Important Update On The Recent Murder Of A New Zealand National In Pattaya.

[TPE]

Likewise I no longer spend much time on local forums - mainly as I returned to NZ several years ago, - I was getting to the stage where may well have copped a bullet also, or else cirrosis of the liver ! - actually I had a baby daughter who's wellbeing I put first, anyway, I do often get asked to comment in NZ on Asian affairs, having perhaps been the countries best known Investigator in S.E. Asia from the early 1990's to 2003, - my comment [ in todays Dominion Post] was that I very much doubted a mia noi would have the money or contacts, to arrange an obviously proffesional hit - we all know chonburi is the home of many gunmen - in my day a Hit on a farang was 100,000 bt, I doubt it has gone down ; we also know Thai [Police/govt] dont like bad news re tourist resorts lingering in the press for long, so like quick closures, - even if not always the correct one !

Allowing MilitiaX is correct in his facts, the 700,000bt does put a different light on things, and would seem to confirm the Girlfriends involvement - obviously the police will access her bank accounts, so that should confirm thing fairly quickly. Without doubt, somewhere along the line, major money will be involved for this to have happened, its not just a case of the girl, [ or other mia nois] having an extreme jealousy fit !

the original 'Thaiprivateeye.'

[Mobi]

.........I am not in the business of making stories up or even "sexing" stories up to get extra hits on my website or extra viewers on our TV show. There is sometimes too much inconsistency between the various organisations here in Pattaya and although sometimes, some information in our reports can be wrong, in the whole, we do get it right and I am proud of my journlaists who sometimes disagree with other local journalists on some aspects of stories because they know the information is not correct. ....

Howard

Thank you Howard, I can only accept what you say at face value and offer apologies for agreeing with the 'crap' sentiments posted on this thread.

I have two questions.

Firstly, why is it that virtually every report about a crime in Pattaya is carried by yourself and the other local papers with widely differing versions? The facts (and they can only be facts) are often so different that you can only identify that it is the same story by reference to the names of the people involved. Is it the case that PCN is always accurate and the other reports are 'sexed up'? Even if this is the case, it is hardly surprising that the readers treat all stories with a high degree of scepticism, bordering on contempt, is it?

Secondly, a question asked time and again. Why is there not more follow up to news stories?. We hear about the initial crime and the initial speculation on what happened - who did what to who etc - but there is rarely any follow up. Again, this lack of follow up by the press tends to breed contempt by readers, and also encourages our own speculation, coz we're never going to know what really happened.

Youir comments would be appreciated - when you have time, of course.

[TPE]

Mobi D

Can I maybe say in Howards defence, [ whom I have not met ] that by and large farangs, or anyone for that matter, is of course told by Thai Police just what the police feel like - so they may report in good faith, but it may not be the truth, and a different office may give a different tale !

I was framed/thrown in thai jails on more than 1 occasion, when someone wanted me out of the way - not very pleasant, and if i didnt have either the money or contacts, would have spent much longer than the usual 2 or 3 days inside ! - Again I feel it is a desire in this type of case, to have it wrapped and buried ASAP, - unfortunately that does not always mean it is solved correctly -

A number of high profile cases have been re-opened / questioned over the years, people who have been jailed for 10+ years have suddenly been set free ... the renowned [ forget her name, but she has a shocking hair-do] forensic Thai scientist has caught police out on many occasions over the past few years ... all a case of TIT I guess, -

[taxexile]

i would also like to thank howard (hm1973) for his post which goes some way to explaining how pcn gets its stories.

i have often criticized pcn on this forum for some of the information and conclusions it puts out , and your post does give some insight into the difficulties of getting accurate information about events.

but a news organisation that publishes inaccurate information (even if it was given that information in good faith) will have a hard time being taken seriously.

i also agree with mobi d'ark when he asks why is there rarely any follow up to these stories.

we never get to hear how these cases are concluded , we are just told what happened and what conclusions the first policeman on the scene jumped to , some of these conclusions are just so outrageous that you cant blame posters for making lighthearted jibes.

[yarpy]

I'm assuming that everyone on here knows that Howard is also a Tourist Police Volunteer and all that entails?

My sympathies to this guys friends and family.

As usual I doubt we'll ever know the full story.

[britmaveric]

I'm assuming that everyone on here knows that Howard is also a Tourist Police Volunteer and all that entails?

My sympathies to this guys friends and family.

As usual I doubt we'll ever know the full story.

No offense but TPV has naught to do with PCN. Let's leave well enough alone unless you want to see a closed topic.

[hm1973]

Taxexile and Mobi Dark,

Firstly, sorry for the delay in responding and I really don't want to hijack this thread and take away the fact that we should be discussing a terrible murder of a man in broad daylight. But I will respond to your questions, but I think we should make this the last post on general PCN questions and after this we should get back to the topic.

Follow-ups - I have been asked about this on a number of ocassions. On major stories such as this one, we are easily able to follow-up to it's conclusion. However on some of the other cases (drugs, assault, immigration arresting foreigners and other minor crimes), the cases are sent to the court. We are not given access to the court. Please come to your own conclusions as to why we are not allowed to asign a reporter to the courthouse. PCN has been operating now for nearly 4 years and this constantly annoys me. Basically we can't finish off the story and this frustration filters through to the reader on many occasions. Trust me on this one....I share your frustration but this situation will never change unfortunately.

The accuracy of our reports compared to other organisations - Well, all I can say is PCN is guilty of ommiting some detail from a story some times, but I am confident that the information we give on a story is accurate to the best of our abilities. We must be doing something right because we sell our stories to Channel 3, Channel 7, Channel 9(MCOT) and ITV along with printed media, Matishon and Daily News national newspapers, on a daily basis. All are major national Thai TV stations and national newspapers in Thai language. We also deal with Reuters and other International news organisations when a major story breaks. This is in no way a "guarantee" that every piece of information is accurate, but even the "Big Boys" get it wrong sometimes, that is the nature of the job and is partly due to the pressures on us to get a story released as soon as possible. Other local news organisations do not have such contacts and for this, I am proud of every member of staff who works for me for making PCN a truly international news organisation. (sorry if it sounds like I am trying to sell PCN to you, but I am saying what I really feel).

In conclusion, there are those that hate PCN and that is evident from comments made on forums such as TV, but, I accept criticism where it is due and will always defend my companies actions when I feel criticism is uncalled for in my opinion. That is the nature of the business and I accept that. If you ever feel that you need to contact me about any story or have a complaint or information which may contradict any story I cover please email me at: [email protected] and I will investigate and respond to your email if it requires an answer from me.

Oh, I nearly forgot Yarpy who said: "I'm assuming that everyone on here knows that Howard is also a Tourist Police Volunteer and all that entails?"

Yarpy, I have been a TPV for over 3 years and I still don't know what it fully entails!!! This subject is off-limits on Pattaya chat forums so all I will say to you is, if you want to find out what a TPV does, come and see me on Walking Street, I am there most nights from 9pm. I will be happy to speak with you. We will leave that particular subject there I think before this thread is closed!!!.

Hope that answers some questions!!

Howard

[yarpy]

WOW! Didn't know it was such a touchy topic. Is that stated somewhere? OK told won't mention it again.

[Scott]

My deepest sympathies to the family and friends. One of the problems in Thailand is that the police can't keep their mouth shut. It's very unprofessional of the police to do as much open speculation as they do. In the course of things, this gets reported as fact and peoples lives and reputations are further damaged.

I find it interesting that defamation is such a big issue in this country, but there is absolutely no problem in speculating on the misdeeds of a victim (especially a foreign victim) and how he somehow "deserved" what he got.

[TPE]

I find it interesting that defamation is such a big issue in this country, but there is absolutely no problem in speculating on the misdeeds of a victim (especially a foreign victim) and how he somehow "deserved" what he got.

Scott ;

Very true .... as is the fact that no matter where your TG comes from, one of her oft used phrases will be " Som Num Nar " - or if she delves into philosphical thought, it will be 'Wen Gum'

[chuchok]

Likewise I no longer spend much time on local forums - mainly as I returned to NZ several years ago, - I was getting to the stage where may well have copped a bullet also, or else cirrosis of the liver ! - actually I had a baby daughter who's wellbeing I put first, anyway, I do often get asked to comment in NZ on Asian affairs, having perhaps been the countries best known Investigator in S.E. Asia from the early 1990's to 2003, - my comment [ in todays Dominion Post] was that I very much doubted a mia noi would have the money or contacts, to arrange an obviously proffesional hit - we all know chonburi is the home of many gunmen - in my day a Hit on a farang was 100,000 bt, I doubt it has gone down ; we also know Thai [Police/govt] dont like bad news re tourist resorts lingering in the press for long, so like quick closures, - even if not always the correct one !

Allowing MilitiaX is correct in his facts, the 700,000bt does put a different light on things, and would seem to confirm the Girlfriends involvement - obviously the police will access her bank accounts, so that should confirm thing fairly quickly. Without doubt, somewhere along the line, major money will be involved for this to have happened, its not just a case of the girl, [ or other mia nois] having an extreme jealousy fit !

the original 'Thaiprivateeye.'

Did you or will you change the story in the Dom?

[MilitiaX]

I don't normally get involved in these threads but in this instance I will.

For those that don't know, I am Howard from PCN and when somebody who has only been a member of this board for minutes, comes on and says my report was crap, I feel I must respond.

MilitiaX, if you who you say you are, I am deeply sorry for the loss of your friend and to the family of Mr. Miller. This was a despicable act and I am glad that it has come to an apprently swift conclusion (even though the suspected shooter has not yet been caught yet). However, because you on this board using an anonymous username, I cannot be sure who you are. This is the nature of a chat forum and is one of the reasons why I don't normally get too involved in them, because most of the time you don't really know who you are speaking with.

I must begin by mentioning that the information contained in my reports on this murder are consistant with other news organisations. However, PCN is the only organisation that reproduces the stories on the internet as they happen, so many may not be aware of this. All our information is taken from actual Police reports and in an ongoing investigation, stories change and possible motives are suggested and sometimes discounted. In this case, it was claimed he had four wives. As I mentioned in the reports, no marraige certificates were present suggesting either "ceremonial marraiges" which are commonplace here in Thailand or Mr Miller may have called them his "Wives" in everyday conversations or the Police report may have been innacurate.

The so-called Court case was mentioned early on in the investigation and was once again taken from the Police Investigation reports. MilitiaX claims this to be untrue. Maybe this is the case or maybe he was unaware of any case taking place.

The allegations of Steroid traffiking were mentioned throughout the investigation and evidence of the steroids and how they would be packed for export was presented at the final press conference for everyone to see and according to the NZ Police he had a previous conviction for this. Once again this information was provided by the Thai Police. MilitiaX claims this to be untrue or maybe he is unaware of this taking place.

Whether Jintana is lying or not is up to the courts to decide and if she is convicted along with the other two men, I hope she rots in a dark, smelly prison cell for the rest of her life as I am sure we all hope.

I worked very closely with the New Zealand Police Unit attached to their Bangkok Embassy and provided them with pictures and information throughout the three days of investigation and helped with the initial identification of Mr Miller by providing a copy of his driving licence to the NZ Police.

I am not in the business of making stories up or even "sexing" stories up to get extra hits on my website or extra viewers on our TV show. There is sometimes too much inconsistency between the various organisations here in Pattaya and although sometimes, some information in our reports can be wrong, in the whole, we do get it right and I am proud of my journlaists who sometimes disagree with other local journalists on some aspects of stories because they know the information is not correct.

Moving on to other matters, Britmaveric reproduces my stories on the TV site with my blessing, however it angers me sometimes that some serious stories are often joked about by some who don't appreciate the seriousness of the case. I guess this is the nature of a chat forum. I ask you guys not to joke about death, serious injury or someones misfortune and don't judge them based on my report. That is not fair.

I think that's enough from me now. I don't come on this forum every day but will gladly answer any other questions this post may raise, but don't expect a speedy response.

Howard

Howard, sorry if I offended you with my comments about your report as that wasn't my intention. I understand your concerns about my post using an anonymous username, but I can assure you I am a close friend of Steves and know more about this case than what I have already mentioned. I just wish more effort was put into getting the real story instead of relying on the police reports, which were based on the stories that Jintana had told them. I'm not about about to criticise the police, because as far as I'm concerned they've got the person responsible for Steves murder.

In this case, it was claimed he had four wives. As I mentioned in the reports, no marraige certificates were present suggesting either "ceremonial marraiges" which are commonplace here in Thailand or Mr Miller may have called them his "Wives" in everyday conversations or the Police report may have been innacurate.

I can assure you that Steve has never had a ceremonial marriage to any of his thai girlfriends or ever called them "wifes" in everyday situation.

The so-called Court case was mentioned early on in the investigation and was once again taken from the Police Investigation reports. MilitiaX claims this to be untrue. Maybe this is the case or maybe he was unaware of any case taking place.

I still stand by my statement that there is/was no court case.

The allegations of Steroid traffiking were mentioned throughout the investigation and evidence of the steroids and how they would be packed for export was presented at the final press conference for everyone to see and according to the NZ Police he had a previous conviction for this. Once again this information was provided by the Thai Police. MilitiaX claims this to be untrue or maybe he is unaware of this taking place.

OK, what I said was that : His murder has no connection to steroid exportation. I'm aware of the parcel that was packed and ready to be sent, but lets be honest here - who cares about steroids. It's not like he was dealing in hard drugs like heroin, coke or X.

Anyone who knows anything about steroids knows that there is no money to be made in it and definitely not worth being murdered for.

I worked very closely with the New Zealand Police Unit attached to their Bangkok Embassy and provided them with pictures and information throughout the three days of investigation and helped with the initial identification of Mr Miller by providing a copy of his driving licence to the NZ Police.

While you may have worked with the NZ police unit and provided them with some photos or information, it was his boxing training partner and the person he was on his way to meet up with for breakfast who had to identify him shortly after the murder. Both he and another friend had to view the photos (that were not published) of Steve to confirm his identity for the police. It was also his friend who had to make the phone call to Steve's ex-wife and give her the shocking news.

One of the reasons why the police were able to catch Jintana, her boyfriend and friend so fast was because of information given to police by Steves friends and about their concerns about the money from the sale of the land, which they also knew had been transferred into Jintanas account so that they could get a loan and buy a house. They wanted to make sure that any of Steves assets here - including the money went to his family, instead of that whore taking it all.

It's a shame that Steve couldn't see her for what she really was, as many of his friends could see straight through her and didn't trust her. It wouldn't have done any of us any good to have tried and warn him that she couldn't be trusted because what guy in a relationship wants to believe those things about their girl.

Edited April 27, 2006 by MilitiaX

[thaiflyer1]

I'm aware of the parcel that was packed and ready to be sent, but lets be honest here - who cares about steroids. It's not like he was dealing in hard drugs like heroin, coke or X.

Anyone who knows anything about steroids knows that there is no money to be made in it and definitely not worth being murdered for.

Sorry but i dont quite understand the above statement............

Are steroids illegal in NZ? if they are and he was exporting then he has broke the law and obviously the law was there for a reason.

Also i would disagree that there is no money to be made , otherwise why do it?

End of the day he made one mistake he trusted a woman he hardly knew...................not worth getting murdered over but there you go.

Maybe a lesson learnt for the rest of us.

[hm1973]

MilitiaX,

Thanks for your honest and detailed response and as a friend of Mr Miller, I can only offer you my condolences on the loss of your friend.

Howard

[MilitiaX]

Are steroids illegal in NZ? if they are and he was exporting then he has broke the law and obviously the law was there for a reason.

Also i would disagree that there is no money to be made , otherwise why do it?

Neither of us can say where that parcel was destined for. For all we know, maybe it was going to some country that steroids are legal. A lot of sporting supplements are illegal in countries like NZ or Australia, but companies from the US from sell and send packages to them all the time. The worst that ever happens if these parcels get intercepted by customs is a slap on the wrist and a heavy fine. It definitely can't be compared to the "real drugs" that will get you death in some countries or locked up for a very long time.

In regards to the amount of money to be made on steroids - There profit to be made is very small and definitely not enough make you a millionaire. If it did, Steve could've lived a big fancy house and drive an expensive car - neither of which he did, nor did he have the funds too. Any money made was just enough to have him live comfortably by in a place he loved so much.

I'm just stating that he was not murdered with anything related to the steroids.

MilitiaX,

Thanks for your honest and detailed response and as a friend of Mr Miller, I can only offer you my condolences on the loss of your friend.

Howard

Thankyou and you're welcome.

[thaiflyer1]

Neither of us can say where that parcel was destined for. For all we know, maybe it was going to some country that steroids are legal. A lot of sporting supplements are illegal in countries like NZ or Australia, but companies from the US from sell and send packages to them all the time. The worst that ever happens if these parcels get intercepted by customs is a slap on the wrist and a heavy fine. It definitely can't be compared to the "real drugs" that will get you death in some countries or locked up for a very long time.

In regards to the amount of money to be made on steroids - There profit to be made is very small and definitely not enough make you a millionaire. If it did, Steve could've lived a big fancy house and drive an expensive car - neither of which he did, nor did he have the funds too. Any money made was just enough to have him live comfortably by in a place he loved so much.

As you have stated before if she had done a "runner" with his cash he would of put it down to bad judgement on his part..............no need to kill the guy to get it.

All in all a very sad case..............my condolences to both his friends and family.

[TPE]

Chuchok -

Hi Pal - re Dom Post, I provided some background, e.g. mentioned that Chonburi is a home of hitmen, that the going rate used to be 100,000bt for a farang - and that Thai women who are mia noi's, usuallu understand the rules, the would be upset at getting dumped, but not to the extent of arranging a proffessional hit. As it transpires, it seems it is more than a jealousy things, certainly money involved, perhaps ms Jentana said in jest to someone they could have half the 700,000 bt ? and it was taken seriously, who knows, again I can only agree with other posters, and offer my condolences to those involved, - over the years saw many Westerners ripped off by TGs, and more often than not be those who were not bar girls ... but any cases i dealt with where such 'hits' were involved, always related to politics, and/or vast amounts of money -

Miltia X - appreciate your insights.

regards.

[Maigo6]

perhaps ms Jentana said in jest to someone they could have half the 700,000 bt ? and it was taken seriously

Why would she have to give any of it to anyone, it was in her bank account. It's not like she had to steal it, she already had it.

[Pattaya_Fox]

perhaps ms Jentana said in jest to someone they could have half the 700,000 bt ? and it was taken seriously

Why would she have to give any of it to anyone, it was in her bank account. It's not like she had to steal it, she already had it.

Assuming that she did arrange the murder then she would have to pay the hitmen of course. They would not kill someone without payment.

[Maigo6]

perhaps ms Jentana said in jest to someone they could have half the 700,000 bt ? and it was taken seriously

Why would she have to give any of it to anyone, it was in her bank account. It's not like she had to steal it, she already had it.

Assuming that she did arrange the murder then she would have to pay the hitmen of course. They would not kill someone without payment.

My point is, she already had the 700,000 in her bank account, why would she have to do anything to anybody?

It's her bank account and she's the one with access to the money, she could have done what she wanted with the money without breaking any laws at all.

Strange.

[britmaveric]

Have to agree with Maigo - she had the dosh already. She could have quite easily told him to fk off and not alot he could have done about it. I think that would have been the better choice.

[Pattaya_Fox]

An extract from to-day`s Pattaya Mail.

...Jintana claimed the reason she arranged the killing was because her New Zealander husband forced her into a new habit forming substance, and said that he was forever beating her. She said that Miller had bought her a house valued at 700,000 baht , but he was a playboy and was cruel to her so she asked her ex-boyfriend Warathip to find a hitman to shoot him. After doing so they hid the .357 handgun in a safe at the Rainbow Apartment, in room number 515.

After questioning Police took Jintana to the apartment where they opened the safe and found the gun and six bullets. There were also two sets of clothing worn by the assassins.

[MilitiaX]

An extract from to-day`s Pattaya Mail.

...Jintana claimed the reason she arranged the killing was because her New Zealander husband forced her into a new habit forming substance, and said that he was forever beating her. She said that Miller had bought her a house valued at 700,000 baht , but he was a playboy and was cruel to her so she asked her ex-boyfriend Warathip to find a hitman to shoot him. After doing so they hid the .357 handgun in a safe at the Rainbow Apartment, in room number 515.

After questioning Police took Jintana to the apartment where they opened the safe and found the gun and six bullets. There were also two sets of clothing worn by the assassins.

We had to have a good laugh at that new bit of information that Jintana came up with. That girl is so desperate to save her ass, she's saying anything to lay blame on Steve.

Saying that he introduced her to a habit forming substance is just as laughable as her comments that he bet her up - It didn't and never would happen. I wonder what new claim she will come up with next?

[taxexile]

this now seems to be an open and shut case , they have the murderer , they have admissions of guilt from the wife and they have the weapon.

this case should come to court very soon , and the trial shouldnt last very long.

any chance of the pattaya mail , or pcn , actually finding out the verdicts and sentences and reporting them to their loyal readers ??

i think we should be told !

[Maejo Man]

Indeed she does seem to be clutching at straws, but there again a life sentence in a Thai jail is not really that appealing either.

Being a high profile case, I would expect to see a verdict and sentence in the Bangkok post, and/or the international press.

[MilitiaX]

Don't worry about the verdict, because I'll post it here as soon as we find out.

[Monkeypants]

Don't worry about the verdict, because I'll post it here as soon as we find out.

I too knew Steve and Gin, We went to koh chang together in November,

I can say that he was a great guy, who could speak fluent Thai, and a real gentleman,

I have recieved a few phone calls over the last week keeping me updated with the progress of Gin,

of which I cannot or will not post here, but it's looking like she was the one who ordered the killing, the gun as you rightly say was found , but prior to his kiling she had gone home to Udon Thani,

She actually phoned NZ to enquire about Steve , before the killing as it was ordered for the 19th, not the 20th. She went to udon to make it look that it had nothing to do with here.

If she is found to be guilty I hope the law comes into full force.

Steve was a genuine nice guy, I was due to see him in a few weeks, he will be dearly missed

[TPE]

Knowing Thais ... and the information on the thread [ very informative and appreciate those close to steve giving some thoughts ] - I would think maybe the Thai Boyfriend had a fair amount of influence. If he was one of the first, or a long time boyfriend - [ maybe they even had a child ? ] they can retain a very influencing role over the TG - especially if it seemed like he may be able to share in the financial benefits.

Can only reitterate condolances and the tragedy of the whole affair - It does pay to delve as much as possible into your TGs background, especially if/when large amounts of cash become involved.

[naka]

Knowing Thais ... and the information on the thread [ very informative and appreciate those close to steve giving some thoughts ] - I would think maybe the Thai Boyfriend had a fair amount of influence. If he was one of the first, or a long time boyfriend - [ maybe they even had a child ? ] they can retain a very influencing role over the TG - especially if it seemed like he may be able to share in the financial benefits.

Can only reitterate condolances and the tragedy of the whole affair - It does pay to delve as much as possible into your TGs background, especially if/when large amounts of cash become involved.

Large amounts of cash should NEVER become involved! This always seems to lead to tears.

Never let them know any of your financial details, keep it all in a safe deposit box.

Never take her to your bank.

Never buy a house/condo, always rent.

Never open a joint account. You can always transfer funds from your to her account.

Always tell them the source of your wealth is a pension/annuity or such

which dies when you do.

Always tell them, the new car you bought while she was out of town, is leased.

Always have a second Thai bank account with a small balance. This card and it's ATM receipts

are the only ones she is allowed to ever see.

Learn how to lie like an expert, even if it's not in your nature.

In other words, if you leave the scene, she ends up without a brass razoo!

Just my tuppenceworth, seen too much of this ... although seldom so serious.

Naka.

Edited April 30, 2006 by naka

[skippybangkok]

Naka,

Hear you, but does not seem to be a very good relationship if you need to lie through your teeth. If you have no trust in the one you marry or long term partner with, then, maybe should not be together to start off with.

In the other case..... if short term flusy, fully agreed.