Zimmerman not guilty in Trayvon Martin death: Florida jury

[F430murci]

Why is Trayvon the aggressor?

Because he is the one who attacked Zimmerman, broke his nose and injured his head. There is nothing against the law about watching Trayvon. Trayvon is the only one who broke the law.

He did not break his nose.

At least 3 witneses testified that Zimmerman's nose was broken including an EMT who was on the scene and said that Zimmerman's nose was "very swollen", on both sides and bleeding, and that he had a laceration on the nose as well as swelling of other places on his face. The left-wing blogs are trying to claim it was not broken because there were no X rays done, despite expert testimony and photos that strongly suggest otherwise.

(CNN) -- A medical report by George Zimmerman's family doctor shows the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with a fractured nose, two black eyes and two lacerations on the back of the head after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/16/justice/florida-teen-shooting

The problem here, and it is a major problem from my perspective, is that the special prosecutor Corley, has been accused of submitting false affidavits and concealing evidence of Zimmerman's injuries from the Court, media and from Defense counsel. She has been accused of firing a whistleblower in her office that brought this to the attention of people outside her office. I am hedging here, but this is not conspiracy stuff and is a very serious matter.

Suppression of potential exculpatory evidence in a criminal trial is perhaps one of the most egregious actions a lawyer can take and many on here have been misled by some of the possible ethical violations by the special prosecutor that have allegedly taken place.

Can you imagine if your life and freedom was at stake and the prosecution failed to tell the court or provide your counsel with evidence that may have proved your innocence?

[Publicus]

Zimmerman was found not guilty because the preponderance of evidence supported his version of events. Trayvon attacked him, broke his nose and injured his head and so he shot him in self defence. If it were not for racial politics, he never would have been charged in the first place.

The NAACP will lose, if they try to charge Zimmerman with violating Trayvon's civil rights.

Zimmerman did nothing to violate Martin's civil rights and every attorney I have heard - on both sides - admits this. There is NO evidence that he was a racist and plenty that he is not.

If Travon's parents try to sue him, when they lose - and they will - they will have to pay all his legal fees as well as their own. That will not be cheap. As Don West said, the percecution prosecution of Zimmerman was a disgrace.

Zimmerman has very good chance at winning a case for malicious prosecution. The prosecution withheld evidence about Trayvon's criminal activities and the defence only found out about it because of a whistle blower who was fired for turning it over.

Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- An employee of the Florida State Attorney's Office who testified that prosecutors withheld evidence from George Zimmerman's defense team has been fired.

Ben Kruidbos had been on paid administrative leave since May 28 from his job as director of information technology for the State Attorney's Office. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justice/zimmerman-it-firing/index.html

A great article on the FACTS of Zimmerman trial.

Even on the irrelevant question of whether or not Zimmerman profiled Martin, the prosecution has struggled, despite enjoying the advantage of getting to leave jurors in the dark about most of Martins past. Zimmermans monstrous hate crime, it turns out, was that he profiled a juvenile delinquent as a juvenile delinquent. He said that Martin looked like he was on drugs. He was. He said that he was behaving suspiciously. He was. Jurors may hear about the marijuana in his system (the judge has now said that the defense can use a toxicology report), but they wont hear about his suspension from school at the time, his schools discovery of stolen goods and a burglary tool in his backpack, and his past fights. http://spectator.org...the-prosecution

So Zimmerman, therefore, can kill Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman was armed and initiated the events of that night. Martin was unarmed.

After Zimmerman shot Martin, Zimmerman made no attempt to see if he could save Martin's life. Zimmerman ignored the fatally wounded Martin because Zimmerman had done what he set out to do.

Kill.

What was supposed to do, perform emergency surgery on the sidewalk. He was a security office not a thoracic surgeon.

What he set out to do. What? If he wanted to off him, he could have gun out and offed him immediately. I doubt he set out to get his ass kicked, have nose busted and have his head pounded into the pavement so he could then have a excuse to shoot him. That's retarded and exemplifies the irrational thought process that causes racism on both sides.

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

[F430murci]

Oh yes, of course. Let's have the government choose panels of "correct thinkers" (Like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?) to judge people. I'm sure everything would be just rosy.

There IS as process of evaluation and elimination in the current system, and both sides get to interview and object to the various candidates who might sit on the jury.

The jury of ordinary citizens is one of my best protections against the government.

Places I've lived in the U.S. my neighbors are MUCH scarier than trained professional jurists. Yes, I am serious.

It's not exactly an original idea. Other countries do it. It's not going to happen in the U.S. because of the people's myths about how great they are as citizens. In reality, I don't think they are good enough to be trusted on juries. American people don't even vote very much. Tells you a lot. It's really true the general feeling in the U.S. is that only suckers get stuck on juries. Some system!

I get the heroic myths. I was taught them too. Then you experience adult reality. Something is rotten.

We’re in the 21st Century, and our legal system uses a method of adjudication that was invented in the Middle Ages. It’s time for a more professional way of resolving legal disputes, one where the decisionmakers are not a bunch of often-unwilling people plucked from the street, forced to upend their lives to resolve the disputes of others, and without the expertise to evaluate the facts and apply the law.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/03/23/should-we-have-professional-juries/

You can get a yah haw to say anything for print to get a little bit of attention.

I have tried over 50 jury trials (a lot for a civil guy), 15+/- bench trial, and perhaps 50 arbitrations. Arbitration panels are comparable to professional juries.

I have counseled my clients regarding insertion of arbitration provisions in admission agreements and brokerage contracts. I have conducted seminars on the pro and cons of incorporating arbitration agreements.

The only advantage I can see from a purely "fairness" perspective, is that in cases involving punitive damages (such as nursing home cases), arbitration panels are less likely to go in the stratosphere on punitive damages ($ 25,000,000 to $ 100,000,000 range). Trial judges, however, sitting as thirteenth juror review the evidence and reduce awards through remittitur when awards are excessive so this is not really much of a consideration.

I can tell you without a doubt, arbitration panels are no better than juries and if you are a skilled trial lawyer, you will prefer a jury any day. I think juries take their jobs more seriously. They listen more attentively. They are more patient and they seem better at erasing preconceived notions about what the law should be from their mind.

Jury instructions are generally easy to follow. I have seen some bizzare focus group discussions on closed circuit, but generally they cut through all of the legal mumbo jumbo bs and apply common sense which seems to be lacking in the ;legal setting at times when people try to get to intellectual.

Arbitration is also extremely biased (which has been good for me). Most arbitrators are on the conservative side. Both side pick one arbitrator and the third is selected by the two arbitrators. (8) times out of (10) the third is going to be slightly to extremely conservative side. I don't think Sharpton, NAACP or any of those guys would ever suggest professional juries for that reason alone.

[Chicog]

At least 3 witneses testified that Zimmerman's nose was broken including an EMT who was on the scene and said that Zimmerman's nose was "very swollen", on both sides and bleeding, and that he had a laceration on the nose as well as swelling of other places on his face. The left-wing blogs are trying to claim it was not broken because there were no X rays done, despite expert testimony and photos that strongly suggest otherwise.

(CNN) -- A medical report by George Zimmerman's family doctor shows the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with a fractured nose, two black eyes and two lacerations on the back of the head after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/16/justice/florida-teen-shooting

I'll say it one.more.time. The report from the person who treated him mentions only a nose bleed and a bit of puffiness. It is public record. His family physician wrote down that he had a broken nose because Zimmerman told him that's what the EMS had said, which was untrue.

The photo the medic took after he cleaned the blood off is the one you should look at. That ain't no broken nose and I should know, mine has been broken more times than Liz Taylor's marital vows.

The broken nose was an obvious defence claim to bolster the "vicious beating" claims, but like the little scratches on his head, it was a minor injury.

Otherwise, why wouldn't he get an X-Ray to confirm, if not at least to see if it needed setting?

I'll tell you why. Because it was bulls**t, that's why.

[kikoman]

Those that say Trayvon was raining blows on Zimmerman, the Medical Examiner testified he found no evidence of injury to Trayvon's hands during his autopsy, indicated a minor abrasion to one hand that could have happened prior to the night he was killed.

Trayvon was reportedly quite the fighter. He could have easily been using a hammer fist strike or an open palm or a combination of both. Either strike causes very little damage to one's hands. Many experienced fighters avoid using their knuckles in a street fight as they can break easily.

Trayvon had no history of any type of specific self defense training, he could have been a hell of a school yard fighter but no training at all.

On the other hand Zimmerman was trained for over a year (3) times per week in "Ground and Pound" MMA combat fighting in that training you are taught how to fight off your back. During that year of training he lost 90 lbs and was in great physical shape, his Roly-Polly look now is not how he looked the night he shot Trayvon, he gain 100 lbs since the shooting!

I had quite an extensive life as a street fighter and a barroom brawler, I was fighting 30 year old cowboys in Arizona into my mid 60's, I never punch with a hammer fist strike, only broke my knuckles twice, my last fight was here in Pattaya when I fought 4 Thai's on Soi 8, and was stabbed in the left upper arm.

Zimmerman had 38 lb weight advantage and was a trained MMA Combat fighter., there is a world of difference in this fight, Zimmerman instigated the fight and his injuries the medical examiner testified they were minor and superficial.

Cheers:

I

Edited July 15, 2013 by kikoman

[gl555]

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

[gl555]

You people just love to harp on his MMA training while ignoring the fact that Zimmerman's own MMA teacher testified he sucked at his training, was physically soft and a lousy fighter. 38 pound advantage? Google image George Zimmerman. That 38 pound advantage looks like it's all fat.

Those that say Trayvon was raining blows on Zimmerman, the Medical Examiner testified he found no evidence of injury to Trayvon's hands during his autopsy, indicated a minor abrasion to one hand that could have happened prior to the night he was killed.

Trayvon was reportedly quite the fighter. He could have easily been using a hammer fist strike or an open palm or a combination of both. Either strike causes very little damage to one's hands. Many experienced fighters avoid using their knuckles in a street fight as they can break easily.

Trayvon had no history of any type of specific self defense training, he could have been a hell of a school yard fighter but no training at all.

On the other hand Zimmerman was trained for over a year (3) times per week in "Ground and Pound" MMA combat fighting in that training you are taught how to fight off your back. During that year of training he lost 90 lbs and was in great physical shape, his Roly-Polly look now is not how he looked the night he shot Trayvon, he gain 100 lbs since the shooting!

I had quite an extensive life as a street fighter and a barroom brawler, I was fighting 30 year old cowboys in Arizona into my mid 60's, I never punch with a hammer fist strike, only broke my knuckles twice, my last fight was here in Pattaya when I fought 4 Thai's on Soi 8, and was stabbed in the left upper arm.

Zimmerman had 38 lb weight advantage and was a trained MMA Combat fighter., there is a world of difference in this fight, Zimmerman instigated the fight and his injuries the medical examiner testified they were minor and superficial.

Cheers:

I

[F430murci]

At least 3 witneses testified that Zimmerman's nose was broken including an EMT who was on the scene and said that Zimmerman's nose was "very swollen", on both sides and bleeding, and that he had a laceration on the nose as well as swelling of other places on his face. The left-wing blogs are trying to claim it was not broken because there were no X rays done, despite expert testimony and photos that strongly suggest otherwise.

(CNN) -- A medical report by George Zimmerman's family doctor shows the neighborhood watch volunteer was diagnosed with a fractured nose, two black eyes and two lacerations on the back of the head after his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/16/justice/florida-teen-shooting

I'll say it one.more.time. The report from the person who treated him mentions only a nose bleed and a bit of puffiness. It is public record. His family physician wrote down that he had a broken nose because Zimmerman told him that's what the EMS had said, which was untrue.

The photo the medic took after he cleaned the blood off is the one you should look at. That ain't no broken nose and I should know, mine has been broken more times than Liz Taylor's marital vows.

The broken nose was an obvious defence claim to bolster the "vicious beating" claims, but like the little scratches on his head, it was a minor injury.

Otherwise, why wouldn't he get an X-Ray to confirm, if not at least to see if it needed setting?

I'll tell you why. Because it was bulls**t, that's why.

As I stated yesterday afternoon, unless a fracture is clearly displaced, there is no reason to x-ray and doctors will not typically order x-rays of the nose.

Broken nose may typically not show up on x-ray. In addition, cartilage may be broken and the x-ray still show negative. So you almost need a CAT scan to make an accurate evaluation.

You also show a lack of knowledge as to how medical charting works. Doctors will chart their observations (puffiness, red, blood and etc.), but will not say broke unless they have x-ray or objective study confirming fracture.

Here are five or six doctors saying the same thing.

http://www.realself.com/question/your-nose-cartilage-broken-even-x-rays-negative

Basically, if you get hit in the nose and it's crooked but wasn't before it's broken. I have seen a number of noses that are obviously broken (quite crooked) but had negative X-Rays. There really is no real reason to get an X-Ray other than to prove to an insurance company it's broken.

Alternatively, I have seen broken noses by X-ray that are straight and therefore don't need any treatment…

Basically, if you get hit in the nose and it's crooked but wasn't before it's broken. I have seen a number of noses that are obviously broken (quite crooked) but had negative X-Rays. There really is no real reason to get an X-Ray other than to prove to an insurance company it's broken.

Alternatively, I have seen broken noses by X-ray that are straight and therefore don't need any treatment other than being careful for a month or so.

Steven J. Pearlman, MD

Yes, it is possible that the cartilage is broken, even with a negative X-Ray. X-Rays are used to show disturbances within the bone, not soft tissue like cartilage. For an accurate examination of the cartilage you will need a cat scan and an examination by a doctor.

Jaime Perez, MD

Rhinoplasty Specialist

Plastic Surgery Center of Tampa

It sounds like you sustained a fair amount of blunt nasal trauma just two weeks ago. However, routine facial radiographs will most likely miss non-displaced, uncalcified nasal cartilaginous fractures. Therefore, please follow-up with an experienced Facial & Reconstructive Cosmetic Surgeon for further work-up of your current problem.

Robert Shumway, MD

Edited July 15, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

Haha, yeah that one takes the cake even by his standards . . .

[manarak]

The root of this injustice (Zimmerman walking free) is how the laws of self defense are written in Florida. They allow too much room for people to murder the only witness that could really fully implicate them. I expect a movement to change these kinds of laws in many states.

Not suggested that self defense shouldn't be allowed to use as a defense but am suggesting that it should be made harder.

Without actually having seen what exactly happened, it is really difficult to say who is at fault.

I guess it all depends on who attacked who, but given the evidence, I'd say Martin caused his own death. What makes you think different?

[Chicog]

I guess it all depends on who attacked who, but given the evidence, I'd say Martin caused his own death. What makes you think different?

Sheesh, and there was me thinking the bullet through the chest did it.

[Publicus]

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

The army infantry teaches highly effectively how to shoot to kill the enemy, thank you, and the many ways and means by which to do it. So be more careful about patronizing people you don't know.

Zimmerman was the initiator. He had a gun. He got out of the car contrary to instructions from the 911 advisor. Zimmerman targeted a guy, Trayvon, who was engaged only in innocent behavior. Trayvon was minding his own business. Trayvon was provoked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the gunman in this travesty.

Trayvon was unarmed and had no history involving firearms, no police record of violence, no arrest record, no record of martial training, was not at all known to be an aggressor, had no history as a troubled youth or adolescent. Trayvon simply was a person who'd just turned 17.

This verdict is something white America needs to understand, if it doesn't understand or comprehend it already. What's clear is that it's open season against young black males engaged only in innocent behavior. Shoot first and ask questions later. I think all Americans know that's what this verdict says and means, and the TVF Right Wing Caucus likes it.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Publicus

[F430murci]

I guess it all depends on who attacked who, but given the evidence, I'd say Martin caused his own death. What makes you think different?

Sheesh, and there was me thinking the bullet through the chest did it.

Haha, I can see that.

This whole thing comes down to spin though.

What is really irritating to me, is that this morning on my local hip station I listen to (and I listen to Steve Harvey on the way to work every morning), Steve Harvey interviewed Sharpton, the Martin Family lawyer and Judge Mathias (local celebrity black TV judge) this morning. Judge Mathias did not say this, but every one else kept repeating over and over that Zimmerman got off of murder charges while shooting and killing a young boy ding NOTHING but walking home from the store.

Not exactly true unless he would have just walked up and shot him before any altercation. He actually shot a young man walking home from the store that punched him the nose perhaps breaking his nose while standing and then three Zimmerman to the ground and started grounding and pounding his head into the concrete MMA style (confirmed by eye witness).

If they believe that Zimmerman profiled and initiated the conformation say that, but don't say Martin was killed while doing nothing but walking home from the store with some skittles. That does nothing but cause racial tension and racial animosity which is what they apparently want.

[F430murci]

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

The army infantry teaches highly effectively how to shoot to kill the enemy, thank you, and the many ways and means by which to do it. So be more careful about patronizing people you don't know.

Zimmerman was the initiator. He had a gun. He got out of the car contrary to instructions from the 911 advisor. Zimmerman targeted a guy, Trayvon, who was engaged only in innocent behavior. Trayvon was provoked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the gunman in this travesty.

Trayvon was unarmed and had no history involving firearms, no police record of violence., no record of martial training, i.e., a person who'd just turned 17.

This verdict is something white America needs to understand, if it doesn't understand or comprehend it already. What's clear is that it's open season against young black males engaged only in innocent behavior. I think white Americans know that's what this verdict says and means, and likes it.

Actually, this is not correct based on the only evidence presented.

The only version anyone has or only evidence is that Zimmerman lost sight of Martin (corroborated by how 911 call went down). Martin could have fled a short distance to Brandy's or wherever, but Martin apparently turned around, approached and confronted Zimmerman. He punched Zimmerman in the nose. Knocked him to the ground. Pounded his head into the cement and even told him Zimmerman he was about to die before they both struggled for the gun and Zimmerman shot him.

Now you are entitled to not believe that, but your version is based purely on fantasy and emotion.

Open season on black youths, seriously, Dude you get problems if that is how you see it.

[gl555]

I'm sorry but was George Zimmeman in the Army? Was he special forces?

Everyone else, they teach you to shoot center mass. I'm pretty sure if Zimmerman had special training, he may have been able to shoot to maim. He unfortunately did not.

As for your opinion of what happened,it's just that, an opinion. A jury has found him not guilty. You like many others want to make it a race issue when it's not. George Zimmerman wasn't a racist going after some black kid. Even the FBI said so. He's not guilty. Accept it.

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

The army infantry teaches highly effectively how to shoot to kill the enemy, thank you, and the many ways and means by which to do it. So be more careful about patronizing people you don't know.

Zimmerman was the initiator. He had a gun. He got out of the car contrary to instructions from the 911 advisor. Zimmerman targeted a guy, Trayvon, who was engaged only in innocent behavior. Trayvon was provoked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the gunman in this travesty.

Trayvon was unarmed and had no history involving firearms, no police record of violence., no record of martial training, i.e., a person who'd just turned 17.

This verdict is something white America needs to understand, if it doesn't understand or comprehend it already. What's clear is that it's open season against young black males engaged only in innocent behavior. I think white Americans know that's what this verdict says and means, and likes it.

[Jingthing]

Not guilty doesn't mean innocent. He is far from innocent.

[Johpa]

Zimmerman was the initiator. He had a gun. He got out of the car contrary to instructions from the 911 advisor. Zimmerman targeted a guy, Trayvon, who was engaged only in innocent behavior. Trayvon was minding his own business. Trayvon was provoked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the gunman in this travesty.

Trayvon was unarmed and had no history involving firearms, no police record of violence, no arrest record, no record of martial training, was not at all known to be an aggressor, had no history as a troubled youth or adolescent. Trayvon simply was a person who'd just turned 17.

Zimmerman was following Martin, not necessarily "targeting" him. Whether Zimmerman followed instructions from the 911 operator or not, is not relevent. Whether Trayvon was just an innocent kid out for some skittles or a gangbanger, or whether he was 17 or 57, is not relevant. Whether Zimmerman is a flaming racist or just a guy concerned about his neighborhood is also not relevant. There were no witnesses to whether Zimmerman provoked Martin or, the opposite, Martin provoked Zimmerman. This is the great unknowable in this legal matter. They both had a right to be there. This was a criminal legal case to be adjudicated by the jury based upon knowable facts and not suppositions and assumptions. And the knowable facts supported a decision of not guilty based upon a claim of self-defense. And unless new evidence were to appear, the same conclusion, at least I believe, would be reached in any further civil trial.

[Jingthing]

The reason they couldn't find him guilty is because of Florida law, they weren't allowed to consider Zimmerman's outrageous arrogance and recklessness in not listening to the 911 operator AND neglecting to openly ANNOUNCE who he was and what he was doing in following the dead boy victim. Based on those facts, Zimmerman has a lot actual culpability but that and the TECHNICALITIES of the law are separate matters.

Here's some backup of this. Not guilty according to the jury BUT morally culpable:

In the end, society must accept that there is not always a perfect fit between a criminal justice system and justice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ruth-marcus-zimmerman-verdict-in-martin-case-shows-justices-flaws/2013/07/14/7f7eae6a-ecc7-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424_story.html

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

[kikoman]

Gi555'

Why do you deny the truth that surfaced in the Trial, Zimmerman was a trained MMA fighter he attended more than 156 sessions on MMA tactics and fighting.That is fact, His trainer said he was wimpy anyone can be brave holding a gun, and not everyone tells the truth.

He tried to bully Trayvon and show off his newly acquired MMA talent and was bested by a 17 year old boy, 38 lbs lighter than he with none of the MMA training was the one that the defense witnesses say that Trayvon was doing the grounding and pounding, they lied to save Zimmerman, Plain and simple, Nothing has changed in the Jim Crow south where a Black American was shot to death by a man that profiled him, followed him and shot him. You blood and guts backers of Zimmerman, never took into account Trayvon also had a right to self defense in the state of Florida.

Lost B.S. a battle but not the war!

Get over it, not by a long shot only when Zimmerman has paid his debt for the killing of Trayvon, by whatever means.

Cheers:

[Publicus]

I'm sorry but was George Zimmeman in the Army? Was he special forces?

Everyone else, they teach you to shoot center mass. I'm pretty sure if Zimmerman had special training, he may have been able to shoot to maim. He unfortunately did not.

As for your opinion of what happened,it's just that, an opinion. A jury has found him not guilty. You like many others want to make it a race issue when it's not. George Zimmerman wasn't a racist going after some black kid. Even the FBI said so. He's not guilty. Accept it.

Have you no humanity?

Zimmerman did nothing to try to save Trayvon Martin's life. Zimmerman instead shot Martin to kill him, i.e., shot him in or in the immediate area of the heart, the same area of the chest John Lenon was fatally shot. If Zimmerman had any humanity, he would do all he could to save the life of Trayvon.

Military doctors work to repair the captured enemy wounded and try to save their lives. Zimmerman couldn't try to save a life?! Try?!

It's clear Zimmerman hasn't any humanity for certain people. Yet a good number of posters have great human sympathy and support of Zimmerman, a guy with a gun who set out after a guy without a gun.

I'd like to think you could search hard and dig deep inside you to find some human aspect to this crime, this death, this killing - to think about saving a life. To give it a thought. To give a thought to the possibility of trying to save a human life.

Oh please, cut the bleeding heart routine.

They train you to fire center mass. That's the chest area. Zimmerman may have sucked in his MMA training but he obviously took his firearm training seriously.

Zimmerman defended himself against someone attacking him. The jury has acquitted. That's that.

The army infantry teaches highly effectively how to shoot to kill the enemy, thank you, and the many ways and means by which to do it. So be more careful about patronizing people you don't know.

Zimmerman was the initiator. He had a gun. He got out of the car contrary to instructions from the 911 advisor. Zimmerman targeted a guy, Trayvon, who was engaged only in innocent behavior. Trayvon was provoked by Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the gunman in this travesty.

Trayvon was unarmed and had no history involving firearms, no police record of violence., no record of martial training, i.e., a person who'd just turned 17.

This verdict is something white America needs to understand, if it doesn't understand or comprehend it already. What's clear is that it's open season against young black males engaged only in innocent behavior. I think white Americans know that's what this verdict says and means, and likes it.

You're very good at playing dumb - I mean about my statement and the army infantry. To be sure you're clear, it's this poster who was in the army infantry and previously in the ROTC. So perhaps my statement to you about being more careful concerning who you try to patronize when you don't know the person is now a bit more clear to you. However, I'm still not sure you comprehend as you appear to be lost in the matter..

Meanwhile,

Timeline: Zimmerman’s reports involving suspicious activity in neighborhood

On August 4, 2011, Zimmerman submitted his first report to the Sanford Police Department about a suspicious black male walking around in the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood, where he served as a neighborhood watch captain.

The next day, Zimmerman called the department again, reporting another suspicious black male lurking in the area.

On October 6 of that year, Zimmerman called in a third report, again alerting authorities to a suspicious black male.

On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called in a similar report to the department.

“According to all records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat at Twins Lakes neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects in the matter,” the Sanford Police Department said in a statement after Martin was killed.

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

[gl555]

The bigger question is why do YOU deny the outcome of the trial when he's already been found not guilty?

His MMA teacher knows the best and if he says Zimmerman couldn't fight well, I believe him. You're insinuating that he lied under oath. Gee I guess when the verdict or testimony doesn't go your way, it's easy to dismiss that testimony as 'lies.'

Of all the arguments put here about the verdict, for and against, your idiot conspiracy theory takes the cake!

Gi555'

Why do you deny the truth that surfaced in the Trial, Zimmerman was a trained MMA fighter he attended more than 156 sessions on MMA tactics and fighting.That is fact, His trainer said he was wimpy anyone can be brave holding a gun, and not everyone tells the truth.

He tried to bully Trayvon and show off his newly acquired MMA talent and was bested by a 17 year old boy, 38 lbs lighter than he with none of the MMA training was the one that the defense witnesses say that Trayvon was doing the grounding and pounding, they lied to save Zimmerman, Plain and simple, Nothing has changed in the Jim Crow south where a Black American was shot to death by a man that profiled him, followed him and shot him. You blood and guts backers of Zimmerman, never took into account Trayvon also had a right to self defense in the state of Florida.

Lost B.S. a battle but not the war!

Get over it, not by a long shot only when Zimmerman has paid his debt for the killing of Trayvon, by whatever means.

Cheers:

[rsokolowski]

Mistakes were made on both sides (Zimmerman and Trayvon) that resulted in the death of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman probably should not have followed Trayvon (he was a neighborhood watch member), but if Trayvon had not assaulted George Zimmerman and tried to pound his brains out of his head on the cement sidewalk he would likely still be alive. George Zimmerman is here to tell his tale because he was legally carrying a concealed firearm, and used it in self defense.

Like it or not the jury believed that George Zimmerman had reason to fear for his life and use deadly force in self defense. This was supported by the evidence that was presented (Trayvon on top beating the crap out of Zimmerman on the bottom.

This case was a tragedy all around.

[gl555]

Who cares about your elite ROTC training? We're talking about George Zimmerman and HIS training. And yes I was being patronizing, If someone is so pathetic that he has to boast on an online forum about being in the army while discussing a topic such as this then he deserves to get patronized.

LOL! Funny you should mention the Feb 2 incident because police arrested that man a few days later with stolen items.

You're very good at playing dumb - I mean about my statement and the army infantry. To be sure you're clear, it's this poster who was in the army infantry and previously in the ROTC. So perhaps my statement to you about being more careful concerning who you try to patronize when you don't know the person is now a bit more clear to you. However, I'm still not sure you comprehend as you appear to be lost in the matter..

Meanwhile,

Timeline: Zimmerman’s reports involving suspicious activity in neighborhood

On August 4, 2011, Zimmerman submitted his first report to the Sanford Police Department about a suspicious black male walking around in the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood, where he served as a neighborhood watch captain.

The next day, Zimmerman called the department again, reporting another suspicious black male lurking in the area.

On October 6 of that year, Zimmerman called in a third report, again alerting authorities to a suspicious black male.

On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called in a similar report to the department.

“According to all records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat at Twins Lakes neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects in the matter,” the Sanford Police Department said in a statement after Martin was killed.

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

[rsokolowski]

Gi555'

Why do you deny the truth that surfaced in the Trial, Zimmerman was a trained MMA fighter he attended more than 156 sessions on MMA tactics and fighting.That is fact, His trainer said he was wimpy anyone can be brave holding a gun, and not everyone tells the truth.

He tried to bully Trayvon and show off his newly acquired MMA talent and was bested by a 17 year old boy, 38 lbs lighter than he with none of the MMA training was the one that the defense witnesses say that Trayvon was doing the grounding and pounding, they lied to save Zimmerman, Plain and simple, Nothing has changed in the Jim Crow south where a Black American was shot to death by a man that profiled him, followed him and shot him. You blood and guts backers of Zimmerman, never took into account Trayvon also had a right to self defense in the state of Florida.

Lost B.S. a battle but not the war!

Get over it, not by a long shot only when Zimmerman has paid his debt for the killing of Trayvon, by whatever means.

Cheers:

Great points. Except there was absolutely zero evidence (the fact that are needed during a trial) produced during the case that George Zimmerman did anything but call the police and follow the suspicious person (neither are illegal). The witnesses testimony did not support the supposition that George Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon Martin. Except for the bullet wound that killed him, Trayvon had no other injuries or anything to suggest that the fight was initiated by George Zimmerman.

It is possible that all the witnesses are lying, but all the evidence shows Trayvon Martin attacking George Zimmerman. It is your personal opinion and nothing more that leads you to believe who started the attack.

In any case the fight proceeded to a point were one of the participants feared for his life and defended himself. This is not my opinion, it is the opinion of the jury members that heard the evidence presented during the trial.

[F430murci]

Not guilty doesn't mean innocent. He is far from innocent.

Your actually wrong here. Most judges I have tried cases before and won have told my client whom I have successfully defended that they are innocent in the eyes of the law when a jury has returned a verdict in their favor. In fact, I cannot recall one not saying this.

Moreover, in criminal, you are dealing with innocent of until proven guilty. If not guilty verdict you are innocent and you remain innocent until guilty verdict.

[F430murci]

The scientific poll was taken at the time the trial began.

I was in the 62% at that time. Nothing the defense presented changed my mind.

CNN poll shows 62% of people believe Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter

http://wtvr.com/2013/06/24/the-zimmerman-trial-what-you-need-to-know/

Unfortunately, most people including most on here are absolutely clueless about the facts of the case and what the law actually is . . .

Edited July 15, 2013 by metisdead

[F430murci]

The reason they couldn't find him guilty is because of Florida law, they weren't allowed to consider Zimmerman's outrageous arrogance and recklessness in not listening to the 911 operator AND neglecting to openly ANNOUNCE who he was and what he was doing in following the dead boy victim. Based on those facts, Zimmerman has a lot actual culpability but that and the TECHNICALITIES of the law are separate matters.

Here's some backup of this. Not guilty according to the jury BUT morally culpable:

In the end, society must accept that there is not always a perfect fit between a criminal justice system and justice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ruth-marcus-zimmerman-verdict-in-martin-case-shows-justices-flaws/2013/07/14/7f7eae6a-ecc7-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424_story.html

Really, why must you continue to say things that are factually inaccurate and dishonest. I am just curious what motivates you to continue to make statements that are not only misguided and ill informed, but untrue. I have asked you to show me the differences in Florida law and any other state and I cited to you the applicable law and a survey that the law on self defense as applied was the same in 49 of 50 states. You just ignore reality and the truth and continue to blurt out absolute false statements. This is kind of like me blurting out over and over that the sky is red and the earth is flat.

[mopar71]

Those that say Trayvon was raining blows on Zimmerman, the Medical Examiner testified he found no evidence of injury to Trayvon's hands during his autopsy, indicated a minor abrasion to one hand that could have happened prior to the night he was killed.

Trayvon was reportedly quite the fighter. He could have easily been using a hammer fist strike or an open palm or a combination of both. Either strike causes very little damage to one's hands. Many experienced fighters avoid using their knuckles in a street fight as they can break easily.

Trayvon had no history of any type of specific self defense training, he could have been a hell of a school yard fighter but no training at all.

On the other hand Zimmerman was trained for over a year (3) times per week in "Ground and Pound" MMA combat fighting in that training you are taught how to fight off your back. During that year of training he lost 90 lbs and was in great physical shape, his Roly-Polly look now is not how he looked the night he shot Trayvon, he gain 100 lbs since the shooting!

I had quite an extensive life as a street fighter and a barroom brawler, I was fighting 30 year old cowboys in Arizona into my mid 60's, I never punch with a hammer fist strike, only broke my knuckles twice, my last fight was here in Pattaya when I fought 4 Thai's on Soi 8, and was stabbed in the left upper arm.

Zimmerman had 38 lb weight advantage and was a trained MMA Combat fighter., there is a world of difference in this fight, Zimmerman instigated the fight and his injuries the medical examiner testified they were minor and superficial.

Cheers:

I

If Zimmerman had such a large size advantage and had trained in MMA for 3 years, why weren't there any marks on Martin?

Edited July 15, 2013 by mopar71

[F430murci]

Mistakes were made on both sides (Zimmerman and Trayvon) that resulted in the death of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman probably should not have followed Trayvon (he was a neighborhood watch member), but if Trayvon had not assaulted George Zimmerman and tried to pound his brains out of his head on the cement sidewalk he would likely still be alive. George Zimmerman is here to tell his tale because he was legally carrying a concealed firearm, and used it in self defense.

Like it or not the jury believed that George Zimmerman had reason to fear for his life and use deadly force in self defense. This was supported by the evidence that was presented (Trayvon on top beating the crap out of Zimmerman on the bottom.

This case was a tragedy all around.

Yes. Exactly. Cooler heads and common sense prevail for once. Truly a tragedy, but the bigger tragedy is how numbskulls are trying to manipulate this case and misstating facts and law for some agenda that is not constructive for anybody.

I heard it all morning on a radio station I listen to and it seems the constant misstating of facts and law is for no other purpose to inflame and cause racial animosity. If not an improper purpose, then why keep misstating the facts and law over and over and over. I swear, some people just like to stir the <deleted> pot. Haha, I suppose I am pretty frickin stupid for caring what a bunch of people in a far away land care . . . I just hate to see our country shredded by ignorance.