The Law. Working or Volunteering in Thailand.

[JLCrab]

Just for the record, I have assisted several Thai students to obtain Thai government scholarships to study at such UK universities as Leeds, City University London, and London School of Economics where they obtained post-graduate degrees. So I get a bit ruffled when I hear about poor English skills of Thai students. BTW all the students I have assisted are totally blind.

[ubonjoe]

Thanks to all who posted.  I didn't know that all I have to do is marry a Thai and it will be legal for me to volunteer.

It takes a lot more than just getting married. You first must get an extension and then get a work permit.

[Iamemjay]

Have the headmaster talk with the local labour office, you will need forms from them anyway to apply for the work permit (even as a volunteer).

If you apply as volunteer, there will be no immigration involvement (other than maybe checking you have a wp). You stay in Thailand based on marriage.

It is not difficult, but needs a lot of paperwork

As volunteer you do not need a teaching license or waiver.

Sorry Mario2008, but this is not my experience at all.

Last year I did some (paid) work at the local school - that government initiative to get conversational English (native speakers) teachers in the schools. The school insisted I didn't need a permit because it was a government initiative. The Dept of Labour initially said I needed one but was then was convinced by the school that I didn't. Like the OP I didn't want to run foul of Immigration so I went and checked with them. They insisted that I DID have to have one, produced a list, with my name on it - provided to them by the Dept of Education, of the 50 farangs who had been engaged in our Amphur, with ticks against all but mine and one other's names. They told me quite clearly that if I and the other guy did not get a work permit they would "take action" against us.because we would be breaching our visas, He also said that this would also be the case if we did it on a voluntary basis - we would be working, and needed a work permit. They also telephoned the DoL official in Chiangmai and "put him straight".

[Mario2008]

Have the headmaster talk with the local labour office, you will need forms from them anyway to apply for the work permit (even as a volunteer).

If you apply as volunteer, there will be no immigration involvement (other than maybe checking you have a wp). You stay in Thailand based on marriage.

It is not difficult, but needs a lot of paperwork

As volunteer you do not need a teaching license or waiver.

Sorry Mario2008, but this is not my experience at all.

Last year I did some (paid) work at the local school - that government initiative to get conversational English (native speakers) teachers in the schools. The school insisted I didn't need a permit because it was a government initiative. The Dept of Labour initially said I needed one but was then was convinced by the school that I didn't. Like the OP I didn't want to run foul of Immigration so I went and checked with them. They insisted that I DID have to have one, produced a list, with my name on it - provided to them by the Dept of Education, of the 50 farangs who had been engaged in our Amphur, with ticks against all but mine and one other's names. They told me quite clearly that if I and the other guy did not get a work permit they would "take action" against us.because we would be breaching our visas, He also said that this would also be the case if we did it on a voluntary basis - we would be working, and needed a work permit. They also telephoned the DoL official in Chiangmai and "put him straight".

I suggest you read my post again. I state that you need a work permit to volunteer (Thai law is very clear about that). But you don't need a teaching license or waiver.

[rct99q]

I had a non-immigrant O visa based on married to a Thai (1 year multiple entry,, ie max 90 day stay at one time) and have had multiple extension on it based kn having a work permit.

In the OP's case you already have the extension so getting the work permit is no problem. If you need to have your wife go to the labor office and they will provide a list of documents needed to get the work permit. Take this to the school officer and ask them if they can supply them. Not saying it is easy but the process is very straight forward and in no way affects your extension of stay.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

I do this all the time. Sadly no change yet. I'd love to teach again and am thinking about renting out my place in Thailand and going to Cambodia. Less hassle than working down the road in Thailand.

If I did work in Thailand and something happened with the job, I would have to leave the country in seven days. That means my boss could blackmail me into working long hours or whatever else he wanted. No thanks.

I'm very well-qualified and have come here on my own dime. I'd rather work in a place that has some appreciation of this than one that threatens me with imprisonment for volunteering. I'm living in one of the few countries that won't allow me to tutor private students. That might change, and I don't mean the law.

Thai officials can't understand why their nationals have such poor English skills compared to just about everyone else. Maybe they'll wake up in 2015. Ironically, this whole system was conceived to protect Thai jobs. When the economy opens up under ASEAN, the best jobs will go to people who speak the best English--anyone but Thais.

Very well put. Everyone understands the purpose of the WP regs. but often the overly strict implementation of them deprives Thais of useful volunteer services many retired or non-retired expatriates could provide.

I guess that's why I see and meet more and more ENGLISH speaking Filipinos working in Thailand every day.

[bubbob]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

I do this all the time. Sadly no change yet. I'd love to teach again and am thinking about renting out my place in Thailand and going to Cambodia. Less hassle than working down the road in Thailand.

If I did work in Thailand and something happened with the job, I would have to leave the country in seven days. That means my boss could blackmail me into working long hours or whatever else he wanted. No thanks.

I'm very well-qualified and have come here on my own dime. I'd rather work in a place that has some appreciation of this than one that threatens me with imprisonment for volunteering. I'm living in one of the few countries that won't allow me to tutor private students. That might change, and I don't mean the law.

Thai officials can't understand why their nationals have such poor English skills compared to just about everyone else. Maybe they'll wake up in 2015. Ironically, this whole system was conceived to protect Thai jobs. When the economy opens up under ASEAN, the best jobs will go to people who speak the best English--anyone but Thais.

Very well put. Everyone understands the purpose of the WP regs. but often the overly strict implementation of them deprives Thais of useful volunteer services many retired or non-retired expatriates could provide.

I guess that's why I see and meet more and more ENGLISH speaking Filipinos working in Thailand every day.

Similarly, I too am encountering more Filipinos teaching English. The downside is that not one of them have work permits, but are more than willing to take the risk.

Up to them, I say. I never would though.

[Iamemjay]

OK. My apologies - it WAS a misread.

I suggest you read my post again. I state that you need a work permit to volunteer (Thai law is very clear about that). But you don't need a teaching license or waiver.

Sorry Mario2008, but this is not my experience at all.

Have the headmaster talk with the local labour office, you will need forms from them anyway to apply for the work permit (even as a volunteer).

If you apply as volunteer, there will be no immigration involvement (other than maybe checking you have a wp). You stay in Thailand based on marriage.

It is not difficult, but needs a lot of paperwork

As volunteer you do not need a teaching license or waiver.

Last year I did some (paid) work at the local school - that government initiative to get conversational English (native speakers) teachers in the schools. The school insisted I didn't need a permit because it was a government initiative. The Dept of Labour initially said I needed one but was then was convinced by the school that I didn't. Like the OP I didn't want to run foul of Immigration so I went and checked with them. They insisted that I DID have to have one, produced a list, with my name on it - provided to them by the Dept of Education, of the 50 farangs who had been engaged in our Amphur, with ticks against all but mine and one other's names. They told me quite clearly that if I and the other guy did not get a work permit they would "take action" against us.because we would be breaching our visas, He also said that this would also be the case if we did it on a voluntary basis - we would be working, and needed a work permit. They also telephoned the DoL official in Chiangmai and "put him straight".

[jpinx]

Thanks to all who posted. I didn't know that all I have to do is marry a Thai and it will be legal for me to volunteer.

Apparently everything depends on the local Labour office, but there are cases (according to ubonjoe) of people with retirement extensions getting a WP and doing voluntary work. No wife needed

[Rorri]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It's not only volunteer work, two guys on Phuket where recently charged for building their OWN boat, in their OWN yard...beware people, according to the law you can't even do your own painting gardening etc.

[Sceptict11]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It's not only volunteer work, two guys on Phuket where recently charged for building their OWN boat, in their OWN yard...beware people, according to the law you can't even do your own painting gardening etc.

Bit bigger than a "boat" perhaps !

[Rorri]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It's not only volunteer work, two guys on Phuket where recently charged for building their OWN boat, in their OWN yard...beware people, according to the law you can't even do your own painting gardening etc.

Bit bigger than a "boat" perhaps !

Same same but different, it certainly isn't a ship, but hey, who cares, I wasn't actually commenting on the size of the thing... maybe size is more important to you.

[jpinx]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It's not only volunteer work, two guys on Phuket where recently charged for building their OWN boat, in their OWN yard...beware people, according to the law you can't even do your own painting gardening etc.

Bit bigger than a "boat" perhaps !

Same same but different, it certainly isn't a ship, but hey, who cares, I wasn't actually commenting on the size of the thing... maybe size is more important to you.

It has been commented on before, but these boats are probably going to be sold after a short period of use by the builder. Buy a bike, paint it and sell it at a profit -- you are working,,,,,,

[OMGImInPattaya]

I would let them get stuffed. Tell the school master Thailand doesn't allow foreigners to do even unpaid volunteer (I known, oxymoron) work w/o allot of hassle and that he should complain to his elected officials about it and if the law was ever changed, you would be happy to help him out.

It's not only volunteer work, two guys on Phuket where recently charged for building their OWN boat, in their OWN yard...beware people, according to the law you can't even do your own painting gardening etc.

Yep very true. When I was preparing to paint my house in Pattaya, I was advised to hire Thais to do the outside but that it was fine for me to do the inside. Guess which one looks great and which looks like it was done by a troupe of blind monkeys?

[Mario2008]

The persons in Phuket have been arrested, not sentenced yet. It will be interesting to see if it ever comes to a trail and if so what the ruling of the judge will be and based on what.

I doubt they will be found guilty if they build their own boat.

[Saradoc1972]

The law governing aliens working in Thailand would be Alien Working Act, B.E.2551 (2008): please google this.

Be aware though, that the "law" will not be of any use. Article 5 clearly states:

"Working" means a working by physical strength or knowledge whether or not intended for wages or any other benefits

This is obviously circular and a bit unhelpful. Working is working.

I've just researched an article on chiangmainews.com about those musicians napped for jamming in Blues bars.

So when is 'work' officially considered as employment? Ruchuchai [the local chief of police leading the raids] answered, "If you work at home it's none of my business, gardening, sweeping, painting, it's all fine. It's when you perform activities which help someone (or yourself) earn an income, that is not OK." If you were to make furniture at home and gave a set to a restaurant owner friend, that wouldn't be a problem," when asked if one were to make 10 sets for a restaurant, Ruchuchai responded with an ambivalent, "ah..." which I can only assume that means 'not OK'

Boils down to the usual lawyer's work in determining "how long is a piece of string ?".

With your well-educated and adequately paid Thai official it may be more like "if you only got a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail." They don't know for themselves, have no legal background to establish binding guidelines over time, so you can run unlucky. And once in the mill, I doubt you can work things out short paying a fine and having to leave the country.

With what I read, like those international aides almost being napped for voluntary clearing work after the tsunami in 2004, I would advise against volunteering. Might be to risky.

[manarak]

Head of Immigration says No Problem

Get a signed letter from immigration authorizing you to do it. Problem solved.

[alanferdi]

What does the school want? Primarily leading English conversation with the students together with learning about life outside of the village; to open their eyes and broaden their horizons. Off-site arrangements would be wholly innappropriate, and would in any case be classed as working without a WP.

Thai education... Needs redefining!!! Learning brings change and change brings the need for more training and education.... The present Govt. prefers the rural stays rural and education a box of trade tricks. Do not disturb this hornets nest. I know of people in Pattaya, who were arrested for raising funds through a charity organization that was going to the poor! .... There is no logic, and those who like the school teacher cannot understand his own country's attitude on this!

[alanferdi]

Head of Immigration says No Problem

Get a signed letter from immigration authorizing you to do it. Problem solved.

Wow... Is it that easy? Their are requirements of the Thai education ministry, then there is the legal frame work, check with a lawyer at the ministry of trade and commerce, they will give you the road map an the introduction to requirements, of both the education ministry and the ministry of immigration. Even that brought us down to a polite no.... You have to get a work permit and have your certificates to be approved by the requirements of the ministry of education.

[JLCrab]

My suggestion to the OP (boats aside) is that, before you would have the school go through the WP process, spend a week or so at the school as a try-out and make sure that is what you really want to do.

[TomTao]

I was asked to do some part time teaching at a school in my area, I explained to the teacher who was asking me to teach that I cannot teach without a work permit in Thailand, can't even volunteer without one, I told her that if the school wanted me to teach they would have to get me a work permit, she said she would ask about it. A few days later she came back and said she spoke to the Education Ministry and asked who she needs to speak to about getting a work permit for a foreigner to teach part time, the ministries response was 'part time teachers don't need a work permit', there is no inter ministry communication at all in this country.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jpinx]

I was asked to do some part time teaching at a school in my area, I explained to the teacher who was asking me to teach that I cannot teach without a work permit in Thailand, can't even volunteer without one, I told her that if the school wanted me to teach they would have to get me a work permit, she said she would ask about it. A few days later she came back and said she spoke to the Education Ministry and asked who she needs to speak to about getting a work permit for a foreigner to teach part time, the ministries response was 'part time teachers don't need a work permit', there is no inter ministry communication at all in this country.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You need to refer your friend to the labour office it seems

[RubbaJohnny]

I would advise against.

What insurance would you have against malicious allegations

Even paid staff are at risk.

I addition you will find yourself entangled in an endless series of obligations and demands on your time.

I know as local immigration wanted free lessons.

I pointed out to them this contravened my visa.

His wife then tried to seduce me with fruit.

If you wish to help local kids/school a donation is fine while plenty of projects in e.g.Myanmar will welcome support.

Finally I may add that it is unimaginable that unvetted individuals without degrees or formal experience would get beyond the school gate.I am not saying this correct just simply the law in developed places.

[Leung Falang]

We are friends with a Thai/Farang couple that volunteer often in schools as requested by the English teachers and their directors. In this part of Isaan, there has never been any issue about WP. As stated, there are many Filipinos hired by the state to teach along with an occasional Indian or African who do have WP as a general rule.

We know another Thai/Farang couple who volunteer to a NGO full time. It does look like work. The Farang has a marriage visa and does have a WP so he can legally volunteer. They receive funds from friends in and out of Thailand in order to live.

[TomTao]

I was asked to do some part time teaching at a school in my area, I explained to the teacher who was asking me to teach that I cannot teach without a work permit in Thailand, can't even volunteer without one, I told her that if the school wanted me to teach they would have to get me a work permit, she said she would ask about it. A few days later she came back and said she spoke to the Education Ministry and asked who she needs to speak to about getting a work permit for a foreigner to teach part time, the ministries response was 'part time teachers don't need a work permit', there is no inter ministry communication at all in this country.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You need to refer your friend to the labour office it seems

Tried that, the reply was "Education ministry say it ok, no problem, no worry."

[jpinx]

I was asked to do some part time teaching at a school in my area, I explained to the teacher who was asking me to teach that I cannot teach without a work permit in Thailand, can't even volunteer without one, I told her that if the school wanted me to teach they would have to get me a work permit, she said she would ask about it. A few days later she came back and said she spoke to the Education Ministry and asked who she needs to speak to about getting a work permit for a foreigner to teach part time, the ministries response was 'part time teachers don't need a work permit', there is no inter ministry communication at all in this country.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You need to refer your friend to the labour office it seems

Tried that, the reply was "Education ministry say it ok, no problem, no worry."

............ which probably supports the view that every labour office applies the rules differently. I'd be very wary in case someone other than your local labour office come checking up.....

[Sceptict11]

I recently changed the front wheel bearings on my ancient Jeep.

The only Thai "interference" I suffered was from a Thai gent offering me the loan of a car whilst mine was incapacitated !

[timewilltell]

Well the whole point of this is either go through all the hoops and hope you have jumped them all at the risk of being deported or just avoid helping anyone.

I am afraid to say that the ludicrous xenophobia here makes it difficult for people from a more giving society or more giving disposition if you like, to do anything to help anyone.

I think the Thai really have an issue where:

They think they are educated - but the level is much worse than they think they are comparing to;

They think they understand democracy - but they have no understanding of the principles beyond the obvious;

They think that they can keep the poor poor for ever and therefore buy their vote for a pittance;

They think they have nothing to learn from foreigners when they everything to gain and little to lose ( foreigners can learn from Thais too though);

Thy are so stuck up with their face, they miss the true reality of things and make themselves ridiculous but just cannot see it.

Until they change their laws to be more transparent instead of an excuse for every scumbag to extort you for pretty much anything you do, my suggestion would be to keep your head as low as possible. You only need upset one person even unintentionally for the full force of the law to descend on you,if it is the wrong person you upset.

Why take the risk?

[Sceptict11]

timewilltell

When I read some of the comments posted here I really begin to wonder if I live in the same Thailand as others !

Having lived here, happily married to a Thai for many years am I unique?

Or is it just the jaundiced views of some TV members that make me believe I must be a very fortunate "Farang" ?

edit

punctuation

Edited September 21, 2013 by Sceptict11

[ubonjoe]

timewilltell

 

When I read some of the comments posted here I really begin to wonder if  I live in the same Thailand as others !

 

Having lived here, happily married to a Thai for many years I am I unique or is it just the jaundiced views of some TV members that make me believe I must be a very fortunate "Farang" ?

Same here.