Thai Energy minister to outline plan for rooftop solar panels

[OzMick]

I've just purchased 50 x 100w panels from China (115,000Bht inc taxes delivered to Bangkok), on an overcast day they produce 10% (500w), if very dark and rainy 5% .... panells in UK are same as panels here and will work fine anywhere, used here the higher temperatures will give slight loss in efficency but more than made up for by increase in power due to 'stronger' sunlight

I'm assuming you have an output meter - do you ever achieve the rated output of 5kW?

After inverter losses 4.4kw at best : adverage daily output (in rain and sun) about 10 kwHrs (units) x 6.5Bht= 65Bht/day =23,725Bht/year . including cost of inverter and wires, total cost of system about 150,000Bht ( panels through Alibaba) , but I'll also save on the roof I'm building as I'll use the panels as the roofing panels, seal the gaps with silicon, this will also keep them cooler than fixing them ontop of a standard roof...

So you're looking at a capacity factor around 10% after inverter losses which is fairly standard for a fixed installation, and a payoff time around 6.5 years with the premium rate, which is pretty good. Many Aussies looking at a much longer payoff, even with a high rate, but I guess the panel prices have dropped over the last couple of years.

Hmmm, had to rethink that, as I didn't allow for your own daytime consumption, so increase the payoff time a bit.

Thanks for the data. I hope it gives other would-be installers a more accurate insight than that presented by the salesmen.

BTW better production techniques and longer panel life have increased the EIEOR from the 7 that I quoted earlier to around 20ish.

Edited July 13, 2013 by OzMick

[Thai at Heart]

I've just purchased 50 x 100w panels from China (115,000Bht inc taxes delivered to Bangkok), on an overcast day they produce 10% (500w), if very dark and rainy 5% .... panells in UK are same as panels here and will work fine anywhere, used here the higher temperatures will give slight loss in efficency but more than made up for by increase in power due to 'stronger' sunlight

I'm assuming you have an output meter - do you ever achieve the rated output of 5kW?

After inverter losses 4.4kw at best : adverage daily output (in rain and sun) about 10 kwHrs (units) x 6.5Bht= 65Bht/day =23,725Bht/year . including cost of inverter and wires, total cost of system about 150,000Bht ( panels through Alibaba) , but I'll also save on the roof I'm building as I'll use the panels as the roofing panels, seal the gaps with silicon, this will also keep them cooler than fixing them ontop of a standard roof...

So you're looking at a capacity factor around 10% after inverter losses which is fairly standard for a fixed installation, and a payoff time around 6.5 years with the premium rate, which is pretty good. Many Aussies looking at a much longer payoff, even with a high rate, but I guess the panel prices have dropped over the last couple of years.

Hmmm, had to rethink that, as I didn't allow for your own daytime consumption, so increase the payoff time a bit.

Thanks for the data. I hope it gives other would-be installers a more accurate insight than that presented by the salesmen.

BTW better production techniques and longer panel life have increased the EIEOR from the 7 that I quoted earlier to around 20ish.

Calculated payoff for the solar farms is about 5.5 years. Haven't done the calcs using this feeder rate yet for household.

The most obvious benefit for expats who stay home will probably be being able to run their sitcom more and longer.

[hellodolly]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

[retell]

I've just purchased 50 x 100w panels from China (115,000Bht inc taxes delivered to Bangkok), on an overcast day they produce 10% (500w), if very dark and rainy 5% .... panells in UK are same as panels here and will work fine anywhere, used here the higher temperatures will give slight loss in efficency but more than made up for by increase in power due to 'stronger' sunlight

I'm assuming you have an output meter - do you ever achieve the rated output of 5kW?

After inverter losses 4.4kw at best : adverage daily output (in rain and sun) about 10 kwHrs (units) x 6.5Bht= 65Bht/day =23,725Bht/year . including cost of inverter and wires, total cost of system about 150,000Bht ( panels through Alibaba) , but I'll also save on the roof I'm building as I'll use the panels as the roofing panels, seal the gaps with silicon, this will also keep them cooler than fixing them ontop of a standard roof...

So you're looking at a capacity factor around 10% after inverter losses which is fairly standard for a fixed installation, and a payoff time around 6.5 years with the premium rate, which is pretty good. Many Aussies looking at a much longer payoff, even with a high rate, but I guess the panel prices have dropped over the last couple of years.

Hmmm, had to rethink that, as I didn't allow for your own daytime consumption, so increase the payoff time a bit.

Thanks for the data. I hope it gives other would-be installers a more accurate insight than that presented by the salesmen.

BTW better production techniques and longer panel life have increased the EIEOR from the 7 that I quoted earlier to around 20ish.

Calculated payoff for the solar farms is about 5.5 years. Haven't done the calcs using this feeder rate yet for household.

The most obvious benefit for expats who stay home will probably be being able to run their sitcom more and longer.

was that a pun you put ?

solar is great but in a hot climate as Thailand i would prefer cooled panels , and also a small woodgas generator

[retell]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

as much i like my western crapper i still do not know how that fits in the topic . as an example not really clear

[Thai at Heart]

I've just purchased 50 x 100w panels from China (115,000Bht inc taxes delivered to Bangkok), on an overcast day they produce 10% (500w), if very dark and rainy 5% .... panells in UK are same as panels here and will work fine anywhere, used here the higher temperatures will give slight loss in efficency but more than made up for by increase in power due to 'stronger' sunlight

I'm assuming you have an output meter - do you ever achieve the rated output of 5kW?

After inverter losses 4.4kw at best : adverage daily output (in rain and sun) about 10 kwHrs (units) x 6.5Bht= 65Bht/day =23,725Bht/year . including cost of inverter and wires, total cost of system about 150,000Bht ( panels through Alibaba) , but I'll also save on the roof I'm building as I'll use the panels as the roofing panels, seal the gaps with silicon, this will also keep them cooler than fixing them ontop of a standard roof...

So you're looking at a capacity factor around 10% after inverter losses which is fairly standard for a fixed installation, and a payoff time around 6.5 years with the premium rate, which is pretty good. Many Aussies looking at a much longer payoff, even with a high rate, but I guess the panel prices have dropped over the last couple of years.

Hmmm, had to rethink that, as I didn't allow for your own daytime consumption, so increase the payoff time a bit.

Thanks for the data. I hope it gives other would-be installers a more accurate insight than that presented by the salesmen.

BTW better production techniques and longer panel life have increased the EIEOR from the 7 that I quoted earlier to around 20ish.

Calculated payoff for the solar farms is about 5.5 years. Haven't done the calcs using this feeder rate yet for household.

The most obvious benefit for expats who stay home will probably be being able to run their sitcom more and longer.

was that a pun you put ?

solar is great but in a hot climate as Thailand i would prefer cooled panels , and also a small woodgas generator

Look at the maths up top. You earn 25k per year on a small system. You can reduce your bills by 2k per month. A lot will just get consumed by more use of ac at home.

[tonneke breda]

Better install them only on high-rise condo's or the thieves will have a ball

[retell]

Better install them only on high-rise condo's or the thieves will have a ball

i shall invite a "try out crew" and an ambulance once they put the ladder to the roof

[retell]

I've just purchased 50 x 100w panels from China (115,000Bht inc taxes delivered to Bangkok), on an overcast day they produce 10% (500w), if very dark and rainy 5% .... panells in UK are same as panels here and will work fine anywhere, used here the higher temperatures will give slight loss in efficency but more than made up for by increase in power due to 'stronger' sunlight

I'm assuming you have an output meter - do you ever achieve the rated output of 5kW?

After inverter losses 4.4kw at best : adverage daily output (in rain and sun) about 10 kwHrs (units) x 6.5Bht= 65Bht/day =23,725Bht/year . including cost of inverter and wires, total cost of system about 150,000Bht ( panels through Alibaba) , but I'll also save on the roof I'm building as I'll use the panels as the roofing panels, seal the gaps with silicon, this will also keep them cooler than fixing them ontop of a standard roof...

So you're looking at a capacity factor around 10% after inverter losses which is fairly standard for a fixed installation, and a payoff time around 6.5 years with the premium rate, which is pretty good. Many Aussies looking at a much longer payoff, even with a high rate, but I guess the panel prices have dropped over the last couple of years.

Hmmm, had to rethink that, as I didn't allow for your own daytime consumption, so increase the payoff time a bit.

Thanks for the data. I hope it gives other would-be installers a more accurate insight than that presented by the salesmen.

BTW better production techniques and longer panel life have increased the EIEOR from the 7 that I quoted earlier to around 20ish.

Calculated payoff for the solar farms is about 5.5 years. Haven't done the calcs using this feeder rate yet for household.

The most obvious benefit for expats who stay home will probably be being able to run their sitcom more and longer.

was that a pun you put ?

solar is great but in a hot climate as Thailand i would prefer cooled panels , and also a small woodgas generator

Look at the maths up top. You earn 25k per year on a small system. You can reduce your bills by 2k per month. A lot will just get consumed by more use of ac at home.

so i got roof 30x6 on both sides east to west whole day sun 99% of the year

in daytime could make a killing out of this " scheme" if i ever install those panels

[GentlemanJim]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

as much i like my western crapper i still do not know how that fits in the topic . as an example not really clear

I 'think' it means that much as Thai builders have changed the design/plumbing in houses to incorporate western toilets as standard, then in the near future this kind of plan would require Thai builders to start incorporating solar panels or the infrastructure to fit them easily at some point.

[OzMick]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

The "green" blind hatred of hydro-dams will be seen as one of the sillier eccentricities of the past as fossil fuels become scarcer and more expensive. The capabilities of hydro-power make the energy produced much more valuable than the "uncontrolled" variable supply of other non-fossil generation. Hydro power is storable, available 24/7/365, and gives fast response for load following (if you don't know what that means, it would pay to inform yourself) - giving it a true value many times higher than the subsidised over-price being offered for solar energy.

Add to that the capability of a hydro scheme to STORE excess energy, and your attitude is at best ill-informed. Germany with its heavy use of wind power is finding the variability of supply a headache, and steam power stations (coal/oil/nuke) are simply incapable of fast enough response to compensate**, where a hydro could, either by changing input or load of a pumped stored-energy system.

** A specially designed steam plant with fast response burners and a hugely over-size steam drum might be possible, but at the cost of efficiency loss and greatly increased stress damage. Large steam units are usually designed for base load operation, and in oz we sell night-time energy at near cost price to keep units loaded above destabilising lower limits.

Edited July 14, 2013 by OzMick

[Thai at Heart]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

The "green" blind hatred of hydro-dams will be seen as one of the sillier eccentricities of the past as fossil fuels become scarcer and more expensive. The capabilities of hydro-power make the energy produced much more valuable than the "uncontrolled" variable supply of other non-fossil generation. Hydro power is storable, available 24/7/365, and gives fast response for load following (if you don't know what that means, it would pay to inform yourself) - giving it a true value many times higher than the subsidised over-price being offered for solar energy.

Add to that the capability of a hydro scheme to STORE excess energy, and your attitude is at best ill-informed. Germany with its heavy use of wind power is finding the variability of supply a headache, and steam power stations (coal/oil/nuke) are simply incapable of fast enough response to compensate**, where a hydro could, either by changing input or load of a pumped stored-energy system.

** A specially designed steam plant with fast response burners and a hugely over-size steam drum might be possible, but at the cost of efficiency loss and greatly increased stress damage. Large steam units are usually designed for base load operation, and in oz we sell night-time energy at near cost price to keep units loaded above destabilising lower limits.

They have a huge problem with load balancing from their huge solar installations also.

[Chao Lao Beach]

"As for the electricity cost in the second half of this year, it is likely that the Ft will rise by about Bt2.80 per unit to reflect the higher costs caused by the weak baht and the higher price of natural gas. "

Weak Baht = nearly a 50% increase ? What horse shti is this?

How come people here are not concerned about the current policy to double the price of gas over the next 18 months, this seems to be muted in the media.

​So electricity is going to be the as Singapore, but, it wont effect Thailand apparently. It wont effect me personally much, maybe just a couple thousand baht a month more, but with more houses becoming modern, their energy use skyrocketing and the price rocketing up, it is a double whammy.

A good American friend, told me that it will be cheaper in USA for electricity !!! (Look at the rate sin very expensive Australia, it is not far off Oz prices, but in 2 years they will prob sky rocket in oz as well though)

Edited July 14, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[Chao Lao Beach]

The Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (Egat) expects the electricity tariff will hit five baht per kilowatt-hour (unit), on a par with Singapore in two years. Click here for more

Electricity bills to rise 35% in Thailand

Government blames costly liquefied natural gas for tariff hike.

The Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand expects the electricity tariff will hit US$0.17 per kilowatt hour, on par with Singapore, in two years due to the rising price of LNG.

EGAT Governor Sutat Patmasiriwat said imports of costly LNG are a major reason for the projected increase in the power tariff from an average of US$0.12 per kWh at present.

He said using gas from domestic sources costs US$0.10 per kWh for power generation compared to US$0.19 per kWh for imported LNG. Production of local gas, however, has peaked and is falling, paving the way for imported LNG to play a larger role in power production.

- See more at: http://asian-power.com/power-utility/in-focus/electricity-bills-rise-35-in-thailand#sthash.HqGg6dyb.dpuf

[retell]

"As for the electricity cost in the second half of this year, it is likely that the Ft will rise by about Bt2.80 per unit to reflect the higher costs caused by the weak baht and the higher price of natural gas. "

Weak Baht = nearly a 50% increase ? What horse shti is this?

How come people here are not concerned about the current policy to double the price of gas over the next 18 months, this seems to be muted in the media.

​So electricity is going to be the as Singapore, but, it wont effect Thailand apparently. It wont effect me personally much, maybe just a couple thousand baht a month more, but with more houses becoming modern, their energy use skyrocketing and the price rocketing up, it is a double whammy.

A good American friend, told me that it will be cheaper in USA for electricity !!! (Look at the rate sin very expensive Australia, it is not far off Oz prices, but in 2 years they will prob sky rocket in oz as well though)

i pay more here than in holland

[Tep]

"As for the electricity cost in the second half of this year, it is likely that the Ft will rise by about Bt2.80 per unit to reflect the higher costs caused by the weak baht and the higher price of natural gas. "

Weak Baht = nearly a 50% increase ? What horse shti is this?

How come people here are not concerned about the current policy to double the price of gas over the next 18 months, this seems to be muted in the media.

​So electricity is going to be the as Singapore, but, it wont effect Thailand apparently. It wont effect me personally much, maybe just a couple thousand baht a month more, but with more houses becoming modern, their energy use skyrocketing and the price rocketing up, it is a double whammy.

A good American friend, told me that it will be cheaper in USA for electricity !!! (Look at the rate sin very expensive Australia, it is not far off Oz prices, but in 2 years they will prob sky rocket in oz as well though)

There is no policy to double the price of gas over the next 18 months in Thailand. The report spoke of various forces that will impact on the price of gas, including increasing fuel costs and FX rates. The policy of the Thai Government is to attempt to mitigate the effects of these price increases as announced by the Prime Minister after a meeting of key agencies last Friday.

The cost of gas as a fuel source for power production is passed through to the consumer in the Fuel Adjustment Charge or Ft. The price of the gas calculated in the Ft, which is approved every 4 months, is based on the Henry Hub price, which is the US spot market price for gas. Gas shippers generally purchase their gas on the basis of long term contracts with the price linked to oil, however other hubs, particularly in Europe are starting to develop. These hubs are starting to break the link between gas and oil prices but it is still standard in Asia.

Gas in the US is undergoing a dramatic change due to shale gas. There are parts of the US (around North Dakota) where the Shale Gas is being 'flared' or burnt at the well because the gas price is so low that it is uneconomic to build the pipelines to transport it to consumers. It is likely that the future of shale gas in the US will include export as LNG but the infrastructure to liquify and transport LNG from the US is limited. Until recently the LNG infrastructure was being built to receive gas since the US thought it would become a net importer of electricity. Shale gas has changed this. Also exports have to be approved by the Department of Energy and they are currently only approving export to countries with Free Trade Agreements with the US. Thailand is not one these countries, however Korea and Japan are, meaning US Shale Gas has the potential to impact on the regional market.

Some figures on the cost of gas (I cannot provide weblinks as they are internal figures from the Energy Regulatory Commission) - the demand charge for gas from the Gulf of Thailand being supplied to Rayong for power production and the petrochemical industries is 8.5899 baht/million BTU. The demand charge for gas from LNG is 24.9320 baht/million BTU (gas prices in Thailand comprise 2 components, demand charge and commodity charge with the demand charge recovering investment costs (CAPEX) and commodity charge covering operating costs and fuel). You can see the significant difference in price from the domestic gas source in the Gulf of Thailand and the cost of LNG. Even if LNG at its source is very cheap the transportation and storage costs make it quite expensive. With the diminishing gas fields in the Gulf of Thailand, LNG will become increasingly important in Thailand's gas supply.

Singapore is attempting to develop a LNG hub so it may mean LNG pricing can be based on regional market prices in the future.

Currently electricity prices in Thailand are based on the cost recovery principle however there are some subsidy mechanisms that are meant to assist disadvantaged consumers. To maintain this principle, the tariff structure is subject to international market forces and there are only limited ways in which governments can intervene. Personally I do not believe that government intervention is a positive strategy but I do agree with a transparent, out put based subsidy mechanism to help disadvantaged consumers. For standard consumers, an effective response to increasing electricity prices is energy efficiency; purchase more energy efficient appliances and think about curtailing electricity use.

[Tep]

"As for the electricity cost in the second half of this year, it is likely that the Ft will rise by about Bt2.80 per unit to reflect the higher costs caused by the weak baht and the higher price of natural gas. "

Weak Baht = nearly a 50% increase ? What horse shti is this?

How come people here are not concerned about the current policy to double the price of gas over the next 18 months, this seems to be muted in the media.

​So electricity is going to be the as Singapore, but, it wont effect Thailand apparently. It wont effect me personally much, maybe just a couple thousand baht a month more, but with more houses becoming modern, their energy use skyrocketing and the price rocketing up, it is a double whammy.

A good American friend, told me that it will be cheaper in USA for electricity !!! (Look at the rate sin very expensive Australia, it is not far off Oz prices, but in 2 years they will prob sky rocket in oz as well though)

i pay more here than in holland

Holland benefits from participating in a competitive generation market. Thailand's electricity supply industry is based on long term contracts and regulated prices, even at the generation level. It is argued that these long term contracts and prices that include a fuel cost pass through are necessary to finance new investment in capacity, which Thailand as a developing economy needs. I do believe however, that the very strong activity in the private wholesale generation sector is an indication of the attractiveness of power prices to investors. Perhaps future contracts could take into consideration the needs of consumers or perhaps even competitive elements can be introduced so Thailand consumer can benefit like Dutch consumers.

[OzMick]

I recently convinced my 83yo mother (in oz) to upgrade refrigerator, freezer and washing machine to new, energy efficient units as the price of electricity is such that they will likely recoup their cost in energy savings over her admittedly limited life span. Included in the consideration was the high price of maintenance on aging units.

I also overhauled her pressure cooker (the forgotten appliance!) for more efficient cooking, at her request.

The "old" units were donated to charity, which passes on their energy cost to those even less able to afford them.

Electricity prices in oz are rising rapidly, despite having huge top quality coal reserves, largely due to government policies. When I joined the electricity Commission of NSW its target was the cheapest electricity for the people of that state; before I left a privatised Macquarie Generation that had changed to maximum profit, even if it meant not taking actions which would have increased output and reduced price (but also profit).

[aussiebebe]

I hope for Thailand's sake this idea takes off - imagine if they had done this instead of the rice pledge scheme. Solar panels are cheaper than ever and while we would probably have seen similar levels of corruption, at least there would have been something left expect rotten rice.

[hellodolly]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

as much i like my western crapper i still do not know how that fits in the topic . as an example not really clear

I 'think' it means that much as Thai builders have changed the design/plumbing in houses to incorporate western toilets as standard, then in the near future this kind of plan would require Thai builders to start incorporating solar panels or the infrastructure to fit them easily at some point.

Exactly they recently passed a law that all new building have western pluming. That is a start. They also passed a law that all government buildings install it.

Change the wording to solar panels and you have a start. There is no quick fix but it needs a start.

Instead of tax breaks on new cars they could have given them on solar panels probably in the form of a rebate from the government. The point is they need to start once started they will find better ways.

I am out of my league with the numbers being thrown around and debated on. What I would like to know is with the present technologies how long would it take to recoup the investment on purchasing and installing solar panels.

This of course is a price that would be far more than designing the buildings for them in the first place.

Not sure why they don't look into geothermal.

I know people will laugh about it but why not ask China for advice they spend more on green energy than any other country in the world.

[hellodolly]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

The "green" blind hatred of hydro-dams will be seen as one of the sillier eccentricities of the past as fossil fuels become scarcer and more expensive. The capabilities of hydro-power make the energy produced much more valuable than the "uncontrolled" variable supply of other non-fossil generation. Hydro power is storable, available 24/7/365, and gives fast response for load following (if you don't know what that means, it would pay to inform yourself) - giving it a true value many times higher than the subsidised over-price being offered for solar energy.

Add to that the capability of a hydro scheme to STORE excess energy, and your attitude is at best ill-informed. Germany with its heavy use of wind power is finding the variability of supply a headache, and steam power stations (coal/oil/nuke) are simply incapable of fast enough response to compensate**, where a hydro could, either by changing input or load of a pumped stored-energy system.

** A specially designed steam plant with fast response burners and a hugely over-size steam drum might be possible, but at the cost of efficiency loss and greatly increased stress damage. Large steam units are usually designed for base load operation, and in oz we sell night-time energy at near cost price to keep units loaded above destabilising lower limits.

You are proceeding on the idea that just completely rely on hydro build dams all over the place. Because that is what it would take to supply the energy in the future.

In parts of B C Canada where it is all hydro electric they have had times known as brown outs also in the Seattle area all were reliant on hydro electricity.

If you would take a closer look at my posts I am suggesting that they start to do some thing. Not that they come out and say do it right now.

I have even suggested two other things besides solar energy. I saw a documentary years ago on China where they have developed a system for one household to generate enough electricity to run itself.

No one is saying don't use hydro electricity but a lot of us are saying there are other ways and they will be improved on if worked on. Hydro Electricity has it's time limitations also not in are life time but they will build up with material being washed down stream the same as the deltas at the mouth of many big rivers. I never really paid attention to it because I was like you and just assumed hydro electricity would be around for ever . But I do recall 20 or so years ago about some dams filling with sediment. I just didn't pay attention.

[MaxLee]

I think Thailand will have more than a flood crisis,... A Power crisis is more likely at that point.

[OzMick]

Just like Kurnell says, way to late like almost anything else in Thailand, but better now than never. Gonna have to see it first before I believe it though .

To be honest I was not aware of this happening 30 years ago. But I do believe that today wind turbines are operated by many people on a very similar program in some of the States. Solar panels have come a long way but they still need a little back up system. Possibly hooked in with geothermal it works 24 hours a day. The day of having to have large eco destroying dams just for electricity are gone there is no more need for them. We do have the technology it is just a matter of implementing it in new construction. Much as the western toilets.

It for sure is not an overnight solution but steps should be taken to get the ball rolling.

The "green" blind hatred of hydro-dams will be seen as one of the sillier eccentricities of the past as fossil fuels become scarcer and more expensive. The capabilities of hydro-power make the energy produced much more valuable than the "uncontrolled" variable supply of other non-fossil generation. Hydro power is storable, available 24/7/365, and gives fast response for load following (if you don't know what that means, it would pay to inform yourself) - giving it a true value many times higher than the subsidised over-price being offered for solar energy.

Add to that the capability of a hydro scheme to STORE excess energy, and your attitude is at best ill-informed. Germany with its heavy use of wind power is finding the variability of supply a headache, and steam power stations (coal/oil/nuke) are simply incapable of fast enough response to compensate**, where a hydro could, either by changing input or load of a pumped stored-energy system.

** A specially designed steam plant with fast response burners and a hugely over-size steam drum might be possible, but at the cost of efficiency loss and greatly increased stress damage. Large steam units are usually designed for base load operation, and in oz we sell night-time energy at near cost price to keep units loaded above destabilising lower limits.

You are proceeding on the idea that just completely rely on hydro build dams all over the place. Because that is what it would take to supply the energy in the future.

In parts of B C Canada where it is all hydro electric they have had times known as brown outs also in the Seattle area all were reliant on hydro electricity.

If you would take a closer look at my posts I am suggesting that they start to do some thing. Not that they come out and say do it right now.

I have even suggested two other things besides solar energy. I saw a documentary years ago on China where they have developed a system for one household to generate enough electricity to run itself.

No one is saying don't use hydro electricity but a lot of us are saying there are other ways and they will be improved on if worked on. Hydro Electricity has it's time limitations also not in are life time but they will build up with material being washed down stream the same as the deltas at the mouth of many big rivers. I never really paid attention to it because I was like you and just assumed hydro electricity would be around for ever . But I do recall 20 or so years ago about some dams filling with sediment. I just didn't pay attention.

Thailand will never have enough dam sites for hydro-generation to supply all its energy - but it is a smart move to use what they have.

Dams can be de-silted. Not cheap, but the soil recovered is a valuable resource.

Deep bore geothermal is fairly experimental AFAIK, and the hot springs geothermal in NZ produces a very small amount of energy. I know there are hot springs dotted along the southern peninsula, but whether suitable????

[wolfmanjack]

Geothermal could be used to cool the houses instead of aircons. The pipes would only need to be buried apprx 2 meters then ran through the cement walls and floors.

[wolfmanjack]

Geothermal could be used to cool the houses instead of aircons. The pipes would only need to be buried apprx 2 meters then ran through the cement walls and floors.

[wolfmanjack]

double post due to slow internet.

Edited July 17, 2013 by wolfmanjack

[edgarfriendly]

do you have a link explaining this in greater detail...

[retell]

do you have a link explaining this in greater detail...

http://www.assuredcomfortheating.com/media/geothermal.gif

something like this

google geothermal cooling

[iporter]

Hey we are getting a bit off-topic. The thread is about rooftop Solar panels.

Is it understood that in order to offer a preferential feed-in tariff, a new electricity meter will need to be installed at the premises.

[agrg]

Sounds great until you realize that you need to make your application (which you can't actually do yet) wait for approval and build the system before the end of December. I've been waiting for ages for this policy to be announced and they've made a worse hash of it than the last one.