Thai/Australian refused entry to the UK

[Jay Sata]

I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a friend who has a Thai spouse.

She has a 'friend' who came to the UK five years ago on a tourist visa.

Miss X is young and good looking and overstayed her visa by 18 months while earning enough to build a hotel in Thailand.

She decided to confess to her overstay and was returned to Thailand.

She then met an Aussie guy and now lives with him in Australia. I understand she has an Aussie passport.

She turned up at Heathrow a few days ago on on a flight from Sydney was was apprehended by immigration.

She was refused entry and returned to Australia.

So the question I want to ask is there a blacklist of overstayers in the UK and what impact will her return being refused entry have in Oz?

[David48]

An Australian perspective ...

If she has an Australian Passport, no impact with her Australian return.

Our (Australian) poor skills to have not weeded her out earlier.

I'll let the Poms comment re the UK.

.

[Jay Sata]

I forgot to mention she planned to spend 6 weeks in the UK and was very annoyed to be spending a night in a cell at Heathrow.

I must admit I'd be unhappy having done the trip from Sydney and paid for a ticket only having to go back the next day.

The story reminded me of the those Border Force/Border Patrol tv shows.

She was deported on a Thai passport around 6 years ago so how did they link that issue to her new Aussie passport?

Seems to me our team on UK immigration are on the ball.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Jay Sata

[I Like Thai]

Her previous visit, working whilst on an overstay will most likely have been a factor.

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/United_Kingdom

The British Government administers a very strict entry regime and you are likely to be refused entry upon arrival if you fail to comply with visa requirements. If you are suspected of intending to work in the UK, but enter as a tourist, you could be refused entry. The British Government considers both paid and unpaid working arrangements to be work and a relevant visa is required if you intend to undertake any form of work in the United Kingdom. Australian travellers refused entry into the United Kingdom may be required to return to Australia. There is also a risk that other countries may also refuse admission on the basis of the British Government's decision, which in all cases is recorded in the traveller's passport.

The UK Border Agency advises that if you are refused entry into the United Kingdom then you will be informed in writing of the reasons why you have been refused entry; if you have a right of appeal; and when you will be removed from the United Kingdom. The UK Border Agency advises that if you have the right to appeal, you will be given details of who you should contact.

[simple1]

Even giving yourself up voluntarily for overstay still means you are banned from re-entering the UK for a period of time. Potentially her occupation whilst in the UK had further ramifications. As an overstayer, when departing the UK, personal details are captured and kept on an EU member countries shared database for border control.

Edited July 22, 2013 by simple1

[Tony M]

The easiest way to know what happened is to ask what is written on the Refusal of Leave to Enter form. That will show if she was refused because of her immigration history, or for another reason. Anything else is just speculation.

[Jay Sata]

I understand it was because of her previous overstay. I'm still puzzled as to how she would have been identified as her Aussie passport must have

a different surname. Apparently she was apprehended at the passport desk by two officers so they were alert to her being on the flight.

I was not aware overstaying in the UK affects travel to other countries.

[simple1]

I understand it was because of her previous overstay. I'm still puzzled as to how she would have been identified as her Aussie passport must have

a different surname. Apparently she was apprehended at the passport desk by two officers so they were alert to her being on the flight.

I was not aware overstaying in the UK affects travel to other countries.

Depending on the level of technology at border control they can access iCase notes made on the records of the previous passport and the current passport to identify the link between name changes.

Edited July 23, 2013 by simple1

[7by7]

Sorry, Tony, but I'm going to speculate a little.

In these days of computer records and biometrics, tracing a person through name changes and even nationality changes is fairly easy.

Her biometrics would be on record in the UK as an overstayer and changing her name and using a different nationality's passport wont change those.

Scanning her Australian passport would throw this record up.

Overstaying or otherwise breaking one's visa conditions in one country can definitely have an adverse effect when applying for a visa for, or attempting to enter, another country. One example being the Schengen Information System.

NB, although both the UK and the RoI are not members of the Schengen Area, they are members of the SIS.

[Jay Sata]

The other question is if the Aussie/Thai woman I mentioned was on an overstayers list surely it would have made more sense to have it flagged up at check in thereby avoiding the hassle of allowing her to travel to the UK.

Edited July 24, 2013 by theoldgit
Off topic comment removed.

[Will27]

Unless I'm missing something, it just seems like it's a clear case of someone

trying to enter a country where there is a ban in place.

She thought she'd do a shonk and get through on a new passport.

She was picked up by UK Immigration.

You mention that she was annoyed at being detained overnight.

I'd be more upset if I was the Aussie husband, and the holiday being

ruined (assuming she was traveling with him).

It's nothing to do with the check in staff apart from the fact to make sure she has

a valid visa.

Her being refused entry into the UK has no ramifications in Australia.

IMO, she got what she deserved.

[theoldgit]

This thread is in respect of a Thai person who was refused entry to the UK, detained overnight and returned, not EU or American Nationals, Royal Babies or sporting achievements, as a result a number of posts have been removed.

Please keep on topic.

[7by7]

The other question is if the Aussie/Thai woman I mentioned was on an overstayers list surely it would have made more sense to have it flagged up at check in thereby avoiding the hassle of allowing her to travel to the UK.

It's nothing to do with the check in staff apart from the fact to make sure she has

a valid visa.

Indeed.

I stand to be corrected, but I doubt very much that the airline check in staff have access to the databases used by national immigration authorities anyway.

Mr Sata,

Considering your numerous comments elsewhere about illegals, overstayers etc, you surely must agree with Will27 when he says

she got what she deserved.

[David48]

This thread is in respect of a Thai person who was refused entry to the UK, detained overnight and returned, not EU or American Nationals, Royal Babies or sporting achievements, as a result a number of posts have been removed.

Please keep on topic.

Sorry ... one of those was mine ...

.

[pattayadingo]

Do Aussie passports have a data chip in them as UK passports do? This can store the data needed.

[Jay Sata]

Yes I agree she got what she deserved.

There is more to this story but it does not need to be discussed here.

Her Aussie husband was back home and I think she had plans that extended further than seeing friends for six weeks.

No doubt she'll have used the 24 hours return trip to engineer an excuse for her rapid return.

What puzzles me is how this system worked well on this occasions but often fails to detect serious criminals from

other countries including the EU entering the UK.

As an aside does anyone know if Thailand can identify people with more than one passport or are they logged as separate people?

edited for typo

Edited July 24, 2013 by Jay Sata

[Naam]

Do Aussie passports have a data chip in them as UK passports do? This can store the data needed.

no need for a chip with biometrics. first name, maiden name, date of birth and place of birth are parameters to find a person in a database within seconds.

[Naam]

As an aside does anyone know if Thailand can identify people with more than one passport or are they logged as separate people?

of course, see principle above except "maiden name" if person is male.

[theoldgit]

The UKBA do have a network of Airline Liaison Managers stationed at some overseas transit hubs, including Bangkok, their role is to train and assist carriers in identifying passengers without proper documentation, and whilst they don't have the authority to instruct carriers to deny boarding, they do have access to the flights manifesto.

It would seem that this lady was properly documented and thus was allowed to board, I suspect that her details were flagged up from the Advance Passenger Information supplied by the airlines.

Quite often passengers who are refused landing are given temporary admission and required to return in a day or so, so maybe this lady was regarded as a flight risk.

There are Short Term Holding Centres at a number of airports, it would seem there is more used being made of them.

If anything it does remind us that possession of a valid visa doesn't guarantee admission to the UK.

[Naam]

If anything it does remind us that possession of a valid visa doesn't guarantee admission to the UK.

do Australian citizens need a visa to enter UK?

[Jay Sata]

Not for a holiday.

[Ace of Pop]

If anything it does remind us that possession of a valid visa doesn't guarantee admission to the UK.

do Australian citizens need a visa to enter UK?

NowYes. Years ago before they got flooded out by Non Brits ,they didnt..

[David48]

Do Aussie passports have a data chip in them as UK passports do? This can store the data needed.

They do now.

Generally, Aussie Passports are for 10 years, so they are slowly being 'chipped up'.

My old one didn't, but the new one does have the data chip.

.

[Jay Sata]

If you are coming to the UK for a short visit (up to 6 months), you generally do not need a visa.

However, you should bring documents with you to show our immigration officers when you arrive at the UK border.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/view/visa.form

[Arkady]

Hats off to the UKBA for apprehending this lady and ensuring she was put on a flight out of the country after a well deserved night in the cells. She knowingly violated the terms of her British visa and has to accept the consequences of breaking UK law, no matter how many times she marries another farang and assumes a new nationality and identity. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to guess that Immigration services need to have technology to detect international criminals using different names and nationalities.

[Basil B]

Seems now having dual nationality she did not have to apply for a visa which she would have been refused saving a wasted trip, I am sure that when she was removed from the UK she would have had an Automatic 10 year ban.

How UKBA found out I am not sure unless all those from outside the UK have to submit to a biometrics (fingerprint scanner) check at port of entry, but I am aware of one instance where UKBA boarded a plane as soon as they opened the airplane doors (they had flight and seat number) and detained an American who was married to a Brit and this was for abusing the time spent in the UK under the 6 months out 12 rule/guidance. and at the time they were not subject to a ban.

Earning enough to build a hotel even in Thailand is a lot of money, if she had not paid tax or NI then I do not feel sorry for her, but there again in Britain this is not a one-way thing, plenty of Brits leave the UK and work in other countries and avoid paying taxes and other dues.

I am not sure how true but one still thinks of the old jokes about II's turning up at a Police station when they want to go home, (free ticket courtesy of the British Taxpayer), may be the should also be given a bill for Estimated back taxes, accommodation, flight tickets, etc., and told even after 10 years they can not come back to the UK until the bill + interest is paid off.

[7by7]

If anything it does remind us that possession of a valid visa doesn't guarantee admission to the UK.

do Australian citizens need a visa to enter UK?

If you are coming to the UK for a short visit (up to 6 months), you generally do not need a visa.

However, you should bring documents with you to show our immigration officers when you arrive at the UK border.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/view/visa.form

Visa nationals require a visa to enter the UK for any period and any purpose. Non visa nationals do not require a visa to enter the UK for periods of up to 6 months as general or family visitors; they do require one to enter for longer than 6 months or for any other purpose.

For example, Thais are visa nationals; Australians are not.

This woman obviously thought that as she had an Australian passport and so didn't need a visit visa that she would be able to waltz in without a problem despite her previous overstay using her Thai passport.

She was wrong.

[bobrussell]

If this is an indication of the way things are going with Border Control then there is hope for us all!

If the rest of the 'UKBA' workload is handled with the same efficiency then we will have a system to be proud of! Failure to follow the rules should have consequences and clearly it did here. Quite right too IMO.

I am sure it is recommended somewhere (I will look later) that anyone with an adverse immigration history should apply for a visa. If this had been done she would either have been able to argue her case or save the flight cost!

Edit: It does say on the UKBA website that anyone with a criminal record or have been refused entry to the UK before 'might want to obtain a visa before you travel'. No sympathy from me I am afraid!

Edited July 25, 2013 by bobrussell

[tw25rw]

She would have had the same first name, DOB and birthplace. The computer would have thrown her up complete with photo for the immigration officer to review.

[Jay Sata]

All of the above replies are spot on.

This tales goes back several years.

She was here on a tourist visa but with an expired passport. The story is more complicated but some of her friends were involved in a passport scam. Genuine spouse visa holders were 'renting' their passports at £1,000 a time. These were posted to Thailand and and Singapore.

Third parties were then entering the UK to be 'bonded' in massage parlours. The ringleader got 7 years custody a Leicester Crown Court.

The person who was refused entry got out while the heat was on and met and married an Australian guy.