Better Sex Please: We're Thai

[Dustoff]

Just try not to resort to quoting people out of context, and harassing people whose views you don't like. That is anti-intellectual, or in plain terms, stupid.

There are many different viewpoints and experiences on this forum, so it looks like you're going to have to share.

Thank you Kat for being kind enough to share your intellectual

opinions in plain terms and for not quoting me out of context.

Your point noted.

*edit - the edit was grammatical Dustoff, in case you wanted to use it against me.

Whoa girl.. I don't even KNOW you except by your posts and it would simply never enter my mind to "use" anything against someone unless they posed a threat to my or my family's safety.

You have your opinions and I have mine; what's the big deal?

Here's one for ya; I have always been attracted to women who give good anger.. (insert nudge-nudge, wink-wink or <deleted> (Brit term?) emoticon, what-e-ver)..

Sincerely,

Stupid, anti-intellectual, harassing tantrum-thrower (no apology intended since you know better).

[rainman]

no wonder thai ladies are complaining about bad sex if you guys spend hours and hours debating vegetables, daddies & daughters, etc. etc. this thread is a real sex killer!

[zzap]

Which brings up again social and sexual roles. This would never happen to me in the west, but I can't imagine a better free flowing of love than some ways Sarah and I took care of each other. In the morning, she would usually wake first. Once I was up and ready, she would bring me food. How simple is that? She would use my money, walk down the street a few yards, purchase prepared food, put it on a plate, come upstairs and offer it to me. She didn't just lay it down and walk out, no, we performed our morning ritual. I accepted her devoted offering, we ate together in silence, and then I thanked her and thanked her many times for taking such good care of her Daddy. Every day, for a year. Then we'd have sex. Then we were ready for the day. And when she prepared food she offered as much glow to the room as our 40 watt lightbulbs in our little love hovel. She chopped with devotion - each chop was devotion. She never felt put upon for her devotions.

And I paid for everything. I earned our money. And I breathed many lives into her that she had never known. She was safe and loved and taken care of.

All I can say is WOW!!! I'm not sure but there may be some issues... "Daddy" and "I breathed many lives into her". I'll keep my opinions to myself, but he might want to read what he wrote as an interested bystander instead of as a proud author. WOW!!!

There is not enough information in your post about what, exactly you find distasteful. Sarah is 22. She is not 13. She happens to look 13, and I find her sexually attractive, as does every man I've ever met who met her. She won the sexiest girl contest in Cebu City, dancing on the stage. She is hot - don't blame me for that. Youth is beauty - it just is. She is a hot sexy girl who looks younger than she actually is. She get's people hitting on her constantly wherever she goes. So sue me for being a normal man.

And as for the Daddy thing, please see the difference between the archetype of embodied paternal care and actually having sex with your offspring. Sarah is not actually my daughter. There is no incest going on. She is 22 years old - an adult. It is totally normal for a man to want to care for his woman, and a lot of those feelings are mixed with paternal instincts of nurturing.

There is no need to get all disgusted as if actual incest was going on. Two people just chose to care for each other, and she called me Daddy and I called her Daughter.

And as for the little poetic comment about breating life into her, well, in her own words I did fill her with love and life.

Sorry for coming in quite late here, I was on 'holiday'. My 2 Bt worth:

Disengaging from any short-term exploitative relayionships would be a step in the right direction for 'Sarah'.

"Jamman" would benefit from long-term, in depth psychotherapy to look at himself and the way he relates to others.

As a favour to Jamman, here a link to "pseudointellectual", I believe I explained it before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-intellectual

But if you can't grasp what intellectual means, you won't understand pseudo-intellectual, either.

That's how the thing perpetuates itself.

[a2396]

When I said people are people the world over I was talking in a biological sence really. That is, once we get past our indoctorined 'obsticles' we are just men and women who have the right biological bits and pieces and hormones to determine our enjoyment levels. Serious sexual problems that are insummountable will still be an issue, but are also universal.

I wouldn't say that his Mrs is having an affair because she doesn't 'seem' to like sex (and is too embarrassed perhaps to discuss it). Of course I don't know her, but I would hazzard one of three guesses:

1- She is simply inexperienced (even after 18 months with you) and is embarrassed to seem to interested in sex. 'Would you think she was a hussy if she was too eager?' - maybe the question running through her mind.

2- As a tangent to '1': Maybe she thinks nice girls are not interested in sex, so to be a good girl for you, she resists the urge and just plays dead. When you bring it up, she losses face as you are saying her intentional cadaver act (put on especially for you) isn't good enough. To her, she can't win. You are also talking of the taboo and she's too good a girl to discuss this openly with a MAN!

3- Something has happened to her previously that makes sex a negative experience (rape, child abuse, her boyfriend telling her breasts are too small, whatever). So, she tries for your sake to bear it, and lays back and tries to think of nice things like SomTam with her mates etc. Then you finish your business and moan about her, because she is just not good enough.

There are probably a thousand more possible reasons too. Has she told you she hates you? Maybe she's ding her most to please you. Maybe you will destroy her with your final decision 'when something better comes along'.

Take things slowly - I mean each time, not 'its been two weeks now, so get your laughing gear round this'. Let her feel comfortable with experimenting (for her - maybe the norm for you). It will take time, especially if trust is an issue (see possibilitiy 3 above), but you may end up with the best of all worlds. Worth it? Only you know for sure.

Chok Dee

Thanks for the comments regarding my situation. I don't think she is having an affair with anyone. I don't know when she would have the time or opportunity. She did not grow up with a happy family life and suffers from the general conservative and stuffy attitudes about sex, which seems to be common here with the over 30 age group. She has had previous experience before me, but of what quality I do not know. She will not discuss any details, as is the case with most Thai woman. I think she would say she is doing her best to please me, but she has no concept of spontaneaity. Sex is done my an pre-arranged time schedule - no daytime, etc, etc. She has the mindset of an old maid auntie, but she is physically a beautiful woman. More significant is that there is little real interest in dialoge with me. She has almost no interest in learning English and teaches me no Thai. Therefore, any communication of a detailed nature is impossible. The marriage was a hurried affair that was based mostly on money, for both her and her family. While she does have liking and affection for me to a degree, it is not what it should be to hold a marriage together. I think this is not an easy thing to find, but it is important to me after being in two previous so, so marriages.

[Smithson]

When I said people are people the world over I was talking in a biological sence really. That is, once we get past our indoctorined 'obsticles' we are just men and women who have the right biological bits and pieces and hormones to determine our enjoyment levels. Serious sexual problems that are insummountable will still be an issue, but are also universal.

I wouldn't say that his Mrs is having an affair because she doesn't 'seem' to like sex (and is too embarrassed perhaps to discuss it). Of course I don't know her, but I would hazzard one of three guesses:

1- She is simply inexperienced (even after 18 months with you) and is embarrassed to seem to interested in sex. 'Would you think she was a hussy if she was too eager?' - maybe the question running through her mind.

2- As a tangent to '1': Maybe she thinks nice girls are not interested in sex, so to be a good girl for you, she resists the urge and just plays dead. When you bring it up, she losses face as you are saying her intentional cadaver act (put on especially for you) isn't good enough. To her, she can't win. You are also talking of the taboo and she's too good a girl to discuss this openly with a MAN!

3- Something has happened to her previously that makes sex a negative experience (rape, child abuse, her boyfriend telling her breasts are too small, whatever). So, she tries for your sake to bear it, and lays back and tries to think of nice things like SomTam with her mates etc. Then you finish your business and moan about her, because she is just not good enough.

There are probably a thousand more possible reasons too. Has she told you she hates you? Maybe she's ding her most to please you. Maybe you will destroy her with your final decision 'when something better comes along'.

Take things slowly - I mean each time, not 'its been two weeks now, so get your laughing gear round this'. Let her feel comfortable with experimenting (for her - maybe the norm for you). It will take time, especially if trust is an issue (see possibilitiy 3 above), but you may end up with the best of all worlds. Worth it? Only you know for sure.

Chok Dee

Thanks for the comments regarding my situation. I don't think she is having an affair with anyone. I don't know when she would have the time or opportunity. She did not grow up with a happy family life and suffers from the general conservative and stuffy attitudes about sex, which seems to be common here with the over 30 age group. She has had previous experience before me, but of what quality I do not know. She will not discuss any details, as is the case with most Thai woman. I think she would say she is doing her best to please me, but she has no concept of spontaneaity. Sex is done my an pre-arranged time schedule - no daytime, etc, etc. She has the mindset of an old maid auntie, but she is physically a beautiful woman. More significant is that there is little real interest in dialoge with me. She has almost no interest in learning English and teaches me no Thai. Therefore, any communication of a detailed nature is impossible. The marriage was a hurried affair that was based mostly on money, for both her and her family. While she does have liking and affection for me to a degree, it is not what it should be to hold a marriage together. I think this is not an easy thing to find, but it is important to me after being in two previous so, so marriages.

Sounds like the unhappy family life maybe the problem, along with traditional conservative attitudes. She's problem never felt love and doesn't know what it is or how to respond.

[Tippaporn]

TOP FIVE

1. Austria: 71.4 percent satisfied with their sex lives.

2. Spain: 69%.

3. Canada: 66.1%.

4. Belgium: 64.6%.

5. United States: 64.2%.

BOTTOM FIVE

25. Thailand: 35.9%.

26. China: 34.8%.

27. Indonesia: 33.9%.

28. Taiwan: 28.6%.

29. Japan: 25.7%.

So I guess the decision for those of us near the top of the list is, do we go learn from the Spanish and Austrians, or go teach the Japanese?

cv

Being snowbound for as long as y'all are every winter (most of the year) it's no surprise that you'd get good at it after awhile.

[jamman]

[

As a favour to Jamman, here a link to "pseudointellectual", I believe I explained it before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-intellectual

But if you can't grasp what intellectual means, you won't understand pseudo-intellectual, either.

That's how the thing perpetuates itself.

Why are you trying to educate me on the definitions of pseudo-intellectual or intellectual? Do you see anyone confused over what their definitions are? The discussion is much more nuanced than that. I understand that pseudo-intellectual is meant to mean "lacking in the requisite background knowledge and experience to have an informed opinion", however I rarely see it used that way - it seems to me that "pseudo" is most often merely tacked onto the word intellectual to make intellectual into a pejorative term, meaning irrelevant and self-involved and overly speculative.

I lament that "intellectual" has come to connote disembodied, irrelevant to real physical and emotional life, and that careful thought and precise speech is considered at once excessive, or "intellectual", and fake, arrogant, haughty, or "pseudo".

Necessarily precise choices of words, such as "lament" over "regret", or "connote" instead of "mean", are thought overly formal, out of place, specious; as if a lawyer and an English professor had shown up in business suits at the family picnic.

The uniquely human trait of curiosity, the compulsive drive to understanding with ever more precise mental models, is somehow considered irrelevant mental masturbation, as if the very act of seeking an accurate mental model hides the truth that it seeks.

We can get hypnotized by ideas, and neglect to inhabit our other domains, the physical, emotional, sexual, social, and spiritual. But it doesn't follow that there is a danger of being too intellectual, when it is ideas that are being exchanged. I would hate to be accused of being too emotional when embracing my child, or too sexual during sex, or too self absorbed during contemplative meditation, or too awe struck during a nature reverie, or too devotional during a spiritual reverie, or too unfocused during deep dreamless sleep. The time of words is not an insult to our other seasons, and does not stand insulated and apart from them.

So in order to subvert the negative connotations popularly given to the word intellectual, I will take up the term "mental masturbation" with pride instead of sin. Doesn't the image illuminate the bodily pleasures of thought? And when two or more people engage in mutual mental masturbation, I think the Lewinsky episode made clear that that is considered sex.

So here is a toast to good uninhibited mind-sex. Even pseudo-sex is preferable to being celibate.

Edited May 5, 2006 by jamman

[Dustoff]

Why are you trying to educate me on the definitions of pseudo-intellectual or intellectual? Do you see anyone confused over what their definitions are? The discussion is much more nuanced than that. I understand that pseudo-intellectual is meant to mean "lacking in the requisite background knowledge and experience to have an informed opinion", however I rarely see it used that way - it seems to me that "pseudo" is most often merely tacked onto the word intellectual to make intellectual into a pejorative term, meaning irrelevant and self-involved and overly speculative.

I lament that "intellectual" has come to connote disembodied, irrelevant to real physical and emotional life, and that careful thought and precise speech is considered at once excessive, or "intellectual", and fake, arrogant, haughty, or "pseudo".

Necessarily precise choices of words, such as "lament" over "regret", or "connote" instead of "mean", are thought overly formal, out of place, specious; as if a lawyer and an English professor had shown up in business suits at the family picnic.

The uniquely human trait of curiosity, the compulsive drive to understanding with ever more precise mental models, is somehow considered irrelevant mental masturbation, as if the very act of seeking an accurate mental model hides the truth that it seeks.

We can get hypnotized by ideas, and neglect to inhabit our other domains, the physical, emotional, sexual, social, and spiritual. But it doesn't follow that there is a danger of being too intellectual, when it is ideas that are being exchanged. I would hate to be accused of being too emotional when embracing my child, or too sexual during sex, or too self absorbed during contemplative meditation, or too awe struck during a nature reverie, or too devotional during a spiritual reverie, or too unfocused during deep dreamless sleep. The time of words is not an insult to our other seasons, and does not stand insulated and apart from them.

So in order to subvert the negative connotations popularly given to the word intellectual, I will take up the term "mental masturbation" with pride instead of sin. Doesn't the image illuminate the bodily pleasures of thought? And when two or more people engage in mutual mental masturbation, I think the Lewinsky episode made clear that that is considered sex.

So here is a toast to good uninhibited mind-sex. Even pseudo-sex is preferable to being celibate.

Ah Jamman, thanks for the memories!

I recall graduating many times with top honors;

Passing the MENSA tests with ease;

Proudly pontificating;

Taking on all challengers to my obvious brilliance and education.

Then came the decades of disappointment that my fellow man just did not understand;

Nor did they seem to care.

Not to mention the lonliness and frustration from the realization that my intelligence and education did not grant me the ability to effectively communicate with my fellow countrymen, my chosen mates, my own kind.

I was, after all, superior!

Go figure..

While exploring history I ran across something that Winston Churchill said that went somthing like,

"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."

Now sixty-five years of age, I think that I am finally getting it; that as Mother Theresa said, "No matter who says what, you should accept it with a smile and do your own work."

But then maybe ya'll is smarter than us anti-intellectualists?

Sorry but, I have my doubts.

Go figure...

[jamman]

Why are you trying to educate me on the definitions of pseudo-intellectual or intellectual? Do you see anyone confused over what their definitions are? The discussion is much more nuanced than that. I understand that pseudo-intellectual is meant to mean "lacking in the requisite background knowledge and experience to have an informed opinion", however I rarely see it used that way - it seems to me that "pseudo" is most often merely tacked onto the word intellectual to make intellectual into a pejorative term, meaning irrelevant and self-involved and overly speculative.

I lament that "intellectual" has come to connote disembodied, irrelevant to real physical and emotional life, and that careful thought and precise speech is considered at once excessive, or "intellectual", and fake, arrogant, haughty, or "pseudo".

Necessarily precise choices of words, such as "lament" over "regret", or "connote" instead of "mean", are thought overly formal, out of place, specious; as if a lawyer and an English professor had shown up in business suits at the family picnic.

The uniquely human trait of curiosity, the compulsive drive to understanding with ever more precise mental models, is somehow considered irrelevant mental masturbation, as if the very act of seeking an accurate mental model hides the truth that it seeks.

We can get hypnotized by ideas, and neglect to inhabit our other domains, the physical, emotional, sexual, social, and spiritual. But it doesn't follow that there is a danger of being too intellectual, when it is ideas that are being exchanged. I would hate to be accused of being too emotional when embracing my child, or too sexual during sex, or too self absorbed during contemplative meditation, or too awe struck during a nature reverie, or too devotional during a spiritual reverie, or too unfocused during deep dreamless sleep. The time of words is not an insult to our other seasons, and does not stand insulated and apart from them.

So in order to subvert the negative connotations popularly given to the word intellectual, I will take up the term "mental masturbation" with pride instead of sin. Doesn't the image illuminate the bodily pleasures of thought? And when two or more people engage in mutual mental masturbation, I think the Lewinsky episode made clear that that is considered sex.

So here is a toast to good uninhibited mind-sex. Even pseudo-sex is preferable to being celibate.

Ah Jamman, thanks for the memories!

I recall graduating many times with top honors;

Passing the MENSA tests with ease;

Proudly pontificating;

Taking on all challengers to my obvious brilliance and education.

Then came the decades of disappointment that my fellow man just did not understand;

Nor did they seem to care.

Not to mention the lonliness and frustration from the realization that my intelligence and education did not grant me the ability to effectively communicate with my fellow countrymen, my chosen mates, my own kind.

I was, after all, superior!

Go figure..

While exploring history I ran across something that Winston Churchill said that went somthing like,

"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."

Now sixty-five years of age, I think that I am finally getting it; that as Mother Theresa said, "No matter who says what, you should accept it with a smile and do your own work."

But then maybe ya'll is smarter than us anti-intellectualists?

Sorry but, I have my doubts.

Go figure...

Aren't you betraying your elder found wisdom with your post? It seems you are rebutting, which would be great, except that I don't see you listening to or engaging my thoughts at all. Not one of my thoughts has been addressed. Hmmmmm. Learned a thing or two, have you?

And why did the subject of smarter than thou come up? One of my interests is to understand varied ways we organise our world - and it isn't as simple as smart ways and dum ways. There are developmental stages each and all of us pass through, but some people usually act from world views that others have moved past. I can explain this in detail or point to references if you like. If those of us who are not pre-rational and pre-egoic can't so fully understand our previous ways that we can't put ourselves in others shoes, then yes, the frustration will lead us to repulsion. So I figure that love comes through understanding.

Have you ever had a girlfriend who was pre-rational? I have had several. Loveable several. A pre would at this point interject and fault me for loving a pre. Many pre's are not stupid. But to talk in detail about this is very touchy, and I won't unless asked.

This is an email I sent to a new found email pen pal that addresses mental masturbation, heady argument, and their merits.

----

You're certainly right that what counts as interesting to me seems trivial to most, and my writing style does lean to being pedantic and dry and droning, and you are right that writing well involves not just being interesting and engaging, but writing to the audience. All that being true will make it a bigger challenge to write the essay, because I actually find some of the ideas not only interesting but worth expressing. So how to distill out what I have to say and present in in a palatable and interesting way - that will stretch my ability - so thats a fun little challenge.

What I think I have to say can be summed up that men are attracted to women generally as some sort of opposites attract thing - male/female polarity being the most obvious. Asians hype up their femininity, while western women sometimes actually downplay it.

Also I want to mention the idea of service versus servitude, and point out that in the west being so very careful about not oppressing anyone has made people see in terms of sharing every task instead of symbiotically giving.

So there, I've put the gist of all those rambling posts into two little paragraphs. Let's see if in the rewrite I can be compact and engaging and say something worth saying, or if I ramble pedantically. Speaking to a readership doesn't come naturally to me, that is why I use Thaivisa - to see how my words are interpreted and what people take from them.

I know what you mean about mellowing with age. Believe it or not, I'm way less argumentative and pedantic now than I used to be! But if I don't actually understand something, it helps me to use the format of argument to congeal and clarify my thought. And besides, every time I do so I imagine that I am excersising the powers of communication, so that if I'm careful one day I will be skillful enough to write to larger audiences, perhaps in a book or website. I obviously have a lot to learn before I could write something popular, but I do feel that I have things worth communicating, and I want to communicate them.

I have in mind as a big project writing about energy work and chi-kung and sex, in a gonzo style that will include first person anectodes, alongside meditative excersises, alongside interviews with energetic healers and those healed. I'm still trying to envision the big picture, the outline and format, but I'm certain that my life experience and skill with words can combine into an offering of value and interest. And hopefully I'll avoid being dry and pedandic and overly polemic. My sense of humor is largely an inside joke, with only me laughing - that can't do for something I want to share with many people.

As for over analyzing, I agree a person can take things too seriously, wasting precious moments distracted in mental game play. I like to sometimes be equally vigilant and sharp without words - paying attention to just being aware with no distraction. I've found that value lies neither only here or only there, and I do respect being precise with thought. Over years being so brings me powers of having lived an examined life, and all the cultivated arrogances mulch into a refined humus of hubris. You can't get really good compost out of weeds - you have to cultivate it. I want to have something to say - like the writer and advice columnist Garrison Keilor does. He not only has been in situations, he has vigorously engaged them with his faculties - intellect, heart, sex, body, spirit, muse included - and so has included the world into himself and can speak on it with useful wisdom.

I'd rather overdo than underdo, in the hope that balance will come from sheer refinement of insight.

But, sadly, as you can see by the above, many find my style taxing. But this is what I am and this is what I do. It's not fake, I'm just passionate about lots of stuff, and like to engage some things at levels others find trivial.

About Tantric sex - I agree that thinking can over-ride direct feeling. It has also been said that mastery over the subtle sexual energies happens only at the high level of development that happens after a person is rational, even though the sexual energies can be felt and shared by people at very low levels of development. So Sarah was so profound a lover because she could barely think at all, and so fully could embody her sex with no hindrance, but a person who is post-rational, that is a person who not only is rational but also can embody their sex, can have more insight and power and control and mastery.

About opening myself up on forums, well, that's what they are for. It's only a forum - nothing to lose. I want to be honest and forthright and see the reaction. And then, perhaps, I may wise up and learn how to be honest and forthright in a less grating way.

Edited May 5, 2006 by jamman

[English Noodles]

An intellectual during the night ravished his grandmother and for this got a beating from his father. He complained: "You've been mounting my mother for a long time, without suffering any consequences from me. And now you're mad that you found me screwing your mother for the first time ever!"

[jamman]

An intellectual during the night ravished his grandmother and for this got a beating from his father. He complained: "You've been mounting my mother for a long time, without suffering any consequences from me. And now you're mad that you found me screwing your mother for the first time ever!"

First, i want to say that I have a sense of humor as good as anyone elses. Well, not really, but I know what a sense of humor is. And I can tell you that this joke is simply not funny.

Edited May 5, 2006 by jamman

[English Noodles]

I like it

[jamman]

I like it

Ripped off, geek style, from Monty Python.

[English Noodles]

I like it

Ripped off, geek style, from Monty Python.

[jamman]

...

Then came the decades of disappointment that my fellow man just did not understand;

Nor did they seem to care.

Not to mention the lonliness and frustration from the realization that my intelligence and education did not grant me the ability to effectively communicate with my fellow countrymen, my chosen mates, my own kind.

Go figure...

This was recently posted in a local Bali rag by one of my new heros:

Towering Babble

What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. - Captain, Road Prison 36 (Strother Martin). in the 1967 movie ‘Cool Hand Luke’

Most of you reading this will not understand it. The US Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics said in November that “prose literacy” among national university graduates fell to 31 percent in 2003, from 40 percent in 1992. Among those with post-graduate degrees, prose proficiency fell to 41 percent from 51 percent over the same time span. And that’s in the country with supposedly the best university system in the world. (Christian Science Monitor, Dec. 29, 2005)

Accepting those percentages as a universal marker – problematic I realize – would mean maybe a third of the Bali Advertiser readership comprehends what the columnists write. If an argument can be made that some English-speaking countries teach the basics of education better than the US, then whatever comprehension percentage gained among native English readers is likely offset by the many people reading the paper in a second language.

It is distressing to contemplate that written words have such a low efficiency rate. Even assuming that a writer has put down what he means to say – and the low “prose literacy” rate in reading puts that in doubt – there is no guarantee he has communicated his thoughts to a reader. “Letters to the Editor” sections often carry examples where someone clearly mistook a commentator’s or reporter’s meaning. Perhaps a satirical tone was missed. Perhaps a quick read gave the reader only an impression of what the author was saying. Maybe the reader doesn’t “do” nuance, preferring or needing instead the prose equivalent of a two-by-four smack between the eyes.

Many people right now are congratulating themselves on being in the third with reading proficiency. But how do they know? Consider this: most incompetent people don’t know they are incompetent, according to studies conducted in the 1990s by Dr. David A. Dunning, a professor of psychology at Cornell University in New York. The problem, Dr. Dunning believed, is that “the skills required for competence often are the same skills necessary to recognize competence,” (according to a Jan. 18, 2000 article in the New York Times).

In tests designed to compare ability versus self-evaluation, people scoring in the lowest percentiles consistently over-rated their performance. Specifically, test subjects scoring in the 10th percentile on the grammar test ranked themselves in the 67th percentile in their ability to “identify grammatically correct standard English.” On the test of logical reasoning, subjects scoring in the 12th percentile ranked their reasoning skill in the 68th percentile.

The possibility we must contemplate, then, is that only a small percentage of people in the world are intelligent, and nobody is certain who the intelligent ones are – not even the intelligent themselves (only the unintelligent would fail to think of the possibility that they aren’t really intelligent, just incompetent). Moreover, none of us can ever be sure that we are reading, writing, talking, or communicating in a language or representational system with any accuracy, understanding, or comprehension.

So, going by the US Dept. of Education statistics and Dr. Dunning’s study, a few readers are nodding along; the rest are bewildered, maybe cursing me for calling them stupid, maybe happily oblivious they have missed my meaning … or maybe I have just been writing gibberish ever since I left the safe ground of quoting articles in the Christian Science Monitor and the New York Times … which I may not have understood anyway.

Language brings only the illusion of understanding. Basic reading and writing is so widespread in most societies we forget it is a skill humanity learned slowly. Even when two people speak the same language, communication is hard and has to be worked at. I once told a British friend my favorite activity as a youth was “shagging flies.” I was referring to my baseball playing days, when practice included hours of “shagging” — or catching — pop flies, that is, baseballs hit high into the air to be caught by the fielders. “Shagging flies,” of course, has a different meaning in British parlance, and my friend did not hold the image I meant to convey.

All of which goes to demonstrate the level of insanity displayed by English-speaking persons when they abuse an unlucky service person that doesn’t immediately grasp the meaning of their pidgin Indo-English … or post signs along rice field paths warning in English against dumping household garbage in the streams … or plea – again in English in big red letters — that farmers in the area stop poisoning the dogs and stealing the water pumps. It demonstrates, too, the folly of anyone who thinks conversational ability in a language gives them instant access to the philosophy, symbolism, and collective spirit that is its underlying basis.

Not even talk, it would seem, is easy.

E-mail: [email protected]

Copyright © 2005 Lee Roy LeRoi

You can read all past articles of Bali Skeptic at www.BaliAdvertiser.biz

I think his last paragraph was too multiculturalist apologetic, but on the whole he makes a point that English speakers are classed into separate spheres.

[soic]

So we went from Sex to Intellect. This has turned into a Mind <deleted>! At least Noodles joke was about sex!!!! "What's grosser than grose? When you kiss your grandma good night and she slips you the tongue" Come on guys, drop the dictionaries and let's have some good ole' fun sex talk again.

[ilyushin]

Met some babes that didn't need 11 minutes. They hold land speed records compared with the article. Gentlemen , 4 minutes? Our averages must come up on the evolutionary chart. Foreplay is all part of the show!

you stud you....are you sure its just not an illushion !!!

I know! The babes just love me. No illushion , but an Ilyushin 76TD fitted with heat seeking moister missle