PM: Corrupt officials in rice scheme will be severely punished

[slapout]

I thought at one time that GWB had shown the world, the height of incomptence for a country leader, this lady has, and seems to continue on a quest to set a new target to aim for.

[mrtoad]

Does this mean that her and her brother are going to be severely punished?

[Skywalker69]

"she said .......... it could not be said if it was a losing or profitable scheme."

Her brother stated 9 months ago that the scheme would reap 300% profit. At the same time, it was pointed out that the Shinawatra's own millions of rai of rice farming land. (BP Business, 25/9/12).

I await the PM's declaration that neither she nor her family have profited from this scam.

This one I like. It is to the point!

It´s also shows that Thaksin isn´t that good businessman that everybody thinks.

[MaxLee]

"she said .......... it could not be said if it was a losing or profitable scheme."

Her brother stated 9 months ago that the scheme would reap 300% profit. At the same time, it was pointed out that the Shinawatra's own millions of rai of rice farming land. (BP Business, 25/9/12).

I await the PM's declaration that neither she nor her family have profited from this scam.

This one I like. It is to the point!

It´s also shows that Thaksin isn´t that good businessman that everybody thinks.

He isn't a business man, he's a criminal political crime lord and his feudal family clans and the Pheu Thai are his networks...

So there you have it...

[Skywalker69]

"she said .......... it could not be said if it was a losing or profitable scheme."

Her brother stated 9 months ago that the scheme would reap 300% profit. At the same time, it was pointed out that the Shinawatra's own millions of rai of rice farming land. (BP Business, 25/9/12).

I await the PM's declaration that neither she nor her family have profited from this scam.

This one I like. It is to the point!

It´s also shows that Thaksin isn´t that good businessman that everybody thinks.

He isn't a business man, he's a criminal political crime lord and his feudal family clans and the Pheu Thai are his networks...

So there you have it...

Most of us know he is a criminal but Thaksin dosen´t, he thinks he is a big businessman.

[waza]

Its amazing what they will say when polls show that the majority of Thais believe the PTP politicians should pay back all losses from this scam rather than the tax payers.

PS: If as they claim only HB 352 billion has been spent why does the BAAC claim its owed 600 billion baht......

"Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai, who also chairs the executive board at Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC), revealed at the Cabinet's mobile meeting yesterday that the BAAC has already transferred to farmers participating in the rice-pledging scheme more than Bt600 billion, which is higher than the Bt500 billion budget set by the government for the scheme." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Varathep-to-collate-rice-pledging-data-30208010.html

Please note that the THB 352 billion was for the 2011/2012 period. since then we've moved into 2012/2013 with the first harvest finalized. On 2013-06-15 we had the Minister of the PM's Office Varathep say "Bt155 billion was spent to buy 9.9 million tonnes of rice in the 2012/13 harvest season but the final calculations have yet to be completed." As 'at least' 59, 100 or 120 billion Baht was paid back by the government to BAAC we might be in for some better final 'final figures'

I dont thinks so the quote from the BAAC was PUBLISHED IN The Nation ON THE June 11, 2013 1:00 am. Also note that Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai, stated that it was, "more than Bt600 billion" it has been suggested the real total could be 660 billion.

Edited June 20, 2013 by waza

[Noistar]

What exactly is 'ultimate' legal action?

Banishment to the paddy fields?

The ultimate action (or like the PM also said "tough disciplinary, criminal or civil action") when everything else has failed may well be charging someone in a court of law. Mind you, the topic title has "severely punished".

BTW the ultimate punishment in Thailand is still the death penalty. Maybe the PM wants to get as tough as China regarding corruption?

It's probably deemed 'political', so there'll be a cleansing bill along to sort it out. Window dressing. These are the culprits but it's not their fault. It's probably Abhisit come to think of it - LOL

[Scott]

Posts with messed up quotes have been deleted.

[EvilDrSomkid]

"she said .......... it could not be said if it was a losing or profitable scheme."

Her brother stated 9 months ago that the scheme would reap 300% profit. At the same time, it was pointed out that the Shinawatra's own millions of rai of rice farming land. (BP Business, 25/9/12).

I await the PM's declaration that neither she nor her family have profited from this scam.

This one I like. It is to the point!

It´s also shows that Thaksin isn´t that good businessman that everybody thinks.

Au contraire. He might be guilty of many crimes, but he is a good businessman. Make no mistake.

The way to make people believe a lie is to make it a huge one. It worked didn't it?

The clan has managed to amass an enormous fortune and real estate. Their ethics are questionable, but they do know what they are doing.

Thaksin is not stupid, neither is Yaopawa nor Pojaman nor any of the others.

I think the ridiculous slander against Cinderella of calling her a slutty moron is just a cheap, misogynistic shot.

They have managed to make billions between them and it is not stopping. Why do you think YL is promoting the Dawei Deep Sea port to the Japanese? Why do you think she and BB are having meetings with the Burmese all the time?

They have massive investments there.

Of course, they are not very interested having all their shady dealings being exposed. Could be a reason why Akeyuth got bumped off.

But that got bungled. Chalerm to the rescue with his premature "We didn't do it" before a a single prying question could asked.

This is how people become insanely rich in this part of the world. Westerners can moan and groan about it, but what can we do?

FA.

Edited June 20, 2013 by EvilDrSomkid

[PaullyW]

Thailand's Ruinous Rice Subsidy

"On Wednesday Thailand agreed to cut the price it pays for farmers' rice crops by 20%, in what may be the first step in unwinding a disastrous rice subsidy program. This retreat won't undo the fiscal damage already done by the two-year-old scheme, which saw the government buy local rice harvests for as much as 50% above market rates and then fail to engineer a similar price hike globally. But it does provide a good lesson in the dangers of meddling with markets.

Earlier this week the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra admitted that its rice scheme had lost $4.4 billion for the 2011-12 growing season, a huge sum for a program sold as cost-neutral."

-- taken from: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324577904578557050631839748.html

[ABCer]

Let us all be reasonable. I cannot quote 30 - 40 posts here, so excuse me if I sum them up not to every dot and comma.

Corruption!... Thailand is founded on it 2556 years back... and no amount of goodwill from anybody can change this! To paraphrase one post: where there is a big pile of public money => you will find corruption (in any country).

Gov't !... Any Gov't... never did and never will change this!

Yingluck... she is a PM... she is responcible ... BUT!.. this comes with the job... and coming from a wealthy family with ties makes it harder...

Can any one of us suggest a better alternative?... I can't see it really... so, keep complaining... or accept what is as it is... TIT... enjoy!

If it weren't Thai rice, it would've been Russian or Venesuela's oil or American arms or Banks or Egyptian cotton, etc.

The one thing I would like to see here is people stopping to abuse her personally... She is not too bad under the circumstances...

There is a huge drum full of shi*t... it stinks... and you complain about the Foam!... really funny.

I am not defending her... Just appealing to everybody's wisdom and civility...

Edited June 21, 2013 by ABCer

[rubl]

Let us all be reasonable. I cannot quote 30 - 40 posts here, so excuse me if I sum them up not to every dot and comma.

Corruption!... Thailand is founded on it 2556 years back... and no amount of goodwill from anybody can change this! To paraphrase one post: where there is a big pile of public money => you will find corruption (in any country).

Gov't !... Any Gov't... never did and never will change this!

Yingluck... she is a PM... she is responcible ... BUT!.. this comes with the job... and coming from a wealthy family with ties makes it harder...

Can any one of us suggest a better alternative?... I can't see it really... so, keep complaining... or accept what is as it is... TIT... enjoy!

If it weren't Thai rice, it would've been Russian or Venesuela's oil or American arms or Banks or Egyptian cotton, etc.

The one thing I would like to see here is people stopping to abuse her personally... She is not too bad under the circumstances...

There is a huge drum full of shi*t... it stinks... and you complain about the Foam!... really funny.

I am not defending her... Just appealing to everybody's wisdom and civility...

No offence, but there is a difference between 'abuse' and calling someone guilty of avoiding questions, mouthing platitudes and in general behaving as if all of this is just too much for a simple girl. Ms. Yingluck is the (real) Prime Minister, the buck stops there, IMHO

BTW 'complain about the foam'? Now that some may see as an insult

[SICHONSTEVE]

Let us all be reasonable. I cannot quote 30 - 40 posts here, so excuse me if I sum them up not to every dot and comma.

Corruption!... Thailand is founded on it 2556 years back... and no amount of goodwill from anybody can change this! To paraphrase one post: where there is a big pile of public money => you will find corruption (in any country).

Gov't !... Any Gov't... never did and never will change this!

Yingluck... she is a PM... she is responcible ... BUT!.. this comes with the job... and coming from a wealthy family with ties makes it harder...

Can any one of us suggest a better alternative?... I can't see it really... so, keep complaining... or accept what is as it is... TIT... enjoy!

If it weren't Thai rice, it would've been Russian or Venesuela's oil or American arms or Banks or Egyptian cotton, etc.

The one thing I would like to see here is people stopping to abuse her personally... She is not too bad under the circumstances...

There is a huge drum full of shi*t... it stinks... and you complain about the Foam!... really funny.

I am not defending her... Just appealing to everybody's wisdom and civility...

Corruption without doubt is worse under PT governments (particularly this one).

Agreed, that no governments can stop this as it is too rampant and accepted as normal - however, this government has exacerbated it by trying to steam-roller through legislation that reduces at best transparency and in many cases eliminates it!!

Yingluck's title is PM but that's all. We all know why she was installed as PM but she is not qualified, weak as they come, useless at the job (not surprising being that she had zilch political experience when she was parachuted into the job for her 'mission') has little respect in the world (my opinion) although outwardledy and diplomatically they have to show otherwise.

Coming from a wealthy family opens the whole thing up to conflicts of interest - and this family has been there many times before (the reason that Thaksin cannot come home being the most pertinent one).

Of course there is a better alternative, shouldn't have thought that I would have to name him though - but for your sake its Abhisit!!

Thailand doesn't have American arms, Russian oil or Egyptian cotton - it does have Thai rice though, whereby Thailand used to be the number exporter of the grain (number 3 now) thanks to this stupid scheme that benefits all the wrong people!!

She is TRULY AWFUL and that is an understatement and we should keep on pointing this out (not abusing her by the way) and she should step down and let someone who knows how to do the job take over.

You ARE defending her which is rather absurd considering that she is ruining Thailand's prosperity for future generations in an unbelievably short space of time.

I suggest you either read all of the posts again or put your brain into gear and if it is, then start using it!!!

[EvilDrSomkid]

No way is he a good business man!!! - successful, I accept, but just think how good Hitler was, he nearly conquered Europe (but for us Brits) but would you deem him good???

You (deliberately) misconstrue. I said good as in successful. I did not say good as in ethical.

And please, we have to bring Hitler into this?

The only thing these two have in common is megalomania.

[katastrophic]

I didn't even read the article.

I saw the headline 'PM: Corrupt officials in rice scheme will be severely punished' and felt sick to my stomach.

calling kettle pot the black

Rearrange the words to create a better headline!

OK, I'll try:

PM: In officials scheme, will corrupt rice be severely punished?

[gemini81]

Thaksin is a good business man, lol. That's like saying a card cheat is a good poker player.

The point I was trying to make!!

Convicted card cheat.

A sly fox avoids detection and won't end up convicted now would he?

He wasn't smooth, he just preyed on those with little knowledge. That's a low-life is all.

[gemini81]

Let us all be reasonable. I cannot quote 30 - 40 posts here, so excuse me if I sum them up not to every dot and comma.

Corruption!... Thailand is founded on it 2556 years back... and no amount of goodwill from anybody can change this! To paraphrase one post: where there is a big pile of public money => you will find corruption (in any country).

Gov't !... Any Gov't... never did and never will change this!

Yingluck... she is a PM... she is responcible ... BUT!.. this comes with the job... and coming from a wealthy family with ties makes it harder...

Can any one of us suggest a better alternative?... I can't see it really... so, keep complaining... or accept what is as it is... TIT... enjoy!

If it weren't Thai rice, it would've been Russian or Venesuela's oil or American arms or Banks or Egyptian cotton, etc.

The one thing I would like to see here is people stopping to abuse her personally... She is not too bad under the circumstances...

There is a huge drum full of shi*t... it stinks... and you complain about the Foam!... really funny.

I am not defending her... Just appealing to everybody's wisdom and civility...

Corruption without doubt is worse under PT governments (particularly this one).

Agreed, that no governments can stop this as it is too rampant and accepted as normal - however, this government has exacerbated it by trying to steam-roller through legislation that reduces at best transparency and in many cases eliminates it!!

Yingluck's title is PM but that's all. We all know why she was installed as PM but she is not qualified, weak as they come, useless at the job (not surprising being that she had zilch political experience when she was parachuted into the job for her 'mission') has little respect in the world (my opinion) although outwardledy and diplomatically they have to show otherwise.

Coming from a wealthy family opens the whole thing up to conflicts of interest - and this family has been there many times before (the reason that Thaksin cannot come home being the most pertinent one).

Of course there is a better alternative, shouldn't have thought that I would have to name him though - but for your sake its Abhisit!!

Thailand doesn't have American arms, Russian oil or Egyptian cotton - it does have Thai rice though, whereby Thailand used to be the number exporter of the grain (number 3 now) thanks to this stupid scheme that benefits all the wrong people!!

She is TRULY AWFUL and that is an understatement and we should keep on pointing this out (not abusing her by the way) and she should step down and let someone who knows how to do the job take over.

You ARE defending her which is rather absurd considering that she is ruining Thailand's prosperity for future generations in an unbelievably short space of time.

I suggest you either read all of the posts again or put your brain into gear and if it is, then start using it!!!

The girls...that's the main export with real demand, let's be honest. You can get your rice anywhere; or even live without it.

About management..this woman mismanaged everything along with her administration from day one (starting with the floods). Her philosophy was wrong from day one: never saw herself as a public servant; 'I'll take my background in management (family given position) and apply it to my job as a PM'...that foretold what an 'epic fail' she would come to be.

[gabruce]

It's nice that PM Yingluck threatens corrupt officials, but regarding the 'rice scheme' there's still a lot we don't know.

We only (seem to) 'know' that over the 2011/2012 period THB 352 billion has been spent and 136 billion lost. It is difficult to say if this is because of corruption, mismanagement, legal loopholes from which some profit, etc., etc. Insufficient data provided by the government which also seems to not know. Personally I'd prefer the government to 1. review the process, 2. improve or correct the process, 3. do an audit on the THB 352 billion, 4. punish those who acted illegally (if any found that is :-)).

Wasn't the reported loss of 136 billion the difference between the sale price and the purchase price for the rice that has been sold. There is still an undetermined loss for the unsold rice - they may still sell at a profit:) - and of course storage, handling, etc fees.

[pb1936]

Maybe I am missing something here........As I understand it the " rice pledging " scheme was concocted as a subsidy ( vote buying ) to the farmers. It was known from the start that the government would buy from the farmers at above market price. On the sale of the rice the government would take a loss...... there was always going to be a loss. Since the govt. would have been aware of the amount of loss per ton of rice and would also have known the approximate quantity of the harvest, it follows that they would have known the approx. cost of the subsidy per annum.

Why therefore is there all the fuss about the govt. making a loss and how come there is so much rice in store and not sold....... before this scheme started one presumes that the harvested rice was sold to the buying markets without being stored until it became unsellable ?

[Robby nz]

I was led to understand that Thaksin believed that withholding Thai rice from the market would create a word wide shortage which would force the price up, then the Thai rice could be released on to the market and obtain a higher price.

The whole scheme would then return a profit.

Could it be that they have stumbled on a way to get rid of the rice in their sale to the Philippines?

If they target all the countries that are more corrupt than Thailand then the quality and price wont matter as long as the officials in the receiving country get a big share.

If the share is big enough it will guarantee return orders.

However they may not need to worry about getting rid of the rice.

The MRs tells me that it is on one of the Thai news networks that there is a big fire at one of the rice warehouses, burnt for 8hrs she says.

Entirely predictable, spontaneous combustion from huge piles of sacks of damp rice.

Same effect as you get from a pile of grass clippings that generates heat.

[Thai at Heart]

I was led to understand that Thaksin believed that withholding Thai rice from the market would create a word wide shortage which would force the price up, then the Thai rice could be released on to the market and obtain a higher price.

The whole scheme would then return a profit.

Could it be that they have stumbled on a way to get rid of the rice in their sale to the Philippines?

If they target all the countries that are more corrupt than Thailand then the quality and price wont matter as long as the officials in the receiving country get a big share.

If the share is big enough it will guarantee return orders.

However they may not need to worry about getting rid of the rice.

The MRs tells me that it is on one of the Thai news networks that there is a big fire at one of the rice warehouses, burnt for 8hrs she says.

Entirely predictable, spontaneous combustion from huge piles of sacks of damp rice.

Same effect as you get from a pile of grass clippings that generates heat.

You can't do that if you announce the prices to the public beforehand.

The Philippines have newspapers too....

[Scott]

Posts and replies with references to Hitler have been removed.

[slapout]

I was led to understand that Thaksin believed that withholding Thai rice from the market would create a word wide shortage which would force the price up, then the Thai rice could be released on to the market and obtain a higher price.

The whole scheme would then return a profit.

Could it be that they have stumbled on a way to get rid of the rice in their sale to the Philippines?

If they target all the countries that are more corrupt than Thailand then the quality and price wont matter as long as the officials in the receiving country get a big share.

If the share is big enough it will guarantee return orders.

However they may not need to worry about getting rid of the rice.

The MRs tells me that it is on one of the Thai news networks that there is a big fire at one of the rice warehouses, burnt for 8hrs she says.

Entirely predictable, spontaneous combustion from huge piles of sacks of damp rice.

Same effect as you get from a pile of grass clippings that generates heat.

Thats the second such fire in the past couple of weeks. Might be more as the day of swooping in to count and minitor stock and inventory arrives closer. I have seen one gtain fire, not so much fire as smoldering, acidic smoke, flames with grain just may indicate a tad of human help in the intensity of the fire.

[rubl]

It's nice that PM Yingluck threatens corrupt officials, but regarding the 'rice scheme' there's still a lot we don't know.

We only (seem to) 'know' that over the 2011/2012 period THB 352 billion has been spent and 136 billion lost. It is difficult to say if this is because of corruption, mismanagement, legal loopholes from which some profit, etc., etc. Insufficient data provided by the government which also seems to not know. Personally I'd prefer the government to 1. review the process, 2. improve or correct the process, 3. do an audit on the THB 352 billion, 4. punish those who acted illegally (if any found that is :-)).

Wasn't the reported loss of 136 billion the difference between the sale price and the purchase price for the rice that has been sold. There is still an undetermined loss for the unsold rice - they may still sell at a profit:) - and of course storage, handling, etc fees.

The difference between sale price (59 biilion) and purchase price (352 billion) is 297 billion, only counting 2011/2012 period. Unfortunately it would seem we have less than 297 billion on 2011/2012 stock remaining.

Four days ago we had Minister to the Prime Minister’s Office Varathep Rattanakorn say "the government spent Bt352 billion to buy 21.7 million tonnes of rice in the 2011/2012 crop while Bt156 billion worth of rice remains in the stockpiles and the sold volume was Bt59 billion, leaving net losses of Bt136.908 billion"

[nottocus]

Looks pretty inactive to me

[Noistar]

Why isn't the rice sold at the normal price as if the subsidy wasn't there?

Am I missing something?

[jaidam]

Why isn't the rice sold at the normal price as if the subsidy wasn't there?

Am I missing something?

Thailand will risk international sanctions for dumping a product on the world market. They are supposed to sell it at/above the price the govt paid for it.

[Noistar]

Why isn't the rice sold at the normal price as if the subsidy wasn't there?

Am I missing something?

Thailand will risk international sanctions for dumping a product on the world market. They are supposed to sell it at/above the price the govt paid for it.

Thanks.

I just thought that the whole idea was to internally increase the benefits to the farmers while making it Business as Usual to the buyers.

Economics was never my strong suit!

[whybother]

Why isn't the rice sold at the normal price as if the subsidy wasn't there?

Am I missing something?

Thailand will risk international sanctions for dumping a product on the world market. They are supposed to sell it at/above the price the govt paid for it.

http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/agrm8_e.htm

If a company exports a product at a price lower than the price it normally charges on its own home market, it is said to be “dumping” the product.

There are many different ways of calculating whether a particular product is being dumped heavily or only lightly. The agreement narrows down the range of possible options. It provides three methods to calculate a product’s “normal value”. The main one is based on the price in the exporter’s domestic market. When this cannot be used, two alternatives are available — the price charged by the exporter in another country, or a calculation based on the combination of the exporter’s production costs, other expenses and normal profit margins. And the agreement also specifies how a fair comparison can be made between the export price and what would be a normal price.

Edited June 23, 2013 by whybother

[jaidam]

Why isn't the rice sold at the normal price as if the subsidy wasn't there?

Am I missing something?

Thailand will risk international sanctions for dumping a product on the world market. They are supposed to sell it at/above the price the govt paid for it.

Thanks.

I just thought that the whole idea was to internally increase the benefits to the farmers while making it Business as Usual to the buyers.

Economics was never my strong suit!

The tragedy here is the totally flawed "thinking" that led to the current rice scheme.

In a case of a true monopoly/oligopoly, it is true that restricting the supply of a product will increase the price(assuming the demand remains constant). OPEC and oil being one of the great examples.

Rice on the other hand is produced pretty much world-wide, and in many different forms. In Spain for example, short grain arborio rice is the prefered grain, while in India/Pakistan, basmati rice is more desirable. The idea that one country, Thailand, acting alone, can with-hold its Thai/fragrant rice supply and cause a global surge in rice prices is a nonsense. Other countries can and will do their damndest to make up the shortfall which we have seen with Cambodia and Vietnam increasing production and export.

Further compounding the stupidity is the fact that rice is perishable(unlike crude oil) and can't be stored at a low cost, indefinitely until the world rice price increases and allowing an exit strategy.

This rice scheme is doing to Thailand the same as silver did to Bunker Hunt.