Thailand mulls compulsory travel insurance for all foreign tourists

[tonneke breda]

I will get a new liver and dental fixtures, and that only for 500 baht, let's go!!!!!

[butsarakam]

Its not the tourists that are not footing the bills. Its the free medical service that the government are providing the locals running into serious financial problems. For those who had been to local hospital should know, they usually collect the money before they treat the patients. So, please be realistic, the Thai government, we are the one who bring in money, not the one causing problems to the hospital!

[Cloggie]

No insurance or no money - have a nice day, what it wrong with that?

They have money for a plane ticket, money for beer and booze and not to forget for 'girls' but the bill for the hospital, they can't pay!

Can't go to Seven Eleven / Tesco Lotus or Big C and say - sorry have no money can you please send the bill to your government.

[ovenman]

Anybody wanna bet that Shin E-Z-Medi-insure or something similar will be the company selling these 500 baht insurance policies?

[harrry]

Anybody wanna bet that Shin E-Z-Medi-insure or something similar will be the company selling these 500 baht insurance policies?

Probably selling them yes. Bankrolling them and risking losses no.

[ExpatJ]

Good idea- since there is a subset of idiots who refuse to buy travel insurance.

[Thai at Heart]

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents.

So why isn't the motorcycle insurance covering it then???? These absolute numpties can't work out that this isn't a zero sum game.

They have to shoulder 5mn baht's worth of unpaid bills, but what was their net revenue take from those who did pay? At 50k for an xray, plaster cast and a bye bye with a load of painkillers and antibiotics, that is 100 people who didn't pay. If you assume that 90% did pay, that means they would have taken in, 50k x 900 = 45,000,000

On the basis that most Thai's would get that service either from social funds, or the 30 baht, what would they prefer? Now they will need a pot of 100,000 tourists paying 500k each to cover the costs of 1000, assuming that only 1% go to hospital? Hmmmm. Quite a few assumptions there, but add in the fact that now lots more tourists are going to try to claim stuff that they would have paid for before, this is why, countries DON'T often go down this route.

[ovenman]

Anybody wanna bet that Shin E-Z-Medi-insure or something similar will be the company selling these 500 baht insurance policies?

Probably selling them yes. Bankrolling them and risking losses no.

I can see potential for an awful lot of exclusions to these policies, e.g. the motorbike accidents that are claimed in the OP to be "most of the patients in the province" (i.e. Phuket).

"Do you have a valid license to drive a motorbike in Thailand...?" "Oh, ho hab?" "Sorry, insurance no cover."

[darrendsd]

Why are people blaming Thais for this or is just turning into another Thai bashing thread, a common theme on Thai Visa

Facts : People come here with no insurance, have a accident/get sick, go to a government hospital because the private ones will not admit them with no insurance or money to pay the bill, they then leave without paying the bill leaving the Thai population to pay it via their taxes

Is it just me or does anyone else think that is not acceptable? What kind of idiots visit a place like Thailand with no insurance?

How on earth can anyone apart from the usual Thai bashers on TV not think that the government must come up with a way to stop this happening?

[ExpatJ]

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents.

So why isn't the motorcycle insurance covering it then???? These absolute numpties can't work out that this isn't a zero sum game.

They have to shoulder 5mn baht's worth of unpaid bills, but what was their net revenue take from those who did pay? At 50k for an xray, plaster cast and a bye bye with a load of painkillers and antibiotics, that is 100 people who didn't pay. If you assume that 90% did pay, that means they would have taken in, 50k x 900 = 45,000,000

On the basis that most Thai's would get that service either from social funds, or the 30 baht, what would they prefer? Now they will need a pot of 100,000 tourists paying 500k each to cover the costs of 1000, assuming that only 1% go to hospital? Hmmmm. Quite a few assumptions there, but add in the fact that now lots more tourists are going to try to claim stuff that they would have paid for before, this is why, countries DON'T often go down this route.

Lost tourist revenue is not an issue in this- those farangs who refuse to buy travel or health insurance and who leave hospitals without paying tend to come from low income demographics- the type who moan about 5 baht beer price differences, complain about over charging at noodle stalls etc- these type spend hardly anything (the bulk of their holiday spending going on the air fare over).

[canardo]

500 THB rings a bell, wasn't the airport departure tax once 500 THB as well?

[wolf5370]

Why are people blaming Thais for this or is just turning into another Thai bashing thread, a common theme on Thai Visa

Facts : People come here with no insurance, have a accident/get sick, go to a government hospital because the private ones will not admit them with no insurance or money to pay the bill, they then leave without paying the bill leaving the Thai population to pay it via their taxes

Is it just me or does anyone else think that is not acceptable? What kind of idiots visit a place like Thailand with no insurance?

How on earth can anyone apart from the usual Thai bashers on TV not think that the government must come up with a way to stop this happening?

As with all the other such posts here, you are missing the point by a mile. It is not that we think tourists should be allowed free medical - or that we blame the Thais (<deleted>?) - or even Thai bashing - its stupid policy bashing. Read some of the posts above and you will quickly see how the 200m these freeloaders are costing Thailand is a spit in the ocean compared to the damage they will cause with such a policy. As usual it is a knee jerk reaction to some figures without context without thinking through the problem or solutions properly. This can all be handled without forced medical insurance (which is very difficult to administrate - and could not be done with a 500b carte-blanche one-size-fits-all policy) and without the negative publicity or exclusory policy this encourages (indeed locking out many of those quality tourists out there that are too old to get insurance - but can afford medical treatment).

Disagreement with silly policies - and this government is drowning in them - is not Thai bashing, often it is quite the reverse!

[wolf5370]

500 THB rings a bell, wasn't the airport departure tax once 500 THB as well?

Yeah though it went up to 1,000 baht before it was moved to airport landing tax (I.e. added to the ticket price instead) - and a much better place to collect a fund to cover this too IMHO (who will notice an extra $15 on a $1000 flight?).

[wolf5370]

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents.

So why isn't the motorcycle insurance covering it then???? These absolute numpties can't work out that this isn't a zero sum game.

They have to shoulder 5mn baht's worth of unpaid bills, but what was their net revenue take from those who did pay? At 50k for an xray, plaster cast and a bye bye with a load of painkillers and antibiotics, that is 100 people who didn't pay. If you assume that 90% did pay, that means they would have taken in, 50k x 900 = 45,000,000

On the basis that most Thai's would get that service either from social funds, or the 30 baht, what would they prefer? Now they will need a pot of 100,000 tourists paying 500k each to cover the costs of 1000, assuming that only 1% go to hospital? Hmmmm. Quite a few assumptions there, but add in the fact that now lots more tourists are going to try to claim stuff that they would have paid for before, this is why, countries DON'T often go down this route.

Lost tourist revenue is not an issue in this- those farangs who refuse to buy travel or health insurance and who leave hospitals without paying tend to come from low income demographics- the type who moan about 5 baht beer price differences, complain about over charging at noodle stalls etc- these type spend hardly anything (the bulk of their holiday spending going on the air fare over).

And you know this how? Go on admit it, you just guessed that to be the case - not thinking of all those thousands that can not get insurance; that ended up with bills over their claim limit but had insurance; immigrant workers; cost due to inflated/overcharged and/or corrupt claims by hospitals (to government for unpaid bills), etc, etc, etc.

Even if you were correct - a catch-all-policy - IS going to affect tourism regardless of the cause that initiated that policy.

Edited August 13, 2013 by wolf5370

[WhizBang]

Another government minister has a brain fart.

[PoodMaiDai]

I'm sure the double, triple, and quadruple pricing some of the hospitals charge foreigners will cover those who don't pay.

[Misterwhisper]

I think it might be quite beneficial for tourists having to take out a compulsory travel insurance considering all the stabbing, slashing, beating up, mugging, drunken brawls, being run over by jet skis and motorcycle racers, train derailing and bus overturning that's been going on in this country recently, and seems to become ever more frequent.

Problem is how this is going to be organised and monitored. Even more importantly: Who or whose insurance firm is going to be the signatory to millions of compulsory insurance policies every year? My rough guess is it will be a company owned and run by the cousin of the nephew of the classmate of Mr Bigwig-xyz, so the pigs can keep feeding at the trough as they're accustomed (and in their own minds entitled) to.

I fear it's going to turn out just as big a scam as the so-called rice scheme.

Apart from that, every tourist visiting a foreign country and NOT taking out comprehensive travel insurance voluntarily just to save a few bucks at the wrong end (such insurances can be had for as little as $100) is in my opinion an ignorant twit playing with fire. So much can happen: your luggage might get lost, your expensive camera might be stolen or get damaged somehow, you fall seriously ill, have an accident, etc. etc.

[ginjag]

What is all the shouting about ??

Fact -- the hospitals get far more than the figures given that they lose.

I get all my medicines from hospital pharmacy, it gives them extra money, rather than the Hi So private shop. If they are going to carry out this plan, then add a figure to the O visa, retirement visa, all other persons traveling like tourist (ex) 2 weeks--should have to pay it at a travel agent when booking for Thailand. COMPULSORY., Arriving at the Kingdom without, then a counter at point of entry.

[darrendsd]

Why are people blaming Thais for this or is just turning into another Thai bashing thread, a common theme on Thai Visa

Facts : People come here with no insurance, have a accident/get sick, go to a government hospital because the private ones will not admit them with no insurance or money to pay the bill, they then leave without paying the bill leaving the Thai population to pay it via their taxes

Is it just me or does anyone else think that is not acceptable? What kind of idiots visit a place like Thailand with no insurance?

How on earth can anyone apart from the usual Thai bashers on TV not think that the government must come up with a way to stop this happening?

As with all the other such posts here, you are missing the point by a mile. It is not that we think tourists should be allowed free medical - or that we blame the Thais (<deleted>?) - or even Thai bashing - its stupid policy bashing. Read some of the posts above and you will quickly see how the 200m these freeloaders are costing Thailand is a spit in the ocean compared to the damage they will cause with such a policy. As usual it is a knee jerk reaction to some figures without context without thinking through the problem or solutions properly. This can all be handled without forced medical insurance (which is very difficult to administrate - and could not be done with a 500b carte-blanche one-size-fits-all policy) and without the negative publicity or exclusory policy this encourages (indeed locking out many of those quality tourists out there that are too old to get insurance - but can afford medical treatment).

Disagreement with silly policies - and this government is drowning in them - is not Thai bashing, often it is quite the reverse!

I am no missing the point at all

So far one person on this thread has come up with a sensible solution (IMO) of putting this charge on the Airport tax

Most other posters have said this is a bad idea without giving their view on a solution to the problem

How can the majority of posters think this is a bad idea yet have no other suggestions on how to fix this issue?

[Globeman]

Here's an idea... if most of the patients here are treated for motorbike related accidents, then how about enforcing the law that bikes will only be rented to those who possess a valid driving license - that would go a long way to reducing the injuries. So most people's insurance premiums would be going to treat some clown (or clownette) in their 20s who rented a bike without having a clue how to ride it properly, and did so in shorts and flip-flops - sometimes while drunk. Yep, I'm delighted to subsidize stupidity.

[market trader]

Shortfall Costs to Thailand = Bt200,000,000 million annually.

Insurance package, which would cost about Bt500

6.19 of the 22.35 million tourists Have insurance because they are on package

No of people without insurance = 22,350,000 - 6,190,000 = 16,160,000= No of people who will be forced to take insurance

16,160,000 * 500 = 8,080,000,000 Baht

8,080,000,000 - 200,000,000 = profit of 7,880,000,000

Future Earnings potential

Trying to work out the number of visitors in 2015 based on revenue.

2,200,000,000,000/984,000,000 = 2.23 factor

Future profit should be 7,880,000,000 * 2.23 = 17,617,886,178 baht

Nice little earner if you ask me.

Den

Sorry but your numbers are completely wrong. Because once you remove tea money paid to the various government officials you are left with slightly more than bt 200 million.

[DonaldBattles]

As most of the people involved can't even read English let alone understand it how could they verify that you have a travel policy.

In the interest of the tourist, they should be allowed to carry a gun while they are here to protect themselves from the bad guys. Almost all Thai men in Phuket carry a gun why should the tourist not be able to do the same to protect themselves. This might reduce the hospital bills for tourist.

[Dararasmi]

It's a great idea. I hope they implement it. (Paying for my air ticket with my Japanese Visa credit card covers me for my entire stay in Thailand. Not to mention I've got Japanese national medical insurance that also covers everything.)

[ginjag]

Here's an idea... if most of the patients here are treated for motorbike related accidents, then how about enforcing the law that bikes will only be rented to those who possess a valid driving license - that would go a long way to reducing the injuries. So most people's insurance premiums would be going to treat some clown (or clownette) in their 20s who rented a bike without having a clue how to ride it properly, and did so in shorts and flip-flops - sometimes while drunk. Yep, I'm delighted to subsidize stupidity.

Better if we came deaf and dumb, with diamond mines, compulsory 5 star hotels, HAVE to spend 10,000 baht a day, traveled only Thai Airways, agree to rent a jet ski, and hire a tuk tuk every day, to end the holiday must pass through and buy over priced goods at King power.

[kriswillems]

500B for a travel insurance is very cheap. The result will be that people not buy a travel insurance in their home country, but buy one on arrival in Thailand.

When this is a real insurance, huge amount of tourist will go for free medical care in the Thai hospitals and they will not want to pay for it anymore and they will not let the insurance of their home country pay. 500B can never cover those costs.

Also, I've you compare the rate of not-paying tourist with the rate of not-paying Thais - who's going to be higher?

In the end the Thai hospitals should be happy with tourists, because most of them do pay the bill and they go to more expensive hospitals. So, the average profit the hospitals they get from tourists for sure exceeds 200 million baht.

Most probably this 500B will be just a contribution to the "uninsured tourists"-fund, which is supposed to pay for tourists that can't pay. And it will not be an insurance. If they want to implement this, they better add it to the air-port tax.

Edited August 13, 2013 by kriswillems

[berg1666]

The only way anything like this could ever work is if it was included in the airfare at point of sale.

Pay for your ticket with your Gold/Platinum card that has insurance included? Cool, verified.

Pay another way? Show us a valid insurance certificate.

But even then you could pick a thousand holes in it. People who cross by land, people who fly one way and then buy an onward ticket in Thailand etc.

I am sure every country that has this issue has looked long and hard at how to deal with it, but no-one seems to have come up with a solution. They just have to realise it is a cost of doing tourism business.

[belg]

20.000.000 visitors x 500 baht = 10 billion

... 30% in brown envelopes, will make a nice new village & benz & mia noi for some people

[zydeco]

And every time someone makes a visa run, that will be another extra 500 baht, right? That could add up nicely to those guys on 15 day visas. (They are 15 days, aren't they?)

[monkeycountry]

"In a telephone interview with The Nation, Tourism and Sports Minister Somsak Pureesrisak said the ministry was readying to implement the regulation to cut down on foreign tourists' unpaid medical bills that cost the country more than Bt200 million annually."

With 20+ million tourists, this amounts to 10 baht per tourist. Apparently a sum so large that Thailand wants to further inconvenience all tourists and potentially scare a few away. A quick calculation will reveal that if just 1 in 3,000 tourists (an estimate) does not come to Thailand because of this, then Thailand will lose money, not gain money, by implementing this idiotic plan.

If it really has to be done, then forget inconveniencing tourists with time and paper consuming insurance checks. Simply increase the landing fee/tax (or border crossing fee if any?) by 10 baht per passenger and use the 10 baht to reimburse the hospitals.

As with most government agencies in Thailand, both the tourists and Thais would be better off if the agencies were simply closed down. They generally do a lot more harm than good - and we have to pay them to do it!!!

Edited August 13, 2013 by monkeycountry

[ronthai]

Tourist revenue in 2012 was 984,000,000,000 bht.

Cost of medical care was 200,000,000 bht or an insignificant 0.02% of revenue.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And even a 1% drop in tourist numbers is a massive hit on total income. Surely these guys crunched the numbers?

Of course they crunched the numbers. They need to know how much is going to go into their pockets