- end of that discussion. I date "good girls" because I'm a decent, hard working guy. That you were inclined to use the P4P scene prior to getting married was your prerogative, but it's not mine.

So I manipulated her, did I? That is nonsense. I started out with sincere intentions. She is 29, a grown woman. We met, liked each other, got to know one another, and there were quite a few bumps in the road. Don't feel obliged to marry her, if that offends your sensibilities, so be it.

"In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her."

I'm sure that's true. But in some circles back home, particularly those involving my family, giving up on my career aspirations because I've had a Thai girlfriend for a few months could affect the way people look at me too.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy?

This isn't about a guy's versus a girl's perspective. My perspective is the same as hers -- happiness in one's career is of the utmost importance. There's just a double standard present when it applies to me.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote.

going by your name i always thought you were a woman...and was interested if the same rules applied in gay relationships here in thailand

a toms life....tom, the nickname for a lesbian in thailand

Edited June 20, 2013 by machans88

[givenall]

just leave and don't even tell her when. And never look back. that is the Thai style and I am sure she would do that to you if it was reversed

[boosta]

I understand your reply will be he surely wouldn't want anything to do with her now that he knows about me, but that isn't true. He's loved her for years. Thais are regular people, like us they can't help who they fall in love with.

-

Don't put words in my mouth, I just hadn't heard of a case where an ex-mia-farang had gotten good offers from Thais before. And I'm not putting guilt on you, her decision, her life, she rolled the dice and lost. Just be aware that Thais (and some farang) will definitely think you've done wrong by her by their standards. And sure Thais do wrong by Thais all the time.

-

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Boosta is only partly right. I lived in Chiang kham - a very small upcountry town near the Laotian border. Believe me, there were 1 hour hotels there as well.

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That doesn't contradict anything I've said, you may have misinterpreted an over-generalization.

Traditional Thai values in the city or upcountry include the men going around with whomever they like, as long as it's discreet and not acknowledged by those in their proper social circle, most Thai wives accept that as inevitable even if they'd never openly admit that.

[aTomsLife]

I understand your reply will be he surely wouldn't want anything to do with her now that he knows about me, but that isn't true. He's loved her for years. Thais are regular people, like us they can't help who they fall in love with.

-

Don't put words in my mouth, I just hadn't heard of a case where an ex-mia-farang had gotten good offers from Thais before. And I'm not putting guilt on you, her decision, her life, she rolled the dice and lost. Just be aware that Thais (and some farang) will definitely think you've done wrong by her by their standards. And sure Thais do wrong by Thais all the time.

-

-

Boosta is only partly right. I lived in Chiang kham - a very small upcountry town near the Laotian border. Believe me, there were 1 hour hotels there as well.

-

That doesn't contradict anything I've said, you may have misinterpreted an over-generalization.

Traditional Thai values in the city or upcountry include the men going around with whomever they like, as long as it's discreet and not acknowledged by those in their proper social circle, most Thai wives accept that as inevitable even if they'd never openly admit that.

Fair enough, didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Just curious, then, why did you ask if the guy knew whether she and I had been sleeping together?

[Longbow212]

I know of many similar stories to the OP's. There is no right or wrong answer. The same happens with women from other countries coming a living/studying in the west for a few years before moving back home.

I would disregard her verbal insults etc, this is just her thinking emotionally and lashing out - thats what women do. If she thinks calmly, logically and rationally she would probably agree with you but you can't rely upon a woman to do that no offense intended. In my experience Thai women handle rejection very very badly, even if they were the one trying to instigate the breakup when it actually occurs they take offense.

The OP had good intentions from the outset, he did not endeavour to be some kind of playboy. His circumstances changed and had to re-evaluate his options...thats life. He has to do what is in his best interests.

The fact it took so long for them to get together would suggest she was not that interested in him anyway, it would not have taken so long if she genuinely liked him as a person rather than viewing him as a potential suitor. She only reacted the way she did because he wanted out.

My unsolicited advice to the OP would be to not to waste his time considering her emotionally based outbursts and insults, stick to the logical facts of what you know is right and reflect carefully from this experience before starting a new relationship here.

[Scully]

I have split with girls but always stayed friends, at the time there were tears, but unlike many on here I talked and gave reasons. This was after warning about behaviours we both had which made us both unsuitable and trying to change them.

How keen on this lady are you?. This, to me sounds like you are not that bothered about her and this is why people are getting upset about you using

her.

There are such things as Visa's for her to visit you, done this myself without expensive help, all info needed is on this forum. Give her a chance to visit another country when you are settled or take her with you when you go, although I don't know about your financial status etc etc.

If she still complains she is not a keeper not being prepared to wait or travel, in other words the sterotypical girl holding out for future financial gain.

As I said, personally never had problems but Iv'e never had to say I am leaving for education, will be returning to Thailand but your'e not part of the equation.

[iancnx]

OP Said: To answer your question: We converse in both Thai and English. When we've argued, I've asked her to write to me in Thai explaining herself, that way there's no confusion.

RCT said: My hats off to you, seriously. There are not many here that could carry on a conversation, let alone, read Thai when their girlfriends or wives wrote it down to them. Have been here over 4 years and converse mostly in Thai (written and spoken) and find it very difficult to fully express what I am trying to say in Thai (translating it from the english words in my head).

Very well done if after less than a year you can converse this well. Well done indeed.

Totally agree.... hats off to you. My Thai is woefully poor. The OP has taken great lengths to communicate with his girlfriend; it would be a great shame to break up just over a difference of opinion over short term career moves.

I'm not a teacher, but I do have friends who teach here # in both University and regular rural secondary schools. My Thai wife is also a teacher, so I have a reasonable overview of the state of the nations education system. I can see why the OP thinks the Thai Ed System is not a good fit. I am struggling to see what an M.Ed would bring in the Thai context, at least in relation to teaching jobs? My understanding is you have to be a government official to get any senior job in the upper echelons of the Thai system? So my point is if you do return here to teach (M.Ed), the best opportunity might be the English department of a top top university. You could get a job in a regular university now without the M.Ed. in the provinces. Just curious.

[aTomsLife]

This is why many of us cringe when guys say they want to sleep around with “good girls” instead of renting. You said it yourself, this is not New York, with rules and expectations being very different here. Personally I think she is right about you.

By manipulating her into sleeping with you, it should have been clear to you what you were doing. In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy? Reread the first part of Boosta’s post. You are getting off easy

Wow, just wow. Who is sleeping around? I'm monogamous -- end of that discussion. I date "good girls" because I'm a decent, hard working guy. That you were inclined to use the P4P scene prior to getting married was your prerogative, but it's not mine.

So I manipulated her, did I? That is nonsense. I started out with sincere intentions. She is 29, a grown woman. We met, liked each other, got to know one another, and there were quite a few bumps in the road. Don't feel obliged to marry her, if that offends your sensibilities, so be it.

"In some circles, having a farang boyfriend and being dumped can affect the way friends and family look at her."

I'm sure that's true. But in some circles back home, particularly those involving my family, giving up on my career aspirations because I've had a Thai girlfriend for a few months could affect the way people look at me too.

You complain that she isn’t looking at things from your perspective but why would you expect a girl to look at things like a guy?

This isn't about a guy's versus a girl's perspective. My perspective is the same as hers -- happiness in one's career is of the utmost importance. There's just a double standard present when it applies to me.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote.

going by your name i always thought you were a woman...and was interested if the same rules applied in gay relationships here in thailand

a toms life....tom, the nickname for a lesbian in thailand

Yes, I know about the nickname of course. I just always figured I came across as a guy in my posts. Maybe I should reevaluate the signals I'm giving the world.

[cup-O-coffee]

aTomsLife, with all due respect, if I read your user name correctly, are you a woman? The reason I ask, out of respect, is that knowing your gender would make a whole world of difference here in how people respond, and in who responds. I detected no indication of your gender (forgive me if I erred in this), and so please do not be angry at my question. I would like to respond, but this is critical to the correct perspective and personal experiences based upon certain gender relationships.

lol. It's a double entendre of sorts, reads: Atoms = Life, or, A Tom's Life (my life). Tom is short for Thomas. I am a man.

Thank you. I guess from what I have read from your OP and replies, is that you are simply not ready to plant yourself and grow roots.

Your abject objectivity towards this relationship tells me that you could possibly underestimate her emotions and find yourself in a world of hurt. It is best to retreat to a safe base of operations and then turn your thoughts back to the eternal and unanswerable questions about women.

The few comments you made about her behavior and reasoning powers suggest that she is volatile and unpredictable at best.

Your "couch and chair" approach to this "friendship" is, in my opinion, going way overboard. Just leave and do it as quick as you can, and pay no heed to what you think she might be thinking. You are a better man than this, and do not deserve the mental stress that she will force you to endure should you remain and play psychoanalyst with her.

Respect; and all the best.

[boosta]

Definitely Feudian. Skipping/misssing a whole word cannot be classed as a typo.

-

Well I've never laid hands on a woman in anger and hope I never will.

[Eesat]

"Quite frankly, I don't think you know what you are talking about. A degree from Chula, Tammassat, KKC, CMU and other state universities in Thailand, are just as good as ones in the US , the UK or others. Such degrees are recognized worldwide. May I remind you that Chula is one of the best universities in the world (among the 100!!) So, please be careful with your judgement and don't be disrespectful!"

Let me see,Cambridge,Oxford,Harvard,Yale or.......Chulalongkorn!

Edited June 20, 2013 by Eesat