UK family visit visa - proof of relationship

[Pietr S]

Hello, I'm new. I did search the forum for answers to my questions but nothing I found seemed to apply exactly. So here goes:

I am British. My wife is Thai, and we have two children: 6-year-old twins. She previously had a settlement visa, but this expired in January, so she left at that time. Her English language skills are very poor so she was unable to take the Knowledge of Life test. She suffers from an anxiety disorder and depression, which meant she was also unable to join a course - she was enrolled in an ESOL with Citizenship course, but she only managed to attend for one day. She is happy with an arrangement where she can visit the UK for, say 4-5 months per year during winter and then we visit Thailand for the long school holidays since she dislikes the UK anyway. Her main concern is for the education of our kids. We will go to Thailand shortly for the holidays and the plan is for her to come back with us on 1 Sep and stay till just after Christmas. So, she will need to apply for the family visit visa soon. My main areas of concern are as follows:

1. Although we are married and lived together in Hong Kong between 2002 and late 2010 and then in the UK from Jan 2011 until Jan 2013 we have virtually no evidence of our relationship other than our children's birth certificates, lots of stamps in our passports showing we travelled on the same dates (though none in the last couple of years), and the fact that she had 2 previous family visit visas (2007 & 2008) when we visited my family, and her UK settlement Visa. We don't have many photos of us together - almost all our photos are either of her and the kids (because I took the pics) or me and the kids (because she took the pics), She didn't have any bank accounts here, and we never had anything in joint names except the council tax bill. Since January we have been in touch almost daily using Facetime and Tango: no IDD phone calls. Hence I worry that the immigration authorities may question our relationship. I wonder whether it is possible for us to say that she is visiting our children, rather than me, and that she will live in my house (which I own and has ample space) ?

2. I worry about demonstrating that she will return her visit. She has around 3 million baht in the bank (in her own name) and has had for years, and owns a 3 bedroom detached house and a building containing 5 bed-sits that she rents out. She works in the family business, but she does not receive a regular salary and the business is not in her name. Would it make much/any difference if she was a joint owner of the business ? Is there any point in her mum (the business owner) writing a letter saying that she does work in the business, is allowed to go to the UK, and is also needed back again after her visit ? Does the fact that she previously returned from the UK with no overstay help ?

If anyone can advise on these matters I would be very grateful ? Also should I worry about anything else ?

Many thanks
PS

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Without knowing full details ( and you have indeed given a lot of information ) it's not possible to give a definitive yes or no. From what you say, I think there is a very good chance of getting a visit visa issued.

Can I ask why you didn't apply for an exemption from the ESOL test for your wife if she was unable to study or take the test ? Guidance says :

Exemption because of disability

If you have a long-standing, permanent disability which prevents you from learning English, you may be exempt from the KOL requirement. To be exempt, you must:

• be suffering from a long-term illness or disability that severely restricts your mobility and ability to attend language classes; or
• have a mental impairment which means that you are unable to learn another language.

When you apply for settlement, you should send us evidence from a medical practitioner confirming your disability.

Tony M

[Pietr S]

Thanks Tony

We did explore the possibility of exemption, however we were advised that we had to have a UK medical practitioner write the letter, and since she is treated by a psychiatrist in Thailand (in fact as an outpatient at a government psychiatric hospital), not in the UK, this was problematic. Her UK GP did offer to write a letter stating that they were aware that she was being treated by a psychiatrist in Thailand and the medications she was taking could interfere with her ability to learn, we were told that it had to be much more explicit and the GP was unwilling to do that without a full psychiatric assessment, which itself would have been difficult because of the need for an interpreter. They did have an interpreter on the phone at one point but it was extremely difficult to make any headway. The GP said they would have to refer the case to a UK psychiatrist which would take time, and since this was in November, with her visa expiring in Jan, coupled with her feeling very uncomfortable and stressed being interviewed in this way, we didn't pursue it further.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Pietr S

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Okay. If you have that documented, then it will be useful for any visit visa application.

If we can assist in any way, give Paul a call at the office.

Tony M

[Pietr S]

Thanks again. Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it be counter-productive to emphasise this, as it might lead the immigration officials to think that she wants to remain in the UK, whereas the truth of the matter is that she dislikes the UK and only wishes to visit for a few months at a time ? Even when she had the settlement visa she could only take it here for a few months at a time - I think the longest period she was here for was about 7 months - she went back to Thailand 4 times during the 2 years she was here on the settlement visa.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

No, it wouldn't be counter-productive at all. It actually depends how the application is put together, and the application must be a truthful record of why your wife is no longer in the UK, etc. Not mentioning it at all would lead the ECO to question the matter anyway.

Tony M

[Pietr S]

Thanks again Tony

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to avail myself of a professional visa immigration advisor at this point. I might try to talk my wife into it, but at the moment I'd just like to get as much advice on this thread as possible.

Can anyone comment on the points of concern in my original post ?

[7by7]

Proof of relationship.

You have your marriage certificate and your children's birth certificates. She has also been issued family visit visas and a settlement visa as your wife. Difficult for the ECO to now say the relationship is not real!

Reason to return.

You need to explain in your sponsor's letter why she does not wish to live with her husband and children in the UK. You should also make it clear that you both understand that she will only be able to spend a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit and no more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK.

That last is not a hard and fast rule, more of a convention. But saying you understand this will, I think, help to dispel any doubts the ECO may have about her intentions.

[2yearvisitvisa]

You should also make it clear that you both understand that she will only be able to spend a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit and no more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK.

Why do you persist in pushing this untruth and frightening posters? What's wrong with you?

[7by7]

I am not "pushing this untruth and frightening posters."

Although it is not a rule, as I made clear in my post but you missed out of your quote, it is a convention and very relevant in the OP's situation.

He needs to make it clear that his wife is not attempting to use visit visas to by pass the settlement rules.

I have posted this link to and quote from the ECGs before, maybe you should read it.

VAT1.5 Frequency and duration of visits

There is no Rule that states a visitor can only remain in the UK for 6 out of any 12 months, but an ECO must examine the pattern and frequency of visits to see that it does not amount to de facto residence.

The same instruction is in the IDI's, except where the above says 'ECO' the IDIs say 'IO.'

[Tony M]

You should also make it clear that you both understand that she will only be able to spend a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit and no more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK.

Why do you persist in pushing this untruth and frightening posters? What's wrong with you?

I don't understand. Where is the untruth ?