EXPAT: Opening up a small restaurant in BKK - ADVICE PLS! :)

[Seb Bu]

Dear members!

I have some questions concerning a small business idea me and a friend have.

We would like to open up a small restaurant in BKK but the following questions would need to be answered beforehand:

- Can u hold a business without a working permit? If u´re just the owner (administrator)?

- What are the legislations to obtain a working permit? Costs? Possible under student-status?

- How does the ownership work exactly? Especially if u don´t want Thais to have a vote in the business? Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot!!

Seb Bu

[lemoncake]

- Can u hold a business without a working permit? If u´re just the owner (administrator)?

Yes you can, but admin is also work, so if say police see you shaking hands with customers, they could consider that as working

- What are the legislations to obtain a working permit? Costs? Possible under student-status?

For work permit you need to have a company with registered capital of 2 million baht per foreigner and 4 thai staff per foreigner(these are just the basics). Costs vary on paperwork and "complications" can be 25K more or less, must have Non B visa

- How does the ownership work exactly? Especially if u don´t want Thais to have a vote in the business? Any suggestions?

Unless you American, it does not work, you must have Thai share holders, It does not mean they active or do anything, but must be in the company(law firm can set it all up)

Edited July 25, 2013 by lemoncake

[Seb Bu]

Thanks a lot!

By any chance, do u have some good resources regarding the ownership status and work-permit legislations?

[lemoncake]

Thanks a lot!

By any chance, do u have some good resources regarding the ownership status and work-permit legislations?

I think if you search Thai visa you will finds many topics about all of it.

I do not have any links at hand, but would strongly recommend using a lawyer or accountant firm to handle all, as things can get very annoying, costly and time consuming.

I let my lawyer and accountant to set it all up and renew all yearly for modest fee, without any headache or stress for me

[Farma]

Thanks a lot!

By any chance, do u have some good resources regarding the ownership status and work-permit legislations?

Thailand business and legal guide

http://bia.serverbox.net/003.html

[Seb Bu]

Thanks to both of u for the quick reply!

One question correlated to the ownership: How are things managed if for instance u wanna launch a language school?

Obvious that ur staff can´t b dominated by Thais, right?

[NCC1701A]

Thanks to both of u for the quick reply!

One question correlated to the ownership: How are things managed if for instance u wanna launch a language school?

Obvious that ur staff can´t b dominated by Thais, right?

Make sure the Thais speak the language you want to teach

[lemoncake]

Thanks to both of u for the quick reply!

One question correlated to the ownership: How are things managed if for instance u wanna launch a language school?

Obvious that ur staff can´t b dominated by Thais, right?

Good question and the answer is "have no idea" lol

Perhaps this is why most English schools owned or operated by foreigners mainly teach Thai and some English

For every 4 Thai Teachers, have 1 English Teacher or may be have an exclusion. or perhaps the reason why most English teachers do not have WP, unless working for large school or uni

[hanno]

Hmm Seb Bu, it would appear you do not have much of a business plan, going from restaurant to English school. I have worked in hospitality for 30 years and guess that for every successful restaurant there are 30 that fail. Why? Because people assume that running a restaurant is easy. Just my take.

[lemoncake]

Hmm Seb Bu, it would appear you do not have much of a business plan, going from restaurant to English school. I have worked in hospitality for 30 years and guess that for every successful restaurant there are 30 that fail. Why? Because people assume that running a restaurant is easy. Just my take.

I do not think he is planning to run a school, his question is more about a set up.

And he is right, how can English schools have English teachers(foreigners) legally, when there are hardly any Thai staff

[Timwin]

Surest way to lose money in Thailand, open up a new restaurant. Especially, if you do not have any previous experience in restaurant business.

[robert888d]

MY ADVICE IS QUITE SIMPLE BUT SERIOUS DON'T DO IT !

[1FinickyOne]

just a word on business in general - a partnership is a mine field - everyone has fun talking abt how they will divide the profits, but rarely what would happen if one wants to sell out or there are large disagreements. You cannot anticipate every problem, but things rarely stay equal as to time and ability invested and rarely are these things considered in the agreement, which near always accentuates the positive... find a way to resolve or iron out problems before you start - - most partnerships end in dispute [sometimes even happens to marriages too]

[lemoncake]

Surest way to lose money in Thailand, open up a new restaurant. Especially, if you do not have any previous experience in restaurant business.

When did OP say he did not have experience?

Why is it that those who are not capable of achieving much themselves like to bring others down?

Do you have a restaurant? do you still have it? well i guess it can work then

If you do not have it anymore, just because you failed does not mean others would.

[isawasnake]

Surest way to lose money in Thailand, open up a new restaurant. Especially, if you do not have any previous experience in restaurant business.

Yet, the surest way to keep working your ass off the rest of your life is to never take a chance. Even if he fails, I am sure it will have made his next endeavor all that more likely to succeed. This world rewards the doers imo; the ones who do, get it wrong, do again, get it wrong, find a way to do it again, and voila.

[stoli]

Hmm Seb Bu, it would appear you do not have much of a business plan, going from restaurant to English school. I have worked in hospitality for 30 years and guess that for every successful restaurant there are 30 that fail. Why? Because people assume that running a restaurant is easy. Just my take.

I will follow up on this sage advice. If you do not know the restaurant business, I do, and you are going to get killed. Sorry, but that is how the business is. Everyone can make a hamburger, everyone can make Pad Thai, everyone can make eggs over easy. Take whatever money that you do not ever want to see again, and use that as your capital. I sure hope you listen.

Edited July 26, 2013 by stoli

[stoli]

Surest way to lose money in Thailand, open up a new restaurant. Especially, if you do not have any previous experience in restaurant business.

When did OP say he did not have experience?

Why is it that those who are not capable of achieving much themselves like to bring others down?

Do you have a restaurant? do you still have it? well i guess it can work then

If you do not have it anymore, just because you failed does not mean others would.

Lemoncake, I don't think anyone is trying to bring the OP down, but to wake him up. When you jump from wanting open a restaurant, to well maybe a language school, what is next? Maybe a hair salon? Maybe we are jumping to conclusions and maybe the OP has owned a restaurant, but I am betting my TV subscription the answer is no. Just trying to give helpful advice before someone loses a lot of money. Would be better off taking lessons on how to put your head in a crocodile's mouth. Less painful than a restaurant.

[lemoncake]

Surest way to lose money in Thailand, open up a new restaurant. Especially, if you do not have any previous experience in restaurant business.

When did OP say he did not have experience?

Why is it that those who are not capable of achieving much themselves like to bring others down?

Do you have a restaurant? do you still have it? well i guess it can work then

If you do not have it anymore, just because you failed does not mean others would.

Lemoncake, I don't think anyone is trying to bring the OP down, but to wake him up. When you jump from wanting open a restaurant, to well maybe a language school, what is next? Maybe a hair salon? Maybe we are jumping to conclusions and maybe the OP has owned a restaurant, but I am betting my TV subscription the answer is no. Just trying to give helpful advice before someone loses a lot of money. Would be better off taking lessons on how to put your head in a crocodile's mouth. Less painful than a restaurant.

See post 10

[rascalman]

Thanks a lot!

By any chance, do u have some good resources regarding the ownership status and work-permit legislations?

Buy gold or something. You will have to much competition, will lose your money!

[fxe1200]

MY ADVICE IS QUITE SIMPLE BUT SERIOUS DON'T DO IT !

That is the right answer. If you have no experience, are not aware of the competition around you (including their pricing), if you do not have a working marketing plan, a conservative financial plan, a long breath, forget about the legal circumstances, just do not do it. If you want to throw away your money, there is a small charity in Hat Yai, named View e.V. They are grateful, if they can catch some to pay the next school bills off.

Edited July 26, 2013 by fxe1200

[bangkokstick]

It is ridiculous to tell to someone that because he has no experience in this field he cannot run this business.

Except if he is retarded he can do his homework online and know everything he will need to know.

The ones who fail are usually not the smartest ones, but if you are not stupid you can do any kind of business, no need to listen to morons who have just been employees all their life and have only waited for their retirement money to become independent !

Edited July 26, 2013 by bangkokstick

[Seb Bu]

Sorry for my long absence!

I´m thankful for the answer of each of u, thanks for investing time into MY RESEARCH.

Most of u r certainly right. U shouldn´t stick ur head into businesses u´re not familiar with.

Besides there´s already enough small business owners on the market who failed... probably several of those who gave me answers like ¨never do it¨ know exactly what I´m talking about.

As I mentioned above what we´re doing right now is RESEARCH and our main goal is to gain practical experience in real life.

I NEITHER WANT TO BECOME a german teacher, nor a chef. What we want is to get a glance first hand into how to construct and lead a small business . And that for me seems to be more affordable in BKK than back in Western countries.

P.S.: For all of u who want to know WE DON´T EVEN PLAN to pull up exactly that small restaurant but sth similar like that.

But as fxe1200 already said: ¨If you have no experience, are not aware of the competition around you (including their pricing), if you do not have a working marketing plan, a conservative financial plan, a long breath, forget about the legal circumstances¨

[phantomfiddler]

I have a better idea ! Take all your money into some dingy hotel room, throw it in the air as hard as you can, keep what sticks to the ceiling and walk away ! This from someone who has been in business here for well over 30 years, and seen hundreds leave with their hat in their hand, and little more. Sad to say, but everything is against you.

[Seb Bu]

I have a better idea ! Take all your money into some dingy hotel room, throw it in the air as hard as you can, keep what sticks to the ceiling and walk away ! This from someone who has been in business here for well over 30 years, and seen hundreds leave with their hat in their hand, and little more. Sad to say, but everything is against you.

Good point, but if u wanna help pls share ur 30 years of (successful) experience and don´t tell me some of ur stupid loser-stories.

[hawker9000]

Thanks a lot!

By any chance, do u have some good resources regarding the ownership status and work-permit legislations?

Thailand business and legal guide

http://bia.serverbox.net/003.html

Would accessing & reading this guide in connection with setting up a business be considered "work" and something you need a work permit for?

(Sorry - I couldn't resist...)

[slipperylobster]

Its probably going to be an educational experience, which is worth the effort alonwoue. Small time restaurants (catering to Thai's) need to compete. Thai's tend to stick with a restaurant that served them well in the past. They mostly all sell the same food, The profit is meager. Catering to farangs is going to be difficult, unless you get right in the tourists trap areas. Then you get to deal with all sorts of "other' problems. These areas are jealously guarded. We opened up 3 "operations" , albeit very small, and decided we would be better off saving the money, Our niece (Thai) bought rights to a 5 square meter area by an exercise park for 300,000 baht, pays 4,000 a month rent, plus electricity and gas. She works like a slave with one employee and is lucky to gross 3,000 baht a day. Her net per month is 15,000. She could break even after a few years. On a positive note, I had a close friend one would open a restaurant, fix it up to look like a show piece, and sell it immediately as a "turn key" operation, for a profit, without ever sweating making money on his products. He did very well.

[hanno]

Surest way to lose money in Thailand, open up a new restaurant. Especially, if you do not have any previous experience in restaurant business.

When did OP say he did not have experience?

Why is it that those who are not capable of achieving much themselves like to bring others down?

Do you have a restaurant? do you still have it? well i guess it can work then

If you do not have it anymore, just because you failed does not mean others would.

Not trying to bring anyone down, it is just that here in SR I see people opening restaurants all the time; the vast majority fail within months due to lack of a business plan/funds/concept. Just because someone dines out a lot doesn't mean it makes that person an expert at running a restaurant. If the OP has a lot of experience, great! Just did not seem like it form the original post.

[mushroomdave]

Coming next week to start my mushroom farming business and followed the #1 rule, getting a lawyer to explain all, do all the paperwork for business setup and visa. So glad I did too as all is set to go on my arrival !! Good luck!

[Seb Bu]

Surest way to lose money in Thailand, open up a new restaurant. Especially, if you do not have any previous experience in restaurant business.

When did OP say he did not have experience?

Why is it that those who are not capable of achieving much themselves like to bring others down?

Do you have a restaurant? do you still have it? well i guess it can work then

If you do not have it anymore, just because you failed does not mean others would.

Not trying to bring anyone down, it is just that here in SR I see people opening restaurants all the time; the vast majority fail within months due to lack of a business plan/funds/concept. Just because someone dines out a lot doesn't mean it makes that person an expert at running a restaurant. If the OP has a lot of experience, great! Just did not seem like it form the original post.

I totally get ur point and I´m flattered by ur concern. The thing just is that we´re not talking about the original topic anymore.

I´m interested in gathering information about ownership status, work permit for foreigners, etc. (see original post).

As I can take out from several other posts and threads I do know that the idea to launch a restaurant might b, generally speaking, stupid and doomed to fail.

And yet I said that this is actually not exactly what we want to do.

To get to the main topic again:

Would those people who have made bad experiences with the launch of a small restaurant in Bangkok pls share the common problems and traps they faced REGARDING LEGISLATION, OWNERSHIP AND WORK-PERMIT?

I´m more than happy to learn from your mistakes and therefore I need more info (WHY it didn´t work?)... stupid comments like ¨throw ur money out of the window mate¨ help me in my learning process as much as the hint to better fundraise the money for charitable purposes.

[lemoncake]

I have a better idea ! Take all your money into some dingy hotel room, throw it in the air as hard as you can, keep what sticks to the ceiling and walk away ! This from someone who has been in business here for well over 30 years, and seen hundreds leave with their hat in their hand, and little more. Sad to say, but everything is against you.

Good point, but if u wanna help pls share ur 30 years of (successful) experience and don´t tell me some of ur stupid loser-stories.

To make a post as he did , I doubt he has been in business 3 months , let alone 30 years.

Ironic how businessman of 30 years ONLY seen people fail .