Hasn't the minimum wage pushed up prices!

[thaicbr]

 

 

The rate of increase has been noticeable.  Anyway your disturbing my dance practise, cheerio,  

Prices have gone up, but they've been going up for the whole twenty years + that I've been coming here. 

 

No evidence at all that the minimum wage is the cause of Thailand's inflation - inflation which the rest of the worlds economies are experiencing..... incase you missed the point. 

 

That's true but prices have risen at a sharper level in the last 2 years. It's only government price capping on essential items that make it seem better than it is. And those companies being capped on certain products are generally making it back on other non capped products. It will soon get worse with the impending collapse of the rice farming industry. There are only SO many customers for the rice.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

 

 

What are you talking about collapse of the rice industry?

 

You have inside knowledge?

 

Thailand has been the worlds leading exporter of rice until the stupid rice scheme, so how exactly do you arrive at a rice crash?

You answered the question. Before the scheme Thailand was top. They are not now. And they are sitting on over 25 million tons of rice.

Not hard to work out.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[i claudius]

Here's a problem with the argument that a minimum wage costs jobs.

The same arguments were made when the UK introduced a minimum wage - No such job losses occurred - the economy actually grew.

And for the record - inflation has accelerated everywhere these past two years - it's a global economic problem - it is not something creatd by Thailand's minimum wage laws.

Rubbish ,show me the facts behind this balderdash.

[i claudius]

Incase you aren't aware, the government have a need to produce economic growth.

Sharing profits to low income workers is a very effective means of generating growth - They spend all their income on local goods and services - they don't stuff it in their mattress or spend it on imported cars (tax paid or not).

MY you do talk a lot of rubbish ,but go on ,i bet you are the left wing trotsky i refused to carry on talking to in tuk com

[MrHammer]

Government doesn't need to stimulate any growth. There is zero evidence for this. We have overwhelming evidence that free market capitalism brings growth and lifts people out of poverty. China is a good example. Their special economic zones are freer than most western countries and they are prospering. Millions and millions of people have been lifted out of poverty through free market capitalism.

Thailands fundamental poverty problems stems from lack of education and corruption. Both a cause of a feudal culture, not lack of government involvement. Thailand has a superb free market on the micro scale as witnessed by the masses of small shops and street markets but has huge structural problems on a large scale because of the widespread corruption and mixing of business and politics.

[theblether]

Here is the problem with minimum wage and unions.

You might say, that it is only a small sum, but consider a factory hiring 500 employees, it adds up. Or consider the fact that many around the minimum wage do jobs for people that aren't strictly nessecary but adds to quality of life such as cleaning etc.

At some point, which is different for everyone, you're not going to pay someone to clean, but do it yourself instead. Not because 100 baht more will break your budget, but because other price increases all together makes you cut back.

The time you spent on cleaning can't be spent on working, so you take money out of the economy or if you didn't work, you can't spend while you're cleaning. Plus the cleaning lady won't get any money. The net result is a negative on the economy.

Now with a minimum wage, some people are not going to be worth that minimum wage. It is that simple. If you can't earn back what you pay someone in wages of course you're not going to hire them.

Eventually the growing number of unemployed will lead to demands for more welfare and jobless payments. And then my friends, is the country on the downwards spiral into populist socialist dictatorship as we have it in Europe.

Unions are little more than mafia enterprises on labor these days. They made sense 100 years ago when security was absent in the workplace, but today, they're useless parasites on productive people.

Absolute rubbish. There is no proof that minimum wages causes unemployment. It will only cause inflation for the rich, who are overpaid anyways.

It's not rubbish, I and other people know of people here in Thailand who have lost their jobs due to the minimum wage. One girl was laid off in the cafe next door for exactly that reason, so keep your hair on, some of us are actually witnessing it.

[theblether]

MrHammer, I love you

[jpeg]

It's nominal. I personaly hope wages do increase and things get a bit more expensive might drive away some of the people who just scrape by or some of the masses of lets take the family to holiday in Thailand groups. Maybe then Thailand can go back to being a bit more quiet and a bit more chill

I would prefer to see a retirement visa raised to 2 million bht and some sort of entry fee of 6000 bht or so

Could not agree more

You're the types I detest here on Phuket. Along with the Chang drinking wifebeater wearing mongers who would still find the money to come and litter the once pristine landscape with ever more beer bars and sod all else.

[jpeg]

Here is the problem with minimum wage and unions.

You might say, that it is only a small sum, but consider a factory hiring 500 employees, it adds up. Or consider the fact that many around the minimum wage do jobs for people that aren't strictly nessecary but adds to quality of life such as cleaning etc.

At some point, which is different for everyone, you're not going to pay someone to clean, but do it yourself instead. Not because 100 baht more will break your budget, but because other price increases all together makes you cut back.

The time you spent on cleaning can't be spent on working, so you take money out of the economy or if you didn't work, you can't spend while you're cleaning. Plus the cleaning lady won't get any money. The net result is a negative on the economy.

Now with a minimum wage, some people are not going to be worth that minimum wage. It is that simple. If you can't earn back what you pay someone in wages of course you're not going to hire them.

Eventually the growing number of unemployed will lead to demands for more welfare and jobless payments. And then my friends, is the country on the downwards spiral into populist socialist dictatorship as we have it in Europe.

Unions are little more than mafia enterprises on labor these days. They made sense 100 years ago when security was absent in the workplace, but today, they're useless parasites on productive people.

Absolute rubbish. There is no proof that minimum wages causes unemployment. It will only cause inflation for the rich, who are overpaid anyways.

It's not rubbish, I and other people know of people here in Thailand who have lost their jobs due to the minimum wage. One girl was laid off in the cafe next door for exactly that reason, so keep your hair on, some of us are actually witnessing it.

If someone is unable to factor in a living wage for their staff, they've no business setting up a business. End of.

[Rust Never Sleeps]

So it was the minimum wage earner who caused the GFC of 2008.I thought it was deregulation of the market system.

[MrHammer]

So it was the minimum wage earner who caused the GFC of 2008.I thought it was deregulation of the market system.

The credit crunch and subprime crisis was primarily caused by artificially low interest rates by the Federal Reserve in attempts to meddle in the market. That led to malinvestments along with the political choice to push home ownership on low income groups. Without the Federal Reserve and the government interfering in the market the 2008 crash would never have happened.

[jpeg]

Thailand's Government Policies and Monopolies within Thailand's economies are forcing prices up - the global promotion of bio-fuel is taking land out of food production and forcing up food prices globally.

As happened catastrophically in, I believe, 2007. The price of rice alone doubled literally overnight and has still not come back to anywhere near former levels.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

My expectation would be another mistake to combat the last mistake but not the same mistake ! .... free stuff or price controls on food and fuel for example

Free rice for all!

(After all, they have plenty hanging around)

Edited June 27, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

For those of you talking rubbish about the unemployed.

There is no unemployment in Thailand, everyone who wants to work can do so.

Unemployment only rises in countries that have a welfare state.

[chiang mai]

Here is the problem with minimum wage and unions.

You might say, that it is only a small sum, but consider a factory hiring 500 employees, it adds up. Or consider the fact that many around the minimum wage do jobs for people that aren't strictly nessecary but adds to quality of life such as cleaning etc.

At some point, which is different for everyone, you're not going to pay someone to clean, but do it yourself instead. Not because 100 baht more will break your budget, but because other price increases all together makes you cut back.

The time you spent on cleaning can't be spent on working, so you take money out of the economy or if you didn't work, you can't spend while you're cleaning. Plus the cleaning lady won't get any money. The net result is a negative on the economy.

Now with a minimum wage, some people are not going to be worth that minimum wage. It is that simple. If you can't earn back what you pay someone in wages of course you're not going to hire them.

Eventually the growing number of unemployed will lead to demands for more welfare and jobless payments. And then my friends, is the country on the downwards spiral into populist socialist dictatorship as we have it in Europe.

Unions are little more than mafia enterprises on labor these days. They made sense 100 years ago when security was absent in the workplace, but today, they're useless parasites on productive people.

Absolute rubbish. There is no proof that minimum wages causes unemployment. It will only cause inflation for the rich, who are overpaid anyways.

It's not rubbish, I and other people know of people here in Thailand who have lost their jobs due to the minimum wage. One girl was laid off in the cafe next door for exactly that reason, so keep your hair on, some of us are actually witnessing it.

If someone is unable to factor in a living wage for their staff, they've no business setting up a business. End of.

You're new to Asia, I can tell.

[i claudius]

Yes Chiang Mai

i love these guys who have never worked here or have family that run buisneses ,telling us about things they know little or nothing about

[Thai at Heart]

They legislate a minimum entry fee for farangs into Thailand so that we presumably can provide for ourselves. Logically, why can't that's legislate the same for themselves to take care of themselves too?

[theblether]

For those of you talking rubbish about the unemployed.

There is no unemployment in Thailand, everyone who wants to work can do so.

Unemployment only rises in countries that have a welfare state.

Garbage, I was talking to an unemployed lady this very day. What say you to that?

[MrRealDeal]

The unemployment rate may not be zero but he has a good point that it is close enough to zero to say it's not an issue of getting a job in Thailand that's a problem but perhaps only how much it pays and the conditions.

[farang000999]

I am sure that skyrocketing land and real estate prices have nothing to do with prices going up at the grocery store. It has nothing to do with global interest rates or the expansion of credite or years and years of American and Japanese quantitative easing (money printing).

It is all because of the increase in the minimum wage!

If simple Thai vendors selling clothing can make 30-40k a month why do you expect that prices will not rise?

Face it, the Thai economy is moving fast and you are being left behind in the dust.

[Scottythai]

It's nominal. I personaly hope wages do increase and things get a bit more expensive might drive away some of the people who just scrape by or some of the masses of lets take the family to holiday in Thailand groups. Maybe then Thailand can go back to being a bit more quiet and a bit more chill

I would prefer to see a retirement visa raised to 2 million bht and some sort of entry fee of 6000 bht or so

Could not agree more

You're the types I detest here on Phuket. Along with the Chang drinking wifebeater wearing mongers who would still find the money to come and litter the once pristine landscape with ever more beer bars and sod all else.

Detest? Why so I simpley think that people should be able to provide for them selves and not be a burden on an already burdeded place. Funny to think I am a whore monger and sit in beer bars. I enjoy my time in Thailand lots of fishing and riding my bike for most part. I have money because I work hard to keep make it and am able to live where i want. When I see westerners looking to work in Boiler rooms or begging on the street or trying to scam familys for money because their passport is lost kinda makes me wanna puke. So detest away I don't wheely care of you and your thoughts. What I do care is that people who come here can support themself and their lifestyle.

[nzvic]

Surprisingly all my favourite street vendors have kept same prices since I first came in 2009...also this internet cafe which is 20 baht for two hrs before 8a.m., Meat, fish, fruit and veg up/down depending on season, weather and supply e.g. carrots 28 baht compared with 18 though Chang's soda water was 40 baht for six compared with 28 just five mths ago.

[GuestHouse]

The unemployment rate may not be zero but he has a good point that it is close enough to zero to say it's not an issue of getting a job in Thailand that's a problem but perhaps only how much it pays and the conditions.

As matter of observation.

Whenever a nation's unemployment level falls below around 2% there arise problems of worker supply into industry and commerce.

[GuestHouse]

Here is the problem with minimum wage and unions.

MrHammer nails the problem in this discussion nicely.

We are not discussing unions, but MrHammer lumps Unions into the same box as minimum wages - anti welfare, anti socialism sentiments come up elsewhere in the thread (despite the Minimum Wage here in Thailand being enacted by a right wing government).

The problem with the discussion then is that the subject sits right there on the battle lines between left and right wing politics.

Reasoned arguments for the minimum wage will not be accepted by the strongly right wing members of TV, strongly Left Wing members will not accept reasoned arguments against the minimum wage.

So we are treated to hyperbole and because this is TV the usual smattering of personal insults/jibes.

[MrRealDeal]

What I sad was that as you move up the economic ladder out of skid row poor behavior and crime is reduced. More explicitly I mean per capita

I wouldn't say they are better people , just better behaved , the answer as to why is pretty simple , because they have more to lose by getting in trouble so they are more careful about how they behave in public.

Sorry that wasn't really an answer to what you asked , how much makes a person better depends on how much they have to lose by not behaving well , that depends on each person of course but people tend to become better behaved as they gain more to lose if they don't, until they have so much they don't care, which most of the times with most people is never.

So it's not really a number of how many millions it's a personal number that each individual doesn't want to lose , it could be a Macdonald's worker that gets a decent job who knows that now a drunk driving charge will get them fired that would not have before , they are not a better person but simply more careful about driving drunk because now they have more to lose.

Edited June 28, 2013 by MrRealDeal

[Donnie Brasco]

It's unintentional of course, but there's a lot of goodwill from TV members to everyday Thai people on this thread.

The pleasant, patient, docile nature of ordinary Thais has been hijacked and sold off as slave labor.

Taksin got his toe-hold and then his majority simply by agreeing that they have been exploited and demeaned for far too long.

Now they're being sold out to the World Bank.

New chains for old.

Even some occasional Thailand bashers are in genuine sympathy with their plight.

I'd like to count myself among them.

[jackinbkk]

Inflation is driven by the abundance of money. More people with more money will be willing to pay more for things and thus drive up prices.

[bangkokburning]

This is insane. Prices are up but its not due to scant few that recd a tiny increase in.wages and why would even the poorest among us not support it?

300 per day - ten hour day. B30 per hour

6000 per month - I recall my former landlord trying to.get maids to work for that in 2005 in Pattaya but she couldnt keep anyone.

This just forced the labor thieves to buck up.

Grinches

Edited June 28, 2013 by bangkokburning

[bangkokburning]

The classic definition of inflation is too many dollars chasing too few goods. Thailand has loads of goods and cheap as well. Prices are rising for a variety of reasons, none of which have to do with the "help" making an extra b50 a day <deleted>.

Low unemployment and depressed, stagnant wages. One third the nation.is foomed, another third is hopelessly over employed and another third underemployed

Its always the greedy, grubbing old people that horde everything and cant let go. Enough is never enough. Especially in Thailand. Its a real paradise for wealthy Thais. Mercedes, hookers, legal immunity - list is endless.

Edited June 28, 2013 by bangkokburning

[Regwatson]

This is insane. Prices are up but its not due to scant few that recd a tiny increase in.wages and why would even the poorest among us not support it?

300 per day - ten hour day. B30 per hour

6000 per month - I recall my former landlord trying to.get maids to work for that in 2005 in Pattaya but she couldnt keep anyone.

This just forced the labor thieves to buck up.

Grinches

Your calculation assumes minimum-wage workers get weekends off? You must be kidding, most lucky to get three days a month.

And since they're paid by the day not a monthly salary of course they'd rather get the money anyway. Usually no benefits like sick days much less paid holidays either.

Otherwise completely agree.

[theblether]

Is not insane......commanded increases always have unseen consequences. Political interference in the market without checks and balances always leaves things out of kilter, in fact politicians should learn to keep out altogether.

The political decision to release the money supply in the West to cover up for a lack of productivity brought short term political success and a long term calamity.

We borrowed trillions and exported it to the East, in exchange for cheap manufactured goods, then wondered what happened when the bubble burst. <deleted>

Wake up.

People build, politicians destroy.

Edited June 28, 2013 by theblether