Electric scooter

[AllanB]

Of course driving style matters somewhat (especially if you're hard on the engine), but unless you spend a lot of time coasting with the engine switched off, you're not going to beat the manufacturer's (always optimistic) claim by over 33% no matter how you ride.

I used to measure the gas usage my Wave 125cc that I used for low speed (under 60kph) commuting and saw about 45km/l (which was in line with Honda's claim)- you might see 10-15% more on a 110 with very conservative riding, but that's about it.

What can I say RSD, I did, no question in my calculations and half the time we were two up and with 120 mpg from my Phantom, a heavy bike with a bigger engine, this confirms it. The manufacturers have to be very careful in their claims, as in the west they can be sued, so they come up with conservative and easily achievable figures.

In the UK I have an old 2000 Peugeot 206 1.9D and first two weeks, overall, mostly motorway driving at an OAP 50 mph, I got 84 mpg and Peugeot claim 55-60 mpg.

[BSJ]

There's a heap of electric scooters being made in China nowadays. Like anything Chinese the quality will vary somewhat, as will the supply of spare parts. Batteries shouldn't be a problem as there's dozens of companies in China making batteries.

I don't have anything to do with electric bikes but I do buy products in China and it can be both interesting and frustrating dealing with them!

[RubberSideDown]

OK- I will concede it might be possible given ll2's extreme scenario- I did read a lot of anecdotal reports claiming some pretty high figures, especially from bikes in India- it certainly has never been my own experience of many tens-of-thousands of commuter km on several Honda scooters.

[ll2]

OK- I will concede it might be possible given ll2's extreme scenario- I did read a lot of anecdotal reports claiming some pretty high figures, especially from bikes in India- it certainly has never been my own experience of many tens-of-thousands of commuter km on several Honda scooters.

If you ride a wave hard like a sport bike, it uses a lot of fuel i agree:) bc i own a wave too!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[AllanB]

I was in Ningbo a few years back and around 1/3 of the powered bikes were electric, a lot of people going on with their lives, apparently content (though I almost got run over a dozen times by these silent MF's). But who knows what goes on behind that scene of apparent green bliss, look at some of the cars they drive, the taxi I rode in was a nightmare POC, whereas the boss of the company I visited drove a brand new big Nissan.

Many people have few choices out there, so presumably these leccy scooter riders revert back to their bicycles, when things go wrong.

Compare that to Wave riders here, the damn things start every single morning at the very first prod and you know it will get you where you are going, no question. Even if you are skint and run out, you can buy a 20 baht whisky bottle full of petrol and it will get you there, You can never change the oil, carry your entire family and a tonne of goods and still get there for peanuts.

Why would you relinquish that level of reliability and economy in order to wear a bullshit green jacket, which ain't green at all when you consider the pollution caused by the battery industry and the short product life.

The Wave and all it's predecessors and contemporaries s didn't become popular by accident, they make sense, battery bike alternatives are pure PR bullshit, just like Hybrids and it angers me that so many people believe the hype and buy them.

Green? my arse...

[BSJ]

I was in Ningbo a few years back and around 1/3 of the powered bikes were electric, a lot of people going on with their lives, apparently content (though I almost got run over a dozen times by these silent MF's). But who knows what goes on behind that scene of apparent green bliss, look at some of the cars they drive, the taxi I rode in was a nightmare POC, whereas the boss of the company I visited drove a brand new big Nissan.

Many people have few choices out there, so presumably these leccy scooter riders revert back to their bicycles, when things go wrong.

Compare that to Wave riders here, the dam_n things start every single morning at the very first prod and you know it will get you where you are going, no question. Even if you are skint and run out, you can buy a 20 baht whisky bottle full of petrol and it will get you there, You can never change the oil, carry your entire family and a tonne of goods and still get there for peanuts.

Why would you relinquish that level of reliability and economy in order to wear a bullshit green jacket, which ain't green at all when you consider the pollution caused by the battery industry and the short product life.

The Wave and all it's predecessors and contemporaries s didn't become popular by accident, they make sense, battery bike alternatives are pure PR bullshit, just like Hybrids and it angers me that so many people believe the hype and buy them.

Green? my arse...

I am not against electric scooters or cars but like you I don't think the green angle is worth a sh1t. OK, there's a carbon cost making the things but if they are recharged by solar power or wind there is a payback after a number of years.

[KRS1]

I was in Ningbo a few years back and around 1/3 of the powered bikes were electric, a lot of people going on with their lives, apparently content (though I almost got run over a dozen times by these silent MF's). But who knows what goes on behind that scene of apparent green bliss, look at some of the cars they drive, the taxi I rode in was a nightmare POC, whereas the boss of the company I visited drove a brand new big Nissan.

Many people have few choices out there, so presumably these leccy scooter riders revert back to their bicycles, when things go wrong.

Compare that to Wave riders here, the dam_n things start every single morning at the very first prod and you know it will get you where you are going, no question. Even if you are skint and run out, you can buy a 20 baht whisky bottle full of petrol and it will get you there, You can never change the oil, carry your entire family and a tonne of goods and still get there for peanuts.

Why would you relinquish that level of reliability and economy in order to wear a bullshit green jacket, which ain't green at all when you consider the pollution caused by the battery industry and the short product life.

The Wave and all it's predecessors and contemporaries s didn't become popular by accident, they make sense, battery bike alternatives are pure PR bullshit, just like Hybrids and it angers me that so many people believe the hype and buy them.

Green? my arse...

and what about the pollution caused by the oil / current automotive industry? In a petrol powered bike you have

1) petrol

2) engine oil

3) transmission fluid/ chain lube

4) engine coolant

5) exhaust pipe

6) catalytic convertor

7) internal gears

8) asbestos in the clutch plates

9) chain or drive belt

10) sparkplugs

11) fuel tank

12) fuel filter

13) throttle bodies or carbs

14) plastic air box

15) air filter element

16) rubber lines

17) fuel filter

18) gaskets

19) more screws and bolts

20) piston & rings

21) tons of machining and casting

22) cams

23) timing chain

24) timing gears

25) valves

26) valve springs

27) clutch springs

28) clutch basket

29) pressure plates

30) fuel valve

31) thermostat

32) radiator

33) impeller blades

34) more bearings

35) shifter fork/lever

36) clutch lever

in an electric vehicle you have

1) motor

2) battery

3) speed controller

you need to look farther than the tip of your nose.

microwave technology is the next revolution, not solar or wind or hydro...Tesla knew this, and we are starting to rediscover it, what he called the ether we call microwaves.

Edited November 13, 2013 by KRS1

[ll2]

^

good point of view but, lost of environmental issues regarding the manufacture of electric engines and batteries.

and i dont think so we got a microwave bike soon. - i hope anyway!

[AllanB]

I was in Ningbo a few years back and around 1/3 of the powered bikes were electric, a lot of people going on with their lives, apparently content (though I almost got run over a dozen times by these silent MF's). But who knows what goes on behind that scene of apparent green bliss, look at some of the cars they drive, the taxi I rode in was a nightmare POC, whereas the boss of the company I visited drove a brand new big Nissan.

Many people have few choices out there, so presumably these leccy scooter riders revert back to their bicycles, when things go wrong.

Compare that to Wave riders here, the dam_n things start every single morning at the very first prod and you know it will get you where you are going, no question. Even if you are skint and run out, you can buy a 20 baht whisky bottle full of petrol and it will get you there, You can never change the oil, carry your entire family and a tonne of goods and still get there for peanuts.

Why would you relinquish that level of reliability and economy in order to wear a bullshit green jacket, which ain't green at all when you consider the pollution caused by the battery industry and the short product life.

The Wave and all it's predecessors and contemporaries s didn't become popular by accident, they make sense, battery bike alternatives are pure PR bullshit, just like Hybrids and it angers me that so many people believe the hype and buy them.

Green? my arse...

and what about the pollution caused by the oil / current automotive industry? In a petrol powered bike you have

1) petrol

2) engine oil

3) transmission fluid/ chain lube

4) engine coolant

5) exhaust pipe

6) catalytic convertor

7) internal gears

8) asbestos in the clutch plates

9) chain or drive belt

10) sparkplugs

11) fuel tank

12) fuel filter

13) throttle bodies or carbs

14) plastic air box

15) air filter element

16) rubber lines

17) fuel filter

18) gaskets

19) more screws and bolts

20) piston & rings

21) tons of machining and casting

22) cams

23) timing chain

24) timing gears

25) valves

26) valve springs

27) clutch springs

28) clutch basket

29) pressure plates

30) fuel valve

31) thermostat

32) radiator

33) impeller blades

34) more bearings

35) shifter fork/lever

36) clutch lever

in an electric vehicle you have

1) motor

2) battery

3) speed controller

you need to look farther than the tip of your nose.

microwave technology is the next revolution, not solar or wind or hydro...Tesla knew this, and we are starting to rediscover it, what he called the ether we call microwaves.

Interesting simplification...how does this motor-battery-speed controller contraption actually move? Plus it is a big battery, a big motor and a complicated speed controller and you forgot about the charging system, etc, etc, plus the life cycle of all these crappy parts.

If you think these so called technologies are going to be suddenly available to us as all when they are arrive, then you know nothing about the real word. What do you think the massively rich and powerful oil companies are going to feel about losing all their money? Remember Iraq, they killed over a million people to protect 2% of the world oil supply.

I don't think you even look past an eyelash.

Why don't we have a 200 mpg car, or even a 100 mpg car, we are not waiting for the technology, it has been available for 60 years?

[KRS1]

^

good point of view but, lost of environmental issues regarding the manufacture of electric engines and batteries.

and i dont think so we got a microwave bike soon. - i hope anyway!

not nearly as many as the manufacture of petrol vehicles.

the biggest issues are that they require rare earth minerals like lithium and neodymium elements.

traditional lead acid batteries have an excellent track record of recycling, theres lots of money involved...when you go to change your lead battery, they recycle them.

Lithium batteries do not have any lead in them, but are rare minerals.

[KRS1]

I was in Ningbo a few years back and around 1/3 of the powered bikes were electric, a lot of people going on with their lives, apparently content (though I almost got run over a dozen times by these silent MF's). But who knows what goes on behind that scene of apparent green bliss, look at some of the cars they drive, the taxi I rode in was a nightmare POC, whereas the boss of the company I visited drove a brand new big Nissan.

Many people have few choices out there, so presumably these leccy scooter riders revert back to their bicycles, when things go wrong.

Compare that to Wave riders here, the dam_n things start every single morning at the very first prod and you know it will get you where you are going, no question. Even if you are skint and run out, you can buy a 20 baht whisky bottle full of petrol and it will get you there, You can never change the oil, carry your entire family and a tonne of goods and still get there for peanuts.

Why would you relinquish that level of reliability and economy in order to wear a bullshit green jacket, which ain't green at all when you consider the pollution caused by the battery industry and the short product life.

The Wave and all it's predecessors and contemporaries s didn't become popular by accident, they make sense, battery bike alternatives are pure PR bullshit, just like Hybrids and it angers me that so many people believe the hype and buy them.

Green? my arse...

and what about the pollution caused by the oil / current automotive industry? In a petrol powered bike you have

1) petrol

2) engine oil

3) transmission fluid/ chain lube

4) engine coolant

5) exhaust pipe

6) catalytic convertor

7) internal gears

8) asbestos in the clutch plates

9) chain or drive belt

10) sparkplugs

11) fuel tank

12) fuel filter

13) throttle bodies or carbs

14) plastic air box

15) air filter element

16) rubber lines

17) fuel filter

18) gaskets

19) more screws and bolts

20) piston & rings

21) tons of machining and casting

22) cams

23) timing chain

24) timing gears

25) valves

26) valve springs

27) clutch springs

28) clutch basket

29) pressure plates

30) fuel valve

31) thermostat

32) radiator

33) impeller blades

34) more bearings

35) shifter fork/lever

36) clutch lever

in an electric vehicle you have

1) motor

2) battery

3) speed controller

you need to look farther than the tip of your nose.

microwave technology is the next revolution, not solar or wind or hydro...Tesla knew this, and we are starting to rediscover it, what he called the ether we call microwaves.

Interesting simplification...how does this motor-battery-speed controller contraption actually move? Plus it is a big battery, a big motor and a complicated speed controller and you forgot about the charging system, etc, etc, plus the life cycle of all these crappy parts.

If you think these so called technologies are going to be suddenly available to us as all when they are arrive, then you know nothing about the real word. What do you think the massively rich and powerful oil companies are going to feel about losing all their money? Remember Iraq, they killed over a million people to protect 2% of the world oil supply.

I don't think you even look past an eyelash.

Why don't we have a 200 mpg car, or even a 100 mpg car, we are not waiting for the technology, it has been available for 60 years?

speed controllers arent complicated,theyre just complicated to 'you' because you dont know how they work....basicly it works on the same concept as a stereo amplifier, and the recharging circuits are built in...and as you probably dont know, transistors and circuit boards are made of silicon, one of the most abundant elements on earth.

Besides, the complexity of design is much less than that of an internal combustion engine.

batteries are only big for racing applications for the current needed for acceleration. The average commuter stays well within range of an electric vehicles battery capacity. Its not everyday that you travel over 100km per day.

to have the acceleration of a honda wave it would only require a motor the size of a coke can. The KV indicates how many revolutions it turns per volt, then you gear it to match your application. Electric motors have the greatest amount of torque at start up.

the life cycle is very high if designed correctly, the motor and speed controller will last just as long as any piston will....i still have Orion car amplifiers that work to this day and have higher output than current day equipment, they made them right back then... The battery of course will wear down after time, but so do pistons, bearings, sprockets and whatever.... but there is a company in denmark who has figured out a way to replace the gel, instead of replacing the entire battery.

the oil companies will only win, if they influence feable minded people who walk behind others like sheep. Its your decision, not theirs. They cannot stop you from making one or buying one. I can go out and buy one tomorrow, and there isnt any oil company stopping me from doing it.

We dont have 100-200mpg cars because they would run so weakly and be so powerless no one would have fun driving them.

The technology is already here and already available - just not in thailand.

[AllanB]

I was in Ningbo a few years back and around 1/3 of the powered bikes were electric, a lot of people going on with their lives, apparently content (though I almost got run over a dozen times by these silent MF's). But who knows what goes on behind that scene of apparent green bliss, look at some of the cars they drive, the taxi I rode in was a nightmare POC, whereas the boss of the company I visited drove a brand new big Nissan.

Many people have few choices out there, so presumably these leccy scooter riders revert back to their bicycles, when things go wrong.

Compare that to Wave riders here, the dam_n things start every single morning at the very first prod and you know it will get you where you are going, no question. Even if you are skint and run out, you can buy a 20 baht whisky bottle full of petrol and it will get you there, You can never change the oil, carry your entire family and a tonne of goods and still get there for peanuts.

Why would you relinquish that level of reliability and economy in order to wear a bullshit green jacket, which ain't green at all when you consider the pollution caused by the battery industry and the short product life.

The Wave and all it's predecessors and contemporaries s didn't become popular by accident, they make sense, battery bike alternatives are pure PR bullshit, just like Hybrids and it angers me that so many people believe the hype and buy them.

Green? my arse...

and what about the pollution caused by the oil / current automotive industry? In a petrol powered bike you have

1) petrol

2) engine oil

3) transmission fluid/ chain lube

4) engine coolant

5) exhaust pipe

6) catalytic convertor

7) internal gears

8) asbestos in the clutch plates

9) chain or drive belt

10) sparkplugs

11) fuel tank

12) fuel filter

13) throttle bodies or carbs

14) plastic air box

15) air filter element

16) rubber lines

17) fuel filter

18) gaskets

19) more screws and bolts

20) piston & rings

21) tons of machining and casting

22) cams

23) timing chain

24) timing gears

25) valves

26) valve springs

27) clutch springs

28) clutch basket

29) pressure plates

30) fuel valve

31) thermostat

32) radiator

33) impeller blades

34) more bearings

35) shifter fork/lever

36) clutch lever

in an electric vehicle you have

1) motor

2) battery

3) speed controller

you need to look farther than the tip of your nose.

microwave technology is the next revolution, not solar or wind or hydro...Tesla knew this, and we are starting to rediscover it, what he called the ether we call microwaves.

Interesting simplification...how does this motor-battery-speed controller contraption actually move? Plus it is a big battery, a big motor and a complicated speed controller and you forgot about the charging system, etc, etc, plus the life cycle of all these crappy parts.

If you think these so called technologies are going to be suddenly available to us as all when they are arrive, then you know nothing about the real word. What do you think the massively rich and powerful oil companies are going to feel about losing all their money? Remember Iraq, they killed over a million people to protect 2% of the world oil supply.

I don't think you even look past an eyelash.

Why don't we have a 200 mpg car, or even a 100 mpg car, we are not waiting for the technology, it has been available for 60 years?

speed controllers arent complicated,theyre just complicated to 'you' because you dont know how they work....basicly it works on the same concept as a stereo amplifier, and the recharging circuits are built in...and as you probably dont know, transistors and circuit boards are made of silicon, one of the most abundant elements on earth.

Besides, the complexity of design is much less than that of an internal combustion engine.

batteries are only big for racing applications for the current needed for acceleration. The average commuter stays well within range of an electric vehicles battery capacity. Its not everyday that you travel over 100km per day.

to have the acceleration of a honda wave it would only require a motor the size of a coke can. The KV indicates how many revolutions it turns per volt, then you gear it to match your application. Electric motors have the greatest amount of torque at start up.

the life cycle is very high if designed correctly, the motor and speed controller will last just as long as any piston will....i still have Orion car amplifiers that work to this day and have higher output than current day equipment, they made them right back then... The battery of course will wear down after time, but so do pistons, bearings, sprockets and whatever.... but there is a company in denmark who has figured out a way to replace the gel, instead of replacing the entire battery.

the oil companies will only win, if they influence feable minded people who walk behind others like sheep. Its your decision, not theirs. They cannot stop you from making one or buying one. I can go out and buy one tomorrow, and there isnt any oil company stopping me from doing it.

We dont have 100-200mpg cars because they would run so weakly and be so powerless no one would have fun driving them.

The technology is already here and already available - just not in thailand.

I don't need a lesson from on how speed controllers work, but I dare say a Thai mechanic would and I doubt very much whether your theoretical knowledge will help the pair of you when it goes wrong. Might get a radio station but not much forward motion.

The middle part of your reply has nothing to do with the subject matter, besides there is always a Danish company that.has this new thing to make us all green.

Oil companies and their backers will always win, show me a significant instance when they haven't.

What has weakening the mixture got to do with quadrupling the mpg, do you think it is achieved by fuel starvation? My goodness me, the lights are on but no one is home. It is a very simple a couple of batteries and a petrol generator, or for 200 mpg a couple of batteries and a tdi engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv3vw7vnFEk

Strip away the bullshit high tech crap and that is what you have here. Carbon fibre is cheap, so is aluminium, energy reclaim is inefficient and aerodynamics are ineffectual at low speed.

They were talking about 100 mpg 45 years ago when I was studying engineering, we thought then we would get it, now we know better.

Edited November 13, 2013 by AllanB

[wantan]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.
- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

[AllanB]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.

- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

I agree, sorry.

Being independent of gas stations?...mmmm.., being independent of someone who gets you home..and that's a good thing?

Zero emissions...mmm..if you like, no smell? absolutely, no noise? can be dangerous as I explained.

Less servicing , I would say that is 50/50 in the long run.

Having fun on an electric bike? have you ever ridden one? I can tell you they are as much fun as watching paint dry.

If you think that is saving the planet...groovy man.

Edited November 13, 2013 by AllanB

[wantan]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.

- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

I agree, sorry.

Being independent of gas stations?...mmmm.., being independent of someone who gets you home..and that's a good thing?

Zero emissions...mmm..if you like, no smell? absolutely, no noise? can be dangerous as I explained.

Less servicing , I would say that is 50/50 in the long run.

Having fun on an electric bike? have you ever ridden one? I can tell you they are as much fun as watching paint dry.

If you think that is saving the planet...groovy man.

You are the one who started this "green - planet saving with e-bikes" discussion bullshit. Noone has said a word about this before. And i said this is not really important for most buyers. But it seems you just have too much time to waste. Don't want to use the t-word

[AllanB]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.

- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

I agree, sorry.

Being independent of gas stations?...mmmm.., being independent of someone who gets you home..and that's a good thing?

Zero emissions...mmm..if you like, no smell? absolutely, no noise? can be dangerous as I explained.

Less servicing , I would say that is 50/50 in the long run.

Having fun on an electric bike? have you ever ridden one? I can tell you they are as much fun as watching paint dry.

If you think that is saving the planet...groovy man.

You are the one who started this "green - planet saving with e-bikes" discussion bullshit. Noone has said a word about this before. And i said this is not really important for most buyers. But it seems you just have too much time to waste. Don't want to use the t-word

So there is another reason for buying an electric scooter, other than saving the plant?

You are right, too much time on our hands, however, it is a subject I am interested in, why people buy these second rate products like the Prius and these over priced scooters, because we flogged "the line".

But as I already mentioned if I lived 5 km from my only destination, I may buy one...but then I may move house or job and then I am buggad..

[RubberSideDown]

There are indeed some worthwhile electric bikes currently available- their main drawback is cost, but that will drop over time as the technology becomes more widespread.

This is the Zero S- it has a cruising range of 170+ miles in the city and 85+ miles on the highway, batteries made to last the life of the bike (300,000+ miles), and it puts put 67hp and 106 ft/lbs (which is close to my 1441cc bike)- fully optioned it's $15,500 which is way too much for what it offers, but that price will certainly decrease in the coming years:

[Madgee]

from my own personal experience, having owned several e-scooters in China, they are awful things!

Initially they seem inexpensive to run and maintain but the build quality of most are terrible, even the so-called upmarket bikes that are more powerful soon succumb to the rigors of general use.

Replacement batteries are expensive and needed every 10,000km.

Electrics are subject to frequent breakdowns and replacement.

Dangerous! Because they run silently, people tend to jump out in front of you!

Do not like the rain.

Do not like inclines, saps the power very quickly.

Charging takes hours, preferably overnight. Chargers often overheat.

To get anywhere near the predicted mileage you must close the throttle on any declines and try not use the brakes, instead use the existing motion to gradually decelerate. Two people on an e-scooter halves the predicted mileage.

They are very frustrating machines to ride, just when you think you have enough power left to get home they suddenly begin to 'die', especially on aged batteries.

As you have probably gathered, I hate the bloody things!

[KRS1]

speed controllers arent complicated,theyre just complicated to 'you' because you dont know how they work....basicly it works on the same concept as a stereo amplifier, and the recharging circuits are built in...and as you probably dont know, transistors and circuit boards are made of silicon, one of the most abundant elements on earth.

Besides, the complexity of design is much less than that of an internal combustion engine.

batteries are only big for racing applications for the current needed for acceleration. The average commuter stays well within range of an electric vehicles battery capacity. Its not everyday that you travel over 100km per day.

to have the acceleration of a honda wave it would only require a motor the size of a coke can. The KV indicates how many revolutions it turns per volt, then you gear it to match your application. Electric motors have the greatest amount of torque at start up.

the life cycle is very high if designed correctly, the motor and speed controller will last just as long as any piston will....i still have Orion car amplifiers that work to this day and have higher output than current day equipment, they made them right back then... The battery of course will wear down after time, but so do pistons, bearings, sprockets and whatever.... but there is a company in denmark who has figured out a way to replace the gel, instead of replacing the entire battery.

the oil companies will only win, if they influence feable minded people who walk behind others like sheep. Its your decision, not theirs. They cannot stop you from making one or buying one. I can go out and buy one tomorrow, and there isnt any oil company stopping me from doing it.

We dont have 100-200mpg cars because they would run so weakly and be so powerless no one would have fun driving them.

The technology is already here and already available - just not in thailand.

I don't need a lesson from on how speed controllers work, but I dare say a Thai mechanic would and I doubt very much whether your theoretical knowledge will help the pair of you when it goes wrong. Might get a radio station but not much forward motion.

The middle part of your reply has nothing to do with the subject matter, besides there is always a Danish company that.has this new thing to make us all green.

Oil companies and their backers will always win, show me a significant instance when they haven't.

What has weakening the mixture got to do with quadrupling the mpg, do you think it is achieved by fuel starvation? My goodness me, the lights are on but no one is home. It is a very simple a couple of batteries and a petrol generator, or for 200 mpg a couple of batteries and a tdi engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv3vw7vnFEk

Strip away the bullshit high tech crap and that is what you have here. Carbon fibre is cheap, so is aluminium, energy reclaim is inefficient and aerodynamics are ineffectual at low speed.

They were talking about 100 mpg 45 years ago when I was studying engineering, we thought then we would get it, now we know better.

actually yes you do need a lesson in how speed controllers work, because you do not know how they operate, you think its overly complex when they are not. Its simply pulse voltage or pulse width modulation in there most basic forms, although there are other designs out there like class H and D.

that danish company is the missing link to converting to electric - no more waiting for charging, denmark also leads the world in wind power at 30%, by 2020 they aim at achieving 50%...fossil fuels are the oldest form of energy, it will take time to get off it.

I didnt say anything about weakening the mixture, you seeing things, hearing little voices in your head maybe?...you seem to be an engineer, tell us - how do you achieve 200 mpg on petrol alone like you stated? But now your turning the subject into hybrids, because you know your argument was weak with no backbone.

you do realize that the video you posted is a hybrid, meaning that it uses ELECTRICITY too dont ya?...but then again you are against electric...so you seem to be contradicting yourself.

you ever heard of tesla motors? doesnt seem like the oil companies are stopping them...F1 is also going to start racing electrics in the FE series.

you think carbon fiber is cheap? lol when was the last time you bought some? ive laid CF and made molds and experimented with all types of epoxies and weaves...it aint cheap !

anyway, have fun...if i dont reply to your next reply, its not because your right, its just because you aint worth my time.

[AllanB]

from my own personal experience, having owned several e-scooters in China, they are awful things!

Initially they seem inexpensive to run and maintain but the build quality of most are terrible, even the so-called upmarket bikes that are more powerful soon succumb to the rigors of general use.

Replacement batteries are expensive and needed every 10,000km.

Electrics are subject to frequent breakdowns and replacement.

Dangerous! Because they run silently, people tend to jump out in front of you!

Do not like the rain.

Do not like inclines, saps the power very quickly.

Charging takes hours, preferably overnight. Chargers often overheat.

To get anywhere near the predicted mileage you must close the throttle on any declines and try not use the brakes, instead use the existing motion to gradually decelerate. Two people on an e-scooter halves the predicted mileage.

They are very frustrating machines to ride, just when you think you have enough power left to get home they suddenly begin to 'die', especially on aged batteries.

As you have probably gathered, I hate the bloody things!

I spend only a week in China, but this man has been an owner, he has real experience, listen to him, not the crap you read in the brochure.

Look around you here in Thailand do you think you know better than these tens of millions of hard working penny pinching locals who work their bikes to death, trouble is the bikes refuse to die. Give a Thai market trader a Chinese leccy and it wouldn't last the morning...and that kinda of settles the argument for me, green, pink, or otherwise.

[wantan]

Look around you here in Thailand do you think you know better than these tens of millions of hard working penny pinching locals who work their bikes to death, trouble is the bikes refuse to die. Give a Thai market trader a Chinese leccy and it wouldn't last the morning...and that kinda of settles the argument for me, green, pink, or otherwise.

AlanB whats wrong with you? The Honda Wave has one problem why it can not be the winner in this thread. It isn't an electric bike. So hard to understand?

Why buying the cheapest chinese crap? There are many solid e-bikes out there used by many people every day.

In Thailand there are e.g. the products from "LA E-Ride". Pretty sure they don't break down like some supercheap chinese products.

And in Europe there are e.g. e-scooters made by Peugeot:

Edited November 13, 2013 by wantan

[BSJ]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.

- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

"- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise" Well that's true, but don't forget the extra emissions at the power station coming from the recharging process.

[BirdsandBooze]

Here is a video of electric racer at the 2013 Isle Of Man TT races

[AllanB]

Look around you here in Thailand do you think you know better than these tens of millions of hard working penny pinching locals who work their bikes to death, trouble is the bikes refuse to die. Give a Thai market trader a Chinese leccy and it wouldn't last the morning...and that kinda of settles the argument for me, green, pink, or otherwise.

AlanB whats wrong with you? The Honda Wave has one problem why it can not be the winner in this thread. It isn't an electric bike. So hard to understand?

Why buying the cheapest chinese crap? There are many solid e-bikes out there used by many people every day.

In Thailand there are e.g. the products from "LA E-Ride". Pretty sure they don't break down like some supercheap chinese products.

And in Europe there are e.g. e-scooters made by Peugeot:

Well, wantan, the clue is in the original question "Hi, I am considering buying electric scooter" and my advice is "don't". Get it?

And just how much are you going to pay for this quality Peugeot scooter, funny I don't recall the French being renown for quality, so when it does go wrong who is going to fix it and where are the parts going to come from? Can you get tyres for it?

But, Mr Wantan says he is pretty sure they don't break down, so that's okay.... You don't often get personal guarantees on these forums.

Edited November 13, 2013 by AllanB

[KRS1]

from my own personal experience, having owned several e-scooters in China, they are awful things!

Initially they seem inexpensive to run and maintain but the build quality of most are terrible, even the so-called upmarket bikes that are more powerful soon succumb to the rigors of general use.

Replacement batteries are expensive and needed every 10,000km.

Electrics are subject to frequent breakdowns and replacement.

Dangerous! Because they run silently, people tend to jump out in front of you!

Do not like the rain.

Do not like inclines, saps the power very quickly.

Charging takes hours, preferably overnight. Chargers often overheat.

To get anywhere near the predicted mileage you must close the throttle on any declines and try not use the brakes, instead use the existing motion to gradually decelerate. Two people on an e-scooter halves the predicted mileage.

They are very frustrating machines to ride, just when you think you have enough power left to get home they suddenly begin to 'die', especially on aged batteries.

As you have probably gathered, I hate the bloody things!

Thats what happens when you buy cheap.

As far as the batteries are concerned, I know you bought a cheap ebike, because a quality battery from A123 systems has linear power output until complete discharge.All that is needed is a reserve battery to get you home, just like a reserve on a bike....bikes run out of fuel as well....your mileage also drops when carrying a passenger on a petrol powered bike....waves and clicks are pretty damn silent too !

A well engineered ebike will have regenerative charging when you apply the brakes, this energy is then stored in capacitors to be used upon start off, where the largest current drain is.

inclines ? someone just needs to design an ebike with gears, problem solved.

Electrics if engineered correctly and not designed to cut corners will not break down frequently, sometimes it can boil down to the mosfets in the speed controllers, using a cheap IRF44 mosfet with a high EDS rating will be no match for a more efficient mosfet like the IRF3205 with extremely low EDS and cooler operating temperature, the price difference is about 50 cents each.

yes charging time currently sucks, but thats why you keep two batteries.

[KRS1]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.

- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

"- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise" Well that's true, but don't forget the extra emissions at the power station coming from the recharging process.

for a petrol powered bike:

1) electricity plant makes power for oil refinery

2) oil refinery uses electricity and other cracking processes to make fuel

3) petrol is stored and has losses from evaporation.

4) petrol is transported by truck to gas station (which uses even more petrol) then truck must drive back also.

5) petro is stored at the gas station, the gas station uses more electricity from electricity plant to operate.

6) car owner must drive to gas station , which requires using more fuel.

and that doesnt include the energy required to drill for the oil and to transport it.

for an electric bike

1) electricity plant makes electricity for electric vehicle

2) electricity is delivered through high voltage ac lines, with losses also.

3) you plug your electric vehicle in at home

Edited November 14, 2013 by KRS1

[wantan]

Well, wantan, the clue is in the original question "Hi, I am considering buying electric scooter" and my advice is "don't". Get it?

And just how much are you going to pay for this quality Peugeot scooter, funny I don't recall the French being renown for quality, so when it does go wrong who is going to fix it and where are the parts going to come from? Can you get tyres for it?

But, Mr Wantan says he is pretty sure they don't break down, so that's okay.... You don't often get personal guarantees on these forums.

OK, my last post to you in this thread as you are obviously neither interested in e-bikes nor you have any clue about them or the technology. I can at least say i am very interested and i always want to know more about such things.

For all people who are interested:

Peugeot has a long tradition in producing quality 2-wheeled vehicles of many types.

Here are the current models: http://www.peugeot.com/en/products-services/scooters

They also have a long tradition in building quality bicycles. Here the current electric bicycle models:

http://www.peugeot.com/en/products-services/cycles

Here some information about the Peugeot e-scooter:

http://www.e-vivacity.com/en

[BSJ]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.

- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

"- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise" Well that's true, but don't forget the extra emissions at the power station coming from the recharging process.

for a petrol powered bike:

1) electricity plant makes power for oil refinery

2) oil refinery uses electricity and other cracking processes to make fuel

3) petrol is stored and has losses from evaporation.

4) petrol is transported by truck to gas station (which uses even more petrol) then truck must drive back also.

5) petro is stored at the gas station, the gas station uses more electricity from electricity plant to operate.

6) car owner must drive to gas station , which requires using more fuel.

and that doesnt include the energy required to drill for the oil and to transport it.

for an electric bike

1) electricity plant makes electricity for electric vehicle

2) electricity is delivered through high voltage ac lines, with losses also.

3) you plug your electric vehicle in at home

I understand your point of view.

But you missed a few steps for electric bike.

a/ The cost of discovering coal

b/ The cost of extracting the coal

c/ The cost of transporting the coal

d/ The cost of building extra generating capacity

The only way to charge your electric bike without adding load to the system is by solar or wind.

[Madgee]

Well, wantan, the clue is in the original question "Hi, I am considering buying electric scooter" and my advice is "don't". Get it?

And just how much are you going to pay for this quality Peugeot scooter, funny I don't recall the French being renown for quality, so when it does go wrong who is going to fix it and where are the parts going to come from? Can you get tyres for it?

But, Mr Wantan says he is pretty sure they don't break down, so that's okay.... You don't often get personal guarantees on these forums.

OK, my last post to you in this thread as you are obviously neither interested in e-bikes nor you have any clue about them or the technology. I can at least say i am very interested and i always want to know more about such things.

For all people who are interested:

Peugeot has a long tradition in producing quality 2-wheeled vehicles of many types.

Here are the current models: http://www.peugeot.com/en/products-services/scooters

They also have a long tradition in building quality bicycles. Here the current electric bicycle models:

http://www.peugeot.com/en/products-services/cycles

Here some information about the Peugeot e-scooter:

http://www.e-vivacity.com/en

you say that you have an interest in these things so, no doubt, you have read the info on the 'Vivacity' e-scooter.

List Price: around 200,000 baht

Top Speed: 50kmh

Range: 60km

Battery Guarantee: 4 years

The OP asked about e-scooters so I'm dismissing e-bikes which are totally different.

Chinese crap of similar stats:

List Price: around 20,000 baht

Top Speed: 50kmh

Range: 60km

Battery Guarantee: 1 year

Absolutely no resale value anywhere.

I'd be the first to admit the build quality of most machines of Chinese origin would be inferior to those from Europe and the 'green' issues are open to debate.

The main issues with e-scooters are the range and charging issues.

Dealers recommend customers to only re-charge when the batteries are nearly exhausted to maintain the battery life, this is a constant frustration when you might need a full charge.

The simple fact of remembering to plug it in to re-charge is a pain.

A poster mentioned about keeping a spare battery?

They are not like an everyready battery to replace. On most e-scooters the batteries are located under the seat requiring the total removal of the seat and some wires unbolted.

JMHO, I would not recommend an e-scooter to the OP, too much hassle.

[KRS1]

Things are going a bit offtopic, aren't they?

There are various reasons to buy an electric bike/scooter.

- being independent of gas stations, benzine and oil industry

- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise

- less service needed, mainly replacing the battery after some time and checking the brakes

- having fun because all of that

I am sure there are more reasons for the individual buyers. No, imo "saving money" or "saving the world" are not the most important reasons to buy an electric bike

"- zero emissions while riding, no smell, no noise" Well that's true, but don't forget the extra emissions at the power station coming from the recharging process.

for a petrol powered bike:

1) electricity plant makes power for oil refinery

2) oil refinery uses electricity and other cracking processes to make fuel

3) petrol is stored and has losses from evaporation.

4) petrol is transported by truck to gas station (which uses even more petrol) then truck must drive back also.

5) petro is stored at the gas station, the gas station uses more electricity from electricity plant to operate.

6) car owner must drive to gas station , which requires using more fuel.

and that doesnt include the energy required to drill for the oil and to transport it.

for an electric bike

1) electricity plant makes electricity for electric vehicle

2) electricity is delivered through high voltage ac lines, with losses also.

3) you plug your electric vehicle in at home

I understand your point of view.

But you missed a few steps for electric bike.

a/ The cost of discovering coal

b/ The cost of extracting the coal

c/ The cost of transporting the coal

d/ The cost of building extra generating capacity

The only way to charge your electric bike without adding load to the system is by solar or wind.

you need to do that to power oil refineries and make the parts for combustion engines also.

but with electric vehicles, you dont have the exhaust that comes out the pipe, and cut logistics out of transporting petrol out of the equation.