Thai Army Officer Insists To Court Japanese Reporter Killed By 'Blackshirts'

[smedly]

what is there to argue about here - everybody with half a brain knows the reds were armed to the teeth and were responsible for deaths, if a journalist was taking pictures that were forbidden (doing his job) it wouldn't surprise me that the reds shot him along with several others in an effort to hide the truth

move on please - this egotistical discussion is getting boring

Nick you've voiced your opinion - nothing much more to add, is there ?

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed.

[nicknostitz]

what is there to argue about here - everybody with half a brain knows the reds were armed to the teeth and were responsible for deaths, if a journalist was taking pictures that were forbidden (doing his job) it wouldn't surprise me that the reds shot him along with several others in an effort to hide the truth

move on please - this egotistical discussion is getting boring

Nick you've voiced your opinion - nothing much more to add, is there ?

Actually, no, i haven't voiced an opinion, but a few questions to clarify details of a poster's claim.

I have not received a satisfactory answer yet. I don't care what "everybody" believes to know, i look for my own answers.

If my posts bore you, or unsettle you in some way, then please, there is no need for you to read them - just put me on ignore.

[smedly]

what is there to argue about here - everybody with half a brain knows the reds were armed to the teeth and were responsible for deaths, if a journalist was taking pictures that were forbidden (doing his job) it wouldn't surprise me that the reds shot him along with several others in an effort to hide the truth

move on please - this egotistical discussion is getting boring

Nick you've voiced your opinion - nothing much more to add, is there ?

Actually, no, i haven't voiced an opinion, but a few questions to clarify details of a poster's claim.

I have not received a satisfactory answer yet. I don't care what "everybody" believes to know, i look for my own answers.

If my posts bore you, or unsettle you in some way, then please, there is no need for you to read them - just put me on ignore.

every time you post you are voicing an opinion or view

in fact kindly refrain from including the word "US" in your replies as you certainly don't speak for me or anyone else for that matter on here - your views opinions are your own - very much your own

[rixalex]

what is there to argue about here - everybody with half a brain knows the reds were armed to the teeth and were responsible for deaths, if a journalist was taking pictures that were forbidden (doing his job) it wouldn't surprise me that the reds shot him along with several others in an effort to hide the truth

move on please - this egotistical discussion is getting boring

Nick you've voiced your opinion - nothing much more to add, is there ?

Actually, no, i haven't voiced an opinion, but a few questions to clarify details of a poster's claim.

I have not received a satisfactory answer yet. I don't care what "everybody" believes to know, i look for my own answers.

If my posts bore you, or unsettle you in some way, then please, there is no need for you to read them - just put me on ignore.

From the way in which the poster describes his experience, it is obvious that the details you are requesting, not that unreasonably, he will be unable to give. Which means we either dismiss his experience as fabrication, or accept it at face value.

Personally, i think considering that this isn't a court of law, nor material for a book, or research for a study, just people chatting on a public forum with nothing much riding on it, we can probably afford to take the risk of giving people the benefit of the doubt, and assume that what they say, and what experiences they may relay, are by and large true, perhaps with a bit of give and take for a degree of selective interpretation and bias.

Because, crazy as it may sound, this being the internet and all, I don't think in the main, that there are many people here, who simply concoct totally untrue stories. Apply spin? Expose lack of impartiality? Fail to be objective? Sure, i think you are guilty of all those things, along with a lot of other people, including i'm sure some will say, me. But bare-faced out and out lies about experiences? No, i don't think you have ever been guilty of that, and i don't think, with the exception of a few idiots, anyone else is.

I may be totally wrong of course...

[15Peter20]

what is there to argue about here - everybody with half a brain knows the reds were armed to the teeth and were responsible for deaths, if a journalist was taking pictures that were forbidden (doing his job) it wouldn't surprise me that the reds shot him along with several others in an effort to hide the truth

move on please - this egotistical discussion is getting boring

Nick you've voiced your opinion - nothing much more to add, is there ?

Actually, no, i haven't voiced an opinion, but a few questions to clarify details of a poster's claim.

I have not received a satisfactory answer yet. I don't care what "everybody" believes to know, i look for my own answers.

If my posts bore you, or unsettle you in some way, then please, there is no need for you to read them - just put me on ignore.

every time you post you are voicing an opinion or view

in fact kindly refrain from including the word "US" in your replies as you certainly don't speak for me or anyone else for that matter on here - your views opinions are your own - very much your own

I don't know why you are getting on his back. He's already agreed with your own mantra countless times - that some red shirts and their sympathizers were armed - but there is still some reason you continue to attack him and seek his silence on this forum. All he's doing is asking for detail from someone who claims to be a witness. Standard procedure for any agency or individual in an investigative role. And he hasn't been rude about it either.

[Nickymaster]

We need a downvote button. Your occasional upvote from a sympathiser would possibly be offset by a large number of posters calling BS.

Up to you.

Now can you answer my question of when and where you had that encounter with the AK47 brandishing Red Shirts?

Hey, I wrote the previous reply during my sequential reading of the posts. LTFO and stop being a jerk. You read and reply to posts in random order do you? That would make about as much sense as your posts actually.

1: I could figure out the date, but I am not going to bother, it was long enough ago that I don't give a FF

2: I don't drive in BKK ever, I leave it to taxi drivers and friends foolish enough to own & drive cars in Bangkok. The location was somewhere around victory monument IIRC (I wasn't really watching coz I wasn't steering) and it was, IIRC, before they commandeered downtown. But as I said, I cannot be bothered chasing passport stamps in an expired passport I no longer have. And certainly not to satisfy a an aggressive little pillock such as yourself <-- ad hominom

3: Feel free to call me a liar, my 3 friends also witnessed this, and one of them is married to a woman who was physically on the barricades for the Reds. Apparently she called my buddy a liar too when the event was related at home. The Reds are good at maintaining the lie, if nothing else. We are peacful and unarmed - utter F*ing bullshit and enough of us know this to call you on it.

Call it an urban myth, call it the f*ing Macarena for all I care. I am just posting the facts as they were on the ground that day.

Sorry, but before the Red Shirts occupied Rajaprasong (eg. downtown) they had no barricades, especially not at Victory Monument as this was far from their protest site. Their camp stretched from Khok Wua intersection (with some at Sanam Luang), over Pan Fa (where the main stage was located), up to Royal Plaza (where many camped). The protest area was open and easily accessible - i drove in there every single day, often several times.

The barricades at Rajaprasong were only errected after the April 10 incident. The first barricade was erected at the night of April 10 to April 11, after the carnage at Khok Wua and Dinso, where Red Shirts erected a makeshift barricade somewhere around Saphan Khao, fearing an attack by Yellow Shirts and/or soldiers. Soon after the Red Shirts left their Pan Fa protest site and concentrated at Rajaprasong.

Oh, and by the way, if you would read my posts, you may find that i have always maintained that there were armed militants under the Red Shirts, as i have ran into a group of them during the May fighting, and have publicly said so on many occasions. Therefore there is no need to "call me on it". I just very much doubt your claim of this particular incident, as these armed militants were not operating that openly, only brandished their weapons in the thick of it, and preferred not to be seen, naturally. That is why there are so few photos and videos of them existing, even though each of the hundreds of photographers and cameramen that descended on Bangkok would have loved to get some image of them.

And again, the timing and location you have given us here makes this claim even more unbelievable.

Oh, and by the way, if you would read my posts, you may find that i have always maintained that there were armed militants under the Red Shirts, as i have ran into a group of them during the May fighting, and have publicly said so on many occasions.

Dear Nicknostitz,

You seem to have a lot of info on the Red Shirt movement and their occupation of downtown Bangkok. Do you mind sharing some pictures of the so called "Men In Black" (armed militants) with us? You spend a lot of time at the protest sites so surely you must have some.

Thanks!

Edited June 25, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Nickymaster]

The final footage from Reuters reporter Hiroyuki Muramoto:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5dd_1271094999

Well what a good job the Grenade didn't travel another 5-10 meters or Hiro would have been killed by that. How would the red leadership have squirmed their way out of that.

Thanks for posting rubi.

+1

When I see those terrible videos I always ask myself: "Where were the Police?" Yes I know, they vanished on Thaksin's orders.

A truly sick situation.

[rixalex]

All he's doing is asking for detail from someone who claims to be a witness. Standard procedure for any agency or individual in an investigative role. And he hasn't been rude about it either.

Implying that Nick uses what people say here potentially as part of his investigations, does not speak very kindly to his work, unless he is actually going out and meeting with members.

I assume he spends his time here, like everyone else, primarily just to pass a bit of time.

Hence my suggestion to him, to, broadly speaking, take people at face value and not expect watertight evidence to be produced with exhibits.

[nicknostitz]

Oh, and by the way, if you would read my posts, you may find that i have always maintained that there were armed militants under the Red Shirts, as i have ran into a group of them during the May fighting, and have publicly said so on many occasions.

Dear Nicknostitz,

You seem to have a lot of info on the Red Shirt movement and their occupation of downtown Bangkok. Do you mind sharing some pictures of the so called "Men In Black" (armed militants) with us? You spend a lot of time at the protest sites so surely you must have some.

Thanks!

I can only say what i have said on several occasions - no, i haven't any images of armed militants ("blackshirts" - but i do not like this term, as it has led to much confusion, and as a result many guards wearing a black uniform were shot in the mistaken believe that they were armed militants). I have ran into them exactly once, and they asked me not to take any images. Being late at night, right at the frontline, and being the only journo, i thought it was neither the time nor the place to stress a discussion on the merits of freedom of the media.

Not too many journalists actually managed to see them, and even less images or videos of them are available, exactly because of aforementioned reasons. They did not really want to be filmed or photographed. Which is quite natural. And before you ask, yes, i have similar experiences with soldiers.

[nicknostitz]

All he's doing is asking for detail from someone who claims to be a witness. Standard procedure for any agency or individual in an investigative role. And he hasn't been rude about it either.

Implying that Nick uses what people say here potentially as part of his investigations, does not speak very kindly to his work, unless he is actually going out and meeting with members.

I assume he spends his time here, like everyone else, primarily just to pass a bit of time.

Hence my suggestion to him, to, broadly speaking, take people at face value and not expect watertight evidence to be produced with exhibits.

Yes, i pass my time here (and try to balance things out). But if someone makes an astonishing claim that could be true - curiosity takes over. I could not possibly use anything people say here. Any information i get has to be confirmed and corroborated, and can't come from someone i don't even know and have never met.

But i have many times offered when posters argued with me that i was wrong, and that they had differing information, that i would be willing to meet them, listen to their story, and try to verify that.

So far the offer hasn't been taken by anyone. Which isn't a problem with me. But nobody can expect from me to believe things on simple hearsay.

[rubl]

Not that NN really needs help, but indeed he wrote about his encounter with armed militants:

2012-05-17
Several of us, including me, met armed Red Shirt militants during the fighting, and non of us were killed by them, even though in cover of darkness it would have been easy for them to do so. I, for example, was only asked by them not to photograph them (quite politely, actually), and i won't argue with this point with heavily armed people. I didn't either when heavily armed soldiers asked me the same (not very polite) after their unit killed a protester in front of me. Sorry, but i fear that i may lack hero qualities - in those situations my life is more dear to me than my rights as a journalist.
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/541283-red-shirts-to-mark-2nd-anniversary-of-protests/page__st__300#entry5308387

The only issue I have with this is describing 'armed red shirt militants' as 'quite polite' and soldiers as 'not very polite'. This shows (IMHO) a prejudice against the army and a bias towards 'armed terorists'.

Anyway, those 'friendly people' also showed up on the 10th and directly or indirectly caused a lot of harm including the death of the Japanese reporter Mr. Hiro

[nicknostitz]

The final footage from Reuters reporter Hiroyuki Muramoto:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5dd_1271094999

Well what a good job the Grenade didn't travel another 5-10 meters or Hiro would have been killed by that. How would the red leadership have squirmed their way out of that.

Thanks for posting rubi.

+1

When I see those terrible videos I always ask myself: "Where were the Police?" Yes I know, they vanished on Thaksin's orders.

A truly sick situation.

That is not entirely true.

It is an urban myth that the police did nothing during the 2010 events. After the emergency decree was declared on April 7, the main responsibility lied with the army (which is part of the regulations of the decree). While it is true that the police was to some decree reluctant, police was nevertheless involved in many clashes, such as on April 28 at the National Memorial a combined police/military force clashed with Red Shirt protesters, leading to the death of a soldier in a friendly fire incident. During the Silom bombings police tried to separate Red Shirts and Yellow shirts clashing, while the military did nothing but inviting Yellow Shirt protesters through their lines.

The last shooting incident in Bangkok was on May 20th in the afternoon at Samliem Dindaeng, and that was with police and an unknown force. I have followed the police during this incident.

[nicknostitz]

Not that NN really needs help, but indeed he wrote about his encounter with armed militants:

2012-05-17

Several of us, including me, met armed Red Shirt militants during the fighting, and non of us were killed by them, even though in cover of darkness it would have been easy for them to do so. I, for example, was only asked by them not to photograph them (quite politely, actually), and i won't argue with this point with heavily armed people. I didn't either when heavily armed soldiers asked me the same (not very polite) after their unit killed a protester in front of me. Sorry, but i fear that i may lack hero qualities - in those situations my life is more dear to me than my rights as a journalist.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/541283-red-shirts-to-mark-2nd-anniversary-of-protests/page__st__300#entry5308387

The only issue I have with this is describing 'armed red shirt militants' as 'quite polite' and soldiers as 'not very polite'. This shows (IMHO) a prejudice against the army and a bias towards 'armed terorists'.

Anyway, those 'friendly people' also showed up on the 10th and directly or indirectly caused a lot of harm including the death of the Japanese reporter Mr. Hiro

I am sorry, but they were indeed quite polite. This is nothing but the truth.

And it is true as well that during the incident described the soldiers were not exactly polite, and neither were they during several other incidents in which they tried to hinder me from taking photos. That doesn't mean that all soldiers all the time were unfriendly - i have also had many good conversations with soldiers, i have also close friends in the military here.

[rubl]

Thanks for the broader picture, but on April 10th, 2010, the subject of this topic, no police in sight AFAIK.

[nicknostitz]

Thanks for the broader picture, but on April 10th, 2010, the subject of this topic, no police in sight AFAIK.

I guess you will have to ask officials of the former government why they have only ordered soldiers to take part in the dispersal attempt on April 10. Before and after the incident i have seen police in many incidents doing their duty.

[Nickymaster]

The final footage from Reuters reporter Hiroyuki Muramoto:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5dd_1271094999

Well what a good job the Grenade didn't travel another 5-10 meters or Hiro would have been killed by that. How would the red leadership have squirmed their way out of that.

Thanks for posting rubi.

+1

When I see those terrible videos I always ask myself: "Where were the Police?" Yes I know, they vanished on Thaksin's orders.

A truly sick situation.

That is not entirely true.

It is an urban myth that the police did nothing during the 2010 events. After the emergency decree was declared on April 7, the main responsibility lied with the army (which is part of the regulations of the decree). While it is true that the police was to some decree reluctant, police was nevertheless involved in many clashes, such as on April 28 at the National Memorial a combined police/military force clashed with Red Shirt protesters, leading to the death of a soldier in a friendly fire incident. During the Silom bombings police tried to separate Red Shirts and Yellow shirts clashing, while the military did nothing but inviting Yellow Shirt protesters through their lines.

The last shooting incident in Bangkok was on May 20th in the afternoon at Samliem Dindaeng, and that was with police and an unknown force. I have followed the police during this incident.

Total anarchy must be blamed on the police...IMO. The army had to step in because police didn't do their job. It's simple as that..IMO

As asked in an earlier post, please share some pictures of the MIB.

Thanks!

[Nickymaster]

Thanks for the broader picture, but on April 10th, 2010, the subject of this topic, no police in sight AFAIK.

I guess you will have to ask officials of the former government why they have only ordered soldiers to take part in the dispersal attempt on April 10. Before and after the incident i have seen police in many incidents doing their duty.

How can you say the police did their duty if there was total anarchy? I live in the area, I know. Where I come from the Police is in charge of law and order.

Of course the big question remains; What was their duty??

Knowing Thailand, how can anyone dare to say that the police does their job!? With a somewhat decent police force, Thailand would be a MUCH BETTER country to live in.

[rixalex]

So far the offer hasn't been taken by anyone. Which isn't a problem with me. But nobody can expect from me to believe things on simple hearsay.

Believe to the point of standing before a judge with your hand on the bible and declaring it as fact? Of course not. But believe for the purposes of an informal discussion on an anonymous forum? I think you should consider doing that, because, whilst you yourself may on occasion provide photographic evidence to back up a story, a lot of your accounts require in your reader a leap of faith in believing that things happened exactly as you say they did.

[rubl]

I've 'heard' many stories about police barricades which were completely transparent for red-shirts and their friendly militants.

BTW to answer questions with either non relevant answers or with new questions is not really helpful.

Anyway the simple fact remains that whatever the reason the police seems not to have been present during the 'fun' on April 10th, 2010. Some 'friendly' terrorists were present though. Them helping red-shirts doesn't seem to upset all here.'urban myth' has it that Mr. Hiro was shot by soldiers retreating after a devastating lobby of grenades by 'friendlies'. Another 'urban myth' has him shot by 'unknowns'. Till now no proof of either. IMHO.

[nicknostitz]

Total anarchy must be blamed on the police...IMO. The army had to step in because police didn't do their job. It's simple as that..IMO

As asked in an earlier post, please share some pictures of the MIB.

Thanks!

Are you able to read? I have said that i haven't any pictures of the "MIB". How many more times shall i repeat the same?

As to police, yes, it seems that urban myths are not easily countered with facts.

[longway]

The final footage from Reuters reporter Hiroyuki Muramoto:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5dd_1271094999

Well what a good job the Grenade didn't travel another 5-10 meters or Hiro would have been killed by that. How would the red leadership have squirmed their way out of that.

Thanks for posting rubi.

+1

When I see those terrible videos I always ask myself: "Where were the Police?" Yes I know, they vanished on Thaksin's orders.

A truly sick situation.

That is not entirely true.

It is an urban myth that the police did nothing during the 2010 events. After the emergency decree was declared on April 7, the main responsibility lied with the army (which is part of the regulations of the decree). While it is true that the police was to some decree reluctant, police was nevertheless involved in many clashes, such as on April 28 at the National Memorial a combined police/military force clashed with Red Shirt protesters, leading to the death of a soldier in a friendly fire incident. During the Silom bombings police tried to separate Red Shirts and Yellow shirts clashing, while the military did nothing but inviting Yellow Shirt protesters through their lines.

The last shooting incident in Bangkok was on May 20th in the afternoon at Samliem Dindaeng, and that was with police and an unknown force. I have followed the police during this incident.

I walked up with the red shirts on the day that they set up barricades at the Silom intersection. I was with them all the way from Rajadamri BTS to the intersection. What I saw was the police, in a very organised way, letting the reds take over that road. When they got to the intersection one of the police officers in charge got onto the red shirt truck and made a speech, with alot of loud cheering taking place as he spoke. He very clearly said ' Dtamruat bpen brachacon duay' , when speaking to the red shirts, pretty much confirming the police are also red shirts. It was quite astonishing in my view to see and hear that.

When the last of the police vans left from Lumpini park you could see several red shirts slapping the departing police on the back as they got into their vans. As the police departed, the army came in to take their place to prevent the protestetors entering Silom road, it was all quite carefully planned from my perspective.

Do you agree with my opinion?

From what i saw the police had very clearly been bought.

[nicknostitz]

So far the offer hasn't been taken by anyone. Which isn't a problem with me. But nobody can expect from me to believe things on simple hearsay.

Believe to the point of standing before a judge with your hand on the bible and declaring it as fact? Of course not. But believe for the purposes of an informal discussion on an anonymous forum? I think you should consider doing that, because, whilst you yourself may on occasion provide photographic evidence to back up a story, a lot of your accounts require in your reader a leap of faith in believing that things happened exactly as you say they did.

Well, in regards to some of the incidents (which were disbelieved here on the forum), i actually did stand before a judge and swore an oath to be truthful. And in both of these occasions the judgement came out exactly as i described (and not just based on my testimony, but because of others' testimonies, forensic evidence, etc)

Also - as you can see, i do post under my real name, and put my reputation on the line. If i would lie here about anything it would be rather more problematic than being just an anonymous poster.

Anyhow, i guess soon posts will be deleted again because this is turning yet again into a thread with me as the topic...

[nicknostitz]

I walked up with the red shirts on the day that they set up barricades at the Silom intersection. I was with them all the way from Rajadamri BTS to the intersection. What I saw was the police, in a very organised way, letting the reds take over that road. When they got to the intersection one of the police officers in charge got onto the red shirt truck and made a speech, with alot of loud cheering taking place as he spoke. He very clearly said ' Dtamruat bpen brachacon duay' , when speaking to the red shirts, pretty much confirming the police are also red shirts. It was quite astonishing in my view to see and hear that.

When the last of the police vans left from Lumpini park you could see several red shirts slapping the departing police on the back as they got into their vans. As the police departed, the army came in to take their place to prevent the protestetors entering Silom road, it was all quite carefully planned from my perspective.

Do you agree with my opinion?

From what i saw the police had very clearly been bought.

Actually, that day it was a combined police/military force that was pushed off Rajadamri by the Red Shirts (i was there as well, and took photos - if you don't believe me, i could post here one or two of them). Also soldiers, who finally departed in buses as well, were clapped on by the Red Shirts. The combined force there quite clearly had the orders by the government not to engage in violence.

As to the what officers of police and military say on loudspeakers, it has more to do with their crowd control strategies than anything else. The soldiers many times made the same statement through their psych-warfare units over their loudspeakers ("dtahan pen prachachon duay", and whatever else).

It is true that the police has largely sympathies to the Red Shirts, and was often reluctant in engaging the Red Shirts (as was the military back in 2008 when ordered to engage the Yellow Shirts) - but it is untrue that the police was doing not their duty, or not to be seen at all.

Edited June 25, 2013 by nicknostitz

[metisdead]

Thai Army Officer Insists To Court Japanese Reporter Killed By 'Blackshirts', that's a link back to the opening post of this topic, maybe some need to go back and re-read so that we can get back on topic .

[acer98]

Yes, the red shirts were armed. We made a few wrong turns one day in bangkok and ended up at a red shirt blockade early in the proceedings. They came screaming and yelling at us that they were in control and motioning that we should GTF out of there. (a) I am not colour blind, I can discern the colour red. ( I know an AK47 when I see one, and that is what I saw being brandished around.

Bottom line is that the red shirt apologists are just as nefarious and dishonest as their political masters, and one tires or reading their BS. The red shirts were clearly armed early in the protest, based on my personal observation. Perhaps they shouldered arms afterwards and let the black shirts do the dirty work, I didn't hang around BKK much longer and hightailed it out of town, but it is a direct lie that the red shirts were unarmed.

I have often wished that I had whipped my camera out and displayed the courage of an idiot and snapped a Kodak moment. But in retrospect, I think my lack of quick thinking bravado was the right level of inaction.

I walked up with the red shirts on the day that they set up barricades at the Silom intersection. I was with them all the way from Rajadamri BTS to the intersection. What I saw was the police, in a very organised way, letting the reds take over that road. When they got to the intersection one of the police officers in charge got onto the red shirt truck and made a speech, with alot of loud cheering taking place as he spoke. He very clearly said ' Dtamruat bpen brachacon duay' , when speaking to the red shirts, pretty much confirming the police are also red shirts. It was quite astonishing in my view to see and hear that.

When the last of the police vans left from Lumpini park you could see several red shirts slapping the departing police on the back as they got into their vans. As the police departed, the army came in to take their place to prevent the protestetors entering Silom road, it was all quite carefully planned from my perspective.

From what i saw the police had very clearly been bought.

Thank you both for relating your personal experiences surrounding the events that led to the Japanese reporter's death.

It's always beneficial to hear of how the events impacted on individuals directly as well as hearing of those real world experiences increases the knowledge base of all of those who are interested in situation.

[MAJIC]

Yes and the men in black were also army officers so it is still the army. However all evidence point directly to the army units that were under kill to shoot orders fro, Suthep. It will be as with the Ramkhamhaeng bombing. When they catch someone they still bullshit their way out of it.

"Yes and the men in black were also army officers so it is still the army"

So pray tell us why would Army Officers be disguised in Black,and shooting at the Army from within the midst of the Red Shirts,your post makes no sense?

Edited June 25, 2013 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

I walked up with the red shirts on the day that they set up barricades at the Silom intersection. I was with them all the way from Rajadamri BTS to the intersection. What I saw was the police, in a very organised way, letting the reds take over that road. When they got to the intersection one of the police officers in charge got onto the red shirt truck and made a speech, with alot of loud cheering taking place as he spoke. He very clearly said ' Dtamruat bpen brachacon duay' , when speaking to the red shirts, pretty much confirming the police are also red shirts. It was quite astonishing in my view to see and hear that.

When the last of the police vans left from Lumpini park you could see several red shirts slapping the departing police on the back as they got into their vans. As the police departed, the army came in to take their place to prevent the protestetors entering Silom road, it was all quite carefully planned from my perspective.

Do you agree with my opinion?

From what i saw the police had very clearly been bought.

Actually, that day it was a combined police/military force that was pushed off Rajadamri by the Red Shirts (i was there as well, and took photos - if you don't believe me, i could post here one or two of them). Also soldiers, who finally departed in buses as well, were clapped on by the Red Shirts. The combined force there quite clearly had the orders by the government not to engage in violence.

As to the what officers of police and military say on loudspeakers, it has more to do with their crowd control strategies than anything else. The soldiers many times made the same statement through their psych-warfare units over their loudspeakers ("dtahan pen prachachon duay", and whatever else).

It is true that the police has largely sympathies to the Red Shirts, and was often reluctant in engaging the Red Shirts (as was the military back in 2008 when ordered to engage the Yellow Shirts) - but it is untrue that the police was doing not their duty, or not to be seen at all.

Reluctant to engage the Red Shirts!I I don't recall them engaging at all,except to attend chatty food breaks and freindly buddy sessions with the Red Shirts.Which is why PM Abhisit had to call in the Army,to do the Police job for them !

[Nickymaster]

Not that NN really needs help, but indeed he wrote about his encounter with armed militants:

2012-05-17

Several of us, including me, met armed Red Shirt militants during the fighting, and non of us were killed by them, even though in cover of darkness it would have been easy for them to do so. I, for example, was only asked by them not to photograph them (quite politely, actually), and i won't argue with this point with heavily armed people. I didn't either when heavily armed soldiers asked me the same (not very polite) after their unit killed a protester in front of me. Sorry, but i fear that i may lack hero qualities - in those situations my life is more dear to me than my rights as a journalist.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/541283-red-shirts-to-mark-2nd-anniversary-of-protests/page__st__300#entry5308387

The only issue I have with this is describing 'armed red shirt militants' as 'quite polite' and soldiers as 'not very polite'. This shows (IMHO) a prejudice against the army and a bias towards 'armed terorists'.

Anyway, those 'friendly people' also showed up on the 10th and directly or indirectly caused a lot of harm including the death of the Japanese reporter Mr. Hiro

I am sorry, but they were indeed quite polite. This is nothing but the truth.

And it is true as well that during the incident described the soldiers were not exactly polite, and neither were they during several other incidents in which they tried to hinder me from taking photos. That doesn't mean that all soldiers all the time were unfriendly - i have also had many good conversations with soldiers, i have also close friends in the military here.

Have you ever been a witness at a court case ? Have you ever told a court that you have met armed terrorists, the guys that have murdered innocent civilians and security forces?

If not, I have to agree with rubl: This shows (IMHO) a prejudice against the army and a bias towards 'armed terorists'.

[smedly]

can you imagine the city of London being invaded by thousands of protestors blocking off main routes and brandishing weapons and grenades and threatening to burn down the city if their demands are not met (the demand is not important), it would not be the police that would be dealing with such an event it would be the army and they would receive the same instructions/orders the Thai army received in 2010 - people would die

This sort of civil disturbance would not be tolerated in any modern demacracy