Changing China Set to Shake World Economy, Again

[SinglePot]

Stick with the dogs you are familiar with.

Exactly.

[LawrenceChee]

Stick with the dogs you are familiar with.

Exactly.

Sounds lot funnier when you can say it in mandarin ...pub jokes is rather similar to teatime jokes.

[SinglePot]

Stick with the dogs you are familiar with.

Exactly.

Sounds lot funnier when you can say it in mandarin ...pub jokes is rather similar to teatime jokes.

'In one ear, out the other' seems to work very well in China.

It may get lost in translation though.

Only you will know.

[Publicus]

There are a number of local protests each year in the CCP-PRC. The protests focus in localities or are conducted by individuals due to land grabs by the CCP or some gross violation of a local norm, such as brutalizing a local petitioner which only occasionally occurs as the CCP is careful not to provoke anger among the people.

The CIA says there were 100,000 such protests last year and that that number is stable annually.

For sure, the PRChinese are not going to take to the streets for any reason or purpose, at least not in mass.

Not yet. Not before the fall.

Most urban PRChinese know the economy is full of bubbles, from the property market to the credit bombs in the banks and throughout the financial system, to include the shadow banking system, and to local government debt. Most urban PRChinese know their economic model has expired and that a new model has to come from the CCP, one that is more consumer oriented and which is designed to develop the economy domestically.

These PRChinese want to believe the CCP will manage and control the several bubbles that exist in the various sectors of the overall economy and financial system. The PRChinese really want to believe this.

Yet, unknown to these PRChinese, the evidence is, over the past 200 years - from Tulip Mania to the US Subprime debacle that crashed in 2008 - a bubble never ends well. And the CCP has several bubbles occurring simultaneously, huge bubbles. The bubble in the property market is now recognized to be at US $22 trillion.

When the first bubble bursts, the cascade of bursting bubbles will begin. Property values will crash. Personal savings will be obliterated. Even those with the cushioned positions in the State Owned Enterprises will see their pay come to them in monopoly money, money that buys little or nothing.

History shows that when the Chinese people do face a situation that forces them into the streets in mass, it's because the situation is catastrophic. Anybody of the failed established order standing in their way is quickly swept away forever.

Which is why so many CCP officials have bought homes in Western countries. They will remain in the CCP-PRC for the present so they can continue to extract every RMB they possibly can stuff into their personal bags. Then when the crash comes, away they will go.

As much as the urban PRChinese want to believe the CCP will deliver long term stability and economic growth, they see the bubbles and they know their local CCP officials are on ready standby to scramble up, up and away.

So everyone's waiting to see if lightening strikes the shithouse.

Meanwhile, no one is going near it.

[SinglePot]

Yes, the potential impact on inbound tourism can not be underestimated.

Tourism is a very important contributor to a country's economy, as we know from our experience in Thailand.

[SinglePot]

Quote re Vote from a CCP supporter:

"I'll vote for a government that works ...the rest is deservedly baloney and should be ignored.

As I mentioned the CCP is not perfect but I like the direction it's going with the changes to try to make things better"

What about people who don't?

They can't vote in the PRC.

No voice.

[LawrenceChee]

Quote re Vote from a CCP supporter:

"I'll vote for a government that works ...the rest is deservedly baloney and should be ignored.

As I mentioned the CCP is not perfect but I like the direction it's going with the changes to try to make things better"

What about people who don't?

They can't vote in the PRC.

No voice.

There are similarities here in the link I posted earlier about the bodies of the CCP ..most Chinese are also surprised a president/ prime minister is not voted by popular vote in the USA or in the UK.

I was wondering the other day when I posted the article I read about USA having the most number of prisoners in the world. Do they vote ? Not a sarcastic question ...

Most were under the assumption that every vote counts as the western media painted it only to realize it is not the case and it's by electoral majority.

HK and Macau remains autonomous as the CCP would like to find out more what happens when you have provinces that allows for protests and relative freedom, does that really mean a better standard of living , happier people etc ?

50 years for that social finding and this is year 16

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/american_v_british_elections.htm

[SinglePot]

Yep. Voting in the PRC did make me chuckle.

Almost as much as 'lightning striking the shithouse'

[Publicus]

Quote re Vote from a CCP supporter:

"I'll vote for a government that works ...the rest is deservedly baloney and should be ignored.

As I mentioned the CCP is not perfect but I like the direction it's going with the changes to try to make things better"

What about people who don't?

They can't vote in the PRC.

No voice.

There are similarities here in the link I posted earlier about the bodies of the CCP ..most Chinese are also surprised a president/ prime minister is not voted by popular vote in the USA or in the UK.

I was wondering the other day when I posted the article I read about USA having the most number of prisoners in the world. Do they vote ? Not a sarcastic question ...

Most were under the assumption that every vote counts as the western media painted it only to realize it is not the case and it's by electoral majority.

HK and Macau remains autonomous as the CCP would like to find out more what happens when you have provinces that allows for protests and relative freedom, does that really mean a better standard of living , happier people etc ?

50 years for that social finding and this is year 16

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/american_v_british_elections.htm

The CCP has been doing everything it can to try to eliminate democracy from Hong Kong. The good news is that Beijing is losing badly in their campaign to bring HKG under its heel.

The present chief executive will be the final one chosen by Beijing's awkward 800 member committee appointed by Beijing but which has only about 15% membership directly elected by a small circle of approved voters in HKG.

Those days are gone.

Even the small number of carefully selected eligible voters in HKG defied Beijing three years ago to vote to approve universal suffrage for HKG. The next chief executive and legislative council will be elected by all the voters of HKG 18 years or older. This is a huge setback for Beijing, which screamed and hollered against universal suffrage for months during the leadup to the vote approving universal suffrage for HKG.

HKG is moving away from Beijing decidedly and the Boyz in Beijing know it. HKG isn't going to be a model to Beijing for anything except how to become another Taiwan.

[LawrenceChee]

Premier Li has asked for trade growth between China and ASEAN to continue in the Asia Way and expected to exceed 1 trillion dollars and for futures ties in with strategic partnerships.

Malaysia , Brunei, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia and Myanmar already have established trade ties that will benefits its people and consumption growth.

Laos, Cambodia, Philippines and Vietnam all potential future areas for more trade

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2013-10/09/content_17016281.htm

[Publicus]

The property market bubble in the CCP-PRC is now recognized to be USD $22 trillion.

The property market is only one of several bubbles in the CCP-PRC economy, financial system both above ground and underground, and of the huge local government debt bomb that no longer can be disguised.

When the first bubble explodes, then comes the cascade of all the other bubbles.

The CCP have their private planes on ready standby.

[LawrenceChee]

I guess at times there is more joy hoping another country crash and burn vs the stark reality that the bubbles in ones own country has burst a couple of times causing hardship to the average citizen, an actual debt of trillions that won't go away and financial systems that have already been exposed.

a government that is now a mockery as it cannot get 2 parties to agree ...after all 2 parties is just one more than CCP so logic defies why they cannot get it right.

I hope the time is still on the CCP side to change those bubbles. No one needs China to fail now with the economy this frail already

[LawrenceChee]

With its current trade ties to Australia, African nations, South American bloc, ASEAN and Japan all rising, the vacuum left behind by a crashed China will mean the average people who depend on jobs connected to these trade ties will suffer much hardship.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that they stick to the 10 year plan of restructuring the economy, dump the GDP targets and focus on local growth engines and strengthening food security and standards

[Publicus]

I guess at times there is more joy hoping another country crash and burn vs the stark reality that the bubbles in ones own country has burst a couple of times causing hardship to the average citizen, an actual debt of trillions that won't go away and financial systems that have already been exposed.

a government that is now a mockery as it cannot get 2 parties to agree ...after all 2 parties is just one more than CCP so logic defies why they cannot get it right.

I hope the time is still on the CCP side to change those bubbles. No one needs China to fail now with the economy this frail already

Where in my posts do I express "joy" over the coming collapse of the CCP-PRC?

I write of and present the inevitable.

And yes, I will be happy and relieved to see the world ridded of a Marxist-Maoist-Leninist dictatorship that, in the 21st century is a censoring, punishing, elitist single party fascist dictatorship that detests democracy and human rights, and believes literally it has the inherent right to lord over all of the world above and beyond any rule of a consensual international law.

You reference "logic" and the US two party system. Chinese logic is opposite the Aristotelian logic of Western society and civilization. The CCP teaches there's no difference between the two major parties of the US or among the political parties of any multi-party Western parliamentary system. This warped belief system was recently rejected by the people of Hong Kong when the CCP in Beijing tried unsuccessfully to introduce CCP single party teachings into the territory's school curriculum. Because HKG has and believes in a multi-party political system, the CCP teaching was rejected by parents and citizens. Indeed, HKG instead will hold its first full and free election in 2018 - much to the misery of the CCP in Beijing. Your logic is ancient Chinese logic, which hasn't had any efficacy for the past 500 years or more.

A financial bubble never ends well. The CCP has multiple huge bubbles it can't possibly manage, control, shrink. A central reason is the endemic corruption that knows no cultural or civilizational limits or bounds. This, coupled with the single party state-owned and controlled political economy, makes the demise of the CCP-PRC inevitable.

That's reality.

Any joy would be icing on the cake. I'm thinking of the collapse of the Soviet Union due to its own dead weight. I'm thinking V-E Day and V-J Day. That kind of joy.

[LawrenceChee]

Premier Li continues to make commitments to peace in the South China Sea with the DOC and also proposing a hotline for its member nations to minimize tensions, incidents and disputes over miscommunications

It has also proposed a treaty of friendliness that enhances China's desire to engage the area peacefully and has no military intentions. It is being examined by ASEAN leaders on the salient points.

[SinglePot]

Well said Publicus.

I am thinking what a hilarious Mandarin joke and does it translate into HK Cantonese. Looks like the answer is NO.

The Bullies from Beijing.

[LawrenceChee]

Well said Publicus.

I am thinking what a hilarious Mandarin joke and does it translate into HK Cantonese. Looks like the answer is NO.

The Bullies from Beijing.

Cantonese is a dialect for the southern province ...no such thing as HK Cantonese.

We can get on a debate on the party systems but it's not for this topic , so start another and I will join in with my views

[SinglePot]

Premier Li continues to make commitments to peace in the South China Sea with the DOC and also proposing a hotline for its member nations to minimize tensions, incidents and disputes over miscommunications

It has also proposed a treaty of friendliness that enhances China's desire to engage the area peacefully and has no military intentions. It is being examined by ASEAN leaders on the salient points.

GIve us your thoughts on HK before drifting into the South China Sea.

Seems like some pretty cogent comments have been made in response to yours.

[Publicus]

Premier Li continues to make commitments to peace in the South China Sea with the DOC and also proposing a hotline for its member nations to minimize tensions, incidents and disputes over miscommunications

It has also proposed a treaty of friendliness that enhances China's desire to engage the area peacefully and has no military intentions. It is being examined by ASEAN leaders on the salient points.

The CCP-PRC continues brazenly to assert absolute territorial sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea.

The Philippines currently is pressing its case at the UN against Beijing's bold and shameless encroachments into the West Philippine Sea, a case that is not going well for Beijing, as any peaceful and rational person should expect. The UN is in fact in the process of ultimately taking Beijing to task for its violations of the International Convention on the of Law of the Sea in the case brought last year by the Philippine government.

Beijing has advised both the United States and India to stay out of the South China Sea disputes with Asean countries - the same warnings went to Australia and Japan.

Yet yesterday the US, Australia and Japan issued a joint statement opposing the “coercive or unilateral actions” in maritime disputes during a trilateral strategic dialogue at the Asia-Pacific Economic leaders’ conference in Bali, Indonesia.

The CCP-PRC and Japan are in a long-standing and increasingly dangerous dispute over unpopulated but resource rich islands in the East China Sea. Beijing also is in territorial disputes with Vietnam, the Philippines, the sovereign country of Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei Darussalam over the Spratly Islands.

Vietnam has contracted with India to begin drilling preparations in certain SCS lots within Vietnam territorial waters claimed by Beijing in Beijing's larger and outrageous claim over all of the SCS. India and Japan have recently had naval exercises in the East China Sea; India and Australia recently held joint naval exercises in the Bay of Bengal off the coast of Myanmar where Beijing is building a naval base.

Beijing's regional intentions are neither honorable nor are they trustworthy.

Indeed, as reported at the link below, the Philippine government defended its allies from accusations made by China that they are intervening in the West Philippine Sea dispute.

Palace Spokesman Edwin Lacierda said the United States, Australia and Japan have interests in the disputed areas to protect freedom of navigation.

“A big percentage of world’s trade passes through our waters, the waters that is a subject of dispute right now. Do they have an interest? Yes, they have an interest because of freedom of navigation,” Lacierda said. http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/index.php/en/news/nation/20564-philippines-china-code-of-conduct-at-wps-may-soon-be-adopted-Aquino

[Publicus]

Premier Li continues to make commitments to peace in the South China Sea with the DOC and also proposing a hotline for its member nations to minimize tensions, incidents and disputes over miscommunications

It has also proposed a treaty of friendliness that enhances China's desire to engage the area peacefully and has no military intentions. It is being examined by ASEAN leaders on the salient points.

GIve us your thoughts on HK before drifting into the South China Sea.

Seems like some pretty cogent comments have been made in response to yours.

Beijing has lost control over Hong Kong, so there's nothing much he can say about the flourishing of democracy there.

Beijing's design to reduce Hong Kong in favor of developing Shanghai as the region's financial center is severely faltering, as evidenced by the CCP's desperate effort last month to initiate a limited Free Trade Zone in one district of Shanghai rather than to begin serious macroeconomic economic and financial restructuring and reform. Premier Li has said nothing will be concluded from the Shanghai FTZ experience for three years, which will require an additional three years to study and analyze. Promises, promises and more delays and putoffs.

Now Asean with the US, Australia, Japan, India are pressuring Beijing on its outrageous and brazen assertions of sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea. Beijing has been delaying signing a peaceful Code of Conduct concerning the SCS since 2002, but now is beginning to come around to the realization that it hasn't much choice in the matter, what with the UN soon to come down on the CCP in the case brought against Beijing before the UN Tribunal on the International Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Mr. Chee already has little or nothing to say concerning the South China Sea encroachments of Beijing either.

[SinglePot]

I guess at times there is more joy hoping another country crash and burn vs the stark reality that the bubbles in ones own country has burst a couple of times causing hardship to the average citizen, an actual debt of trillions that won't go away and financial systems that have already been exposed.

a government that is now a mockery as it cannot get 2 parties to agree ...after all 2 parties is just one more than CCP so logic defies why they cannot get it right.

I hope the time is still on the CCP side to change those bubbles. No one needs China to fail now with the economy this frail already

Where in my posts do I express "joy" over the coming collapse of the CCP-PRC?

I write of and present the inevitable.

And yes, I will be happy and relieved to see the world ridded of a Marxist-Maoist-Leninist dictatorship that, in the 21st century is a censoring, punishing, elitist single party fascist dictatorship that detests democracy and human rights, and believes literally it has the inherent right to lord over all of the world above and beyond any rule of a consensual international law.

You reference "logic" and the US two party system. Chinese logic is opposite the Aristotelian logic of Western society and civilization. The CCP teaches there's no difference between the two major parties of the US or among the political parties of any multi-party Western parliamentary system. This warped belief system was recently rejected by the people of Hong Kong when the CCP in Beijing tried unsuccessfully to introduce CCP single party teachings into the territory's school curriculum. Because HKG has and believes in a multi-party political system, the CCP teaching was rejected by parents and citizens. Indeed, HKG instead will hold its first full and free election in 2018 - much to the misery of the CCP in Beijing. Your logic is ancient Chinese logic, which hasn't had any efficacy for the past 500 years or more.

A financial bubble never ends well. The CCP has multiple huge bubbles it can't possibly manage, control, shrink. A central reason is the endemic corruption that knows no cultural or civilizational limits or bounds. This, coupled with the single party state-owned and controlled political economy, makes the demise of the CCP-PRC inevitable.

That's reality.

Any joy would be icing on the cake. I'm thinking of the collapse of the Soviet Union due to its own dead weight. I'm thinking V-E Day and V-J Day. That kind of joy.

Cogent response to this from Chee would be appreciated.

Pigs might fly.

[Publicus]

Well said Publicus.

I am thinking what a hilarious Mandarin joke and does it translate into HK Cantonese. Looks like the answer is NO.

The Bullies from Beijing.

Cantonese is a dialect for the southern province ...no such thing as HK Cantonese.

We can get on a debate on the party systems but it's not for this topic , so start another and I will join in with my views

Chinese in the southern provinces don't accept Mandarin because its origin is in Mongolia, long ago, not in China itself.

Speakers of Cantonese in the South of China consider Cantonese to be the native Chinese language.

Beijing's attempt to enforce the use of Mandarin in southern China was met with massive protest in street demonstrations throughout the South, particularly in Guangzhou City, the capital of Guangdong Province, and in Hong Kong.

China needs a common national language, but Mandarin doesn't cut it, never will. It's in fact divisive for Beijing to try to enforce Mandarin on the southern provinces where Cantonese is the mother tongue, to include Hong Kong.

[FDog]

Beijing has lost control over Hong Kong, so there's nothing much he can say about the flourishing of democracy there.

Beijing's design to reduce Hong Kong in favor of developing Shanghai as the region's financial center is severely faltering, as evidenced by the CCP's desperate effort last month to initiate a limited Free Trade Zone in one district of Shanghai rather than to begin serious macroeconomic economic and financial restructuring and reform. Premier Li has said nothing will be concluded from the Shanghai FTZ experience for three years, which will require an additional three years to study and analyze. Promises, promises and more delays and putoffs.

Now Asean with the US, Australia, Japan, India are pressuring Beijing on its outrageous and brazen assertions of sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea. Beijing has been delaying signing a peaceful Code of Conduct concerning the SCS since 2002, but now is beginning to come around to the realization that it hasn't much choice in the matter, what with the UN soon to come down on the CCP in the case brought against Beijing before the UN Tribunal on the International Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Mr. Chee already has little or nothing to say concerning the South China Sea encroachments of Beijing either.

On another thread about Snowden you were crowing about China controlling Hong Kong and that HK would just do anything China tells it to do, that HK was just a puppet of Beijing.

Yet here you are now saying Beijing has lost control of HK.

I guess it is easy to just say anything to suit your argument.

Newsflash, many many people don't care too much about democracy. I don't care if I live in a democratic country or not, I have never voted in my life and never will.

China is certainly doing lots right to become so powerful. If it was a democracy you would be ok with it, but as it isn't you denigrate what they are doing. Democracy or not, China is doing a hell of a lot more than lots of democratic countries.

[SinglePot]

"Democracy or not, China is doing a hell of a lot more than lots of democratic countries."

Yep. ain't that the truth.

Want a list?

[Publicus]

Beijing has lost control over Hong Kong, so there's nothing much he can say about the flourishing of democracy there.

Beijing's design to reduce Hong Kong in favor of developing Shanghai as the region's financial center is severely faltering, as evidenced by the CCP's desperate effort last month to initiate a limited Free Trade Zone in one district of Shanghai rather than to begin serious macroeconomic economic and financial restructuring and reform. Premier Li has said nothing will be concluded from the Shanghai FTZ experience for three years, which will require an additional three years to study and analyze. Promises, promises and more delays and putoffs.

Now Asean with the US, Australia, Japan, India are pressuring Beijing on its outrageous and brazen assertions of sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea. Beijing has been delaying signing a peaceful Code of Conduct concerning the SCS since 2002, but now is beginning to come around to the realization that it hasn't much choice in the matter, what with the UN soon to come down on the CCP in the case brought against Beijing before the UN Tribunal on the International Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Mr. Chee already has little or nothing to say concerning the South China Sea encroachments of Beijing either.

On another thread about Snowden you were crowing about China controlling Hong Kong and that HK would just do anything China tells it to do, that HK was just a puppet of Beijing.

Yet here you are now saying Beijing has lost control of HK.

I guess it is easy to just say anything to suit your argument.

Newsflash, many many people don't care too much about democracy. I don't care if I live in a democratic country or not, I have never voted in my life and never will.

China is certainly doing lots right to become so powerful. If it was a democracy you would be ok with it, but as it isn't you denigrate what they are doing. Democracy or not, China is doing a hell of a lot more than lots of democratic countries.

The one thing Hong Kong doesn't have is a Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Taiwan has a Ministry of Foreign Affairs, so we can talk of the independent foreign policy and independent foreign relations of the sovereign Republic of China, i.e., Taiwan.

Until Hong Kong can have its sovereign Ministry of Foreign Affairs, there's nothing much it can do at the UN or in international relations with sovereign governments. Hong Kong technically remains a Special Administrative Region, not a province, of the CCP-PRC (SAR). Hong Kong has its own flag, but is not sovereign. Consequently, in foreign relations, matters, affairs, Beijing continues to rule.

Hong Kong has however voted for itself universal suffrage, in stark defiance of the CCP in Beijing. Domestically, HKG is lost to the CCP in Beijing.

And BTW, thanks for such close and attentive reading of my posts at various threads concerning many different topics over a considerably extended period of time. In all modesty, I must say it's flattering for me to know I have a certain following. I appreciate it. Do continue to let me know how I'm doing. I may give some modest consideration to what you say.

[LawrenceChee]

Premier Li continues to make commitments to peace in the South China Sea with the DOC and also proposing a hotline for its member nations to minimize tensions, incidents and disputes over miscommunications

It has also proposed a treaty of friendliness that enhances China's desire to engage the area peacefully and has no military intentions. It is being examined by ASEAN leaders on the salient points.

GIve us your thoughts on HK before drifting into the South China Sea.

Seems like some pretty cogent comments have been made in response to yours.

Beijing has lost control over Hong Kong, so there's nothing much he can say about the flourishing of democracy there.

Beijing's design to reduce Hong Kong in favor of developing Shanghai as the region's financial center is severely faltering, as evidenced by the CCP's desperate effort last month to initiate a limited Free Trade Zone in one district of Shanghai rather than to begin serious macroeconomic economic and financial restructuring and reform. Premier Li has said nothing will be concluded from the Shanghai FTZ experience for three years, which will require an additional three years to study and analyze. Promises, promises and more delays and putoffs.

Now Asean with the US, Australia, Japan, India are pressuring Beijing on its outrageous and brazen assertions of sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea. Beijing has been delaying signing a peaceful Code of Conduct concerning the SCS since 2002, but now is beginning to come around to the realization that it hasn't much choice in the matter, what with the UN soon to come down on the CCP in the case brought against Beijing before the UN Tribunal on the International Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Mr. Chee already has little or nothing to say concerning the South China Sea encroachments of Beijing either.

Hong Kong is a sovereign province of China. Disillusion and meaningless debates will go on with the empire historic lovers of anything else otherwise. However it will lead to nought

There is no debate on control here as a sovereign province will never have a ministry of foreign affairs ? How illogical is that ...would another nation allow that ever that there be a disfraction to the country ? Weird this line of thinking as it seems the west is willing to impose rules on the 2nd biggest economy of the world.

As outgoing premier Wen mention in his speech, an increasing influential China needs to be aware of its international responsibilities while not cowering to the ways of the west. So china is setting its own path and policies and rightly defending them.

USA and European powers had in their time set trade terms, seized territories and imposed unfair laws...it will be silly to think a country as large as china will kowtow and follow the pack especially when the pack leaders have shown that clearly their own houses is not in order

China is doing what's important to them, securing their sea lanes and trade zones and as Premier Li has asserted today while there may lie within fraction friction on claims, no cargo or commercial interests have been obstructed in the disputed zones

Philippines rightly pursues an interest with its allies USA. They have very little to trade with china and is one of the few ASEAN countries that is not land linked. Indonesia has a natural gas interest much like Australia with its minerals and is linked by trade.

As such it is in Philippines best interest to hang on to USA and make sure they are not forgotten and I agree strategy wise it's smart of them to endear themselves to an Uncle Sam that is trying to stay relevant in the area with TPP which is facing accusations of secrecy in trade negotiations which is rare accusation against a nation that would rather be known to be open.

As moderates can see, china is not interested to police the area or be its regional boss or bully.

It just want trade and commercial deals although this could be hard to comprehend for some if you carry a political stuck to its

China have shown over the years that while consulting with the UN is important and collaboration remains vital, pure obedience as expected is folly.

[SinglePot]

"China have shown over the years that while consulting with the UN is important and collaboration remains vital, pure obedience as expected is folly."

You have a quaint slippery way Chee of saying China will do what it wants.

U mean when China and Russia refuses to follow the permanent pact on every issue including the recent case of Syria that means it should just be a follower and not have its own options or opinions ?

While Russia and china advocates peaceful talks, the other 4 were mostly interested in imposing terms and conditions

So now that they have compiled and destruction of the weapons has begun ...who was the wiser one ? Diplomacy and taking ones time or just action without thinking of the consequences ?

I wonder why that would be the case when one advocates free views ?

Have a look at the progress of ties between Taiwan and China over 60 years of talking.

It's the Asian way as advocated by premier Li today with is ASEAN neighbors and the Asians get it ...make a quarrel small, focus on trade and if it does not work ...remember time lots of time over a delayed decision is better than a rushed one

Nope. Still waiting for your comments on the points raised by Publicus earlier today.

I hope Yingluck and other leaders have their wits about them when they meet with your slippery cronies Xi and Li.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply deleted.

Edit: And some more posts and replies deleted. The topic is about Economics. Stay on topic.

[SinglePot]

"Changing China Set to Shake World Economy, Again"

Economy of China run by " a Marxist-Maoist-Leninist dictatorship that, in the 21st century is a censoring, punishing, elitist single party fascist dictatorship that detests democracy and human rights, and believes literally it has the inherent right to lord over all of the world above and beyond any rule of a consensual international law."

The Impact on World Economy has a bearing on me, SinglePot individual.

Do I get to vote, or do I leave it in the hands of elected representatives dealing with foreign affairs?

Let's hope they've got their wits about them eh?

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been deleted.