Do I need to declair Thai Baht gold necklace into the USA?

[TyGrr]

Hello, I and my wife are thinking about brining in about 40 Baht (weight) worth of gold into the USA.

I understand that we need to report cash if it is over $10,000 (per person or per family?) but what about gold? We will also be bringing a significant amount of cash, USD and Thai Baht.

What worries me the most is that there seems to be different rules for families than indivediuals and I can not find them anywhere. Also I can not find anything about jewelry.

I will be traveling with my son so it will be a total of three people. We would like to carry as much as we are leggally able to carry with out filing any reports.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Gold? Not sure, but it's not listed as a "monetary instrument" on these two forms:

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin105_cmir.pdf

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/travel/currency_rpt_flyer/currency_reporting.ctt/currency_reporting.pdf

I'd also suggest you contact the Bangkok office of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/embassy/cbp.html

Address: Sindhorn Building (next to the U.S. Embassy),Tower 2, 15th Floor 130-132 Wireless Road Bangkok 10330, THAILAND

Tel.: 02-205-5391 (within Thailand)

Tel.: 011-662-205-5391 (from the United States)

The office is open to the public by phone and window on Tuesday and Thursday from 8:30am to 10:30am. We are closed on Thai and American holidays.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mac

[zeichen]

40 baht weight is a lot. You can bring in jewelery of course that is personal use, but that is definitely more than a few hundred dollars.

Customs declaration is value of goods not just cash. So yes you will be taxed on it and need to file, or risk being fined.

In short all family members traveling together are allowed 10kUSD in total not individually. That includes all gold and cash. So if you are carrying more than a total of 10kUSD you will need to file.

This is from US customs FAQ's

"Please be aware, if persons/family members traveling together have $10,000 or more, they cannot divide the currency between each other to avoid declaring the currency.

For example, if one person is carrying $5,000 and the other has $6,000, they have a total of $11, 000 in their possession and must report it on a FinCEN 105. If a person or family fails to declare their monetary instruments in amounts of over $10,000, their monetary instrument(s) may be subject to forfeiture and could result to civil and criminal penalties."

[TyGrr]

Well, with the gold do we value it at what we paid for it 8 years ago or what we could sell it for now?

Sadly we did not keep records.

[lomatopo]

Gold Bullion is not a monetary instrument for purposes of this requirement, but still must be declared upon entry.

*There is no duty on gold coins, medals or bullion but these items must be declared to a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer. Please note a FinCEN 105 form must be completed at the time of entry for monetary instruments over $10,000. This includes currency, ie. gold coins, valued over $10,000. The FINCEN definition of currency: The coin and paper money of the United States or any other country that is (1) designated as legal tender and that (2) circulates and (3) is customarily accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/332/kw/gold%20jewelry/session/L3NpZC9JalV5b0x3bA%3D%3D

I would complete a FinCen105, declaring the gold, and anything else if in a large-ish amount. What's to lose by playing it safe? Better than paying duty on expensive, luxury jewelry.

http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin105_cmir.pdf

I would use the value of the gold today, so ~ $24,000.

Edited August 2, 2013 by lomatopo

[TyGrr]

thanks for your help guys, i will look this stuff over.

since we plan to bring the stuff back we might not even bring it.

we just wanted to keep it from getting stolen while away.

[zeichen]

If you will return to Thailand and don't actually need it put it in a safety deposit box.

[TyGrr]

If you will return to Thailand and don't actually need it put it in a safety deposit box.

we did think about that, but it is nice to have it with us. esp with all the banks around the world on edge.

[Suradit69]

If you will return to Thailand and don't actually need it put it in a safety deposit box.

we did think about that, but it is nice to have it with us. esp with all the banks around the world on edge.

If you're coming back to Thailand with that much gold you'd need an import permit.

Thailand Customs, Currency & Airport Tax regulations details

Prohibited (without licence):

1. Firearms and ammunition incl. explosive articles and fireworks, drugs of narcotic nature, e.g. heroin.

2. Gold bullion. Moreover it must be declared on arrival and can, if no import licence is available, be left in Customs bond at the airport of entry to be retrieved on departure.

http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/TH-Thailand-customs-currency-airport-tax-regulations-details.htm

Exporting gold bullion in quantity from Thailand seems to be a gray area. Some sites on the Internet suggest it is illegal, but those references don't seem to be official.

And if you spending any time in other countries on your way back to the US you should be careful about what rules they enforce.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Suradit69

[elgordo38]

Good luck in getting a safety deposit box.

[thrilled]

1.First off most of the banks that have safe deposit boxes are full.They stay full.You need to get on the list.There is A private company that you can rent from in bangkok.They have tight security.They aren't cheap.

2.About gold,I don't have any trouble wearing A gold chain from thailand to the us.It's 3 baht.If I was going to wear A 10 baht or more chain,i would say I purchased it when gold was $300 an ounce.If your carrying gold pieces be careful.What I don't understand A womans wedding ring,some women's rings might cost $100,000 or more.Customs don't say A thing.Wierd

[glennb6]

very iffy eh?

my 2 baht worth of comments are to assume that the ussa govt may well try to confiscate whatever they think they can. when it comes down to getting sent to the other cue to be checked, assume the worst and be prepared.

as for leaving in a thai safe deposit box? if you would leave a significant amt of AU in a safe deposit box in a US bank and still be able to sleep at night, you are a fool. Now imagine going into a thai bank to retrieve your AU from their box and getting the ubiquitous dumb stare/mai-kow-jai/come back tomorrow... You as a non-citizen non-thai would be a triple fool if you think you could prevail.

if you are assuredly returning to thailand, get a good pvc tube and a shovel, and sneak out at night and plant it where only you know where.

[johnlandy]

Well, with the gold do we value it at what we paid for it 8 years ago or what we could sell it for now?

Sadly we did not keep records.

Just wear it and walk through. If asked tell them it has been in your possession for 8 years.

They should be able to verify that by looking at it (but don't get it cleaned before leaving LoS)

Edited August 3, 2013 by johnlandy

[khwaibah]

Yes you have to declare...

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Importing gold coins, medals, and bullion

What are the regulations for importing gold coins, medals, and bullion into the U.S.?

Gold coins, medals, and bullion may be brought into the U.S. However, under regulations administered by the Office of Foreign Assets Control, such items originating in or brought from, Cuba, Iran, and Sudan* are prohibited entry.

Copies of gold coins are prohibited if not properly marked by the country of issuance. The importation of counterfeit coins is prohibited.

There is no duty on gold coins, medals or bullion but these items must be declared to a Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer. Please note a FinCEN 105 form must be completed at the time of entry for monetary instruments over $10,000. This includes currency, ie. gold coins, valued over $10,000. The FINCEN definition of currency: The coin and paper money of the United States or any other country that is (1) designated as legal tender and that (2) circulates and (3) is customarily accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance.

If you have doubt whether your gold/gold coin is considered a monetary instrument it is in your best interest to declare the item(s) with a CBP Officer, so you do not give a false declaration.

* Section 1 of E.O. 13412 maintains the countrywide blocking of the property and interests in property of the Government of Sudan imposed by E.O. 13067; however, section 6(d) of E.O. 13412 excludes the regional government of Southern Sudan from the definition of the Government of Sudan. Section 2 of E.O. 13412 prohibits all transactions by U.S. persons relating to Sudan's petroleum or petrochemical industries, including, but not limited to, oilfield services and oil or gas pipelines. Sections 1 and 2 of E.O. 13412 apply to the entire territory of Sudan.

Exempt Areas of Sudan

Section 4( of E.O. 13412 exempts from the prohibitions in section 2 of E.O. 13067 specific areas of Sudan: Southern Sudan, Southern Kordofan / Nuba Mountains State, Blue Nile State, Abyei, Darfur, and marginalized areas in and around Khartoum. Thus, trade and humanitarian assistance are no longer prohibited in the exempt areas, provided that these activities do not involve Sudan's petroleum or petrochemical industries or any property or interests in property of the Government of Sudan. The non-exempt areas of Sudan continue to be subject to the comprehensive sanctions set forth in E.O. 13067.

Please note that E.O. 13412 does not affect licensing requirements for exports of agricultural commodities, medicine, and medical devices pursuant to section 538.523 of the SSR. Even in cases where such exports are destined for the exempt area of Sudan, licensing remains required pursuant to section 906 of the Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act of 2000 (P. Law 106-387).

If you wish to receive automatic updates to this Q&A, select "Subscribe to Updates" on the left side of this screen.

[rsokolowski]

You can bring $800 dollars worth of goods per person into the USA duty free. Anything over $800 (per person) and you will have to pay duty on. So, as long as you have 32 people in your family (and they are traveling with you) you could bring 40 baht worth of gold into the USA duty free.

[Bagwan]

Wouldn't the US Customs assume that if you purchased the gold in Thai then it wouldn't be the real McCoy but a cheap knock off?

[kbelyeu]

Why not just sell it to a gold shop, place the money into a bank account and repurchase when you return? Your wife could probably discuss repurchasing the exact same gold once you return from the same shop at the current market rate. This way you are protected if there is a sudden drop in market prices, protected against theft of the items and and you don't have to worry about exporting and importing the items.

Regards,

Kurt

[oneday]

thanks for your help guys, i will look this stuff over.

since we plan to bring the stuff back we might not even bring it.

we just wanted to keep it from getting stolen while away.

First of all I wouldn't even consider NOT declaring it. Secondly, if you don't want it stolen then just get a safety deposit box in your Thai bank. That is by far the simplest solution IMO.

Edited August 3, 2013 by oneday

[marell]

The short answer is declare it. Otherwise you run the risk of confiscation plus whatever else the Customs people feel appropriate to throw at you.

[hawker9000]

You have to declare all goods you're bringing in (and their value). Below a certain amount you just won't have to pay any duty, but you have to declare everything. I've even declared toiletry items, and gone so far as to specify dollars & cents. I know that's a little over the top, but brother the looks I get from the customs guys.

[HerbalEd]

Gold in what form? Bullion or necklace or other jewelry? There's no duty for gold coins.

[HerbalEd]

40 baht weight is a lot. You can bring in jewelery of course that is personal use, but that is definitely more than a few hundred dollars.

Customs declaration is value of goods not just cash. So yes you will be taxed on it and need to file, or risk being fined.

In short all family members traveling together are allowed 10kUSD in total not individually. That includes all gold and cash. So if you are carrying more than a total of 10kUSD you will need to file.

This is from US customs FAQ's

"Please be aware, if persons/family members traveling together have $10,000 or more, they cannot divide the currency between each other to avoid declaring the currency.

For example, if one person is carrying $5,000 and the other has $6,000, they have a total of $11, 000 in their possession and must report it on a FinCEN 105. If a person or family fails to declare their monetary instruments in amounts of over $10,000, their monetary instrument(s) may be subject to forfeiture and could result to civil and criminal penalties."

Just because something you purchased outside USA is for "personal use" does not necessarily make it duty free. However, not all declared items incur duty ... in fact, most don't.

I've thoroughly searched US Customs on google and surprisingly I can't find a specific reading on gold jewelry. I'm especially surprised that the US Customs form for monetary instruments doesn't even mention the word gold.

You definitely need to call US Customs office in BKK.

[HerbalEd]

Wouldn't the US Customs assume that if you purchased the gold in Thai then it wouldn't be the real McCoy but a cheap knock off?

Why would they think that? US Customs is well aware that there are very large numbers of gold shops in Thailand ... and throughout Asia.

[HerbalEd]

very iffy eh?

my 2 baht worth of comments are to assume that the ussa govt may well try to confiscate whatever they think they can. when it comes down to getting sent to the other cue to be checked, assume the worst and be prepared.

as for leaving in a thai safe deposit box? if you would leave a significant amt of AU in a safe deposit box in a US bank and still be able to sleep at night, you are a fool. Now imagine going into a thai bank to retrieve your AU from their box and getting the ubiquitous dumb stare/mai-kow-jai/come back tomorrow... You as a non-citizen non-thai would be a triple fool if you think you could prevail.

if you are assuredly returning to thailand, get a good pvc tube and a shovel, and sneak out at night and plant it where only you know where.

Re. safety deposit boxes in USA ... you speak of what you obviously don't know. I sleep very well with large amounts of gold, jewelry, etc. in safety deposit boxes. In fact, I sleep much better than having it in my home. For one, the boxes are in a much safer place fire wise.

[SNGLIFE]

You only have to declare if it is bullion or coin. You can wear 40 baht easily and not attract attention provided you are not stupid about it. For example, 40 one-baht necklaces will attract attention. 4 ten-baht necklaces won't.

Indians stroll through customs all the time dripping with gold. No problems.

[SNGLIFE]

Speaking of Indians, here's a better answer than mine.:

http://www.indusladies.com/forums/general-discussions-usa-and-canada/205310-us-customs-charged-bringing-jewelry-2.html

You can find better answers Googling for "India gold jewelry and US customs". IMO, if you are truly an Audie L. Murphy type, then ignore my previous post about waltzing in with the a couple of chains around your neck and those traveling with you and just declare and pay the taxes. I've been in/out of the US with 20 baht on my neck and 10 baht on my wife with no problems. Customs is not looking for small-time stuff like that, anyway. If you try to stroll through with a bunch of gold jewelry in a bag, then that's just stupid and you'd deserve to be nicked.

[hawker9000]

Again, if you bought it, or otherwise "acquired" it, abroad, and you're a returning U.S. citizen, you are obligated legally to declare it in all cases. If you decide not to because you don't think it'll be noticed or questioned (IOW, because you don't think you'll be caught), well, that's a different conversation... Having to declare something doesn't mean you necessarily will owe any duty on it. But if you fail to declare something, even if you'd have owed nothing, then it might be confiscatable on that basis alone. (Plus I'm sure that puts your name on some kind of a list somewhere...) If you're carrying something expensive that looks brand new but isn't, 'not a bad idea to carry the original purchase invoice or receipt with you. The instructions for U.S. residents on the customs form (6059B) itself specifically state that you must declare all articles acquired abroad that you are bringing into the U.S. (NOT just those in excess of the exempted amount.)

If you look, you can find the US Customs Import Duty Schedule online. 'Not saying it's the easiest document to navigate & use (I'm not even sure the pros always make the right tax determination), but it's not that hard to look up.

[nahkit]

You only have to declare if it is bullion or coin. You can wear 40 baht easily and not attract attention provided you are not stupid about it. For example, 40 one-baht necklaces will attract attention. 4 ten-baht necklaces won't.

Indians stroll through customs all the time dripping with gold. No problems.

I'd agree with that.

My wife used to always take her gold with her when we went on our annual vacation, including during the five years we lived in the US.

She wore most of it and put the rest in her handbag, probably not as much as 40 baht but certainly over 30 baht worth. Other than the odd remark from people at the x-ray scanners she never had a problem with it.

[BahBahBoBo]

Land of the Free

World of democracy

Ha! My Arshe!

hahaha!

NO NO NO NO NO

You must report everything

You must obey everything

Cameras are watching you everywhere

Drones are watching you everywher

Don't talk back!

Keep your head down boy and obey!

Welcome to the New World Order!

Didn't Pink Floyd tell you years ago?

"Welcome my son... welcome, to 'The Machine'..."

[Jay Sata]

Well, with the gold do we value it at what we paid for it 8 years ago or what we could sell it for now?

Sadly we did not keep records.

Just wear it and walk through. If asked tell them it has been in your possession for 8 years.

They should be able to verify that by looking at it (but don't get it cleaned before leaving LoS)

I wear two baht which is about the limit for comfort. I tried 4baht years ago and found it was like a weight around my neck. The thought of wearing 20 baht let alone 40 baht is sheer nonsense.

I don't know where you are visiting in the US but wearing that much gold will make you look like a Christmas tree and is an open invitation to get mugged.