Does a Thai need a Thai passport to leave Thailand?

[Madivad]

I know it sounds silly, but I just spoke to a friend of mine, his Thai wife who is now an Australian citizen and carries an Australian passport, was refused exit thru BKK because her Thai passport had expired. Refusal wasn't by the airline, it was passport control. When she last entered Thailand, she did so on her Thai passport, but in the meantime it had expired. We all know this is her problem for not keeping on top of this, but when it involves a family of five (all of which hold and carry Australian passports, and except for my friend, all hold Thai passports), and mum is refused exit, the kids start getting upset, everyone's bags are packed together, and so now they're all leaving the airport so they can chase up another passport for her so that she can leave.

I would have thought, if she is now an Australian citizen, carrying an Australian passport, can they refuse her exit? I realise there is a question as to "how did she come to be in Thailand" that could be raised, but she would only have to produce her Thai passport to validate her entry.

Could someone who is both Thai and Australian (I know that Thais are 'supposed' to renounce their Thai citizenship, but rarely do) living in Thailand, not get a new Australian passport issued from BKK and leave on it?

I'm not one to argue, I find the whole thing intriguing, although my friend is certainly not happy at the moment.

[chiang mai]

I think that if she entered the country on a Thai passport I would imagine she would have to depart using the same, the fact that she has a second passport would seem to be a non-issue.

[Madivad]

I think that if she entered the country on a Thai passport I would imagine she would have to depart using the same, the fact that she has a second passport would seem to be a non-issue.

I certainly accept this is the case for foreigners, outbound journey should have a matching inbound journey. But I would have thought that for a Thai it would be the other way around: an inbound journey should have a matching outbound journey, since (in theory) she would be starting and ending her trips in Thailand

[Nowhereman60]

She didn't enter the country on her American Passport so how is she going to leave on it. There is no stamp on arrival in her American passport. This is just common sense.

[whybother]

Did she actually ask to leave on her Aus passport?

[whybother]

She didn't enter the country on her American Passport so how is she going to leave on it. There is no stamp on arrival in her American passport. This is just common sense.

I didn't realise she had an American passport as well as her Thai and Australian passports.

[Briggsy]

I believe the immigration was correct in not allowing her to exit.

A lot of inconvenience for everybody stemming from a misconception on the dual passport holder's part.

[Nowhereman60]

My mistake should have read Australian passport. But same results.

[samran]

Immigration work on the same basis as double entry book keepers. Enter in that passport, leave on it.

Thai passports are quick and easy to turn around, so she'll be fine in a few days.

[Madivad]

She was trying to leave on her Thai passport, she didn't realise it expired. Everyone else was fine. When they said "No" to her, she then asked about her Australian passport but was met with a negative reply. She's been over there for a couple of months, if she had of realised she would have got a new one. It was merely (a bad) oversight.

Anyway, they're staying for another week, she'll get it done in that time.

I would have thought though, she made a legal return to Thailand on her Thai passport. All outbound trips have a return. If that passport expires, and she has another legal passport, why can't she use it? It's a brand new passport, never used (doesn't even have an exit from Australia on it—it is not a matter of routine that it'll get stamped). Over the many years, I have read many threads here where Thai's have been made to use their foreign passport (on entry—yeah, I know that's different).

I was just curious if anyone else had similar experiences to share.

[Madivad]

Immigration work on the same basis as double entry book keepers. Enter in that passport, leave on it.

Thai passports are quick and easy to turn around, so she'll be fine in a few days.

If that's the cae, it HAS been double entried. Her first entry is an exit. Her subsequent arrival acquits the first. Her arrival on this occasion acquits her last exit.

But yeah, she'll be out in a couple of days.

[Briggsy]

Immigration work on the same basis as double entry book keepers. Enter in that passport, leave on it.

Thai passports are quick and easy to turn around, so she'll be fine in a few days.

If that's the cae, it HAS been double entried. Her first entry is an exit. Her subsequent arrival acquits the first. Her arrival on this occasion acquits her last exit.

But yeah, she'll be out in a couple of days.

You are half correct. The first "book entry" of a foreign passport must be entry not exit. The exception is a foreign child born here.

Therefore the only way she could pass immigration under current practices was to use a valid Thai passport.

[culicine]

If she's Thai and has an OZ passport, she leave Thailand on the Thai passport (so it needs to be valid). Then she enters OZ on the OZ passport. That's what we do with our son. Questions would be raised if she tried to leave on the OZ passport, like where is the visa? But yes, it doesn't take long to get a new Thai passport.

[Madivad]

Immigration work on the same basis as double entry book keepers. Enter in that passport, leave on it.

Thai passports are quick and easy to turn around, so she'll be fine in a few days.

If that's the cae, it HAS been double entried. Her first entry is an exit. Her subsequent arrival acquits the first. Her arrival on this occasion acquits her last exit.

But yeah, she'll be out in a couple of days.

You are half correct. The first "book entry" of a foreign passport must be entry not exit. The exception is a foreign child born here.

Therefore the only way she could pass immigration under current practices was to use a valid Thai passport.

And that's where it all falls down... I see how the exit on an Aus passport is an issue if there's no record of it arriving... (but what if it arrived whilst she was 'in-country'?)

Thanks all, just wanted some others views on it. As I said, it's not a problem, she'll get a new visa. If she had of been smart about it, she would have got it a few weeks ago. Hubby now has to explain it to work... lol

[Tomtomtom69]

This is a very simple scenario. I hold three passports, one of which is Australian, none of which is Thai though, but same difference. There is nothing complicated about this case - one must leave on a valid passport, the same one which was used to enter the country in question. While you can enter a second country on a different passport than the one used to enter and exit the country you are about to depart, you obviously can't produce a Thai passport to enter Thailand, then an Australian one to exit Thailand - entries and exits must always use the same document otherwise problems will arise.

In the case of a Thai, who is allowed to hold dual citizenship, there should not be any issues in holding an Aussie passport for travel back to Australia, provided the Thai passport is valid on exiting Thailand. Thai immigration now has automated booths upon exiting, and I would recommend a Thai always uses automated booths rather than the manned ones (they are much quicker anyway) but obviously the passport must still be valid, usually for 6 months or more.

Tell your friend to get a new passport and try again.

[Madivad]

This is a very simple scenario. I hold three passports, one of which is Australian, none of which is Thai though, but same difference. There is nothing complicated about this case - one must leave on a valid passport, the same one which was used to enter the country in question.

I'm not arguing with your logic here. But does that logic hold up if you are FROM that country?

If I am Australian and I enter Australia on an Australian passport, do I subsequently have to LEAVE Australia on an Australian passport?

Well, Australian immigration law says yes. An Australian citizen must enter and leave Australia on an Australian passport.

But what if in the time that I am at home I my get citizenship for another country? I renounce my Australian citizenship, do I HAVE to leave Australia on an Australian passport? It would no longer be valid. I'm no longer an Aussie!

Thailand is different (to Australia), there is no law saying a Thai citizen has to enter the country on a Thai passport (in fact, it is evident in these forums that many Thai's have come into the country on a foreign passport—I love reading about Thai's getting charged 'overstay' in Thailand, oxymoron?).

Of course I'm talking hypotheticals here, but the point is, what would happen if you were Thai, in Thailand, and became a citizen of somewhere else (and had a passport), is it ONLY possible to leave the country on a Thai passport?

(this has become a riddle on too manly levels, that wasn't m intention).

Thanks all, thanks for putting up with this thread. close, lock, delete, whatever.... Cheers!!

[Madivad]

This is a very simple scenario. I hold three passports, one of which is Australian, none of which is Thai though, but same difference. There is nothing complicated about this case - one must leave on a valid passport, the same one which was used to enter the country in question. While you can enter a second country on a different passport than the one used to enter and exit the country you are about to depart, you obviously can't produce a Thai passport to enter Thailand, then an Australian one to exit Thailand - entries and exits must always use the same document otherwise problems will arise.

In the case of a Thai, who is allowed to hold dual citizenship, there should not be any issues in holding an Aussie passport for travel back to Australia, provided the Thai passport is valid on exiting Thailand. Thai immigration now has automated booths upon exiting, and I would recommend a Thai always uses automated booths rather than the manned ones (they are much quicker anyway) but obviously the passport must still be valid, usually for 6 months or more.

Tell your friend to get a new passport and try again.

I should have added, well done for 1000 posts! Where are you from?

[Torrens54]

Suggest you have a word with the Hon. Australian Consul in Chiang Mai, Mike Walther. I'm sure he'll put you on the right track.

[highlander403]

having been in the same situation earlier this year only with uk & thai passports the only thing that surprises me is that she got past check in,

emirates spotted it right away and would not let missus check in..

scotty

[dighambara]

She didn't enter the country on her American Passport so how is she going to leave on it. There is no stamp on arrival in her American passport. This is just common sense.

It was AUS Passport & I have exited Thailand when they did not check - stamped for exit, without looking for an entry stamp. Left once to Laos, where Thai Immigration did not check for a Lao visa - I thought I could get one at the border (not then..!! - times change)...LOL

I waited on the Lao pier - had lunch - then returned and was stamped back into Thailand.

[samran]

To the OP. To answer your question simply. You are still a Thai citizen unless it has been published in the Royal Gazette that you no longer are. So your scenario, why hypothetical, is likely to remain such.

True there is a level of absurdity to the fact Thai's entering Thailand on foreign passports are subject to immigration rules, which is why I guess places like Australia and the US pretty much make you enter on their passports if you are a national there to avoid the perversion of placing conditions of stay on people who shouldn't be subject to them.

[krisb]

I still don't understand, a passport is just a form of I.d. She has provided a valid form by using her Australian passport. So what her entry stamp was in another pp. That's crazy not letting her go. Immigration should have shown some heart in the matter.

Definitely 1 to remember.

[7by7]

Thailand is different (to Australia), there is no law saying a Thai citizen has to enter the country on a Thai passport (in fact, it is evident in these forums that many Thai's have come into the country on a foreign passport—I love reading about Thai's getting charged 'overstay' in Thailand, oxymoron?).

As far as I'm aware you are correct: there is no law saying that a Thai has to enter Thailand on their Thai passport.

But there is a law saying that everyone must leave Thailand on the passport they used to enter it (or renewal of same if it expired whilst there).

I can see no reason why a Thai with dual nationality would use their other passport to enter Thailand, but if they did then Thai law treats them as non Thai; certainly for immigration purposes. I am fairly sure that one can use an expired Thai passport to enter Thailand, but not leave it.

If someone is leaving Thailand on a foreign passport which has not been used to enter Thailand they have to show why. As far as I am aware the only acceptable reasons are that they renewed their passport whilst in Thailand and have the old one with the appropriate stamps and visas (though this may not be necessary in these days of computer records) or they were born in Thailand and this is their first exit.

Edited August 26, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

The other option is for a Thai to leave the Kingdom for a nearby country such as Laos on an ID card then re enter on a foreign passport.

Unlike passports ID cards are not stamped.

There appears to be lax control on Thai's coming and going at border checkpoints such as Nong Kai where busloads appear to be waved through each day to work.

[samran]

It might 'appear' that way, but you'd generally be wrong. Land borders follow stamp trails and want them in the same passport. Anyway, why you'd want to so such a convoluted thing is beyond me, given a Thai passport can be easily turned around in 3 days.

[nonthaburial]

She didn't enter the country on her American Passport so how is she going to leave on it. There is no stamp on arrival in her American passport. This is just common sense.

If you look at a world map, you will find Australia is in fact a long way from America. Please read, inwardly digest before responding

[7by7]

nonthaburial, if you read the topic you will see

My mistake should have read Australian passport.

I suggest that you heed your own advice

Please read, inwardly digest before responding

[Arkady]

If the passport had expired before she entered Thailand, they would have let her in because they have to let in all Thais who have evidence that they are Thai, e.g. an expired Thai passport. But it makes perfect sense not that they can't permit a Thai to exit using an invalid passport. I don't think many countries would allow this. Logically the traveller would not be able to get into their destination country since it is assumed that Thais don't have alternative nationalities.

[Briggsy]

Everything you say is logical and correct as ever, Arkady. However she did try to leave with a valid passport, her Australian one, rather than trying to leave with an expired Thai one.

[chiang mai]

Isn't a key to all of this in the Arrivals/Landing card? A landing card begins when someone enters the country and expires when someone leaves the same, therefore nobody can be allowed to exit Thailand on anything other than a Thai passport unless they have proof of their arrival? It seems pretty fundamental to me.