Need oxygen equipment in CM

[jaideeguy]

This may qualify as a double post, as I posted on the Chiang Mai forum but please mods let it go as it's an urgent situation.

My elderly neighbor with emphysema has just come down with pneumonia and is now in the hospital trying to recover from that and the Dr says that he will most likely need oxygen at home after he is released from the hospital. We priced oxygen and it is relatively cheap, but all the delivery mechanics and valves are not cheap. Just wondering if there are any oxygen rental shops in LOS or BKK that would deal with us up here in CM. Or maybe someone out there would have a 2nd hand unit to sell. These people are on a tight budget and we need the cheapest option.

Thanks in advance...........

[chiang mai]

There's some pharma's opposite Suan Dok that stock all manner of unusual medical supplies, maybe a place to start/try?

[harrry]

Oxygen sounds not expensive but if you are talking about to thais it is. The cheapest way of obtaining long term oxygen is with an oxygen concentrator. They can be obtained for about 20000 baht and have a life of about 2 years before expensive service. The electricity to run them though is a constant expense probably about 100 watts 24 hrs a day. If you need further info please pm me.

[jrtmedic]

Be careful !

If your neighbour has emphysema and is oxygen dependent it is likely that an unrestricted oxygen supply could be hazardous to his well-being.

Be SURE the Doctor PRESCRIBES either a specific flow rate or an oxygen % for him.

As a guide a flow rate of 100% oxygen would normally be delivered via nasal cannula at a rate not exceeding 1-3L min or a concentration of oxygen not exceeding 28%. which would be delivered via a special (venturi ) mask.

An oxygen concentrator may be an (expensive) solution if your neighbours oxygen need is such that can be met by a low flow rate.

It is not until you have the Drs prescription that you can ensure that any home based oxygen supply system is fit for purpose.

Edited June 22, 2013 by jrtmedic

[jaideeguy]

Thanks JTR for the caution and will ask dr before his release. We're just doing the research now, after the dr says that he will need oxy at home after he is released. The hospital released him [too early] from his last bout and the first night home, he woke up gasping and his wife [who has her own health issues] had to drive him into the local govmt hospital.

We have checked the other suggestions with the main office of Pharma Choice and it seems that the cost of oxygen is quite cheap, but the delivery mechanics are costly.....................therefore my search for 2nd hand equipment or a medical equipment rental service.

[impulse]

I know this post will be met with proper cautions and warnings.

The GF in China needed oxygen for years because of complications from kidney problems (fluid building up in her lungs). There, she got her oxygen from the same guys that sell welding oxygen. That was on the advice of her doctors. They also supply some of the hospitals. We had 2 systems for her, one large bottle and a smaller, portable bottle that could be filled from the large bottle and held back as a reserve.

When she was coming to visit Thailand, I set out to find oxygen just in case she had breathing difficulties. In the welding section in Chinatown (BKK), they also had medical equipment, including the falling ball flowmeter and regulators and water-cup filters with the hoses that have 2 nostril protuberances. (Sorry I don't know the technical terms).

To get set up with a medium sized bottle of oxygen (purchased, not rented), regulator and nasal thingy was about 5000-5500 baht.

As dodgy as it sounds, the economic reality is that not everyone can afford the cost of the medical equipment through normal medical channels. You may want to check the companies that provide oxygen to the welding trade to see if they offer a viable alternative. You may find out the same companies also provide oxygen to the medical trade who then mark it up significantly before they sell it on to patients.

Of course, there is diligence to be done and questions to ask, but the doctors in China were the ones that sent us to them. Not sure what the exact situation is in Thailand.

Edit: BTW, that price I was given was the foreigner first price tossed out before negotiation, so their price may be much, much better.

Edited June 23, 2013 by impulse

[jaideeguy]

I know this post will be met with proper cautions and warnings.

The GF in China needed oxygen for years because of complications from kidney problems (fluid building up in her lungs). There, she got her oxygen from the same guys that sell welding oxygen. That was on the advice of her doctors. They also supply some of the hospitals. We had 2 systems for her, one large bottle and a smaller, portable bottle that could be filled from the large bottle and held back as a reserve.

When she was coming to visit Thailand, I set out to find oxygen just in case she had breathing difficulties. In the welding section in Chinatown (BKK), they also had medical equipment, including the falling ball flowmeter and regulators and water-cup filters with the hoses that have 2 nostril protuberances. (Sorry I don't know the technical terms).

To get set up with a medium sized bottle of oxygen (purchased, not rented), regulator and nasal thingy was about 5000-5500 baht.

As dodgy as it sounds, the economic reality is that not everyone can afford the cost of the medical equipment through normal medical channels. You may want to check the companies that provide oxygen to the welding trade to see if they offer a viable alternative. You may find out the same companies also provide oxygen to the medical trade who then mark it up significantly before they sell it on to patients.

Of course, there is diligence to be done and questions to ask, but the doctors in China were the ones that sent us to them. Not sure what the exact situation is in Thailand.

Edit: BTW, that price I was given was the foreigner first price tossed out before negotiation, so their price may be much, much better.

So, you're saying that there is no difference between medical grade oxygen and welding grade?? Will look into that option, thanks.........

[impulse]

I know this post will be met with proper cautions and warnings.

The GF in China needed oxygen for years because of complications from kidney problems (fluid building up in her lungs). There, she got her oxygen from the same guys that sell welding oxygen. That was on the advice of her doctors. They also supply some of the hospitals. We had 2 systems for her, one large bottle and a smaller, portable bottle that could be filled from the large bottle and held back as a reserve.

When she was coming to visit Thailand, I set out to find oxygen just in case she had breathing difficulties. In the welding section in Chinatown (BKK), they also had medical equipment, including the falling ball flowmeter and regulators and water-cup filters with the hoses that have 2 nostril protuberances. (Sorry I don't know the technical terms).

To get set up with a medium sized bottle of oxygen (purchased, not rented), regulator and nasal thingy was about 5000-5500 baht.

As dodgy as it sounds, the economic reality is that not everyone can afford the cost of the medical equipment through normal medical channels. You may want to check the companies that provide oxygen to the welding trade to see if they offer a viable alternative. You may find out the same companies also provide oxygen to the medical trade who then mark it up significantly before they sell it on to patients.

Of course, there is diligence to be done and questions to ask, but the doctors in China were the ones that sent us to them. Not sure what the exact situation is in Thailand.

Edit: BTW, that price I was given was the foreigner first price tossed out before negotiation, so their price may be much, much better.

So, you're saying that there is no difference between medical grade oxygen and welding grade?? Will look into that option, thanks.........

I'm saying that (in China), the folks that make medical oxygen are the same folks that make commercial oxygen. I found that out when I virtually lived in a Chinese hospital for weeks because of the GF being there for months at a time. The guys coming in with the oxygen bottles (to feed the entire hospital system) were hauling bottles identical to the ones they brought to our factory for welding. When the doctors referred us to an oxygen supplier, the same shop also provided oxygen to welders.

And in Chinatown in BKK, the welding oxygen shops also stocked the regulators, flowmeters and nasal hoses used for home medical oxygen use.

Neither my Thai, not my Chinese is adequate to determine whether the quality of the oxygen is different for the different purposes. But a native language conversation with someone in the business could sort that out. There may be some differences in quality or purity that make it unwise to use the commercial stuff. But if it's a choice between affordable commercial oxygen and no oxygen at all.....

Edited June 23, 2013 by impulse

[harrry]

THe person that sells all the oxygen in Chiangmai is located on the railway station road on the right hand side just about 100 metres from the superhighway. Look for a blue sign.

Here all the oxygen is the same.

I strongly suggest you pm me if you want info.

Edited June 24, 2013 by harrry

[jrtmedic]

This link de-mystifies the various "grades" of oxygen.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lpt/oxlabel.htm

Larry "Harris" Taylor, Ph.D. (The author of the paper) is a biochemist and Dive Safety Coordinator at the University of Michigan,USA

[jaideeguy]

A follow up on my neighbor's oxygen situation. He was released from the hospital today and they bought a

Yuyue min oxygen concentrator 7F-3

from Pharma Choice and it is up and running and supplying his needs for now, but we are wondering how best to deal with power outages. The power consumption of this unit is 350VA [watts?].

My first thought is to buy a 500 watt 12v dc to 220v ac inverter that I've seen at Armon electrical store under the old Carrefour and a car battery and charger for when the power goes down as it regularly does during the rainy season. Any thoughts on this idea??

thanks in advance.................

[impulse]

350 VA is similar to 350 watts without the power factor in the calculation. Watts = VA x PF. PF is usually fairly close to, and not more than 1.

That's similar to a desktop computer's power rating, so a computer style Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) may be the most cost effective way to deal with short power outages. They're off the shelf so lots of choices and very competitive on price.

For longer power outages, get a bigger UPS or the 12v battery with inverter and charger (but that's basically what a UPS is- designed and packaged nicely).

[harrry]

350 VA is similar to 350 watts without the power factor in the calculation. Watts = VA x PF. PF is usually fairly close to, and not more than 1.

That's similar to a desktop computer's power rating, so a computer style Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) may be the most cost effective way to deal with short power outages. They're off the shelf so lots of choices and very competitive on price.

For longer power outages, get a bigger UPS or the 12v battery with inverter and charger (but that's basically what a UPS is- designed and packaged nicely).

The problem is for the o2 converter the main part is a commpressor motor. Though it may run on 250va the initial start up current is much higher and the invedrter will not supply it.

for example see this on a much smaller motor.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1185711

[jrtmedic]

A simple solution would be to purchase a cylinder of oxygen together with the necessary regulator and flow-meter.

In the event of an electricity failure an easy swap from concentrator to cylinder solves any difficulty.

Edited June 28, 2013 by jrtmedic

[impulse]

350 VA is similar to 350 watts without the power factor in the calculation. Watts = VA x PF. PF is usually fairly close to, and not more than 1.

That's similar to a desktop computer's power rating, so a computer style Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) may be the most cost effective way to deal with short power outages. They're off the shelf so lots of choices and very competitive on price.

For longer power outages, get a bigger UPS or the 12v battery with inverter and charger (but that's basically what a UPS is- designed and packaged nicely).

The problem is for the o2 converter the main part is a commpressor motor. Though it may run on 250va the initial start up current is much higher and the invedrter will not supply it.

for example see this on a much smaller motor.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1185711

Caught me napping. I did not realize the core of an oxygen concentrator was a compressor. I'd still look at a UPS, but sized properly for the inrush current of the compressor motor.

Depending on what type of compressor it is, that could be one big and expensive UPS, or it could just be a little more than a typical computer style.

I think jrtmedic has a good plan...

[harrry]

Yes I thought I already had posted the details.

send me a pm as I asked and I will give you my phone number. I am an oxygen user and used to live in CM. I can give you a lot of info which will help your friend. I cannot just post everything here as it may not apply in his case.

Edited June 28, 2013 by harrry

[kriswillems]

350VA is not a bit. If you use a battery based system (UPS, or charged batteries with a convertor), it should be a huge system if you want it to work for several hours. I would buy a generator (with a benzine or diesel motor). It you buy a generator it's important to regularly check it condition (let it run for a few minutes one per week). A 650W unit cost about 3500B.

Edit: The solution of jrtmedic sounds better and safer (suppose you generator doesn't want to start ....).

Edited June 30, 2013 by kriswillems

[FBN]

Just a caution against using commercial oxygen; this is not filtered or controlled for purity and vapour content and may cause lung infections.

[harrry]

Just a caution against using commercial oxygen; this is not filtered or controlled for purity and vapour content and may cause lung infections.

Problem is it is the only stuff sold here. The stuff used in most hospitals is the same. Western standards do not apply here. Concentraors are possibly better for this.

The biggest warning I can give is regarding hypercapnia which COPD patients may be susceptible.

If you note skin turning pink STOP oxygen immediately and call hospital.

If you note O2 sats seem reasonable but pulse elevates and person feels short of breath DO NOT INCREASE OXYGEN stop oxygen and observe.

Failure to check this can result in rapid respitory failure followed by death.