Us Tourist Visa For Wife Refused

[stevehaigh]

my wife was refused a tourist visa last week.

we prepared well. i made a 1 page list of bullet points with photos showing money in bank ($600,000 US), land (3 rai) and house in thailand, tabien baan and 2 kids staying in thailand, my profitable thai business, work permit and 1 year visa and a bank book for a joint accout i opened with the wife 2 years ago.

the emabssy guy read over the info page carefully and looked at my passport carefully to see i hadn't been to the US for 2 years. he actually admitted that i plan to return to thailand but did not give a visa to the wife. he didn't give a reason but i think it's because we've only been married 3 weeks. he mensioned that a few times. i kept showing him the bank book and photos showing we have lived together for 2 years but he wasn't impressed.

he told me to apply for an imigration visa. i told him we didn't want one for a 4 week holiday then i told him to go f himself and prompt left!

oh well

[Ken]

Sounds like for the "interview" you had the same guy my wife had a few weeks ago. And we have been married over two years and I'm on my third "thai wife extension" in Thailand. It's crazy and surely unfair (my wife's words).

Not sure if it was wise to tell the guy to "f himself", but I definitely know how you felt/feel and I wanted to do the same. It seems to me to be an extremely sad state of affairs that a man cannot take his Thai wife to the US for a holiday and family visit. And really not much recourse. I did just write my Senator, but I doubt much can/will be done. Oh well.

[thaihome]

To be honest, I am amazed at these 2 stories as I know many people with Thai wives working and living in Thailand that have no problem getting US tourist visas (including myself).

As the Consulate web site suggests, I would reapply immediately. You should review your documents to ensure that the fact the trip is a holiday and not attempt to circumvent the immigration visa process is highlighted.

TH

[stevehaigh]

To be honest, I am amazed at these 2 stories as I know many people with Thai wives working and living in Thailand that have no problem getting US tourist visas (including myself).

As the Consulate web site suggests, I would reapply immediately. You should review your documents to ensure that the fact the trip is a holiday and not attempt to circumvent the immigration visa process is highlighted.

TH

how long ago did you get it? i have heard it's become a lot harder recently. as i said in my OP, the interviewer addmitted i had roots in thailand and planned to return. i think their fear is i will drop the wife off in the us and leave her there. she's pissed off now anyhow and doesn't want to go, don't blame her, the us sucks.

[jing jing]

Very interesting. My wife (we're not legally married, i.e. not registered) just got a tourist visa a couple of months ago with a very cursory interview. I was present at the interview and gave some documentation of my financial status, but not nearly the amount of supporting evidence of "intent to return to Thailand" that you provided. Our circumstances are much different than yours so I'm not sure it's fair to compare situations.

Our history, for what it's worth, is this: at the end of 2004 we applied for a tourist visa and were refused, as expected. I hadn't yet moved to Thailand as a primary place of residence, we weren't married, and we had no kids at that time. The consular officer said there was no evidence that she didn't intend to immigrate and suggested we apply for a fiancee visa, which we did, in January of 2005. In February we found out that she was pregnant. In less than 4 months she got the fiancee visa, in April I went back to Thailand to get married in her village, then we travelled together to the US and stayed for 90 days but didn't get married there. She returned to Thailand in August (7 months pregnant by then) while I stayed behind to wrap up the sale of my house. In September of 2005 I moved to Thailand and in October our son was born. In January of 2006 we applied for another tourist visa so that she and the baby could come visit my family in the States, and as I mentioned above, the visa was granted.

I did write a two page cover letter outlining our history, and concluded it with a somewhat emotional plea to allow her and our baby boy to travel with me to visit my old and not-so-healthy father before it was too late. Maybe the fact that she had already been in the USA with a fiancee visa and we had opted not to stay there even though we had a perfectly legal opportunity to do so made the consular officer tend to believe that we didn't plan to stay there this time either, especially since I had already sold my house.

Who knows what goes through their minds, and since it's impossible to prove a negative (i. e. that your wife DOESN'T plan to immigrate) anyway, the only thing you can do is present the most convincing evidence you have to that effect. From the information you shared here, frankly I'm shocked that she didn't get the visa.

[lopburi3]

Maybe the fact that she had already been in the USA with a fiancee visa and we had opted not to stay there even though we had a perfectly legal opportunity to do so

Absolutely. She had already been through the vetting process.

[thaihome]

To be honest, I am amazed at these 2 stories as I know many people with Thai wives working and living in Thailand that have no problem getting US tourist visas (including myself).

As the Consulate web site suggests, I would reapply immediately. You should review your documents to ensure that the fact the trip is a holiday and not attempt to circumvent the immigration visa process is highlighted.

TH

how long ago did you get it? i have heard it's become a lot harder recently. as i said in my OP, the interviewer addmitted i had roots in thailand and planned to return. i think their fear is i will drop the wife off in the us and leave her there. she's pissed off now anyhow and doesn't want to go, don't blame her, the us sucks.

My wife's visa was obtained a couple of years ago and actually not even issued in Thailand, but like I said, showing your ties, along with proof of relationship, ie, marriage certificate, it should be no problem. May not be possible in your case since you say you are self-employed, but everyone I know uses a letter from company explaining we are entitled to a yearly homeleave. It does seem that the Bangkok Consulate can be difficult at times, a much different attitude then say the Beijing Consulate where they actually set aside 4 hours each week for US citizens to go and talk to consular officer about visas.

I hope you don't get offended but your attitude to the interviewing consular officer sounds like it may have been a problem. In my dealings with them I have to force myself to look at it from their perspective and try to act accordingly.

TH

[guyinthailand]

If I were a consular officer at the embassy there is no way I would give a tourist visa to someone who ‘just’ got married three weeks ago! A huge red flag! And the flag says: ‘Warning! Warning! Thai/Farang couple who want to circumvent the waiting period for fiancé/marriage visa!’ Three weeks?! And just why, all of a sudden, three weeks after getting married (was it a registered marriage?) are they standing in front of me wanting a tourist visa to go the U.S? It is easy to manufacture ‘proof’ of the length of time you’ve been together in a committed relationship—having a joint bank account is only proof of a joint bank account, nothing more, absent other evidence-- but having a registered marriage is guaranteed proof of the length of your relationship. The people who have jobs in the embassy don’t get to keep their jobs if they hand out visas to Thais who ‘run away’ once they get to the states, especially if there is even a HINT she may have been a bargirl and will engage in prostitution in the States.

Both of you guys are omitting the background and appearance of your girlfriends/wives. I suspect the Thai woman who actually obtained the tourist visa is university educated, speaks English well and is highly ‘presentable.’ And I suspect the one who was denied may have a different ‘appearance’ and background and not speak English well, which could have been interpreted by the consular officer to be signs of frowned-upon activities (which are grounds for denying visas.).

But even more important than that is you’ve got to think about it from the perspective of the consular officer. They are required by law to assume the Thai person is intending to immigrate to the U.S. The burden of proof is on the Thai person to prove otherwise, to prove they will return to Thailand.

The guy (jing jing) who got the tourist visa for his ‘wife’ had already been to the U.S. with her on fiancée visa AND she had returned to Thailand (!), AND he is the real father of her baby and she is (I’m presuming here) university educated, middle-class appearing, and speaks English well. The consular officer who granted the tourist visa could be reasonably sure she would return to Thailand. Also, what else did her passport show? Had she previously been to, for example, Europe and then returned to Thailand? If so, this is additional ‘proof’ to the consular officer that it is a good bet she will return to Thailand, which is of overriding importance in their minds.

As far as the couple who were denied the tourist visa, a three week marriage—even if registered—is more of a red flag than anything else.

[Ken]

If I were a consular officer at the embassy there is no way I would give a tourist visa to someone who ‘just’ got married three weeks ago! A huge red flag! And the flag says: ‘Warning! Warning! Thai/Farang couple who want to circumvent the waiting period for fiancé/marriage visa!’ Three weeks?!..... HINT she may have been a bargirl and will engage in prostitution in the States.

Both of you guys are omitting the background and appearance of your girlfriends/wives. I suspect the Thai woman who actually obtained the tourist visa is university educated, speaks English well and is highly ‘presentable.’ And I suspect the one who was denied may have a different ‘appearance’ and background and not speak English well, which could have been interpreted by the consular officer to be signs of frowned-upon activities (which are grounds for denying visas.).

But even more important than that is you’ve got to think about it from the perspective of the consular officer. They are required by law to assume the Thai person is intending to immigrate to the U.S. The burden of proof is on the Thai person to prove otherwise, to prove they will return to Thailand................................

Edit: I'm responding because you chose to use the words "Both of you guys".

For your first post on ThaiVisa you talk like the guy who did the interview for my wife. Are you the same guy? So happy that you believe you are keeping the gates of America safe from my Thai wife. Got to say your post really wasn't polite or nice and so now neither is mine. And you seem to be saying that only a University educated lady should get a visa. My wife would say that really isn't fair.

If you care to read more about my specific visa problem you can check HERE

Oh and if you really care to know (you asked), she was dressed very conservative and proper like she is always..

Edited April 9, 2006 by Ken

[sun_sailor]

here is a story I know...

My American friend who lives in phuket applied to take his BG girlfriend

to the US on a tourist visa, I laughed at the possibility of success...

at the interview, he politely said he has a mail order internet computer business,

and she helped him, and they just wanted to go to the las vegas on a vacation...

They asked her 1. what is the company? she said "I dont know, something electric"

and 2. where are you going , San Francisco, her reply..... Bangkok interviewer's reply.....

visa granted....no joke.

[guyinthailand]

Ken,

I never said or implied I was “keeping the gates of America safe from (your) Thai wife.” Or that “only a university educated lady should get a tourist visa.” I said IF I worked at the embassy (I don’t) I would not grant a wife a tourist visa after only being married for three weeks (even if it is indeed a registered’ marriage, and not just ‘Thai married’.) I also said “if there is even a HINT she may have been a bargirl and will engage in prostitution in the States” then your chances of getting any visa are seriously reduced. The embassy personnel have very good b.s. detectors and must rely on those detectors to do their job which includes ‘sizing people up’. I never said I thought the embassy rules were fair, or right, or proper. (I happen to think some of the U.S. immigration rules are unconstitutionally restrictive.)

If you want to get visas it helps to try to see things from the perspective of embassy personnel. Remember, they are required by law to assume your girlfriend/wife intends to immigrate. They don’t have to prove she will immigrate. It is up to you to ‘prove’ she won’t.

If you are really married (registered marriage) to her for only a short time then get a marriage visa. Applying for a marriage visa as a long-term expat gives you some priority over others who are not long-term expats who are applying for fiancée and marriage visas. And if you’ve been registered married for a long time and are on long-term visa stay here--not just doing visa runs to the border and with many and/or long trips back to the States—your proven long-term expat status coupled with a long-term registered marriage may get your wife a tourist visa, because it will make it easier for the embassy personnel to believe YOU (and therefore her) have ties to Thailand and therefore that she will return to Thailand (because you will return to Thailand).

Note this excerpt from a previous post from a married guy who did get a tourist visa for his wife:

“The interviewer ignored most of it, the only things he really wanted to see were our marriage certificate (both the original and the English translation), her bank book and our passports. We had been married for over a year before making the trip and I think that had a lot to do with our getting approved.” (post #7 from “otherstuff1957”)

[ThaiPauly]

It certainly helps if a girl can prove she has rightful employment in LOS.

A letter from her employers accompanied with a bank book showing regular payments for a period of at least 6 months can make a vast difference.

As mentioned appearance is very important. If there is a hint of a tatoo poking out anywhere..that will count greatley against her application as they will assume she is or was a B/G

[jing jing]

This topic is definitely one that brings out strong feelings, usually negative, about the American immigration system and the rights of we U.S. citizens to bring our significant others back home for a visit.

A couple of years ago, before I ever attempted to get a tourist visa for my then-girlfriend, on the advice of a friend I consulted with an attorney who specializes in U.S. visa and immigration issues. He told me point blank that unless my girlfriend owned property in Bangkok, had a university education, AND (not OR) had a good job (i.e. management level) that she'd held for several years, the chances that she'd be granted a tourist visa were slim and none. Of course at that time I hadn't yet moved to Thailand myself but, truth be known, that is not a deciding factor one way or the other. He told me that every now and then "lightning might strike," so if I could afford the $100 application fee it could be worth taking a flyer and hoping to be that 1 in 1000, or whatever the number may be, and basically expect the worst. Sure enough, we were refused that first time around despite my GF's uni education, a prior trip to the UK, and her conservative light skinned non-tattooed appearance. Bottom line was, she didn't own property in Bangkok or have a high net worth, and she didn't have a "corporate" job waiting for her to return to.

The good news is, if you are really serious about bringing your GF or wife back to the States for whatever reason, you can do it -- with an immigrant visa. I heard horror stories about the couples who waited a year or more to get their visas, and maybe we were just lucky, but as I said in my previous post she got her K-1 in less than 4 months from the date of application.

Once you've got the K-1 or K-3, the anecdotal evidence tends to suggest that even if you don't choose to remain in the U.S., your Thai lady's chance of getting a tourist visa will be much better in the future. Maybe it's not fair that we have to go through such chicanery for a brief visit with friends and relatives, but unfortunately that's the system as it exists today and there's really not much choice but to work with it, or end up working yourself into a homicidal rage .

[Ken]

Indeed jing jing, the American Immigration system reeks of negative feelings. One of the problems as I see it, is that the "illegal Mexican" thing in the US has spoiled it for everyone else, even for an American Citizen who wants to bring his foreign wife for a holiday visit.

Indeed if I still worked in the US and wasn't retired, I would go the "immigration" route as opposed to the Visitor Visa. But now that I am retired, other than money (bank accounts, etc) I have no assets in the US (no property/house). As it turns out this would probably exclude me from being able to get an immigrant visa for my wife and we don't want to immigrate there anyway. So my options are to go back to the US, buy a house and then apply for an immigrant visa...... Well not an option for me. So it looks like the only option for me is to live with it, as it is the way it is. Yea, I'll try and put together a "better" package this year with my wife and her beauty salon business, and try for a visitors visa again next year. We only want to go for 2 or 3 weeks. She has been in the beauty salon business for 18 years but her book keeping is/has been a "joke". I think I will also be making an application for "permanent resident" next year as I will have completed the 3 year extension "rule". Maybe that will help, maybe not. We shall see. And in the meantime I'm going to continue to enjoy my retirement in Thailand.

[thaihome]

Maybe the way to explain this is to break it down it a couple of scenarios:

Registered wife in Thailand, husband legally working in Thailand

This one should be easy. Tie between husband and wife established, key fact to establish is husband’s tie to Thailand. Work Permit, visa extension, letter from employer, joint bank account, etc would be good documentation

Registered wife in Thailand, husband working in US

This one is very hard, consulate will assume you are trying to get around immigration visa requirements which would be pretty much impossible to disprove.

GF in Thailand, BF, legally working in Thailand

Pretty much the same as first scenario, just harder to prove relationship.

GF in Thailand, BF in US

Same as second scenario. Best route is having GF establish her ties to Thailand and not mention BF at all.

It still all comes down to trying to put yourself in consular officer’s perspective who assumes you are trying to get into US and stay. Form some very recent reports (like last week) there appears to be at least one person at Consulate that does not understand long term expats with no ties to US trying to visit the US with significant other. One friend, who has lived overseas for 15 years (Asia and Europe) and has no intention of returning to live, whose wife’s previous 10 year visa expired was asked during interview why they were not applying for immigration visa.

TH