Whom of you lived in Thailand but not anymore, what's your vision now ?

[northernjohn]

I am planning to return home after 18 years for something similar to those issues as above.

However, I am getting completely disillusioned with where the country is going. Things are not adding up financially for the country, and the violence appears to have increased massively in the last few years. The corruption and hoops I have to jump through to run a business here have also got me down in recent times and it just doesn't represent the opportunity it did in my eyes even a few years ago.

However, I have been badly let down by some very long standing friends and this has probably hurt more than anything. I finally feel like just any other farang to be used and that is in the end enough.

The ridiculously tough immigration and fixed paternalistic business structure has finally driven me nuts. It seems they would rather prevent foreigners getting ahead, than allow us to contribute to building the country.

I used to think I clearly understood how Thailand worked. Increasingly, I feel I understand less and less.

Thailand is the same as every other country. The elite who own the wealth and have controlled the country for centuries live in fear of the proletariat who will one day overthrow them. The only two ways to hold on to power is through an iron fist to any dissenting opinion and secondly through creating a fear in minds of the masses over an imagined enemy, who the elites then come to be the hero when they save the proletariat from this enemy. Foreigners and minority groups are an easy scapegoat.

Your disillusionment is because you want to be part of the club that doesn't want you as a member.

Well, there are other issues beyond this. Just read the headlines. Foreigners stabbed to death for not getting off a stage in a beach bar, for example. It is getting increasingly out of control. Education is a massive problem here, and I feel i would be doing my kids a diservice. Nationalism that is being pumped into my kids heads, which is genuinely disgusting to me.

But yes, I don't doubt that there is an element of not wanting foreigners to get to integrated into society. But I really have to say, and I will probably get shot down for it, but the Thai Chinese already run this country, and the people are being absolutely lied to. They are being conned, and have essentially become little more than bodies to feed profits to oligarchy.

I have bent my way over backwards, and largely enjoyed my time here, and attempted to integrate as much as possible, but at the end of the day, it isn't to be. So be it. I will leave, and there will be some tears from some other genuine Thai friends, but there is a growing resentment towards "farangs" and I really don't like it. That is their perogative, but at the end of the day, it will not do Thailand one bit of good, there will be a net loss. I feel very fortunate that I have an option to get my kids out of here, because, as talented as they may or may not be, to deny them the chance to a better quality education would be extremely selfish on my part. They deserve better than the level of education that they are being provided, and believe me, they aren't in some cheapy government school.

And then corruption. It is truly on an epidemic scale at the moment, and literally everyone is at it. It doesn't matter how good a product you sell, how good a service you provide, how beneficial what you do may or may not be, there is little or no way to get ANYTHING done without paying, and I cannot play that game. All this fake love of one's country, fake pride, fake nationalism comes down at the end of it, to "what is in it for me". It is too much, and I will go and play my game in a part of the world where it is not the norm to have to give away 30% of something to someone simply because they hold a stamp. Many a great civilisation has been brought down by corruption, Thailand will inevitably tear itself to pieces one day over this issue alone.

I really worry where this place is going, and I have argued that Thailand won't implode financially as in 97, but what is going on now, is truly approaching excess in terms of borrowing and construction. The rising political tensions and the muppets that are in this government are I fear going to cause this country to explode, and I don't want to be holding the financial baby if it all goes wrong. I will sell up, depart, and try to reminice about a time when I did enjoy living here more than I do today.

Sorry to see you go. I have for the most part enjoyed what you post in the short time I have watched this forum.

I completely agree with you on giving the kids a decent education. Also a chance at other sports.

As for the stabbing of a foreigner on stage I have mixed feelings. Sad to see him die but I wonder how many of these things are brought about by the foreigners themselves. Expecting what they did back home is OK here. Making no effort what so ever to understand the culture. Which is extremely hard to do but all the same try to respect it.

I have been here three years and realize I can never be a part of it. To much Western living. But I can appreciate it and am allowed to partake in it to a point. I have a Thai wife who really cares for me and takes too good of care of me. It can be annoying at times. I finally had to put my foot down and tell her I can pull up my own pants. She respects me and does not criticize my foreign ways nor I hers we respect each others ways. Slowely we are picking up a little of the others ways.

There are things I miss in the old country such as brothers, sisters and my grown children. But the times I went back there It wasn't long and I realized I was just a visitor not really apart of their life. One month was enough and I was ready to come home. I have some friends but they are wide spread and I visit them when I was there other than that we keep in touch by phone.

[farang000999]

Err, I rather thought it was a forum for farang who wished to discuss matters pertaining to their Thai experience. That my opinions should be somewhat negative surely doesn't preclude me from expressing them unless of course the forum were to be limited to positive views only.

I no more "hate" Thai than I hate rain on Mondays. The point seemingly lost on expat refugees subscribing to the crudity of " you no like Thailand you go home " is that for most educated Thai living abroad Thailand is a gilded cage in which the majority are imprisoned for the benefit of the few who exploit them mercilessly and without conscience. The absence of any meaningful rule of law, the endemic corruption and the ubiquity of cronyism destroying any notion of real democracy all ensure the dreadful inertia that is their rotten society persists. They are powerless to change it but unlike we farang with civilised homes to return to they must accept the fact that for them Thailand is a life sentence.

I suppose for the majority of expats in Thailand the compensations of a cut price feckless lifestyle underpinned by licentiousness and the pursuit of self indulgent ephemera is sufficient to pique their interest but in my experience these people are generally from the lower end, blue collar types who ironically are despised by decent Thai as much as they are by the upper end of the societies from where they emerged.

Frankly, no decent chap worth his salt would ever consider Thailand a worthwhile country to pitch his tent permanently.

I enjoyed my time there but it was never more than an interlude.

Just skip to the part where you tell us what her name was and what she did to you.

[Seekingasylum]

Rather think that comment is more indicative of your own experience than mine and probably goes some way in supporting my assertion that for most expats currently languishing in Thailand they have little to occupy their minds other than the pursuit of poontang. I mean no criticism here not least because in many respects Thailand is a cultural desert with little to offer anyone of discernment.

[yooyoo]

After visiting and living in Thailand on and off for 13 years, i made the mistake of having a child with a Thai women who was living in England (my kids perfect).

And seeing how they behave when things don't go exactly as they want i've had my fill of all Thais and Thailand, i don't intend visiting or letting my child go to the place for a very very long time as i wouldn't want the ways of Thailand and its chosen people anywhere near my child.

Why am i still posting on here, i'd say boredom but delete my profile if you desire!

This was exactly my mistake....having a child with a Thai woman...

Everybody has the right of their own opinion . From what I have read on this thread I agree with some statements , rather because of their own experiences but also in my opinion of the lack of understanding Thais in general , they live day by day to survive , don't forget this aspect ...Anyway for my respond to this poster , in all respect , How in hell can you say that your own child with a Thai woman or not is a mistake ? I cannot and will not try to understand any motive , apart the thai-woman aspect , she still bared your child , your own blood.......Well perhaps ...maybe ...for some thinking likewise , this could well be the reason why the ignorance of the emotional part , is quietly in connection why you do not fit well with thai people in general as well .

i leave it with this , the best to all of you .

The best to you too... you are obviously missing the point if you think the Thais are capable of enjoying a satisfactory level of emotional intelligence ....

[farang000999]

Rather think that comment is more indicative of your own experience than mine and probably goes some way in supporting my assertion that for most expats currently languishing in Thailand they have little to occupy their minds other than the pursuit of poontang. I mean no criticism here not least because in many respects Thailand is a cultural desert with little to offer anyone of discernment.

Well I am in the USA. Another cultural desert but without the poontang. Just obese women dragging around their biracial off spring.

[yooyoo]

Rather think that comment is more indicative of your own experience than mine and probably goes some way in supporting my assertion that for most expats currently languishing in Thailand they have little to occupy their minds other than the pursuit of poontang. I mean no criticism here not least because in many respects Thailand is a cultural desert with little to offer anyone of discernment.

Well I am in the USA. Another cultural desert but without the poontang. Just obese women dragging around their biracial off spring.

There is more then interpretation to your post and I am not going into that but I do find it funny... heheee

[4evermaat]

So what are those who left thailand and did not or do not intend to come back.....what are you ended up doing to pass the time?

"...the 2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from ThaiVisa app (Galaxy Note 2).

[MegaRanter]

I left. Still visits, once or twice a year. I lived all the dream in Thailand. I had all the fun to be had in every form.

I had no issues or any problems with any Thai person at any time. My gross is just with the amount of bureaucracy I have to deal with on a daily basis.

One American did nt understand my leaving, I simply told him I have citizenship of even a worse of third world country. But there I got rights and all the foreigners there got rights or even more. I had a bust up with a diplomat the other day. He pissed me off, threw the first punch, I kicked in his car doors, we made a little noise, he left, I left, no locals intervened.

My blood pressure is down, I am even thinking of stopping the amlodipine and atelenolol.

Don't miss Thailand at all, my Thai partner doesn't speak English, so I speak Thai everyday. I also get invited to Thai national day/kings birthday at the embassy, where I rub more than shoulders with some cool cats.

Now that I have children Thailand lost it's charm.

[benalibina]

I left. Still visits, once or twice a year. I lived all the dream in Thailand. I had all the fun to be had in every form.

I had no issues or any problems with any Thai person at any time. My gross is just with the amount of bureaucracy I have to deal with on a daily basis.

One American did nt understand my leaving, I simply told him I have citizenship of even a worse of third world country. But there I got rights and all the foreigners there got rights or even more. I had a bust up with a diplomat the other day. He pissed me off, threw the first punch, I kicked in his car doors, we made a little noise, he left, I left, no locals intervened.

My blood pressure is down, I am even thinking of stopping the amlodipine and atelenolol.

Don't miss Thailand at all, my Thai partner doesn't speak English, so I speak Thai everyday. I also get invited to Thai national day/kings birthday at the embassy, where I rub more than shoulders with some cool cats.

Now that I have children Thailand lost it's charm.

Out of interest; your partner does not speak your national language, 1 can conclude.

Why ?

Agree with your last sentence.

[northernjohn]

Rather think that comment is more indicative of your own experience than mine and probably goes some way in supporting my assertion that for most expats currently languishing in Thailand they have little to occupy their minds other than the pursuit of poontang. I mean no criticism here not least because in many respects Thailand is a cultural desert with little to offer anyone of discernment.

Do we call you sir or sire when we address your royal personage. Would I have cultural discernment if I stuck my pinky out when drinking tea?

[Kimera]

I would like to point out that the many posts by falang that have had bad problems with the treatment they receive from the Thai people, should not feel picked on! they do this this to each other ALL the time

[StreetCowboy]

Rather think that comment is more indicative of your own experience than mine and probably goes some way in supporting my assertion that for most expats currently languishing in Thailand they have little to occupy their minds other than the pursuit of poontang. I mean no criticism here not least because in many respects Thailand is a cultural desert with little to offer anyone of discernment.

Do we call you sir or sire when we address your royal personage. Would I have cultural discernment if I stuck my pinky out when drinking tea?

People of class stick their pinkie out whether taking tea and cucumber sandwiches with the nobility, knocking back Guinness down the boozer or enjoying a cup of char down the nick awaiting trial.

[Chittychangchang]

Rather think that comment is more indicative of your own experience than mine and probably goes some way in supporting my assertion that for most expats currently languishing in Thailand they have little to occupy their minds other than the pursuit of poontang. I mean no criticism here not least because in many respects Thailand is a cultural desert with little to offer anyone of discernment.

Do we call you sir or sire when we address your royal personage. Would I have cultural discernment if I stuck my pinky out when drinking tea?

People of class stick their pinkie out whether taking tea and cucumber sandwiches with the nobility, knocking back Guinness down the boozer or enjoying a cup of char down the nick awaiting trial.

One must be careful when sticking one's pinkie anywhere in Thailand.

[NeverToReturn]

After visiting and living in Thailand on and off for 13 years, i made the mistake of having a child with a Thai women who was living in England (my kids perfect).

And seeing how they behave when things don't go exactly as they want i've had my fill of all Thais and Thailand, i don't intend visiting or letting my child go to the place for a very very long time as i wouldn't want the ways of Thailand and its chosen people anywhere near my child.

Why am i still posting on here, i'd say boredom but delete my profile if you desire!

This was exactly my mistake....having a child with a Thai woman...

Everybody has the right of their own opinion . From what I have read on this thread I agree with some statements , rather because of their own experiences but also in my opinion of the lack of understanding Thais in general , they live day by day to survive , don't forget this aspect ...Anyway for my respond to this poster , in all respect , How in hell can you say that your own child with a Thai woman or not is a mistake ? I cannot and will not try to understand any motive , apart the thai-woman aspect , she still bared your child , your own blood.......Well perhaps ...maybe ...for some thinking likewise , this could well be the reason why the ignorance of the emotional part , is quietly in connection why you do not fit well with thai people in general as well .

i leave it with this , the best to all of you .

You talk of Thais as if they are a total different species, that only the educated and the chosen few understand, i personally think they ought to start thinking like the English if they choose to live in my country and get British citizenship. I also think anyone from planet earth who doesnt have the ability to sit down and rationally speak to sort things out for the sake of their children is a f'en idiot, and running away seems to be the THAI way .... I never said my child was a mistake, hence why i said she is perfect, but i just wish she was born to a different mother one that knows nothing of the species that are Thais.

I used to love Thailand and its people and had many a great time there ... if i could turn back the clock i'd never visit the place or speak to one of its chosen people, i'm happy to admit i look down on their ways.

[benalibina]

After visiting and living in Thailand on and off for 13 years, i made the mistake of having a child with a Thai women who was living in England (my kids perfect).

And seeing how they behave when things don't go exactly as they want i've had my fill of all Thais and Thailand, i don't intend visiting or letting my child go to the place for a very very long time as i wouldn't want the ways of Thailand and its chosen people anywhere near my child.

Why am i still posting on here, i'd say boredom but delete my profile if you desire!

This was exactly my mistake....having a child with a Thai woman...

Everybody has the right of their own opinion . From what I have read on this thread I agree with some statements , rather because of their own experiences but also in my opinion of the lack of understanding Thais in general , they live day by day to survive , don't forget this aspect ...Anyway for my respond to this poster , in all respect , How in hell can you say that your own child with a Thai woman or not is a mistake ? I cannot and will not try to understand any motive , apart the thai-woman aspect , she still bared your child , your own blood.......Well perhaps ...maybe ...for some thinking likewise , this could well be the reason why the ignorance of the emotional part , is quietly in connection why you do not fit well with thai people in general as well .

i leave it with this , the best to all of you .

You talk of Thais as if they are a total different species, that only the educated and the chosen few understand, i personally think they ought to start thinking like the English if they choose to live in my country and get British citizenship. I also think anyone from planet earth who doesnt have the ability to sit down and rationally speak to sort things out for the sake of their children is a f'en idiot, and running away seems to be the THAI way .... I never said my child was a mistake, hence why i said she is perfect, but i just wish she was born to a different mother one that knows nothing of the species that are Thais.

I used to love Thailand and its people and had many a great time there ... if i could turn back the clock i'd never visit the place or speak to one of its chosen people, i'm happy to admit i look down on their ways.

Agree with you, apart from after the comma in your last sentence. Sorry to understand that your situation ended quite sour with the mom of your child. Having kids IMO changed my perception of thai society, not for the better i have to admit, sadly enough.

Good luck.

[StreetCowboy]

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...

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You talk of Thais as if they are a total different species, that only the educated and the chosen few understand, i personally think they ought to start thinking like the English if they choose to live in my country and get British citizenship. I also think anyone from planet earth who doesnt have the ability to sit down and rationally speak to sort things out for the sake of their children is a f'en idiot, and running away seems to be the THAI way .... I never said my child was a mistake, hence why i said she is perfect, but i just wish she was born to a different mother one that knows nothing of the species that are Thais.

I used to love Thailand and its people and had many a great time there ... if i could turn back the clock i'd never visit the place or speak to one of its chosen people, i'm happy to admit i look down on their ways.

Agree with you, apart from after the comma in your last sentence. Sorry to understand that your situation ended quite sour with the mom of your child. Having kids IMO changed my perception of thai society, not for the better i have to admit, sadly enough.

Good luck.

I don't think having children changes our opinion on Thai society, it changes our values, and having a rolicking good time, licentious debauchery loses its priority and we become more concerned with personal safety and social stability. Thai society remains the same, but we change.

SC

[benalibina]

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...

...

You talk of Thais as if they are a total different species, that only the educated and the chosen few understand, i personally think they ought to start thinking like the English if they choose to live in my country and get British citizenship. I also think anyone from planet earth who doesnt have the ability to sit down and rationally speak to sort things out for the sake of their children is a f'en idiot, and running away seems to be the THAI way .... I never said my child was a mistake, hence why i said she is perfect, but i just wish she was born to a different mother one that knows nothing of the species that are Thais.

I used to love Thailand and its people and had many a great time there ... if i could turn back the clock i'd never visit the place or speak to one of its chosen people, i'm happy to admit i look down on their ways.

Agree with you, apart from after the comma in your last sentence. Sorry to understand that your situation ended quite sour with the mom of your child. Having kids IMO changed my perception of thai society, not for the better i have to admit, sadly enough.

Good luck.

I don't think having children changes our opinion on Thai society, it changes our values, and having a rolicking good time, licentious debauchery loses its priority and we become more concerned with personal safety and social stability. Thai society remains the same, but we change.

SC

My perception changed, i wrote. Started looking through different eyes to thailand as a whole. Culture, language, education, families, values, morals etc. It made me realize the differences between native country and LOS.

[tijnebijn]

After visiting and living in Thailand on and off for 13 years, i made the mistake of having a child with a Thai women who was living in England (my kids perfect).

And seeing how they behave when things don't go exactly as they want i've had my fill of all Thais and Thailand, i don't intend visiting or letting my child go to the place for a very very long time as i wouldn't want the ways of Thailand and its chosen people anywhere near my child.

Why am i still posting on here, i'd say boredom but delete my profile if you desire!

This was exactly my mistake....having a child with a Thai woman...

Everybody has the right of their own opinion . From what I have read on this thread I agree with some statements , rather because of their own experiences but also in my opinion of the lack of understanding Thais in general , they live day by day to survive , don't forget this aspect ...Anyway for my respond to this poster , in all respect , How in hell can you say that your own child with a Thai woman or not is a mistake ? I cannot and will not try to understand any motive , apart the thai-woman aspect , she still bared your child , your own blood.......Well perhaps ...maybe ...for some thinking likewise , this could well be the reason why the ignorance of the emotional part , is quietly in connection why you do not fit well with thai people in general as well .

i leave it with this , the best to all of you .

You talk of Thais as if they are a total different species, that only the educated and the chosen few understand, i personally think they ought to start thinking like the English if they choose to live in my country and get British citizenship. I also think anyone from planet earth who doesnt have the ability to sit down and rationally speak to sort things out for the sake of their children is a f'en idiot, and running away seems to be the THAI way .... I never said my child was a mistake, hence why i said she is perfect, but i just wish she was born to a different mother one that knows nothing of the species that are Thais.

I used to love Thailand and its people and had many a great time there ... if i could turn back the clock i'd never visit the place or speak to one of its chosen people, i'm happy to admit i look down on their ways.

You both are totally missing my point . I tried to say that I do understand your viewpoint , don;t understand me wrong , as complicated it is to understand why Thais can do the things as they do , as complicated it is for me to make you both understand what I mean with the phrase , and from you not understanding how Thais do is really your own incapability rather than the Thais you're saying you look down to . I think you can feel sorry from coming here , but don't think its only Thais who made your experience such bad , although there are many bad apples , many are more capable than you might think and not only the educated .

In fact from one of you posters saying that Thais are not capable emotionally , I differ , they might react differently yes , or choose to be bad yes , or even play moronic but they are not yes , or are moronic yes , many , but they don't have the need as we westerners do to talk so much , they handle it different , Asians do , in that way you can say they are of different species in a way , not my words .

I think to make things go around one should be fair and balanced , is it really the fault of others ...? only ? Why should they understand Westerners ? We should understand them , or try when we reside here , I admit for myself many is rather contradicting where we come from , but to be successful here in love and business and family life , we should and we can learn a lot , I did and still am , but some we not need to , why should we .

Your ex is and was very unreasonable , but don't generalise so much , my experience is very different personally , but have seen some as yours , but its not as normal as you think it is , rather a non-responsible individual , whmo I'm sure other Thais would despise too of their behaviour .

I reacted in this thread , because although many bad experiences of foreigners in Thailand , there are also many good , which you do not hear so much as bad stories , many enjoy staying here but do not want to interact with them , rather strange , sooner or later we will , and time at least did make me understand things I could rather be angry about before , now I won't , even get bored by you guys reaction , as I was the same , things are difficult here for us , but western ways of things are not the only and the very best , that's totally nonsense , many things are for a reason here , not to get in trouble or to make it , and also not really wanting something from you , how strange that sounds , but believe after 15 years , I learned a great deal , and its fuc88ing fascinating really . You need to have patience and self reflection ,both ways , its hard work , what you think we're still not even talking about a gf , thats the easy part ...incapability of reflecting different cultures , is our own ignorance not the other way around .

cheers anyway .

[northernjohn]

I think it is strange for someone who has left and hates Thailand to still be posting on a Thailand talk website.

Err, I rather thought it was a forum for farang who wished to discuss matters pertaining to their Thai experience. That my opinions should be somewhat negative surely doesn't preclude me from expressing them unless of course the forum were to be limited to positive views only.

I no more "hate" Thai than I hate rain on Mondays. The point seemingly lost on expat refugees subscribing to the crudity of " you no like Thailand you go home " is that for most educated Thai living abroad Thailand is a gilded cage in which the majority are imprisoned for the benefit of the few who exploit them mercilessly and without conscience. The absence of any meaningful rule of law, the endemic corruption and the ubiquity of cronyism destroying any notion of real democracy all ensure the dreadful inertia that is their rotten society persists. They are powerless to change it but unlike we farang with civilised homes to return to they must accept the fact that for them Thailand is a life sentence.

I suppose for the majority of expats in Thailand the compensations of a cut price feckless lifestyle underpinned by licentiousness and the pursuit of self indulgent ephemera is sufficient to pique their interest but in my experience these people are generally from the lower end, blue collar types who ironically are despised by decent Thai as much as they are by the upper end of the societies from where they emerged.

Frankly, no decent chap worth his salt would ever consider Thailand a worthwhile country to pitch his tent permanently.

I enjoyed my time there but it was never more than an interlude.

Every one is entitled to their opinions unfortunatly some take that to mean false information. I personally don't caare why you left there was no need to make up things if you didn't like it just say so.

Personaly I think you will have a hard time where ever you go. Snob's are not appreciated in any country.

You mentioned in all your travels I take it this is not the first place you have found your snobbery unwelcome.