Swedes sentenced to life in prison for Filipino cyber-brothel

[hellodolly]

I was in the Philippines when they were arrested. The papers were trumpeting this blow against "trafficking."

They did interviewed on of the "rescued" girls. She was upset that she would now have to go back to be a prostitute to feed her kids. In the cam house that was set up, she worked regular hours, had a clean place to work, did not have to worry about abusive customers, and did not have to worry about catching diseases.

Regardless of the legality in the Philippines, calling the place a "brothel" is really stretching the term. No actual sex takes place. Cam sex is more in line with an interactive movie, like watching 8 1/2 Weeks where you can direct the action.

And once again regardless of the legality, in a place where a convicted contract killer gets 10-15 years, a purveyor of interactive porn gets life?.

I was in the Philipinnes at that time too. If I remember correctly the Swedes provided the IT knowledge whilst the Pinays recruited the "models". There was no suggestion of underage girls or actual sexual services being sold, purely an adult webcam site.

At that time, this was big business in the Philipinnes with many Filipinos (male and female) setting up studios and linking into American and European websites. (A bit like an outsourced call centre). There were many complaints of scams - American guys in particular being duped into sending money after listening to sob stories or with promises to meet and holiday with them. Western Union even posted a warning on its website because so many people sent money, realised it was a scam and complained; and of course couldn't get the money back.

Many of the girls were recurited from the poor provinces, lowly educated and with children or family to support. There were reports that a lot of them were duped into believing they "would earn good salaries" and moved to take the work offer up. They only found out the nature of the work when they got there. By then, they'd borrowed money from their employer to finance travelling, set up accomodation etc. They had little option but to do the work. Quotas and other rules were often appied so the girls saw very little actual salary and had to borrow more. The debt grew and then they were leaveraged to work in the "bars" which their employer also just happened to own.

I believe the Philippine government outlawed adult web cams sometime last year. Any that continue would therefore be illegal.

It's difficult to know whether the Swedes' case started this investigation, or was caught up in it's early days. Certainly, some girls were exploited and some probably made money. High unemployment, poverty, high levels of corruption etc etc and this becomes a familiar tale. However, there is a degree of hypocracy when Angeles City, and other red light areas are allowed to flourish and the one particular operation feels the full wrath of the law.

Thanks for the information. I for one just assumed they had the sex industry the same as any other country. I did not realize that they were going digital with it and the Philippine government made it illegal.

I see their recruiting practices are the same as here in Thailand. Come to Bangkok or Pattaya and get a high wage you will be able to send money home to help your parents.probably be able to throw a few other cities into that melting pot.

[BeforeTigers]

Damn, and here I was about to travel to the Philippines.
Eff that Ess.

... then again, if I only visited countries with just legal systems that weren't run by complete retards I would end up spending all my time alone in a dingy in the middle of the pacific.

[tropo]

I was in the Philippines when they were arrested. The papers were trumpeting this blow against "trafficking."

They did interviewed on of the "rescued" girls. She was upset that she would now have to go back to be a prostitute to feed her kids. In the cam house that was set up, she worked regular hours, had a clean place to work, did not have to worry about abusive customers, and did not have to worry about catching diseases.

Regardless of the legality in the Philippines, calling the place a "brothel" is really stretching the term. No actual sex takes place. Cam sex is more in line with an interactive movie, like watching 8 1/2 Weeks where you can direct the action.

And once again regardless of the legality, in a place where a convicted contract killer gets 10-15 years, a purveyor of interactive porn gets life?.

There was one significant error in the OP.

This:

"This type of online sexual service is not illegal in the Philippines but when the police raided the cyber brothel, one of the women claimed that she was posing in front of the camera against her will."

Cybersex is indeed illegal in the Philippines, however it is a new law which came into effect last year. The penalties are extreme for "playing" sex online.

Edited July 1, 2013 by tropo

[marell]

Bad idea, guys. This had 'unhappy ending' writtten all over it from day one.

[Markaew]

I get the feeling that the AEC is going to operate the same way as this particular scenario along with other businesses. Inclusionary countries can do what they want but outsiders will be crucified.

Well, an expansion of the Thai doctrine.

[slipperylobster]

This may have something to do with International financial pressure that has also affected Thailand, as well as the Philippines. Toughening up on Human Trafficking gets big political points.....fair or not to the Swedes. They were foolish enough to get involved in a business that usually requires Police Protection. 30 years of history with being Stationed in the Philippines, as well as having family there leaves me much the wiser. I know of many who were jailed and released (huge payouts). These people would even have bargirls escorted into their cell to spend some time, bring pizza and beer and enjoy the television. They, however, were not convicted and never made international headlines. Typically, people with money in prison end up with"medical conditions"" which grant them stays at "hospitals" outside the prison. More than likely, they will slowly disappear from the limelight and will somehow find themselves back in Sweden...with nothing being reported in the papers. Personal experience (yes I was a bar mongering serviceman) tells me that its quite possible that the girl who claimed to be "forced" was probably offered a "job" to chat with foreigners. Possibly by a close relative that already worked for "Dumb and Dumber". Maybe her story is true/maybe not. I do not know. I do know that its not a game that young Western Males want to get into. Its true that historically, the U.S. Military was shipping young soldiers off to Pattaya and the Philippines for rest and relaxation. We kind of "made the beast" . When I was on R and R....it was all about the beer and the gals..... We lived for it. Judged by todays standards...we were supporting Human Trafficking....and what a money machine it was!

[joboss]

Do we, as foreigners, still think we are above the laws in the countries we visit? Whether or not these humans were liable under the law is irrelevant; one complaint, upheld clearly by the courts, has convicted them.

Yet again I must re-iterate: if you do not like the laws of a country, do not do anything which could lead to being convicted of breaking such a law, or simply stay away.

Operating a brothel, online or otherwise, should surely indicate that a disgruntled member of 'staff' might make claim against the owners. Were these gormless fools too stupid to see that?

They were convicted for making a woman pose in front of a camera against her will. Since posing in front of a camera in itself is not illegal, we can deduce that it is the "against her will" part that made the difference. In other words, this is not limited to brothels. Since there seems to be no evidence of her being forced, except for her word, anyone having a female (or male) visitor could potentially risk her going to the police when she leaves claiming you held her or made her do something against her will, and thereby send you to prison for life!

You could of course ask why any woman would do that? Extortion would be a good motive, revenge another!

It's possible,, but I think they were convicted as "trafficers" Powerfull laws in most countries by International agreement.

Perhaps, but how much sense does that make if the girls have never even left the Phillipines? :-)

My understanding is a charge of “trafficking persons” requires no evidence of sexual exploitation.

Get busted for trafficking and your the new example.

Research: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message943466/pg1

[Zumteufel]

I know these two guys personally. They're computer guys (programmer and graphical designer), not pimps nor human traffickers. They're victims of a political plot, with roots in a promise of financial support from the US to the Phillipines depending on the Phillipino Gvt. showing a "genuine" effort of dealing with their human rights problems. A bad case of being the wrong place at the wrong time. These guys has done nothing wrong. Them serving a lifetime has nothing to do with justice or moral, only politics.

[ppmacready]

One out of 20 was there against her own will?

That sounds odd, very odd. If they get 19 girls to work for them legally then it would be no problem to find one more to join the team legally.

My thought also. These guys are being railroaded by a government that wants to be seen as coming down on "human traffickers"; a so often misused and abused term. The "ONE" girl out of 20 is lying through her teeth. I hope she rots in h@#$ll for her lies. So she says nothing and they are free; lie and their lives are over. That sure sends a message...stay out of the Philippines.

I think the message is don't get involved in sleazy business in 3rd world countries.

[theajarn]

Those girls were getting paid BETTER than an "average" office job!! About P11,600 ?? When I was working there I got paid a shitty P15,000 a month! The locals got paid a maximum of P6,000!! If they were lucky they'd move up to P9,000!

Which is funny -- I almost got a job in the porn industry there... being offered P9,000 with 'benefits' and a 'significant raise' if I 'performed well' after the first 3 months. At the time I was young and nerdy -- and I thought it was "immoral". I politely declined.

People like me don't get second chances.

I wonder what the other girls think of the greedy b***h who ratted on them? Oh wait, nothing at all -- since they probably have a new owner, most probably a local politician, and even if they most likely get paid less than half of what they were making under the two Swedes, they better keep their mouths shut or else they'll be doing far worse things.

... against their will.

On the other hand... looking at the cool and calm nature of the Swedes' faces, one might think that they're not truly in prison. They just got a new office with no rent and taxes to pay?

Edited July 1, 2013 by theajarn

[culicine]

One out of 20 was there against her own will?

That sounds odd, very odd. If they get 19 girls to work for them legally then it would be no problem to find one more to join the team legally.

My thought also. These guys are being railroaded by a government that wants to be seen as coming down on "human traffickers"; a so often misused and abused term. The "ONE" girl out of 20 is lying through her teeth. I hope she rots in h@#$ll for her lies. So she says nothing and they are free; lie and their lives are over. That sure sends a message...stay out of the Philippines.

It goes some way to explain why the locals with any means at all, get the heck out of their own country....Only a low life scum would let these two rot in jail just to save face..

[Bagwan]

Free the Pinoy Porn Cam Two!

After filling the tank of your 'Humvee'? I'll settle for the free bottles of water.

[ukrules]

Hate to come to their defense, but this sort of business is perfectly legal in USA, and probably many other countries too. They were promoting safe sex, unless they loaded computer viruses.... seems the punishment is way off base and extreme. PI isn't exactly Saudi Arabia in general sex and entertainment.

This business is legal in the Phillipines as well. Aparrently one of them didn't want to do it. I wonder why she didn't just quit.

This is outrageous. I will never go to The Phillipines solely due to this.

I have an ever growing list of countries I will never visit.

[stoli]

Hate to come to their defense, but this sort of business is perfectly legal in USA, and probably many other countries too. They were promoting safe sex, unless they loaded computer viruses.... seems the punishment is way off base and extreme. PI isn't exactly Saudi Arabia in general sex and entertainment.

One correction. If she was "held against her will", which must have been the focus in the trial where they were convicted, then this certainly is not legal in the USA. Perfectly, or otherwise. Remember, there was a trial, and no one on this forum watched or participated in it. You have just read a little blip on this thread, and everyone is now an expert on the whole case. Amazing!

Edited July 1, 2013 by stoli

[Dap]

Hate to come to their defense, but this sort of business is perfectly legal in USA, and probably many other countries too. They were promoting safe sex, unless they loaded computer viruses.... seems the punishment is way off base and extreme. PI isn't exactly Saudi Arabia in general sex and entertainment.

This business is legal in the Phillipines as well. Aparrently one of them didn't want to do it. I wonder why she didn't just quit.

This is outrageous. I will never go to The Phillipines solely due to this.

I have an ever growing list of countries I will never visit.

Considering what goes on in Thailand ... is it on your list? Just curious

[slipperylobster]

One correction. If she was "held against her will", which must have been the focus in the trial where they were convicted, then this certainly is not legal in the USA. Perfectly, or otherwise. Remember, there was a trial, and no one on this forum watched or participated in it. You have just read a little blip on this thread, and everyone is now an expert on the whole case. Amazing!

Ahem..... Ah yes....the Philippine Justice System and their unshakeable faith in giving Fair Trial. I do not know whether to believe what I read about it...especially since most of the Honest Reporters that work independently have been put to eternal rest. The others are not prone to report in any other manner contrary to that of which their employers desire. I used to have a good laugh to see foreigners follow these stories so closely (in the Philippine Newspapers)...and quote what they read as solid fact !!! Buyer Beware............

[gaucho]

did you hear about the vegetarian cannibal ? he only ate swedes ..

[pedro01]

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

A couple of sexpats living off immoral earnings in a corrupt third world country.

I am not of the view that the services are necessarily bad in terms of the relationship between the girl and the viewer(s).

But when you stick a couple of pimps in the middle. Guys who are effectively taking advantage of the fact there's a lot of uneducated girls with very low earnings potential and making money off their sexual services - well - I'm all for very stiff sentences.

No different from all those guys in Pattaya getting a bar girl girlfriend, letting her prostitute herself out to westerners and living off the money. They are frowned upon by Thai sexpats but I have a feeling they will be a lot more forgiving of these two.

Are you insane?

"Immoral earnings"?

Don't get lost on your way to the temple buddy.

No--not the same as anything you described. They took hookers who were at risk of disease and who were selling their actual bodies, and gave them jobs sitting in front of a computer screen. Not a bad gig for a prostitute.

No, I am not insane but I am English.

The term "living off immoral earnings" is commonly used in English law. It refers to various activities pimping amongst them. It is a legal term.

You could take the view that these guys are knights in white shining armour but at the end of the day, they are just pimps. They didn't set these girls up for free did they?

A lower life form does not exist.

[pedro01]

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

A couple of sexpats living off immoral earnings in a corrupt third world country.

I am not of the view that the services are necessarily bad in terms of the relationship between the girl and the viewer(s).

But when you stick a couple of pimps in the middle. Guys who are effectively taking advantage of the fact there's a lot of uneducated girls with very low earnings potential and making money off their sexual services - well - I'm all for very stiff sentences.

No different from all those guys in Pattaya getting a bar girl girlfriend, letting her prostitute herself out to westerners and living off the money. They are frowned upon by Thai sexpats but I have a feeling they will be a lot more forgiving of these two.

So basically you see no problem convicting a thief for murder, seeing that both acts are illegal?

If you consider them pimps, which I suppose I more or less agree with, then charge them with pimping, which has nothing to do with human trafficing and/or slavery - the main difference being the "voluntary" part.

I think the sentences for pimps should be about the same as for rapists.

Life is appropriate for pimps in my opinion.

[pedro01]

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

A couple of sexpats living off immoral earnings in a corrupt third world country.

I am not of the view that the services are necessarily bad in terms of the relationship between the girl and the viewer(s).

But when you stick a couple of pimps in the middle. Guys who are effectively taking advantage of the fact there's a lot of uneducated girls with very low earnings potential and making money off their sexual services - well - I'm all for very stiff sentences.

No different from all those guys in Pattaya getting a bar girl girlfriend, letting her prostitute herself out to westerners and living off the money. They are frowned upon by Thai sexpats but I have a feeling they will be a lot more forgiving of these two.

Immoral ? Oh... these Christian people.

Everybody is "Taking Advantage" of everybody in all business, if you want to look at it like that. Employee - Employer relationships.

If you don't, then look at it like this. These guys where not taking advantage of anybody, in fact they provided these girls with better/easier means to survive. Their other option would be to actually provide "services" (read: do nasty shit, often) to sexually repressed nationalities, like yourself.

And even if it's illegal, immoral or whatever, the charges against them don't fit the 'crime'.

As I said "living off immoral earnings" is a legal term

The guys were idiots. At least this way they wont reproduce.

[pedro01]

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

A couple of sexpats living off immoral earnings in a corrupt third world country.

I am not of the view that the services are necessarily bad in terms of the relationship between the girl and the viewer(s).

But when you stick a couple of pimps in the middle. Guys who are effectively taking advantage of the fact there's a lot of uneducated girls with very low earnings potential and making money off their sexual services - well - I'm all for very stiff sentences.

No different from all those guys in Pattaya getting a bar girl girlfriend, letting her prostitute herself out to westerners and living off the money. They are frowned upon by Thai sexpats but I have a feeling they will be a lot more forgiving of these two.

Taken advantage of?? Sit there playing with themselves and get paid the same as an educated office worker? Who's taking advantage of who? Simply shocking you condone the sentence. 1 girl who CLAIMS to be there against her will (actually I'm surprised it wasn't more... Obviously this saves them face and even gains sympathy if they claim doing it 'against their will') puts 2 guys away who were otherwise doing what the article says was a legal business.

Even beyond the 'legal' aspect, this is a transaction between willing adult participants and it wasn't harming anyone. Disgustingly immoral to deny someone this right and Man, I'm glad you're not in some sort of position of authority.

If anything the girl who put in the false claim should be put away for a weekend or two for bullshitting.

Taking advantage of the situation the women are in. It's pretty simple.

These women are only degrading themselves because of the 3rd world dump they were unfortunate enough to grow up in.

Now - you can try the moral equivalence of saying "well - it's a less crappy situation than prostitution" - but would you want your daughter doing this? Do you not think the whole thing is degrading?

Of course it is & this is how the Swedes decided to make their money. Out of a bunch of women in a poor situation.

[pedro01]

"...one of the women claimed that she was posing in front of the camera against her will."

Such bullshit.

She was embarrassed and now two stupid (but ultimately pretty innocent) young men face a life in prison.

What a joke of a country.

Off my list too!

Actually, knowing the Philippines, she was more than likely told to spin this tale by the police.

I imagine the police had some $$$$ in mind for it.

[movsrus]

Not to justify what these guys did but in the PI a young girl from the province has little future. She may be molested by her family members or get pregnant by her "boyfriend" who will soon leave her with a babe in arms and little else. Her future is bleak and if she stays in her home village she will be destined for a life of poverty and being a baby factory. Many of these girls go to the larger cities in the PI and work the sex trade sending a large part of their earnings back to their family and knowing they can never go back to the village because they are branded as being a whore. It is a sad commentary on life in the PI but that is the way it is.

Going to a bigger city and being a sex worker at least gives her some money from which she can support her family and try to find a kano (foreigner) to latch onto. It is easy to condemn these women and to cast dispersions on the people who run these kinds of web sites but they do allow some PI women to at least get a chance to make something of their lives whereas living in the village will doom them to a life of poverty and a flock of kids.

Again, I don't support or visit these kinds of web sites but I do understand how some of these women may end up there trying to make a living and find a way out of a very bad situation. These Swedes probably got caught up in a situation where they didn't give the required "tea money" to the right people and now they are the fall guys.

It is a sad situation for all involved.

[pedro01]

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

A couple of sexpats living off immoral earnings in a corrupt third world country.

I am not of the view that the services are necessarily bad in terms of the relationship between the girl and the viewer(s).

But when you stick a couple of pimps in the middle. Guys who are effectively taking advantage of the fact there's a lot of uneducated girls with very low earnings potential and making money off their sexual services - well - I'm all for very stiff sentences.

No different from all those guys in Pattaya getting a bar girl girlfriend, letting her prostitute herself out to westerners and living off the money. They are frowned upon by Thai sexpats but I have a feeling they will be a lot more forgiving of these two.

It's not too different either from the wealthier of the world's population - including almost everyone on this forum - who take advantages of the low wages of third world workers to enjoy low-priced consumer goods... Just about everything around you was made by some pitifully paid worker... maybe we should all go to jail.

Of course it is different.

Let's say your daughter had a choice of 2 jobs...

1 - working in a factory assembling PCB cards

2 - playing with a dildo on a webcam for horny westerners

Would you commend her on taking the latter, higher paid job? Or on having the self-respect to take the first one?

[pedro01]

Not to justify what these guys did but in the PI a young girl from the province has little future. She may be molested by her family members or get pregnant by her "boyfriend" who will soon leave her with a babe in arms and little else. Her future is bleak and if she stays in her home village she will be destined for a life of poverty and being a baby factory. Many of these girls go to the larger cities in the PI and work the sex trade sending a large part of their earnings back to their family and knowing they can never go back to the village because they are branded as being a whore. It is a sad commentary on life in the PI but that is the way it is.

Going to a bigger city and being a sex worker at least gives her some money from which she can support her family and try to find a kano (foreigner) to latch onto. It is easy to condemn these women and to cast dispersions on the people who run these kinds of web sites but they do allow some PI women to at least get a chance to make something of their lives whereas living in the village will doom them to a life of poverty and a flock of kids.

Again, I don't support or visit these kinds of web sites but I do understand how some of these women may end up there trying to make a living and find a way out of a very bad situation. These Swedes probably got caught up in a situation where they didn't give the required "tea money" to the right people and now they are the fall guys.

It is a sad situation for all involved.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

But I think that no matter what situation these girls find themselves in, you have to be pure scum to take advantage of that.

[movsrus]

Not to justify what these guys did but in the PI a young girl from the province has little future. She may be molested by her family members or get pregnant by her "boyfriend" who will soon leave her with a babe in arms and little else. Her future is bleak and if she stays in her home village she will be destined for a life of poverty and being a baby factory. Many of these girls go to the larger cities in the PI and work the sex trade sending a large part of their earnings back to their family and knowing they can never go back to the village because they are branded as being a whore. It is a sad commentary on life in the PI but that is the way it is.

Going to a bigger city and being a sex worker at least gives her some money from which she can support her family and try to find a kano (foreigner) to latch onto. It is easy to condemn these women and to cast dispersions on the people who run these kinds of web sites but they do allow some PI women to at least get a chance to make something of their lives whereas living in the village will doom them to a life of poverty and a flock of kids.

Again, I don't support or visit these kinds of web sites but I do understand how some of these women may end up there trying to make a living and find a way out of a very bad situation. These Swedes probably got caught up in a situation where they didn't give the required "tea money" to the right people and now they are the fall guys.

It is a sad situation for all involved.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

But I think that no matter what situation these girls find themselves in, you have to be pure scum to take advantage of that.

I agree with you but life is not fair and to condemn these girls to a life of poverty is something I cannot do. If there is a better way for them to get out of the spiral of poverty, I don't know what it is. Again, I don't support what the Swedes have done but I understand why the girls may be doing this and for that they have my sincere sympathy.

[monkeycountry]

Looks like someone forgot to "grease the gear" in one of the corruptest and messed-up countries of SEA (not sayin that Thailand is very far off)... My guess is that some "official" liked the business idea and most likely he's running it now all by himself.

Don't really see where there is human trafficking involved and don't believe that any of the "office" girls were doing it against her will or kept as prisoner. Hope the guys get a good lawyer and a fair trial.

Sure there will be some do-gooders and perhaps some feminists logging in now to - in general - bash prostitution, porn and online "services" as oh so bad... I - on the other hand - would like to know how many rapes are prevented daily by offering a "valve" for some lone guys out there who might do something really stupid if such services were'nt offered. Ever thought about that?

Or another way to look at it is

I - on the other hand - would like to know how many rapes are caused daily by offering an "erotic stimulation" for some lone guys out there who might do something really stupid if such services are offered to set him off. Ever thought about that?

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

A couple of sexpats living off immoral earnings in a corrupt third world country.

I am not of the view that the services are necessarily bad in terms of the relationship between the girl and the viewer(s).

But when you stick a couple of pimps in the middle. Guys who are effectively taking advantage of the fact there's a lot of uneducated girls with very low earnings potential and making money off their sexual services - well - I'm all for very stiff sentences.

No different from all those guys in Pattaya getting a bar girl girlfriend, letting her prostitute herself out to westerners and living off the money. They are frowned upon by Thai sexpats but I have a feeling they will be a lot more forgiving of these two.

Are you insane?

"Immoral earnings"?

Don't get lost on your way to the temple buddy.

No--not the same as anything you described. They took hookers who were at risk of disease and who were selling their actual bodies, and gave them jobs sitting in front of a computer screen. Not a bad gig for a prostitute.

If kids under ten are watching it would you consider it Moral?

Don't sell kids short. They know there way around the cyber world and have friends who can provide them with credit cards.

What makes you think they are physical hookers?

Can you cut and paste that part I am not getting it on my screen.

My screen is a HP maybe that is why what kind of screen do you have.

"

bonobo, on 01 Jul 2013 - 16:44, said:

I was in the Philippines when they were arrested. The papers were trumpeting this blow against "trafficking."

They did interviewed on of the "rescued" girls. She was upset that she would now have to go back to be a prostitute to feed her kids. In the cam house that was set up, she worked regular hours, had a clean place to work, did not have to worry about abusive customers, and did not have to worry about catching diseases."

@Hellodolly: Are you getting it on your screen now?

Edited July 1, 2013 by monkeycountry

[mrdome]

Their only hope is to escape from that prison. Sounds like the authorities have decided to throw away the key. And I agree, the charges do not fit the crime.

[pedro01]

Not to justify what these guys did but in the PI a young girl from the province has little future. She may be molested by her family members or get pregnant by her "boyfriend" who will soon leave her with a babe in arms and little else. Her future is bleak and if she stays in her home village she will be destined for a life of poverty and being a baby factory. Many of these girls go to the larger cities in the PI and work the sex trade sending a large part of their earnings back to their family and knowing they can never go back to the village because they are branded as being a whore. It is a sad commentary on life in the PI but that is the way it is.

Going to a bigger city and being a sex worker at least gives her some money from which she can support her family and try to find a kano (foreigner) to latch onto. It is easy to condemn these women and to cast dispersions on the people who run these kinds of web sites but they do allow some PI women to at least get a chance to make something of their lives whereas living in the village will doom them to a life of poverty and a flock of kids.

Again, I don't support or visit these kinds of web sites but I do understand how some of these women may end up there trying to make a living and find a way out of a very bad situation. These Swedes probably got caught up in a situation where they didn't give the required "tea money" to the right people and now they are the fall guys.

It is a sad situation for all involved.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

But I think that no matter what situation these girls find themselves in, you have to be pure scum to take advantage of that.

I agree with you but life is not fair and to condemn these girls to a life of poverty is something I cannot do. If there is a better way for them to get out of the spiral of poverty, I don't know what it is. Again, I don't support what the Swedes have done but I understand why the girls may be doing this and for that they have my sincere sympathy.

The Swedes made a decision to profit from the girls situation. The Swedes were not interested in the spiral of poverty but in lining their own pockets.

[manarak]

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

A couple of sexpats living off immoral earnings in a corrupt third world country.

I am not of the view that the services are necessarily bad in terms of the relationship between the girl and the viewer(s).

But when you stick a couple of pimps in the middle. Guys who are effectively taking advantage of the fact there's a lot of uneducated girls with very low earnings potential and making money off their sexual services - well - I'm all for very stiff sentences.

No different from all those guys in Pattaya getting a bar girl girlfriend, letting her prostitute herself out to westerners and living off the money. They are frowned upon by Thai sexpats but I have a feeling they will be a lot more forgiving of these two.

Taken advantage of?? Sit there playing with themselves and get paid the same as an educated office worker? Who's taking advantage of who? Simply shocking you condone the sentence. 1 girl who CLAIMS to be there against her will (actually I'm surprised it wasn't more... Obviously this saves them face and even gains sympathy if they claim doing it 'against their will') puts 2 guys away who were otherwise doing what the article says was a legal business.

Even beyond the 'legal' aspect, this is a transaction between willing adult participants and it wasn't harming anyone. Disgustingly immoral to deny someone this right and Man, I'm glad you're not in some sort of position of authority.

If anything the girl who put in the false claim should be put away for a weekend or two for bullshitting.

Taking advantage of the situation the women are in. It's pretty simple.

These women are only degrading themselves because of the 3rd world dump they were unfortunate enough to grow up in.

Now - you can try the moral equivalence of saying "well - it's a less crappy situation than prostitution" - but would you want your daughter doing this? Do you not think the whole thing is degrading?

Of course it is & this is how the Swedes decided to make their money. Out of a bunch of women in a poor situation.

Pedro, offering any work is taking advantage of the situation that the employees need the income to live.

I do not think that prostitution or porn or sex performances are necessarily immoral or necessarily taking advantage of anybody.

You take the stance that porn is morally bad. Your choice. Not mine.