Thailand education: Low ranking for quality despite high spending

[oops]

Nothing will change until they remove the old Thai teachers who still live in a communist error mentality. With their regimental military

behavior. They spend hours on the boy scout drills which I know and remember America speaking out against it because it is not voluntary it's just a cover for military training.

Teachers will come in the classrooms and interrupt the foreign teachers and if the foreign teachers are making any progress with the students, the Thai teachers will tell them they can't do it.

1.If the school does provide internet they break all the computers and pile them up at the back of the class.

2.If the school has internet they turn it on for an hour in the morning at the same time when your supposed to go out to the morning assembly. When you come back, the internet is either two slow or you just can't log on.

3.They don't offer teachers a computer. They may put 15 teachers in one office and give them two computers and printers that most often don't work correctly or the push the computers into an area that makes it impossible to use.

4. I realize this is not about foreign teachers, but some foreign teachers are teaching more than just English. For instance, the Science teacher; who they never really give a budget for equipment and supplies to work from, only a few small things then ask the teacher to buy the rest with their low salary, " don't half too tell what happens there".

.5. Most of that money that the schools are getting most likely are for ceremonies, " you know the ones" every week or so they bring out fancy couches so the detector can sit in front of everyone looking like royalty. A director is supposed to be working no putting himself and a few selected staff members up on display.

6. High ranking Thai teachers will bust into classes and disrupt them intentionally. They will play loud VERY LOUD MUSIC during class ours so that the teachers can't be heard " and I do mean Loud"

7. They will have sports in the middle of the day so all the students disappear from class, instead of having on a Friday afternoon so they only miss one or two classes which isn't a problem because by friday afternoon the students aren't really with you.

8. It seems as if they are always being tested but not until after they have been out of class for several weeks, then they are tested on stuff the hadn't learned..( This varies in some schools )

9. Some schools even allow the drivers to use the kids as target practice. Yeah ! this is true, at one school I watched in horror as a small single cab truck sitting low tot he ground try to run over two little Thai girls, it was the worst thing I had ever watched as this truck plowed through the parking are " soccer Field " where these two girls were walking, the truck came up from behind them, didn't slow down. The two girls literally had to run and jump out of the way. But I see this at many schools that I have to go to for our charity group. It just shows that even the parents don't care.

10. They beat the ADHD children hoping they will learn. While at the same time in Sattahip they dress them up as ladyboys with coconut shell bra's and grass dresses so the can walk around the school all day and beat pans. Still to the day I have not been able to figure that one out. Even worse the teacher posted pictures of these young boys online. Later only to remover because they were terrible pictures. They should be playing soccer but they are teaching them to be entertainers for the wealthy.

11. Sattahip the language director out there wanted the M -6 children to just learn nursery rhymes all day long, not for their English classes, but for their Thai classes as well. These students were getting ready for a university.

12. Taking test if they fail give them the answers. But first, give them the answers so their is no reason for them to fail?

13. At a high school instead of treating them as young adults they are walking around hitting students with a stick. Then walking around with blow horns, screaming at the kids everyday. The children will listen to an hour speech every morning about nothing, it's crazy. This type of mentality only exacerbates the extremely high deaf syndrome issue. They come to classes and they are tone deaf to anyone speaking with.

Bottom line they don't teach they heard them like we do with cows.

Only a teacher would be able to report what you have reported. You are not a teacher. I know the mayor of Sattahip and the education administration and have known them for a long time. You are not telling the truth. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

Where does it say I am a teacher? How can you be an authority on what other people know? You know the Mayor of Sattahip WOW!. YOUR IMPORTANT

[Noistar]

Every farang who has experienced Thai teaching methods first hand realizes that, no matter how much money they spend, as long as students are lectured to and not taught how to think and reason for themselves, the education will not happen. Unfortunately, this suits the politicians just fine as a thinking population might question their wisdom in governance.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." William Arthur Ward. Thailand is in great need of teachers who inspire their students to be inquisitive and to study and become lifelong learners.

That's just silly. The basics are rote memory. Thai kids can't read Thai and can't write Thai and don't have basic arithmetic skills. You are talking college. I'm talking grade school. They don't need any more brain stress. Start with the basics. Teach the Thai language and basic arithmetic skills and then send them out to make a living.

Sure rote learning forms the basis of much of the kids fundamental skills - but in Thai schools there is waay to much of it. I've seen teacher just writing masses of Thai on the board, kids copying it, and asked to regurgitate it on a test. I'm not talking just about grade school, but up to grade 12 as well. Kids who do well in Thai/social are those who can remember lots of facts and can reproduce them on a test. Of course kids also need to know multiplication tables too, but their understanding can be extended much beyond this. There is too much focus on arithmetic in schools (calculators are banned in Thai schools), and little focus on conceptual understanding. I gave some of my so called top m6 students an SAT maths question - non could solve this in 5 minutes, but it just involved grade 9 math concepts. Yet these are the kids who love to go to tutorial schools, saying out school work is too 'easy'. They just don't have an understanding of basic concepts.

Having witnessed my step-daughter's mid-term exam result 60%, the information she has pertaining to the area the exam was focused on, I posed her a few simple questions based on her notes, Even with her mothers help, she took a while to convince me she understood the questions. No end of gentle prodding, suggestions made any difference. she stared at her mother and admitted she didn't know the answers.

the pet dog nearly wet itself "please, please i know the answer"

I can only assume that exam questions match the 'rote'.If she's as thick as a brick and gets 60%, why do I need to help her? The system will say she's a success, proficiency be damned.

[oops]

Nothing will change until they remove the old Thai teachers who still live in a communist error mentality. With their regimental military

behavior. They spend hours on the boy scout drills which I know and remember America speaking out against it because it is not voluntary it's just a cover for military training.

Teachers will come in the classrooms and interrupt the foreign teachers and if the foreign teachers are making any progress with the students, the Thai teachers will tell them they can't do it.

1.If the school does provide internet they break all the computers and pile them up at the back of the class.

2.If the school has internet they turn it on for an hour in the morning at the same time when your supposed to go out to the morning assembly. When you come back, the internet is either two slow or you just can't log on.

3.They don't offer teachers a computer. They may put 15 teachers in one office and give them two computers and printers that most often don't work correctly or the push the computers into an area that makes it impossible to use.

4. I realize this is not about foreign teachers, but some foreign teachers are teaching more than just English. For instance, the Science teacher; who they never really give a budget for equipment and supplies to work from, only a few small things then ask the teacher to buy the rest with their low salary, " don't half too tell what happens there".

.5. Most of that money that the schools are getting most likely are for ceremonies, " you know the ones" every week or so they bring out fancy couches so the detector can sit in front of everyone looking like royalty. A director is supposed to be working no putting himself and a few selected staff members up on display.

6. High ranking Thai teachers will bust into classes and disrupt them intentionally. They will play loud VERY LOUD MUSIC during class ours so that the teachers can't be heard " and I do mean Loud"

7. They will have sports in the middle of the day so all the students disappear from class, instead of having on a Friday afternoon so they only miss one or two classes which isn't a problem because by friday afternoon the students aren't really with you.

8. It seems as if they are always being tested but not until after they have been out of class for several weeks, then they are tested on stuff the hadn't learned..( This varies in some schools )

9. Some schools even allow the drivers to use the kids as target practice. Yeah ! this is true, at one school I watched in horror as a small single cab truck sitting low tot he ground try to run over two little Thai girls, it was the worst thing I had ever watched as this truck plowed through the parking are " soccer Field " where these two girls were walking, the truck came up from behind them, didn't slow down. The two girls literally had to run and jump out of the way. But I see this at many schools that I have to go to for our charity group. It just shows that even the parents don't care.

10. They beat the ADHD children hoping they will learn. While at the same time in Sattahip they dress them up as ladyboys with coconut shell bra's and grass dresses so the can walk around the school all day and beat pans. Still to the day I have not been able to figure that one out. Even worse the teacher posted pictures of these young boys online. Later only to remover because they were terrible pictures. They should be playing soccer but they are teaching them to be entertainers for the wealthy.

11. Sattahip the language director out there wanted the M -6 children to just learn nursery rhymes all day long, not for their English classes, but for their Thai classes as well. These students were getting ready for a university.

12. Taking test if they fail give them the answers. But first, give them the answers so their is no reason for them to fail?

13. At a high school instead of treating them as young adults they are walking around hitting students with a stick. Then walking around with blow horns, screaming at the kids everyday. The children will listen to an hour speech every morning about nothing, it's crazy. This type of mentality only exacerbates the extremely high deaf syndrome issue. They come to classes and they are tone deaf to anyone speaking with.

Bottom line they don't teach they heard them like we do with cows.

Only a teacher would be able to report what you have reported. You are not a teacher. I know the mayor of Sattahip and the education administration and have known them for a long time. You are not telling the truth. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

Ok, I am not a teacher, what does that have to do with anything?. Maybe I am a parent that see's whats going on, aside from anything else.

[Noistar]

What does WEF base it's rankings on?

From the proliferation of 'passes' in Thai education, how does an external organization determine comparisons?

My current fear is that there is no point trying to make things better, because superficially, within Thailand, nothing is broken. Everybody will achieve success on the basis of little ability.

As the thread on University uniforms shows, the Principal confirms that Thai emphasis is on conformity. One can only 'question the sincerity' of a government statement which includes "equipping students with analysis, language and ICT (information and communications technology) skills".

For a start, ICT IMO is mere window dressing. The key is initiative which is alien to an educational system which demands conformity.

I fail to observe any benefit to the country of a system which indoctrinates students to 'prepare them for the discipline required in professional life'.

Where does "thinking out of the box" and having a "go, go, go" mentality come from when Thais are taught to 'do' and not 'think'? Saying 'Yes', without thinking 'why'.

The current student population are already being squeezed out of the 'toothpaste tube' of education. I have no reason to believe that things will change for those children waiting to enter the system.

Discipline, as required by government (I deliberately don't say THE government) is more akin to a dictatorship - and we haven't quite arrived there yet.

Excuse my thoughts, but I honestly do despair for the future of Thailand.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Noistar

[Noistar]

Ok, I am not a teacher, what does that have to do with anything?. Maybe I am a parent that see's whats going on, aside from anything else.

Keep your head down mate, I'm still recovering from the bruises!

If you are a parent, I hope you are not suffering the same frustrations at school which I am.

[oops]

Response to Katanga. Schools change over time what was right 20 years ago may not be right now and of course it depends on the children. What is right for one child may not be right for all children.

I favor schools that have an admissions test to include psychological as well as academic tests and a school which prepares children for college.

I think every child should have a BA degree so they can function as a human being. After that up to them.

If I had a child who wanted to be a doctor I might suggest they stay in Thailand to study. I think Thai doctors are better than doctors in the West. They seem better adjusted.

Most Thai doctors who study in the West come back to Thailand to practice or teach; that has to tell you something because they don't make near as much money.

My brother in law is a Thai doctor here in Thailand and I know he has studied extensively because he wants to be a surgeon, and yet his English is extremely poor to non-existent and not just him but his Thai doctor friends. Including his wife who is a doctor and from an influential family. Far be-it for me to criticize him for his successes, but your making another untrue statement by saying people fare better by doctors here and comparing doctors in the west as substandard compared to Thai doctors. You obviously know this isn't true which is why Thai's leave to educate themselves in other countries. I don't see or hear about Westerners busting down the doors to be educated here, not even for nursing positions.

I can tell you first hand about one of many trips to the doctors here where I have been left to diagnose myself then tell the doctors what to look for. For example my trip to a skin doctor. I went sat down, she asked what was wrong?, ( I replied ) I have many little bumps around both ankles. She looked down and " Where I don't see anything" , mind you the room was not properly lighted. I said " trying to be kind" it's probably a bit difficult to see them from so far away because even I used a light. She they pulls out a tiny flash light and tells me, AHHA Ok. Those are freckles, " having lived all my life with freckles and being very much aware that I have them, I paused to ask her where she went to school. A skin doctor without a bright light and magnifying glass is like a car without tires or even better a scenic view from your hotel room but with no windows to see through. Bottom line is I left the hospital without knowing anymore than I did when I went except, not to go back. I have had many experiences like this, not just one in Thailand. In the west they are held accountable and sued for malpractice and while I don't agree with that practice, " it keeps the doctors on their toes. Your analogy is totally without merit, and un-sponsored by facts.

[ggold]

Every farang who has experienced Thai teaching methods first hand realizes that, no matter how much money they spend, as long as students are lectured to and not taught how to think and reason for themselves, the education will not happen. Unfortunately, this suits the politicians just fine as a thinking population might question their wisdom in governance.

"The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." William Arthur Ward. Thailand is in great need of teachers who inspire their students to be inquisitive and to study and become lifelong learners.

That's just silly. The basics are rote memory. Thai kids can't read Thai and can't write Thai and don't have basic arithmetic skills. You are talking college. I'm talking grade school. They don't need any more brain stress. Start with the basics.

What is just silly? My whole post? Is teaching young people how to reason and learn for themselves silly? If you wait until college to teach this, you've waited too long and left the vast majority behind. Already 50% who start school do not finish the 12th grade.

"Teach the Thai language and basic arithmetic skills and then send them out to make a living." In twelve years this is all you expect the system to teach? What kind of job will they qualify for with "Thai language and basic arithmetic skills"? It seems to me you just want the school system to train laborers and not thinkers.

For the standard of living for ALL Thais to go up, companies requiring more than just 'labor' will need to do business here. That will not happen until the education level improves.

Then the question is, how long before the manufacturing base goes to other countries because the eduction system can't educate to the level required?

[Noistar]

What is just silly? My whole post? Is teaching young people how to reason and learn for themselves silly? If you wait until college to teach this, you've waited too long and left the vast majority behind. Already 50% who start school do not finish the 12th grade.

"Teach the Thai language and basic arithmetic skills and then send them out to make a living." In twelve years this is all you expect the system to teach? What kind of job will they qualify for with "Thai language and basic arithmetic skills"? It seems to me you just want the school system to train laborers and not thinkers.

For the standard of living for ALL Thais to go up, companies requiring more than just 'labor' will need to do business here. That will not happen until the education level improves.

Then the question is, how long before the manufacturing base goes to other countries because the eduction system can't educate to the level required?

I suppose it must come down to how you define "the education system can't educate to the level required".

The country seems to be able to survive based on the current system, which seems a paradox when one considers the automatons which trip off the conveyor belt which stands for the Thai education system.

It seems to be a question of how is Thailand surviving currently, rather than how long it is before it falls off the edge.

I merely pose this opinion as I'm curious.

[Noistar]

And another example of how the lessons/exams are tailored to match.

M4 English - A gleaming mid-term/nearly end of term (!) exam success.

10 questions in 2 hours.

Question 1 - name a rock! Question is in English, answer is in English, but doesn't seem a particularly probing English question.

Question 2 - give an example of what rocks can be used for.

On the basis of this I would have been overjoyed to see just one "complete this sentence" question!

The heading on this gleaming exam paper is 'English', but as you can only ask for lists, it is suddenly based on basic geology.

The non-Thai English teacher was asked to supply me with her lesson plans for the remainder of the term. I am grateful that such a document existed and that the school were happy for me to review and 'xerox'(!) anything I wanted.

We have the 'Plant Kingdom' coming up, 'Preposition of place', Famous People and Clouds.

Any 'English' is obviously on the fly.

Wonder what the subject of the end-of-term exam will be?

I don't blame the teacher. I would hope she is equally frustrated at being forced to teach for the exam paper, rather than teach her subject for the benefit of her students.

When the school said they will ensure that students attain the necessary exam results to enter University, I was stupid enough to assume that an English pass actually indicated an English ability. I don't know if a similar situation applies to the remaining subjects which are taught in Thai.

A visit to the Head of English and the Director is arranged to explain what the hell they're playing at.

Nothing will change, but at least my wife and I will have the satisfaction of seeing them defending the indefensible. So, 4 hours of English lessons a week = damned if I know, apart from a piece of paper.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Noistar

[tomyummer]

I actually thought this article was about private schools in Thailand. It's quite applicable, high spending (tuition) and low output (crap education). For the amount you pay for education in Thailand, you don't get squat. And by allowing 'under the table' entrance fees the schools are lowering their standards for the real deserving students that get in on their own test scores and merits.

There should be a required list from every school about which universities their new graduates will attend in the next fall. That's a true judge of the school.

About fixing the public schools? Forget about it. The change needs to come from the top down and it's not going to move anywhere.

[Noistar]

I actually thought this article was about private schools in Thailand. It's quite applicable, high spending (tuition) and low output (crap education). For the amount you pay for education in Thailand, you don't get squat. And by allowing 'under the table' entrance fees the schools are lowering their standards for the real deserving students that get in on their own test scores and merits.

There should be a required list from every school about which universities their new graduates will attend in the next fall. That's a true judge of the school.

About fixing the public schools? Forget about it. The change needs to come from the top down and it's not going to move anywhere.

That's always the problem. If everyone passes, how do you sort the wheat from the chaff?

It's almost down to Universities/employers to forget what the education system says and make an honest (I know, I know, TIT) assessment.

As you say, a top down solution is needed, but who at the top is going to confess to their own shortcomings to allow things to improve?

A principled person would be a beacon anywhere else.

[MrJohnson]

I actually thought this article was about private schools in Thailand. It's quite applicable, high spending (tuition) and low output (crap education). For the amount you pay for education in Thailand, you don't get squat. And by allowing 'under the table' entrance fees the schools are lowering their standards for the real deserving students that get in on their own test scores and merits.

There should be a required list from every school about which universities their new graduates will attend in the next fall. That's a true judge of the school.

About fixing the public schools? Forget about it. The change needs to come from the top down and it's not going to move anywhere.

That's always the problem. If everyone passes, how do you sort the wheat from the chaff?

It's almost down to Universities/employers to forget what the education system says and make an honest (I know, I know, TIT) assessment.

As you say, a top down solution is needed, but who at the top is going to confess to their own shortcomings to allow things to improve?

A principled person would be a beacon anywhere else.

The $64 question , my friend. This is not a meritocracy and anyone principled enough to stick their head above the parapet may find themselves on the receiving end of something nasty.