Ladyboys

[krisb]

70 million living in a small country. It just seems like there's lots.

Simples.

[MrWorldwide]

70 million ladyboys ? Man, I'd call that 'lots' !

OK - seriously - the other aspect of the 'phenomenon' is that the ladyboys who work the Farang nightlife scene go out of their way to be a lot more visible than the Katoey sales assistant at Robinson. The former know that some customers want ladyboys over the thousands of women who were born with proper lady parts - nothing like a competitive edge, I guess. One of the bar owners on Soi 22 told me that the only problem he had with a Farang competitor was courtesy of the guy's conniving Katoey wife : seems they do 'nagging bitch' as well as any real woman. Must be the hormones.

[JemJem]

I think it's more due to cultural/social factors than genetics, that there are more ladyboys in Thailand, than, say, in Europe.

Edited August 11, 2013 by JemJem

[IrishIvan]

Ladyboys (men with gender identity issues) are not the same thing as homosexuals.

Sexual scholars generally agree there is a constant worldwide of about FOUR PERCENT of males being homosexual pretty much everywhere.

As far as ladyboys (trangender issues) yes I think there is something real to the observation that Thailand probably has the highest incidence of this anywhere in the world. It's a valid question and worthy of further study. 

l have read Brazil is higher

[DavidBonnie]

beautifulthailand and others . . . in my opinion the external link (Thaimassage) is nonsense. It's just not logical to imagine that a boy from a poor family would decide to become a ladyboy. He would have to be gay first.

If you do watch the new series of 'Ladyboys' you will see me (David) and Annie my ladyboy girlfriend. She, nor do I believe any other ladyboy, simply decided to be such when they were young.

All the ladyboys I have spoken with all knew they were ladyboys/gay when they were young. I am certain sexual orientation is not a choice anymore than it's a choice to be heterosexual.

Most are scared of the reaction they will get from family and society at large as it seems that only in the last decade has public opinion become more tolerant. I have noticed a change in the few years I have known Annie.

I have asked the question of many ladyboys; 'why didn't you just stay a gay man?' They are all adamant that they wanted to be beautiful and strove to dress as girls even before they were teenagers. Annie used to put on a dress whenever her father went away to work and wear trousers when he was home.

Interestingly, ladyboys extend that term to include those whom we in the west may judge to be camp gay men whether or not they have long hair and boobs.

It is a hard road that they choose, not an easy path and it's difficult to find jobs etc.

I can vouch for some of the reactions that ladyboys inspire in others . . . . I even had a contract rescinded because I had a ladyboy girlfriend . . . that's not a euphemism.

Of course, there are many reasons why ladyboys are so common here in LOS ; Cultural tenets that avoid confrontation, Buddhism and an openess about sexuality that does not exist in the west.

[Phronesis]

To be frank, now that I am getting a little older, one of the great pleasures I derive from being with my younger Thai girl friend is breathing in her intoxicating scent.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Pheromones...

The sex is wonderful, but I especially like spooning with her, so that I can nuzzle into the nape of her neck...and...well...smell her.

I have never been with a ladyboy, or even within hugging distance of one. But as the popularity of recent ladyboy related threads here on TV have shown...many TV members have.

So tell me...

When you are up close and personal with a ladyboy...does (s)he smell like a lovely young lady...or does (s)he smell like a prop forward who has just jogged into the locker room after a match against the all backs?

[cardholder]

To be frank, now that I am getting a little older, one of the great pleasures I derive from being with my younger Thai girl friend is breathing in her intoxicating scent.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Pheromones...

The sex is wonderful, but I especially like spooning with her, so that I can nuzzle into the nape of her neck...and...well...smell her.

I have never been with a ladyboy, or even within hugging distance of one. But as the popularity of recent ladyboy related threads here on TV have shown...many TV members have.

So tell me...

When you are up close and personal with a ladyboy...does (s)he smell like a lovely young lady...or does (s)he smell like a prop forward who has just jogged into the locker room after a match against the all backs?

... and this from a man with a carrot phobia

Take your pick carotenes or pheromones................

[somtampet]

For simplistic purposes, lets call the ladyboys "transvestites".

In Europe, United States or Australia for example, I don't think transvestites would be able to walk random streets with safety. They would get verbal and physical abuse on a very large scale.

In Arab states, Muslim states, and the Africas, this behaviour would certainly not be tolerated.

Whereas, in our beloved Thailand, where anything and everything "goes", these ladyboys can mince about to their hearts content without the fear they might have in other countries.

I also see much crime associated with ladyboys.

Tell a ladyboy,he is a trannie,then move back quick

[FarangTalk]

1 There are a lot of Thai Boys small in stature and thus effeminate.

2 Cosmetic Surgery is cheap here and many experienced surgeons.

3 There is a demand for them in the bars.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Aha so you go for the theory that thai guys do this stuff to act homosexuals voluntarely just because that

they can make money on it????

 

They go with homosexual men/clients and not themselfs being homosexuals....???? Or do you hink that they really become homosexuals just because there is a demand for it...... seriously???

 

Glegolo

In Thailand I would pick money as the motivating factor every time.

Another reason for the amount of ladyboys is the sexual abuse effeminate males face when growing up. Particularly in rural areas. This is documented in Thai literature; Pira Sudham being one such example written in English.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jingthing]

Many non-gay young men engage in "gay for pay" activities pretty much all over the world. Google "gay for pay" if you dare; believe me, it's a THING. Talking here about male to male stuff; NOTHING to do with ladyboys. That's something else as ladyboys primarily attract heterosexual type men, not gay men. Gay men overwhelmingly prefer MALES who present as MALES, not ladies of any kind. Do some ladyboys present as ladyboys only for commercial reasons? Probably. It's hard to know what percentage. Again ... duh ... gender identity is not the same thing as sexual orientation.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[sustento]

It sure does have a lot as well - some say upto half a million in the LOS and two in my families networks.

The article on the link as to why Thailand has so many ladyboys basically says because of the rigid class system - lower class gays don't want to work on manual labour and see being a ladyboy identity as a way out. Now it has become a self-fufilling prophesy as they are now so many.

That link is a pure piece of internet marketing and was written with the sole purpose of getting the website into Google rankings.

[Phronesis]

Many non-gay young men engage in "gay for pay" activities pretty much all over the world. Google "gay for pay" if you dare; believe me, it's a THING. Talking here about male to male stuff; NOTHING to do with ladyboys. That's something else as ladyboys primarily attract heterosexual type men, not gay men. Gay men overwhelmingly prefer MALES who present as MALES, not ladies of any kind. Do some ladyboys present as ladyboys only for commercial reasons? Probably. It's hard to know what percentage. Again ... duh ... gender identity is not the same thing as sexual orientation.

JT...I would hazard a guess that a lot tread the LB path for commercial reasons. Hell who wouldn't want the glamorous lifestyle offered in the bars....over say working in a tin shed on Honda waves....

[Jingthing]

It's just hard to know what percentage.

For those that even go so far as getting fake breasts and taking lots of hormones, that's a big commitment to that choice. Of course MOST don't get the big cut, but frankly it's hard to imagine anyone getting the cut being only in it for the money.

For a young man to try traditional male to male gay for pay, no surgery, no hormones, just an open mind, etc. You can do it for a few months or years and move on without much investment, and then go back to the farm and marry the girl next year and have lots of kids.

Personally my opinion is that the vast majority of ladyboys who go so far as breast work and hormone treatments REALLY DO have some level of gender identification as women. People are complex. MULTIPLE things can be going on at the same time.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[Phronesis]

but frankly it's hard to imagine anyone getting the cut being only in it for the money.

JT...your last statement is rather naive....Look at what some of those poor Isaan girls put up with...years of being used as a sexual spittoon by some fat stinking tattooed farang all for a million baht house in Nakon Nowhere.

Money is god here.

As for the snip or not snip decision...I think that it arrives more incrementally. Kind of like a decision made to expand or add more capital to a new business. Let me explain...the young lad sees some of his bar girl friends (who don't nearly have as good a figure as his own)living he life of Reilly. New phones and clothes, money to burn...and eating out at all the restaurants.

He make a decision to do his hair, buy a padded bra...and have trial run at a lady boy bar. His is well received by the patrons...makes some quick money and thinks...I am on to something here. The first outlay is for the hormones...then the plastic surgery...and if the money really starts to roll in...or he meets a sponsor willing to pay for the surgery...the snip decision may then raise its ugly....errrrrrrrrr...vulva...

Edited August 12, 2013 by Phronesis

[Jingthing]

Very uninformed. Insiders know those who cut also deeply cut their EARNING potential.

I think this is outrageous. Do you have any idea how serious it is to do the cut? It is not something anyone takes lightly.

[Phronesis]

Very uninformed. Insiders know those who cut also deeply cut their EARNING potential.

I think this is outrageous. Do you have any idea how serious it is to do the cut? It is not something anyone takes lightly.

Happy to be corrected JT. I am just speculating as I have never been inside a lady boy.

[Jingthing]

Very uninformed. Insiders know those who cut also deeply cut their EARNING potential.

I think this is outrageous. Do you have any idea how serious it is to do the cut? It is not something anyone takes lightly.

Happy to be corrected JT. I am just speculating as I have never been inside a lady boy.

Me either. I am just better informed. It's not that hard.

[Phronesis]

Very uninformed. Insiders know those who cut also deeply cut their EARNING potential.

I think this is outrageous. Do you have any idea how serious it is to do the cut? It is not something anyone takes lightly.

Happy to be corrected JT. I am just speculating as I have never been inside a lady boy.

It's not that hard.

No...it wouldn't be after the hormone therapy.

[Lancelot]

Many Thai doctors claim that a lot of Thai men have too many female hormones. However, I am not sure if that is a valid scientific fact.

Maybe, but when I'm driving my motorbike, testosterone seems alive and well (from the Thai male drivers...)

[DavidBonnie]

Phronesis, ladyboys don't become ladyboys for commercial purposes . . . . at least not many . . . think about it . . they are small children when they become ladyboys and they do it for themselves . . not for a job in a bar . . do you really think they dream about that at age 8?

Having the chop for commercial reasons also . . .not likely . . . be realistic. It may be incrememntal in that they meet a farang man who wants them to have it . . . . but if anything having the chop reduces a prostitutes earning potential. Sex tourists can go screw a smelly old real fanny they do not want a fake one.

Yes a ladyboy smells, feels, looks and behaves like a woman (not talking about some of the ugly ladyboy prostitutes you have all seen around) except she is better . . at sex, at doing stuff, at having fun than a woman. Most Thai girls are just so . . . limp and bloody feeble it's a nice change to have a superwoman around ha ha!

[Tonto21]

Lady-boys don't have to do national service.

I think they have to turn up for the 'lotto' draft. It is at the discretion of the recruting team to issue a number for the 'lotto' or not.

LB's are, under Thai law...male, they are unable to change there gender in there passport or other official documents, but as we know all is possible if you have contacts and money!

Sorry I did have a great photo of an LB in a Thai 'lotto' draft line up with other Thai males, 'she' in a short dress, high heals, hair/make-up and big rack! ha ha for a LB she looked pretty hot................If I can find I'll post.

Tonto

[MrWorldwide]

Phronesis, ladyboys don't become ladyboys for commercial purposes . . . . at least not many . . . think about it . . they are small children when they become ladyboys and they do it for themselves . . not for a job in a bar . . do you really think they dream about that at age 8?

Having the chop for commercial reasons also . . .not likely . . . be realistic. It may be incrememntal in that they meet a farang man who wants them to have it . . . . but if anything having the chop reduces a prostitutes earning potential. Sex tourists can go screw a smelly old real fanny they do not want a fake one.

Yes a ladyboy smells, feels, looks and behaves like a woman (not talking about some of the ugly ladyboy prostitutes you have all seen around) except she is better . . at sex, at doing stuff, at having fun than a woman. Most Thai girls are just so . . . limp and bloody feeble it's a nice change to have a superwoman around ha ha!

David, both of you come across as very genuine on the 'Ladyboy' series, but surely even you would admit that the Soi 4 katoeys give their 'sisters' a bad name. I see them as basically falling into one of two groups - the more feminine ladyboys who are happy to blend in with the girls and the 'serious bitch' brigade strutting up and down the Soi like some kind of sad caricature of a woman. I'm told that this group has some particularly choice terms for their female competition and I expect they dont have a particularly high opinion of their customers either - what stuns me is that they still seem to get customers, Horses for courses, I guess, but I have a simple rule - if its too tall / white /self-consciously 'feminine', I smile and keep walking,

(I know the 'limp and feeble' comment was made in jest - the only working girl I've ever been with who fit that description was Vietnamese - mega starfish and an experience best forgotten.)