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How Much Dosh Needed To Retire At Age 50?


How much dosh needed to retire at age 50?  

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Ok I just did my own unbiased calculation with compound interest and inflation factored in.

According to my calculator ....realisticly just about 30 mil baths you should be quite comfortable until your last moon in thailand.

And I agree with the posters that said most people here do not have 40 mil at 50. If you do then you obviously done something right in your life and shouldn't/wouldn't feel the need to stretch your money oversea but only vacationing.

Let's face it most expats came to thailand to stretch their money. Don’t be confuse with what you want to have VS the real number of minimum dosh you should have when you’re 50 in order to retire quite comfortably in Thailand....without working.

Of course you would need less if you're planning to work or doing something to generate extra income while in thailand

Just ignore all those expats who’re living in jet-set lifestyle or those who always love to drink and party with their rented friends….these expats are not the norm but only a small portion of majority expats here in thailand. Most expats here are living a normal and quiet lifestyle.

Edited by BKK90210
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Of course, we all want a million USD and more. But the question is about need, not want.

OK, I will admit the whole premise of the question/poll is that there really is no correct answer. It is so very personal based on countless factors. But we can all do what we can to make sensible life decisions.

Regarding DEATH, maybe this is best for a new separate thread. Or, maybe not, because after death that 1 million baht or 1 million dollars or 100 million dollars is gonna mean NADA BUPKIS.

Edited by Thaiquila
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To address the question of "What happens to you overe here when you are no longer able to take care of yourself"

In LOS the cost of a full time nurse or two would be far less than you would pay in the countries that we hail from. Having said that I would hazzaed a guess that the majority of us have partners younger than ourselves so the question will probably not arise.

Personally I think I have enough to see me out, based on the probibility that I will live another 30 years.. but you just don't know, I beleive in being careful with my money but not mean. The first year I spent in Thailand I spent over 6m baht. (in the days when money was NO object and I still had a business back home) .Last year I spent 2.3m and this year I aim to get it down to 1.5m.. I cant see how I could possibly live on less.

But thats just a personal thing really.

TP

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My target for retirement at 50 would actually be Baht 80 million plus. I plan to semi-retire at 55 and think that Baht 40 million would not be enough. I plan to have fun , not sit around and crunch numbers , budget and worry.

Some can retire at Baht 5 million , but I won't. :D

:o

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One day, in a rare serious moment, I tried to explain to my (Thai) wife what it was like to have so much money that you could buy essentially anything you wanted and go anywhere your heart desired. Then I tried to explain how such a life, in and of itself, got boring after a while. New toys were just like the old toys, and once you've seen enough of the world, well, you've seen it. You need to find something more meaningful to do. I tried to explain to her how I decided to trade money for time and freedom.

I don't think she got it. It's something you have to experience. Some wealthy people never get it either. Sure, you need money to survive. And it's important to have a safe and comfortable home and other necessities of life. Sometimes I wish my life could be reduced to the simplicity of pursuing "fun". I use to be able to live that way. But now I'm trying to find something else.

As my grandmother (wise woman) use to say, "Richer or poorer, it's nice to have money." But everyone has to decide how much is enough, and how much you're willing to give up for it.

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I did want to reply to few of you, and I decide not to! ( because think it is to personal at time ) and I come back to my decision.

Firstly I would like to ask : If you are single, what is the age to stop harvesting for money?

One reply said not a lot have see 40 million baht, well I hope many of you did see it!

You buy your own house and a few more and you are much over it!

In my case I came / retired in Thailand at 40 with a nice pecule behind me, the last 8 years a boom on property and shares make it even higher! But I never cash up on the properties or anything, not sure when I will call it quite! Still have risk factors with assets !

Many I presume are asset rich but cash poor phenomena with a portfolio with diverse assets in it ! when is the time I life to transfer it as liquidity ?

Once I said to someone, to have money is just a peace of mind to know it is here for emergency or really want something, she reply money is here to spend!

I really find, to have 40 million and over is not so hard to achieve if you have plan well younger!

My plan is looking at my life at 55 year old and to decide my next move .

The secret to make money is to have a good income and know how to develop it or be born rich.

I did vote for 35 million, just it sound right to me, if you get sick and need to have full time help and all you need!

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If I invest to get a long term rate of return of 8%+ per year then my money should keep up with inflation and never run out with a 4% withdrawal rate. Most pension funds assume a long term rate of return of about 8% from their diversified portfolios. So it comes down to how much will I spend.

Monthly Annual Investment 4% of Investment

Expense Expense Needed Withdrawal Rate

60,000 720,000 18,000,000 720,000

70,000 840,000 21,000,000 840,000

80,000 960,000 24,000,000 960,000

90,000 1,080,000 27,000,000 1,080,000

100,000 1,200,000 30,000,000 1,200,000

110,000 1,320,000 33,000,000 1,320,000

120,000 1,440,000 36,000,000 1,440,000

125,000 1,500,000 37,500,000 1,500,000

I can inflate to get to then year baht but as long as I have that 4% spread between my 8% investment rate of return and the 4% withdrawal rate I should have long term inflation at 4% covered and I shouldn't run out of money. If inflation is higher my investment rate of return may also be higher too. I think its critical though to get that 8% rate of return on my investments so I am going to have to have exposure to mid and small cap stocks to get that return and not just a bank account.

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I will keep it simple I am 59 this Sunday 23rd April I ticked the 40 million box.

I have been in the financial business for 25 years, devorced 6 years ago ( paid half over to my ex wife)

Now retired in Bangkok (first 8 months) as many have said, better to have more than less. It really does give you choices. The first one was, can I afford to walk away from my unhappy marrage of 18 years. The answer was yes, the money made it that way. I know some people will say, No, the money didn't help you, because with out the money you would have worked harder in the marrage.

In my case nothing would have help it, it was over. I think many stay in there bad relationships because they can not afford to walk away.

I was lucky to plan for my retirement, because I was trained to do so with my job. I am still working the same job (semi retired) for the last 5+ years.

Trust me guys, 40 million is close enough to the truth.

Maybe, because at the last count 38% voted that way. Are they, that is the 38% dreamers?

Many things before you get to 50+ years can take your money away, so plan for more than less.

Keep saving :o The rainy day may happen more times than one time

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I want to add my two satangs on the actual survey question.

No doubt, more is better, more equals more choices, more freedom, less worry, etc. etc.

But back to the real world, how much is ten or twenty extra years of working at a job you don't like worth? (If you love your work, ignore that question).

And to the people with 40 million plus, fantastic, but I do believe most of you will move on to the next world with much of this money unspent. So what was the point?

My vote on the survey is that for a comfortable, modest life level you would need 20 to 25 mill baht if you had no future pension, and 10 to 15 million baht if you expect a future pension. For retirement in the US, double those figures (at least).

Edited by Thaiquila
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everybody has different needs and one size doesnt fit all. The big unknown is future health. That can wreck anyones plans very easily. I have no intention of being the richest corpse in the graveyard but I would like to sleep at night without bills. In answer to those that put 5M perhaps if there were no debts, loans, health was great and you weren't in to consumption for consumptions sake you could lead a satisfying quiet up country life. The problems would only come if circumstances changed or you tired of the life. I hate debt and dont owe a penny. I prefer that to a more expensive lifestyle and financial worries.

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I love my job. Each to there own. But both my parents are still alive at 87 and with my help at times enjoy life. So if I am lucky like them to live to there current age. That is nearly 29 years of spending for me. So I still think I am in the real world 40 MILLION :o

By the way, if I had done what the government had told me to do over the last 40 years in New Zealand. Which was to believe there so called retirement plan (which I still pay into through my taxes) that I would get a pension at 65. I would now be in the sh-t. :D

Over there now in New Zealand if you earn or have investments over a certain amount, it is all taxed away and you do not get any thing. (government retirement plan I mean)

I think it is better to be your own boss than some ones eles puppet :D

Edited by warriors
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Well I'd just like to thank all you guys for setting my mind at ease.

I'm just turning 60 and my monthly paycheck will stop in 3 months.

Lost half my savings in a divorce 3 years ago. :o

But I've got my Thai house and car fully paid for, and I'm way above 40 million in investments and pension pot.

And I've been having sleepless nights worrying about it. :D

I guess I'm just a natural worrier.

Thanks again guys, and good luck to all of you. :D

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Well I'd just like to thank all you guys for setting my mind at ease.

I'm just turning 60 and my monthly paycheck will stop in 3 months.

Lost half my savings in a divorce 3 years ago. :D

But I've got my Thai house and car fully paid for, and I'm way above 40 million in investments and pension pot.

And I've been having sleepless nights worrying about it. :D

I guess I'm just a natural worrier.

Thanks again guys, and good luck to all of you. :D

You are welcome I can relate to you. Sleep well. You are well set up, learn from your past mistakes and do not give the other half away this time :o

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So I guess this is turning into a rich guys pat on the back party.

I can't imagine quitting with 5 million baht, but I bet those guys know where the best deal on Chang is.

I guess I want to emphasize that the last time I checked, the vast majority of the older folks in the world have much less than a mill USD, and they gotta cope too, and lots of them do quite well, thank you very much.

Edited by Thaiquila
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Calculating the funds you need to retire is an important issue.

Retiring in Thailand is a good idea, I think. It is cheap, has good health facilities that are getting even better, the climate is warm, and it is just a great country :D

How much money do you need? 1000$ a month would be a good retirement figure. You would not need to be scrimping and saving to stay within budget, and could put a little bit away each month for surprises or special events.

When planning for retirement, plan on living forever. You want that 1000$ coming in till you are 300 million years old.

It is not difficult to calculate. You know what you need: 12,000$ a year.

Now, where are you going to get it, guaranteed? Bonds guarantee your income. Lets talk government bonds. The people of the united states of america guarantee to pay you approx 5% a year.

http://news.ft.com/markets/bonds/emerging

A US Govt bond is considered about the safest possible financial investment, and is often used as a benchmark when considering other possible investments.

If you decide you will put all your savings into US Govt bonds (Vanguard Mutual funds provide an extremely cost effective vehicle for investments, by the way) then the thinking goes like this:

My lump sum is giving me 12,000$ interest a year.

My interest rate is 5%

So, 12,000$ is 5% of my lump sum.

So, what is the size of my lump sum?

If 5% of my lump is 12,000$, then 1% is 12,000/5= 2400$

1% of my lump sum is 2400$, so 100% of my lump sum is 240,000$

Therefore, you need a 240,000$ lump sum to retire on 1000$ a month.

However, prices might go up in the future...your lump sum isn't growing to compensate for the increases in prices, the inflation. Your spending might change, too; for example, you might start spending money on nurses :o

You could live on 500$ a month though, if not in the city, and living frugally. So then you would only need 120,000$ as a lump sum, and you could live forever.

Or you could consider investing in the stockmarket, which historically has provided a much higher return than bonds. (the best sweet spot between risk / return balancing your portfolio has been 20% Bonds 80% stock, iirc. Don't have the figures to hand._)

You could also do some light work, and get paid for it, which might help.

Invest in your health. Now. Light exercise and lots of it.

:D

And go veggie! It is great, once you are in the swing.

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Right now i'm 52. I work for the US Govt in a civil service capacity. I expect to retire at 60 or 61 with about 100k in my 401k and expect to get about an additional 100k from the sale of my house and I will have my US Navy retirement still intact with 3-4 percent annual cost of living adjustments. By 62 my civil service pension and social security will kick in adding about 1500USD to my existing portfolio. So all told i'll be pulling down about 3K per month which i think equates to about 120,000 thb per month. Do you think i'll have enough?

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Navyguy,

YES, you would have enough. The cola feature is especially nice and social security still has some kind of cola also.

And aren't you eligible for US military hospital care in Thailand?

Sweet.

Edited by Thaiquila
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Yeehi, that was an interesting perspective.

You are so right that the best investment you can make is to take care of your health, though the veggie thing isn't for everybody.

I don't think there is any rational reason to expect to live 300 million years. I get your point, that it is good to be safe.

Your model has some merit, but personally, I would generally suggest increasing the risk a notch (like you said, mix stocks and bonds) and go for a higher return, and also take a small cost of living increase each year. Otherwise, a person would be setting themselves up for a very poor life 10 years down the road.

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Right now i'm 52. I work for the US Govt in a civil service capacity. I expect to retire at 60 or 61 with about 100k in my 401k and expect to get about an additional 100k from the sale of my house and I will have my US Navy retirement still intact with 3-4 percent annual cost of living adjustments. By 62 my civil service pension and social security will kick in adding about 1500USD to my existing portfolio. So all told i'll be pulling down about 3K per month which i think equates to about 120,000 thb per month. Do you think i'll have enough?
I'm sure you'll have enough for a piece of string; it just depends if the string is ten miles long and made with 24 carat golden strings.

Send me a PM if you like, but I'm already in a similar situation and won't ever have to worry about which of my yellow Bentleys is in the Garage. :o

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There is no answer to the question because everyone lives as he chooses or at least within the confines of what he can afford. As for myself I way overestimated what I would need. Being conservative to a fault makes me comfortable. There will never be anymore children in my life. I raised mine and am not interested in raising someone elses. I think you need to take your time about buying anything. I waited nearly a year before buying a condo but I was looking that whole year. Having my own condo eliminated the biggest variable I had, rent. Since many landlords (my old one) like to add their divvy onto the utilities they dropped considerably also. I had not planned on having a vehicle but since I was using less than half of what income I had available I decided I could afford to buy one. Social Security will be a big part of my income and I had planned to start collecting at age 62 but maybe I will wait longer. Now I live up country with my Thai wife and since the house belongs to her and is paid for I also have rent from my condo. Life is good. :D

In any case, never spend more here than you can afford to walk away from. I did try to retire at age 56 but violated the important rule. I couldn't afford to walk away from the two million baht I got cheated out of and ended up going back to work in the USA for three more years. Trust only yourself and look out for number one. YOU! :o

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No offence intended, but the 'investment discussion' side of this thread seems to have been hi-jacked by Americans.

So, for the Brits out there, a couple of points worth taking on board.

Once you are 'resident' in Thailand, and are spending less than 90 days in the Uk for each tax year, all investment income on offshore investments will be tax free. This is so, even though your pension will be taxed (because it was earned in the UK). So if you are in a 'money purchase' pension scheme, you should take the 25% tax free lump sum, and put it off shore where you will receive tax free income. This will help to reduce your tax bill considerably, and reduce your overall tax rate, which in turn will obviously make your monthly income requirement less than it would have been if you had left all your funds in the UK. There are plenty of highly respected, Uk based, solid financial institutions in which you can invest your money - 'safe' offshore funds, bank deposits, bonds, etc. and funds can all be held in sterling.

The second point is in connection with pension schemes themselves. If your 'pot' is greater than 100k sterling, then it worth considerating a 'draw down' arrangement as an alternative to an endowment policy. The rules for draw down arrangments have just been liberalised even further, and it is possible to have a bespoke investment portfolio, which is managed by your selected manager, and you just withdraw what you need to live on, and let the remainder grow.

I have always kept all my funds in sterling, and my offshore, tax free investment funds have been earning at a rate exceeding 10 % per annum by investing in a large spread of international funds, managed by a very knowledgable local expert, via a large UK institution. I will be doing something similar with my 'draw down' pension fund, and expect to make at least 8 % on my overall port folio, and quite possibly, much more.

Edited by Mobi D'Ark
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Guest endure

Hi Mobi

Can you give us any more info on the outfit that gets you 10% on your investments? Are their services available to anyone?

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Mobi

I am very curious too

Any chance of pm on this 10% investment

Interest rates on the offshore banks fixed rate accounts are pretty poor value right now 4.7% is all i can find.Onshore you can get 5.2%.You can factor in your personal allowance of 5K and maybe get paid gross if careful with your financial planning.

hwset

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Mobi

I am very curious too

Any chance of pm on this 10% investment

Interest rates on the offshore banks fixed rate accounts are pretty poor value right now 4.7% is all i can find.Onshore you can get 5.2%.You can factor in your personal allowance of 5K and maybe get paid gross if careful with your financial planning.

hwset

Pm on its way. Please be aware that these are offshore equity funds I'm talking about. There are a range of choices from low to high risk which will obviously affect the rate of return.

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Thaiquila, here goes one for the Aussies. First of all you wanted more info on a person retiring on 5 Milio Baht. Invested in Australia at 6% (yes it is possible) that they can live on that. It comes to an income of around 25,000 baht a Month as interest or dividends. It is also equal to a single pension from the Government should you be on that. I know one 72 y/o in Pattaya that lives on this amount. He doesn't drink much and when he does he drinks only in cheap bars. Acommodation is 4,000 b p/m, lady about 5,000 b p/m which leaves him 16K p/m to blow. A man who does not eat and drink much can live as he does pretty well on that.

To your question, you need about 15 M to 20 M Baht to retire. That is to get yourself an income of 60,000 baht p/m for life. In Australia fixed interest rates can be got for around 6%. You can also purchase shares that pay fully franked dividends (meaning tax paid) which also pay up to 6%.

Taking 20 M Baht into consideration will give you about $700,000 AUD. You would only need between 1 M Baht and 5 M Baht to buy a decent property. Lets assume you buy a big expensive house for 5 M Baht, that will leave you 15 M Baht. If you invest that at 6% in Australia it would give you approximately 75,000 Baht a Month income. Tax would be low as the shares income is tax paid and if you went one step further and declared yourself to the Australian Tax Office as a Non Resident then you would only have to pay a flat 10% tax on your bank interest income. The shares income would not be taxed that 10% as they are fully franked and your investments would keep pace with inflation as the shares you own go up and the income from them will go up over the life of your investment, hope that helps.

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Thaiquila, here goes one for the Aussies. First of all you wanted more info on a person retiring on 5 Milio Baht. Invested in Australia at 6% (yes it is possible) that they can live on that. It comes to an income of around 25,000 baht a Month as interest or dividends. It is also equal to a single pension from the Government should you be on that. I know one 72 y/o in Pattaya that lives on this amount. He doesn't drink much and when he does he drinks only in cheap bars. Acommodation is 4,000 b p/m, lady about 5,000 b p/m which leaves him 16K p/m to blow. A man who does not eat and drink much can live as he does pretty well on that.

To your question, you need about 15 M to 20 M Baht to retire. That is to get yourself an income of 60,000 baht p/m for life. In Australia fixed interest rates can be got for around 6%. You can also purchase shares that pay fully franked dividends (meaning tax paid) which also pay up to 6%.

Taking 20 M Baht into consideration will give you about $700,000 AUD. You would only need between 1 M Baht and 5 M Baht to buy a decent property. Lets assume you buy a big expensive house for 5 M Baht, that will leave you 15 M Baht. If you invest that at 6% in Australia it would give you approximately 75,000 Baht a Month income. Tax would be low as the shares income is tax paid and if you went one step further and declared yourself to the Australian Tax Office as a Non Resident then you would only have to pay a flat 10% tax on your bank interest income. The shares income would not be taxed that 10% as they are fully franked and your investments would keep pace with inflation as the shares you own go up and the income from them will go up over the life of your investment, hope that helps.

some points to make .

I have a mortgage with a Bank ( commercial ) and I am paying them 6.85 % , I do not think 6 % on deposit is possible !

Idem with shares, look more for 4-4.5% yield on your stocks, that is conservative , I am not talking about company as Telstra / multiplex .

Ion use to give a very very good dividends .

Idem with non resident the tax have no tax-free threshold for them ! and the rate is higher

Taxable as the 10 % mentioned !

‘ Non-residents are taxed at a higher rate and are not entitled to a tax-free threshold. Part-year residents may be entitled to a part-year tax-free threshold ‘

Source : http://www.ato.gov.au/default.asp?menu=40

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Thaiquila, here goes one for the Aussies. First of all you wanted more info on a person retiring on 5 Milio Baht. Invested in Australia at 6% (yes it is possible) that they can live on that. It comes to an income of around 25,000 baht a Month as interest or dividends. It is also equal to a single pension from the Government should you be on that. I know one 72 y/o in Pattaya that lives on this amount. He doesn't drink much and when he does he drinks only in cheap bars. Acommodation is 4,000 b p/m, lady about 5,000 b p/m which leaves him 16K p/m to blow. A man who does not eat and drink much can live as he does pretty well on that.

To your question, you need about 15 M to 20 M Baht to retire. That is to get yourself an income of 60,000 baht p/m for life. In Australia fixed interest rates can be got for around 6%. You can also purchase shares that pay fully franked dividends (meaning tax paid) which also pay up to 6%.

Taking 20 M Baht into consideration will give you about $700,000 AUD. You would only need between 1 M Baht and 5 M Baht to buy a decent property. Lets assume you buy a big expensive house for 5 M Baht, that will leave you 15 M Baht. If you invest that at 6% in Australia it would give you approximately 75,000 Baht a Month income. Tax would be low as the shares income is tax paid and if you went one step further and declared yourself to the Australian Tax Office as a Non Resident then you would only have to pay a flat 10% tax on your bank interest income. The shares income would not be taxed that 10% as they are fully franked and your investments would keep pace with inflation as the shares you own go up and the income from them will go up over the life of your investment, hope that helps.

You still seem to be ignoring the FX risk. If I can paste my reply to one of your messages on an earlier thread:

QUOTE(bmanly @ 2006-04-02 05:59:48)

My opinion is, why invest at 5.15% with BBL for a 10 Month term when you can invest in an at call account in a farang country like Australia or New Zealand and get 5.5%? I came back from NZ last week, the banks there were offering 7.4% on a 90 day term and 8% on a 2 year term which is even better. Of course for Thai Nationals they might not have a choice.

Hmm...if you'd bought THB 1m worth of NZD at the end of last year at 28.08, popped it in a 90 day depo at 7.40% and brought it back to THB at the end of last month (at 23.96), you'd have made a whopping...er...loss of THB 131,154! Similarly you'd have lost THB 65,000 doing the AUD trade at 5.50%. Those rates are the interbank rates as well; you'd never get near that in the retail FX market.

This is what so many people don't understand. Future FX fair-rates are simply a function of interest rate differentials. As soon as you transfer funds out of your "home" currency you're taking a punt on the FX; you might get lucky, but that's all it is.

If you really wanted to fully hedge yourself against adverse future FX movements, you'd basically have to either enter a forward FX trade, or buy an option. Guess what? The cost of those hedges will effectively bring you back to square one. Why? Because that's what interbank traders do day-in and day-out - whittling away at any fleeting arbitrage opportunity...

In short, if you are spending money in THB, you are better off saving in THB.

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some points to make .

I have a mortgage with a Bank ( commercial ) and I am paying them 6.85 % , I do not think 6 % on deposit is possible !

Idem with shares, look more for 4-4.5% yield on your stocks, that is conservative , I am not talking about company as Telstra / multiplex .

Ion use to give a very very good dividends .

Idem with non resident the tax have no tax-free threshold for them ! and the rate is higher

Taxable as the 10 % mentioned !

‘ Non-residents are taxed at a higher rate and are not entitled to a tax-free threshold. Part-year residents may be entitled to a part-year tax-free threshold ‘

Source : http://www.ato.gov.au/default.asp?menu=40

You are incorrect simcity. Easystreet Internet Account gives you 5.65% on your deposits, at call everyday, that is pretty close. Then there also Bonds that can pay up to 8%. Take a look at Australian Secured Investments. Considering Easystreet is a Credit Union and safe and Ausec is a prudent 1st. Morgage only lender it would be wise to put your cash in 80% Easystreet and 20% into Ausec. That is a very safe investment and would return about 6%.

Secondly there are still quite a few companies offering 6% or near it on the Australian Stock Exchange. TLS 8.4%, TAH 5.5%, WES 5.5%, IFM 5.3%, MAP 7%, IOF 7.3%, DRT 7.4%. The last 3 are property trusts and the dividends are not fully franked. It would not be hard to create a portfolio of mixed shares and property trusts to give you a solid 6% return. All of the above quotes are off the Comsec site as of this morning.

About the tax, you are correct that non residents do not get the Tax Free threshold, however you are wrong about the 10% tax on interest payments for non residents, that is what it is. Here is the link from the ATO: It is very handy to the guys who live in Thailand pernamently to become non residents. Lets Work it out, if you have lets say 100K income from interest per year, on the 10% non resident tax you pay 10K that's it. Now lets say you were classed as an Aussie resident, you would pay:

0 to $6,000 = 0

$6,001 to $21,600 = $2,652

$21,601 to $58,000 = $10,920

$58,001 to $70,000 = $5,040

$70,001 to $100,000 = $14,100

My source for tax rates ATO.

The total tax to be paid by an Australian Resident for $100,000 interest income would be $32,712. Taking that into consideration you would be far far better off declaring yourself to be a non resident wouldn't you agree?

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