Almost Heaved My Com Today, Krap!

[OldChinaHam]

Almost cut/shaved off all my hair,

Happened just today,

You could say it was in my way.

But I didn't and I still wonder why,

Just so feel like letting this Win Junk FLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

Out the window.

Please Listen To This, While You Read My Following Tale of Woe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4YpqRPLIWc

I returned from a very important AM conference this noon, and went straight to my little ASUS laptop, I was in the mood for some email messages, reading and sending.

But this Dang Com was Dead

Like it had The Flue For Christmas

I was not feeling up to par

Like looking in the mirror and seeing a Police Car.

When I finally got myself together, I pushed the off button to restart. Nothing Happened.

I felt like I always do when this happens, sunk among wooden ships on the water.

I began to unplug all cables to the ext monitor, the speakers the ext keyboard, and the mouse.

I got out my ASUS carrying case. And I put on my shoes.

Just for good measure, I hit the start button one more time.

Still no response.

But I noticed two tiny green lights about 1mm each in diameter were still aglow.

Maybe there is hope left I wondered, because sure as sugar I did not know what to do next.

Sure enough, this dang Windows 8 computer was in the process of updating!

For at least 20 minutes; and had not told me about it.

Well, I am getting just a bit tired of all this Windows updating Krap.

You know, the updating that requires a reboot, EVERY fng time.

I am basically a Linux user, when I am not in Thailand.

I have this new Win8 ASUS laptop, and I thought I liked it fairly well.

But this is about the last straw.

For LINUX/unix users, you know that while an update is going on, you never need to worry about stopping what you are doing on your computer, UNLESS you are also updating the kernel.

Question 1)() Why after decades, has Microsoft not figured out how to do all these updates that are needed WITHOUT asking me to stop working and re-fing-boot?

Question 2)() I know I can change windows update settings, but why should I need to?

I usually am not a Microsoft basher because this wastes time I could do other things.

But seriously, this time I thought my laptop had bombed. The dam_ thing would not let me use the power button to shut down and restart, the monitor was blank/black, and this piece of windows junk was completely unresponsive.

Seriously, I had felt my stomach caving in, and I was wondering where to go to fix the ASUS laptop or to send it back to Taiwan, or just send it out the window.

It is too late for me to install linux on this laptop now, I have too many things tweaked and setup, it would take me ages to install linux and then duplicate what is now on my Laptop.

3. So any thoughts or suggestions? And if the ASUS laptop bombs in Thailand, what do I do with it if I decide the window is still not yet the right option?

After this, I think I am emotionally in a bad way and need some support.

Thank you.

[OldChinaHam]

Sorry, forgot to mention one last question:

Have others who are using Windows 8 today noticed a major update which required much time to install?

My laptop was uptodate until sometime at noon, then whamo, the thing shut down and went blank like it was hibernating, only worse.

The laptop was about as alive as a stone.

So I was wondering why it took so long, and if any time consuming Win8 updates were scheduled for today?

[Chicog]

(1) You can choose how/when you apply Windows Updates. I've found .NET Framework to be the particularly slow ones, but this month there were an unusually large number of critical ones.

Go to Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Windows Update\Change settings

(2) If you choose to update when you don't need the PC for a while, it's not an issue.

(3) Win 8 won't require a reboot but will automagically do one after two days.

It isn't that big a deal if you know how it works.

[OldChinaHam]

(1) You can choose how/when you apply Windows Updates. I've found .NET Framework to be the particularly slow ones, but this month there were an unusually large number of critical ones.

Go to Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Windows Update\Change settings

(2) If you choose to update when you don't need the PC for a while, it's not an issue.

(3) Win 8 won't require a reboot but will automagically do one after two days.

It isn't that big a deal if you know how it works.

1) OK, Thank you, I think that most of us do understand that we have the option to choose when, even IF, we allow Windows to update automatically, or unattended, or if we wish to examine all updates before installing them. This is pretty standard stuff. (I just do not LIKE it because I do not need to worry about reboots when not using Windows)

2) BUT THIS IS more INTERESTING!

Please extrapolate on:

a. I want to set up Windows 8 so that it will NEVER EVER AGAIN reboot itself EVER unless I tell it to shut down. EXCEPT if it needs to install a new modified kernel.

b. I want to shut OFF, the function that makes Win8 automatically reboot every 2 days! What nonsense this seems, to me anyway. That was always one of the greatest things I miss about linux pc, is that the computer does not keep rebooting, driving me up the wall.

I realize that this is simple to many, but others like me, maybe do not know that all updates can be done without rebooting (If what you say is true). This will be welcome news, and I will thank you for telling me about this rather important change.

Again, thank you.

(I can't believe I have been tolerating this laptop rebooting all the time when I did not need to. The default setting should be NEVER REBOOT (but install updates) unless the computer is dying.)

[OldChinaHam]

Here is a webpage which explains how to stop the Win8 pc from rebooting:

http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-stop-windows-8-updates-from-force-restarting-your-pc/

The intro starts out like this:

"If you’re using Windows 8 and have performed the usual software updates, you’d have encountered the not-so-unfamiliar-anymore screen telling you that your PC will reboot in a certain amount of time to finish the updates. There’s nothing wrong with it, until you discover that you cannot prevent this automatic restart. So, if you’re in the middle of some important work, well, tough luck my friend. Thankfully, there are some ways to prevent this from happening, depending on which version of Windows you’re using."

Next, it tells you how to use a Local Group Policy Editor if you have the Pro version of Win8, or the Windows Registry Editor, to change the registry so the pc will not reboot.

I do not like that.

Why is there not an easier way?

Why did Microsoft set up the default so that the dam_ com keeps rebooting and driving us all MAD and BONKERS?

Seriously, this is NUTS

But here is why I will not change the registry at this date,

I do not have a backup computer in case anything goes "wrong" or if I make a typo. WHich I always do...

I have no backup computer with me in Thailand.

If I did, then no problem.

I just want a simple button which will tell the computer to do what my linux desktop does. DO NOT REBOOT when installing updates.

Is that so hard???

I am not the only one who feels this way.

No way.

But even if I do edit the registry,

I still would bet that this Win8 computer will find some way to reboot when I least expect it.

Rebooting is in the Windows blood.

Maybe Gates needed a reboot long ago, which he obviously did not get.

[hml367]

Something must be different with your computer. All 3 of my computers running Windows 8 Pro 64bit ask me if I want it to reboot automatically or reboot later.

Did you check your Windows Update Settings?

[OldChinaHam]

Something must be different with your computer. All 3 of my computers running Windows 8 Pro 64bit ask me if I want it to reboot automatically or reboot later.

Did you check your Windows Update Settings?

Thank you very much for pointing this out.

This is exactly what I am BEEFING ABOUT!

I am saying that I want to keep installing the updates.

BUT

I DO NOT WANT TO REBOOT E V E R until I need to install a new kernel or update the kernel for some reason, which would not bother me because this is normal with a linux distro every year or two years, perhaps, or if you want to install a virtual machine, or something.

But, I DO NOT want to have my pc reboot EVER unless this happens.

For some reason Microsoft thinks that all its users are HAPPY with the status quo. And I guess they may be.

But I am not.

Anyway, hml367 thank you for your comment here, and helping me to point out what I am harping on.

Did I read your comment correctly? Or maybe I misread it. Anyway, Tks.

[Chicog]

When they release critical updates, it's normally to fix a security hole. These holes are open until you reboot. Even Linux requires the occasional reboot after certain updates.

I can't see what the fuss is all about.

[jpinx]

Buy a mac ??

[hml367]

What Chicog said.....

Do you run your computer 24/7 without shutting down?

[hml367]

What Chicog said.....

Do you run your computer 24/7 without shutting down?

[jpinx]

What Chicog said.....

Do you run your computer 24/7 without shutting down?

He probably does -- as do I. Various reasons -- big downloads overnight is a common one on my slow connection, also doing some heavy lifting in local file maintenance.

Difference is that I run on Linux - so no sweat to run 24/7

[OldChinaHam]

What Chicog said.....

Do you run your computer 24/7 without shutting down?

YES, definitely.

There is no reason to shut down the pc, is there?

I don't move it from where the laptop sits, I never unplug it and the power stays on until we have a power failure.

The only reason I sometimes have to shut down is when the wifi goes nuts and I cannot fix it without a reboot,

Or if the audio driver in win8 sometimes goes nuts and suddenly the driver needs a reboot before working again.

But would I wish to turn off the pc? NO, there is no reason for me to want to shut down just reboot and waste time.

My linux computers I kept running until the motherboards blew up (capacitors usually because I was in salt air without aircon)

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

windows sneaks updates on to your computer whether you turn updates off or not

[hml367]

What Chicog said.....

Do you run your computer 24/7 without shutting down?

YES, definitely.

There is no reason to shut down the pc, is there?

I don't move it from where the laptop sits, I never unplug it and the power stays on until we have a power failure.

The only reason I sometimes have to shut down is when the wifi goes nuts and I cannot fix it without a reboot,

Or if the audio driver in win8 sometimes goes nuts and suddenly the driver needs a reboot before working again.

But would I wish to turn off the pc? NO, there is no reason for me to want to shut down just reboot and waste time.

My linux computers I kept running until the motherboards blew up (capacitors usually because I was in salt air without aircon)

It sounds to me like you should put Linux on the computer you are complaining about and your problems should be solved.

I didn't like Linux myself. More power to the people that do like it. Windows works for me.

People may try to help you with how they use Windows, but if you just keep complaining about Windows you will probably end up with only the Windows/Microsoft haters replying.

Good luck!

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

duplicate

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

duplicate

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

windows sneaks updates on to your computer whether you turn updates off or not.

i spent 3 hours yesterday looking for a registry hack to allow my network media player to access the share it has been using for 2 years, all because of a sneaky update i did not install.

[OldChinaHam]

When they release critical updates, it's normally to fix a security hole. These holes are open until you reboot. Even Linux requires the occasional reboot after certain updates.

I can't see what the fuss is all about.

1) I will take your word for it that linux needs to reboot for certain non-kernel related updates. (But maybe these updates you mention ARE actually kernel updates?)

Normally I keep my linux computers set to automatically download and install updates at any old time, although 3AM might be a good choice, but the time does not matter to me because there is no interruption in computer operation.

The linux computer just stays on, and only shuts down when there is a power failure and the UPS runs out of juice.

2) For me, this is a BIG DEAL because I just hate having to reboot in the middle of a download or other work, or just because with a properly designed OS, this should not be required.

But thanks for any input you have provided.

It really is true that this noon, when the computer was like a rock and completely dead to the world,

It was a shocker and I thought I needed to find ASUS service in Thailand. Maybe no small feat in itself.

Tks.

[OldChinaHam]

What Chicog said.....

Do you run your computer 24/7 without shutting down?

Again, hml, thank you.

But again, I do not shut down my computer.

And I want to update my comptuer.

I want the updates to take effect without shutting down and restarting my pc?

So do you think this is clear?

No shutdowns IF no new kernel change

Yes I want updates

Yes I want patches of security holes

JUST LIKE LINUX

Thank you, krap!

[jpinx]

When they release critical updates, it's normally to fix a security hole. These holes are open until you reboot. Even Linux requires the occasional reboot after certain updates.

I can't see what the fuss is all about.

1) I will take your word for it that linux needs to reboot for certain non-kernel related updates. (But maybe these updates you mention ARE actually kernel updates?)

Normally I keep my linux computers set to automatically download and install updates at any old time, although 3AM might be a good choice, but the time does not matter to me because there is no interruption in computer operation.

The linux computer just stays on, and only shuts down when there is a power failure and the UPS runs out of juice.

2) For me, this is a BIG DEAL because I just hate having to reboot in the middle of a download or other work, or just because with a properly designed OS, this should not be required.

But thanks for any input you have provided.

It really is true that this noon, when the computer was like a rock and completely dead to the world,

It was a shocker and I thought I needed to find ASUS service in Thailand. Maybe no small feat in itself.

Tks.

I've never found linux needs a reboot except for a new kernel. My eeepc netbook runs on linux 24/7 - I rebooted recently when I upgraded the kernel for the first time in 2 years. It's been off in between because of power issues/battery going flat, but never for a OS issue. When I lived in Peru I had a desktop machine that ran linux for 22 months with no reboot - and it was running virtual machines with windows XP to satisfy the needs of the luddites in the house........

I'll get my coat now,.........

[jpinx]

duplicate post removed

[NanLaew]

The OP keeps talking about a new kernel.

That's linux speak.

Win 8 no have.

Win 8 needs to reboot TO COMPLETE AND INSTALL most updates. It is the nature of the beast. Here's a clue; it aint linux.

Better get a linux machine as MS aint gonna change the way it handles updates (and reboots) right now.

[OldChinaHam]

The OP keeps talking about a new kernel.

That's linux speak.

Win 8 no have.

Win 8 needs to reboot TO COMPLETE AND INSTALL most updates. It is the nature of the beast. Here's a clue; it aint linux.

Better get a linux machine as MS aint gonna change the way it handles updates (and reboots) right now.

That's OK. Thank you for the information told like it is.

NOW PLEASE, I am still wondering, if I do change the settings on the Win8 pc, can I change the settings so that the computer will not reboot unless it needs to update its kernel or hybrid kernel? (or not)

Here is why I ask:

NT kernel[edit]

The Windows NT operating system family's architecture consists of two layers (user mode andkernel mode), with many different modules within both of these layers.

The best known example of a hybrid kernel is the Microsoft NT kernel that powers all operating systems in the Windows NT family, up to and including Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012, and powers Windows Phone 8. NT-based Windows is classified as a hybrid kernel (or a macrokernel^[2]) rather than a monolithic kernel because the emulation subsystems run in user-mode server processes, rather than in kernel mode as on a monolithic kernel, and further because of the large number of design goals which resemble design goals of Mach (in particular the separation of OS personalities from a general kernel design). Conversely, the reason NT is not a microkernel system is because most of the system components run in the same address space as the kernel, as would be the case with a monolithic design (in a traditional monolithic design, there would not be a microkernel per se, but the kernel would implement broadly similar functionality to NT's microkernel and kernel-mode subsystems).

[OldChinaHam]

But just in case some here might think I am making a mountain out of my Win8 mole hill,

Here is a blurb from INFO WORLD, which might shed some light on this sticky wicket.

Seems I am not the only one that often thinks about chucking my mole hill out the Window

PLEASE notice the start of this article which states "OBSCURE SETTING"

Yeah, that is what I have been saying, this setting is too OBSCURE for my tastes:

Obscure setting gives users more control over Windows auto-reboots Windows has nasty habit of rebooting at worst moments. But new registry entry -- not mentioned by Microsoft -- lets users take control

Microsoft can't get rebooting right. In the early days of Windows XP, automatically applied security patches forced an immediate reboot. If you were gullible enough to turn on Windows Automatic Update or if your admin tossed an update down the pike over WSUS, you could come back from a coffee break and discover your work had disappeared.

Times have changed (a bit) for the better. Yesterday, as part of April's Black Tuesday, Microsoft released a patch that gives Windows 8 users a little more control over how and when Windows reboots. Too bad Microsoft forgot to mention that change in the patch's KB article.

When Microsoft first unleashed Automatic Updates, a security patch installation more often than not would automatically force a reboot. Just about every XP user I know has horror stories about leaving their PCs unattended for a few minutes or overnight and returning to discover all of their unsaved documents had been trashed, their browser sessions irretrievably lost, and/or massive copies or downloads summarily abandoned because of an auto-reboot.

Vista and Windows 7 learned some manners, but they too had a nasty habit of rebooting at the wrong time. Win7 puts a message on your screen inviting you to "Restart your computer to finish installing important updates." If you ignore the message or aren't around to handle it, the message keeps coming back periodically for up to four hours. After four hours, if you haven't responded to the message, Win7 throws in the towel and automatically restarts.

Nowadays, rebooting isn't as traumatic as it used to be. Most programs are smart enough to save backup copies of files, and all the major browsers can be resumed after a crash. That said, downloads and copying still die and they don't come back.

Responding to users' sustained screams of pain, Microsoft built Windows 8 to be very different -- infuriatingly so to some people. Here's how Microsoft puts it:

After you install an important update in Windows 8, you receive a notice that you have to restart the PC in three days. If the restart does not occur in three days, the PC displays a 15-minute countdown and then automatically restarts. By default, this automatic restart is delayed if the PC is locked, and the countdown will begin the next time that you sign in to the PC.

[OldChinaHam]

The more you look, the the more you find about the dislike most feel for Windows reboots.

I had not looked before, because I was not so much affected in the past. But here is another article

pointing up the disaffection felt for the Win8 powers that be who decide these matters:

"Windows 8 will still automatically reboot your PC, but it will be nicer about it, says Microsoft

There is nothing worse than Windows 7 automatically restarting your PC when you’re not around, but it does it all the time. Windows Updates are frequently downloaded, but often cannot complete installation until your PC is completely restarted. Instead of asking, Windows 7 just says it’s going to reboot your PC in a few minutes and starts a countdown clock. Manually, you can delay this process if you happen to be at your computer (for up to 4 hours), but if you stepped away to do anything, you could lose everything you’ve been working on. It’s both intrusive and scary, but Microsoft insists that it’s an important feature. With Windows 8, the team is making a few improvements to the system.

In a lengthy blog post, Farzana Rahman, the group program manager for Windows Update, explained that Updates will wait until the big monthly Security update to force a reboot of your Windows 8 machine, meaning it will still have to be restarted once every month. However, instead of giving no warning and just shutting everything down, a notification will appear on the Windows log in screen for three days, asking you to restart or it will do it automatically. When a restart is forced, applications will be able to save their state better as well. We assume this means Microsoft will begin mandating the log in screen. Currently, though widely adopted, it is an optional feature.

Rahman also took a moment to explain that Windows Update will not begin serving all third party application updates because Microsoft doesn’t have the resources to thoroughly vet every single app update in the world. Much like iOS, Android, and Windows Phone, Windows 8 will have an app store that developers can use which has a built-in updating feature, allowing all publishers to push out app updates to users.

The automatic restarting has helped about 90 percent of PCs regularly get important security updates, claims Microsoft. Still, it’s annoying that a lot of software can be installed on a machine without rebooting now, but almost every Microsoft program or update requires a full restart. You would think Microsoft software would be the easiest and most seamless to install. After all, Microsoft makes the OS. "

Sorry about the above blurb formatting.

Hope it will correct itself in posting.

[OldChinaHam]

Here is another opinion from a Microsoft Man mentioned in the above blurb:

"When it comes to Windows Update, one of the most discussed topics is the disruptiveness of restarts in the course of automatic updating. And for good reason—restarts can interrupt you right in the middle of something important.

The obvious question to ask first is why does the installation of updates even require a restart at all? Ideally, we would like all update installations to happen seamlessly in the background without a restart. But, in reality, there are situations where the installer is not able to update files because they are in use. In these cases, we need to restart your machine to complete the installation. The automatic updating experience thus needs to be able to handle cases where restarts are required.

We know this architectural challenge is one that frustrates administrators and end-users alike, but it does represent the state of the art for Windows. It is important to understand that for many updates, even if you could continue running the existing code that is already in memory, it is that very code that is a security vulnerability (for example), so the risk to the security (or reliability) of the machine would remain until you restart your machine. We'll keep working on this one. In the meantime, applications that support the Windows Restart Manager (introduced in Windows Vista) can return you to precisely where you left off after a restart.

In this blog, I want to talk about some of the improvements we are making to the automatic updating experience in Windows 8, which will make restarts a little less annoying."

A little less annoying he says?

I wish he could have been with me today to see how unannoyed his new fix has made us consumers.

[Chicog]

some here might think I am making a mountain out of my Win8 mole hill

That's because you are. You've been told how to turn off automatically installing updates. Do it when it suits you and stop whinging. It is what it is.

Go to Linux and eventually it will ask you to reboot too.

Or just don't update and risk the consequences.

It's not rocket science and this thread has already gone on far too long.