Thailand mulls compulsory travel insurance for all foreign tourists

[hellodolly]

"BANGKOK: -- The Tourism and Sports Ministry is planning to make it compulsory for all foreign tourists to have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom because unpaid bills are putting a huge strain on cash-strapped public hospitals in major destinations, particularly Phuket."

Yeah, right, it's tourists who are putting the strain on hospitals. Nothing at all to do with under funding, corruption and locals not paying their bills. <deleted> you cannot blame the state of Thailand's Public Health Service on tourists.

I have no problem with your second paragraph.

While it is also true in Phuket it is also true that Phuket gets the most tourists. Also take in to consideration the fact that short of a pile of cash the only way to get from one point on the Island to another is to rent a motor bike. As is true in any part of Thailand where you have tourists renting motor bikes a good percentage of them are not qualified to ride them in their own country. So I would have to agree that it is a problem.

As has been pointed out here the 500 baht plan would in all reality make it worse.

[Chicken George]

Wow!! If I can get medical insurance for 500 baht then bugger extending my O visa for reason of retirement Iam going to get a Tourist Visa!

[Loptr]

Not sure why there are those that rail against this program, saying that the Thais should just absorb the out of pocket medical expenses of tourists or the most stupid one I read, that people would actually make use of a travel insurance policy if required to buy one. Isn't that what it's for? Besides, the underwriter of the policies would take the hit for any coverage, not Thailand. Some of you people need to step away from the keyboard for a while as you stopped making sense a long time ago. Perhaps a better method would be to just deport anyone injured while in Thailand. That would really give you guys something to moan about.

[wolf5370]

I believe thailand does not have an insurance policy for people over 65?.Also looking at one of the replies which said 3rd party motor insurance should be pkay for motor accidents .Does anyone know if this is correct and what the cover is?

3rd party means those other than the insured - i.e. anyone you run over or is hurt in an accident OTHER than you. So, it would not help at all unless planning to get run over by someone (in the hope they have sufficient insurance and actually stop!).

[CIHUAHUA]

I will make sure I get my moneys worth. Good luck.

[hellodolly]

There was a thread here a while back about the price difference of book from here (Thailand) to the UK and the price the other way around (both returns). No real answer that I saw, but it is more to do with the usual supply and demand and competition - Thailand is only one of a number of holiday destinations in the UK, so prices need to be competitive for the route to sell - however, Brits in Thailand and Thais doing UK business trips are a captive audience (UK is not a holiday destination for Thais - thus there is not the competition for routes - people in Thailand are either going to the UK or not) - its the same for most of Europe too IMO.

I first suggested putting it on Airport landing tax (btw it was 1000 baht exit fee for a few years before it was moved to the airlines). I still think this is the fairest and easiest way to do it. It allows for an emergency fund rather than individual based policy (that will encourage people not to buy home insurance!) that can be put aside and cover any such eventualities as hospital claims etc - it can also be invested (hopefully safely!). Landing tax here is very cheap compared to say the UK where it is expensive - a small lift in air ticket price worldwide (to Thailand) would hardly be noticed - and as all seats would be paying can be brought down to just a couple of dollars each - negligible verses a $1,000 ticket.

Great idea as it would apply to people just passing through Thailand on their way say to Cambodia or some other countrie. that indeed would give them the amount of funds for a tourist Medical plan,

[harrry]

Motorcycle accidents should be covered and are by the PorROrBor for 10500regardles of fault immediately and 100000 if fault proved. Many accidents are covered under this but the hospital does not claim the PorRorBor for foreigners in Phuket.

[pomchop]

There must be a zillion different travel insurance policies issued worldwide and likely most every country has their own policies with hundreds of lines of fine print and exclusions etc and ID cards in the native language etc.....so good luck having immigration check the insurance card ID of every arriving tourist to make sure it meets the new standard.

Exactly what is the plan to enforce a new rule? The airlines sure as heck don't want to get into the check insurance ID biz. So who and where will check it?

The only realistic way is to add a fee/tax on all incoming airline tickets....just what everyone needs is yet another tax on airline tickets. But even that doesn't cover the people who arrive via land.

Lots of questions...not many answers.

[harrry]

I believe thailand does not have an insurance policy for people over 65?.Also looking at one of the replies which said 3rd party motor insurance should be pkay for motor accidents .Does anyone know if this is correct and what the cover is?

3rd party means those other than the insured - i.e. anyone you run over or is hurt in an accident OTHER than you. So, it would not help at all unless planning to get run over by someone (in the hope they have sufficient insurance and actually stop!).

porRorBor under the act is Road user insurance and not 3rd party. I have claimed and recieved 10500 through it. It is not equivalent to the US or UK third party.

Edited August 13, 2013 by harrry

[wolf5370]

Not sure why there are those that rail against this program, saying that the Thais should just absorb the out of pocket medical expenses of tourists or the most stupid one I read, that people would actually make use of a travel insurance policy if required to buy one. Isn't that what it's for? Besides, the underwriter of the policies would take the hit for any coverage, not Thailand. Some of you people need to step away from the keyboard for a while as you stopped making sense a long time ago. Perhaps a better method would be to just deport anyone injured while in Thailand. That would really give you guys something to moan about.

and just who would underwrite a 500 baht catch-all medical insurance coverage that was worth anything at all? It would not make financial sense. It would have to be much more expensive to cover those that are otherwise uninsurable - or have a sliding scale, in which case it is not 500baht. To an individual, insurance is to cover eventualities - for an insurance company/underwriter, it is about balancing risk to maximize profit. Therefore, the exemptions that would be needed to make it viable would land them in exactly the same position, with unpaid bills, with the extra cost of administrating and enforcing such a system/policy - and the negativity it would bring.

Otherwise everyone would have bought $15 policies from home on the same basis - and all insurance companies would offer them - they don't. Why?

This does not mean they should absorb the cost - there are other ways of managing it - this way is just not credible.

If this is nonsensical to you, state why you think so rather than just dismissing it as "moaning".

[RBOP]

Why don't the public hospitals just ask for a credit card like the private hospitals do?

[hellodolly]

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents.

So why isn't the motorcycle insurance covering it then???? These absolute numpties can't work out that this isn't a zero sum game.

They have to shoulder 5mn baht's worth of unpaid bills, but what was their net revenue take from those who did pay? At 50k for an xray, plaster cast and a bye bye with a load of painkillers and antibiotics, that is 100 people who didn't pay. If you assume that 90% did pay, that means they would have taken in, 50k x 900 = 45,000,000

On the basis that most Thai's would get that service either from social funds, or the 30 baht, what would they prefer? Now they will need a pot of 100,000 tourists paying 500k each to cover the costs of 1000, assuming that only 1% go to hospital? Hmmmm. Quite a few assumptions there, but add in the fact that now lots more tourists are going to try to claim stuff that they would have paid for before, this is why, countries DON'T often go down this route.

serlli

Lost tourist revenue is not an issue in this- those farangs who refuse to buy travel or health insurance and who leave hospitals without paying tend to come from low income demographics- the type who moan about 5 baht beer price differences, complain about over charging at noodle stalls etc- these type spend hardly anything (the bulk of their holiday spending going on the air fare over).

Combined these people still spend a lot more than 200 million baht/year though. And don't forget that processing time, paperwork and "uninsurable" issues for elderly rich people with pre existing conditions may prevent a few high income earners from coming too. So yes, it has a lot to do with lost tourism revenue!

It will in no way take away 200 million baht from the amount spent by tourists. As for high earners I can't see them not having it already.

The people who go to Cambodia to avoid paying it will spend a lot more than the cost of insurance when they have to come back to Thailand for medical treatment.

I believe that Thai at Heart puts forth a reasionably argument for not supplying a policy on landing.

"lots more tourists are going to try to claim stuff that they would have paid for before, this is why, countries DON'T often go down this route."

[fxe1200]

500 baht won't buy adequate insurance for anything serious but a nice earner anyway ...

In Germany you can buy a decent travel insurance with the full coverage, including the transportation back, for as low as 6 Euros or 240 THB per annum. The insurance is valid for a max. of 70 days in any foreign country, starting with the entry. The rate reflects the probability of tourists becoming ill, or get involved in an accident.

Therefore an insurance rate of 500 THB is another big business for Thailand, also considering, that most tourists stay two to four weeks only.

[wolf5370]

I have a real feeling this is just bluster that will see the following:

- I believe a rule will be created that visitors must have insurance (forget checks or enforcement for the moment).

- Next hospitals will no longer be able to claim for unpaid bills where there is no proof of insurance (of course if there was insurance it would in most cases have paid the bill anyway - only very few over limit claims that are unpaid would have to be paid out from the government).

That is, the government's real aim (IMO) is to limit the ability of hospitals to claim unpaid fees back from the government by moving the onus on them to check insurance policies.

[wolf5370]

500 baht won't buy adequate insurance for anything serious but a nice earner anyway ...

In Germany you can buy a decent travel insurance with the full coverage, including the transportation back, for as low as 6 Euros or 240 THB per annum. The insurance is valid for a max. of 70 days in any foreign country, starting with the entry. The rate reflects the probability of tourists becoming ill, or get involved in an accident.

Therefore an insurance rate of 500 THB is another big business for Thailand, also considering, that most tourists stay two to four weeks only.

Is that policy available to everyone regardless of age or medical history?

[tingtongfarang]

Why don't the public hospitals just ask for a credit card like the private hospitals do?

Might surprise you but many foreigners refuse to have credit cards...some i know who have just refuse to bring them to thailand.

[wolf5370]

Why don't the public hospitals just ask for a credit card like the private hospitals do?

Might surprise you but many foreigners refuse to have credit cards...some i know who have just refuse to bring them to thailand.

Yep - I don't have a credit card, cut them up years ago and certainly have no desire for one now. Mrs has a couple with low limits that she maintains and pays for herself. I have debit cards though.

[Suradit69]

If they charge 500 baht for an insurance package, the hospitals will end up being over run with tourists that will take an attitude that they paid for the policy so they are entitled to treatment.

This is going to back fire big time.

It would probably be for major medical expenses. Something that only kicks in for charges over Baht 10,000 or even more. And/or possibly only for medical events where treatment must be given because of a life threatening event.

I doubt it would offer any compensation for someone who wants to get his/her teeth whitened or to have a mole removed from a shoulder or even to treat someone trivial like a slight cut to the forehead when bouncing around in a songthaew , just to name a few random medical conditions.

If it's extended to include resident expats who have acquired extensions of stay based on money in the bank or monthly income, the claim that they are suddenly unable to meet minor medical expenses would hardly pass scrutiny.

[tingtongfarang]

Why don't the public hospitals just ask for a credit card like the private hospitals do?

Might surprise you but many foreigners refuse to have credit cards...some i know who have just refuse to bring them to thailand.

Yep - I don't have a credit card, cut them up years ago and certainly have no desire for one now. Mrs has a couple with low limits that she maintains and pays for herself. I have debit cards though.

I had a credit card when i arrived here from a branch of the citibank in europe, the three times i tried to use it the transaction did,nt go though and my account was blocked,

Each time it cost me quite an amount and 2 hours of calls to get my account open again,

On questioning why i was told each time...thailand is a very high risk country for credit card fraud and scams from government officials....the computer will block your account each time your card is used in thailand automatic.

[Thai at Heart]

If they charge 500 baht for an insurance package, the hospitals will end up being over run with tourists that will take an attitude that they paid for the policy so they are entitled to treatment.

This is going to back fire big time.

It would probably be for major medical expenses. Something that only kicks in for charges over Baht 10,000 or even more. And/or possibly only for medical events where treatment must be given because of a life threatening event.

I doubt it would offer any compensation for someone who wants to get his/her teeth whitened or to have a mole removed from a shoulder or even to treat someone trivial like a slight cut to the forehead when bouncing around in a songthaew , just to name a few random medical conditions.

If it's extended to include resident expats who have acquired extensions of stay based on money in the bank or monthly income, the claim that they are suddenly unable to meet minor medical expenses would hardly pass scrutiny.

A reasonable statement. However, how much of a rider? 10k? 20k.

One night in hospital, say emergency treatment, consultation, food, medication etc can easily be 20k. So, the government covers only the last 10k, when the tourist may have been more than able to pay the 20k.

I just think it's unenforceable and to provide a reasonable cover for only 500 baht is very difficult. Bear in mind there are millions of business people coming in and and out of Bangkok 3 or 4 times per month.....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

500B for a travel insurance is very cheap. The result will be that people not buy a travel insurance in their home country, but buy one on arrival in Thailand.

The news article doesn't say...but I suspect, the insurance the government is thinking about is the standard kind of travel insurance, which covers emergency things and accidents, but not routine or non emergency medical care.

Given it would only apply in Thailand where medical costs especially at public hospitals are relatively low, I can see travel policies being offered here for that price...especially for travel lasting a week or two of typical duration.

[elzach]

However, some tourism-business operators warn that this measure might keep away travellers as well as tarnish the country's image.

I'm surprised that most of the comments here are about whether a compulsory travel insurance is right or not and about the possible profit scheme.

For me the key issue is that quote. THAT is the "message" of this scheme: foreigners are having way too many accidents in Thailand.

I can see now foreign media reporting: "You don't need medical insurance to go to Irag, but you MUST have it if you wanna go to Thailand".

Congrats Tourism Ministry, talk about shooting themselves in the foot.

[nisakiman]

I think the idea of a mandatory 500 Baht insurance might be greeted with resentment by those that already have insurance, but I think if it was done on a 'trust' basis it could work well. All it would need is plenty of multilingual signage in immigration telling people that if they don't hold insurance, they must buy the 500 Baht voucher, valid for one month. They could have machines like they had in DM for the departure tax, so it wouldn't cause delays. Have them at all entry points, air, land and sea. The insurance would only be valid for accident and emergency, so 'medical tourism' wouldn't be an issue.

Although there would be some chancers who wouldn't buy it, I honestly think the majority would consider 500 a small price to pay for peace of mind. I certainly would if I arrived without insurance. The incidences of tourists not paying hospitals would drop dramatically if they could present a valid certificate from the airport machine, immigration wouldn't have to waste time checking, and the medical costs would be more than covered.

And if you are doing visa runs every month, you just have to budget an extra 500 every time for a new insurance certificate. It is a small sum of money, and as I say, I think the vast majority would happily pay it without being coerced into it.

[skorchio]

Jasis I am surprised they are getting upset about 5 million quid. I was expecting some disaster number that was making a dent in local economies

But 5 million quid annually, half a pound per visitor? keeniow springs to mind. Tightarsed minister should reconsider this, 50 or 100 million quid OK something needs to be done. But this is pittance and when offset against the revenue per visitor, I think they are on the wrong track here.

And I must say I think the number is very low. It may be the case that it is not really the money, but the use of service which is placing strain on the public system, which lets face it, is for Thais.

[RBOP]

Why don't the public hospitals just ask for a credit card like the private hospitals do?

Might surprise you but many foreigners refuse to have credit cards...some i know who have just refuse to bring them to thailand.

Most bookings, hotels, car rentals etc require credit card

[Sherrinvale]

TOURISM

Thailand mulls compulsory travel insurance

Bamrung Amnatcharoenrit,

Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Tourism and Sports Ministry is planning to make it compulsory for all foreign tourists to have travel insurance before entering the Kingdom because unpaid bills are putting a huge strain on cash-strapped public hospitals in major destinations, particularly Phuket.

However, some tourism-business operators warn that this measure might keep away travellers as well as tarnish the country's image.

In a telephone interview with The Nation, Tourism and Sports Minister Somsak Pureesrisak said the ministry was readying to implement the regulation to cut down on foreign tourists' unpaid medical bills that cost the country more than Bt200 million annually.

Somsak is discussing the matter with Public Health Minister Pradit Sintavanarong and Deputy Prime Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong.

Costing "Bt500"

"They agree that foreign tourists should buy an insurance package, which would cost about Bt500," he said.

This would first be applied to tourists who apply for visa at Thai diplomatic missions overseas. The ministry has yet to decide whether this would apply to those who do not need a visa to enter the country.

According to Yuthachai Soonthronrattnavate, president of the Association of Domestic Travel, tourists coming to Thailand on tour packages are already required to buy travel insurance, which allows them to claim Bt1 million for death and up to Bt500,000 for injuries.

Based on the Tourism Ministry's data, up to 6.19 million tourists, or about 28 per cent of the total 22.35 visitors, came to as part of a tour package last year. The Kingdom earned Bt984 billion in revenue from tourist spending in 2012, and expects to earn as much as Bt2.2 trillion from visitors in 2015.

Meanwhile, Phuket - a top travel destination - has had to shoulder about Bt5 million a year in medical costs for foreigners who don't have insurance or are unable to pay for the services, said Dr Bancha Khakhon, chief of the Phuket provincial public health office.

"Whether they can pay or not, it's our obligation to save their lives first," he said.

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents. Some foreign patients who have health insurance are able to receive emergency treatment at private hospitals but for those who do not have are advised to seek treatment at public hospitals.

On top of the unpaid bills, the Public Health Ministry had to cater a special service for foreign patients: through medical mediators, their problems at public and private hospitals would be resolved within 90 days. In 2012, 59 per cent of foreign patients filed complaints to the ministry, mostly about service quality at clinics.

Bancha supported the Tourism Ministrys plan, saying this would help public hospitals financially in the long term.

But Yuthachai of the Association of Domestic Travel disagreed with such an initiative and said it should rather be a ''voluntary'' measure, not compulsory.

He expected complaints from foreign tourists if this takes effect. While saying that it is too early to estimate the negative impact on the number of tourist arrivals, he said this will surely create a barrier.

Noting that Thailand would have a problem in enforcing this rule on tourists travelling without tour packages, he said the regulation is sending a negative message to the world that accidents are high in Thailand.

He also noted that Thai travellers do not need travel insurance if taking trips to Singapore, Hong Kong, or Malaysia.

He insisted that most foreign individual travellers can take care of themselves. For the minorities, Thailands third-party motor insurance scheme should be enough to foot their bills.

"Before, there was a counter at the airport to sell travel insurance policies to visitors. That is no longer needed as the living quality in Thailand improves while public health services in Thailand has been recognised internationally," he said.

-- The Nation 2013-08-13

[fxe1200]

500 baht won't buy adequate insurance for anything serious but a nice earner anyway ...

In Germany you can buy a decent travel insurance with the full coverage, including the transportation back, for as low as 6 Euros or 240 THB per annum. The insurance is valid for a max. of 70 days in any foreign country, starting with the entry. The rate reflects the probability of tourists becoming ill, or get involved in an accident.

Therefore an insurance rate of 500 THB is another big business for Thailand, also considering, that most tourists stay two to four weeks only.

Is that policy available to everyone regardless of age or medical history?

Ok, now it is up now 8.50 Euro per year, for unlimited journeys up to 6 weeks, starting point must be Germany, age up to 59 years, from 60 years onwards it is 17.00 Euro

Here re the details:

http://www.dkv.com/produkte-auslandskrankenversicherung-104144.html#details

and here the fine print:

http://www.dkv.com/productdb_img/pdf/G334.pdf

[MB1]

500 baht won't buy adequate insurance for anything serious but a nice earner anyway ...

In Germany you can buy a decent travel insurance with the full coverage, including the transportation back, for as low as 6 Euros or 240 THB per annum. The insurance is valid for a max. of 70 days in any foreign country, starting with the entry. The rate reflects the probability of tourists becoming ill, or get involved in an accident.

Therefore an insurance rate of 500 THB is another big business for Thailand, also considering, that most tourists stay two to four weeks only.

Are you sure that the prices you give are not per day to insure, 6 euro per annum seems way too cheap to me..

I find it hard to believe an annual travel Insurance policy is only 6 euros per year for cover.

The cheapest I see on World Nomads for residents of Germany for a 12 month policy is 859 euro for the standard policy, rising to 1199 euro for the explore policy.

http://www.worldnomads.com/travel-insurance/prices-and-benefits-country.aspx?Country=DEU

As for the 500 baht for insurance in Thailand, probably someone just crunched some numbers and came up with x amount and said look how much extra we could make, probably will all blow over and nothing will come of it, BUT TIT, so maybe not.....

Edited August 13, 2013 by MB1

[dcutman]

lets put this into a different perspective. This news today from TAT on another thread. Not sure how accurate these numbers are and much dispute how they are arrived at. Non the less.

The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) has disclosed that 12.75 million people visited Thailand in the first 6 months of 2013, a 20 percent increase year-on-year, expressing confidence that Thailand will have seen a total of 26.1 million travelers visiting the country when 2013 draws to a close; 5 million higher than its previously anticipated figure. Based on the Tourism Ministry's data, up to 6.19 million tourists, or about 28 per cent of the total 22.35 visitors, came to as part of a tour package last year. The Kingdom earned Bt984 billion in revenue from tourist spending in 2012, and expects to earn as much as Bt2.2 trillion from visitors in 2015.

At these numbers the government hospitals have to extend free service to the tune of Bt 7.66 per tourist. Yes that is bt7 and 66 satang. This must be so pain full. Or there is a insurance scam brewing

Edited August 13, 2013 by dcutman

[zydeco]

Why don't the public hospitals just ask for a credit card like the private hospitals do?

Might surprise you but many foreigners refuse to have credit cards...some i know who have just refuse to bring them to thailand.

Most bookings, hotels, car rentals etc require credit card

Only if you let them bully you. I usually buy air, hotel, and any associated needs through my Thai travel agent. With cash transfer. Only one time has anyone tried to pry a credit card out of me--the Sheraton in KL. I refused. Then, they asked for a $200 deposit. I refused. Then, the manager broke down and said, okay, but you can't use the gym. Then, when I called the travel agent, the phone started working and before it was all over the Sheraton was offering me free dinner for the five remaining days of my stay.