Claiming child benefit and child tax credit - UK ? help pls

[kunash]

Hi

I have just spoken to the UKBA help line

I am a uk citizen, married to a Thai, with 2 Thai step children.

I have been claiming child benefit for my 2 step children. I claim this in my own name.

I am also claiming child tax. This is in joint names, but as my wife isn't working she puts zero.

my wife and 2 step children cannot have recourse to public funds.

I can as a uk citizen. that is what I was led to believe from reading this site.

the lady at ukba tells me as the 2 step children have no recourse I cannot claim on their behalf.

what is right here?

I am a bit confused

if I cannot claim, then maybe I should pay it all back???

I don't want to harm any iLR application

[kunash]

this is from 2011

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/511517-claiming-uk-tax-credits-and-child-benefit/

[bobrussell]

I was able to claim child benefit for my step-daughter until they removed it for those earning over a certain limit. It is not up to the UK V&I to decide, it is the Dept of Work & Pensions.

Presumably you sent the birth certificate etc to Newcastle so they would have decided whether you qualified or not. Your non-EU partner is not entitled to anything but you are!

Cannot advise on Child Tax Credits as have never claimed them but if you are honest when you fill in the form it will be assessed under the rules and a decision made.

Reading other posts it suggests you may be eligible Child Tax credits but I am sure someone with far more knowledge will answer your question!

[kunash]

I was able to claim child benefit for my step-daughter until they removed it for those earning over a certain limit. It is not up to the UK V&I to decide, it is the Dept of Work & Pensions.

Presumably you sent the birth certificate etc to Newcastle so they would have decided whether you qualified or not. Your non-EU partner is not entitled to anything but you are!

Cannot advise on Child Tax Credits as have never claimed them but if you are honest when you fill in the form it will be assessed under the rules and a decision made.

Reading other posts it suggests you may be eligible Child Tax credits but I am sure someone with far more knowledge will answer your question!

ok thanks

I just don't understand why the UKBA would tell me that.

I just phoned the child benefit office, and they tell me I can claim, so I am just going to give ukba a ring again

[kunash]

ok. just spoken to the ukba again. they said that I cannot claim child benefit for my 2 step children. and it can affect my application. it would be up to the case worker at the time of the iLR application. I explained that I phoned the child benefit office who told me I can claim, but the ukba still said I cannot claim

I am so confused now.

[bobrussell]

You can claim if the Dept of Work and Pensions say you can.

See:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/while-in-uk/rightsandresponsibilities/publicfunds/

It states:

However, there are exceptions for some benefits and if you are in any doubt, you should contact the department or agency that issues it. This will often be the Department for Work and Pensions or HM Revenue & Customs.

The applicant is not claiming benefit. The spouse is! As long as it is not in the name of the ILR applicant it should not cause problems. It did not with us!

It is suggested on the DWP website that you contact the helpline:

http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/contactus/view.page?record=TC_tM5uswa0

If they say it is OK get it confirmed in writing!

[steady]

Why are you involving the UKBA in a DWP process? It's nothing to do with the UKBA. As bobrussell says, if you apply truthfully the decision will be made. My understanding of the situation - which is only as a layman - is that you probably should be eligible for child benefit. I don't know about child tax credits but tend to think that if you get child benefit then CTC would follow if your income is low enough.

[bobrussell]

The rules (as written UKBA guidance) are very clear. The person on temporary leave cannot claim benefits. What they are not telling you is that the applicant's spouse is entitled to claim!

By law the Child Tax Credits system is based around joint household income therefore both partners must declare their incomes. It is a requirement that the claim is in joint names!

For safety's sake contact the DWP and take their advice. They administer the schemes, not the UKBA.

[denby45]

I don't know anything about the subject really but perhaps you need to adopt, thats if you haven't already.

From HM Revenue and Customs

You're going to adopt a child

If you're in the process of adopting a child, it is important to apply for Child Benefit as soon as the child comes to live with you. You don't need to wait until the adoption process is complete, and in some circumstances you may be entitled to claim Child Benefit for a period before the adoption. The nationality of the child does not affect whether you're entitled to Child Benefit or not.

Den

[7by7]

Once again, the UKBA's (now UKV&I) so called help line has shown itself to be un helpful!

Your wife cannot claim child benefit as she is still subject to immigration control, but you can; even though the children concerned are your step children.

Your wife cannot claim tax credits on her own until she is no longer subject to immigration controls; i.e. has ILR.

However, HMRC rules say that a husband and wife must claim tax credits jointly. So not opnly can she be included in your claim; she must be!

From page 19 of this Home Office document on public funds.

A person subject to immigration control is not considered as accessing public funds if it is their partner who is receiving the funds they are entitled to.

Child and working tax credits are claimed jointly by couples. If only one member of a couple is subject to immigration control, then for tax credits purposes, neither are treated as being subject to immigration control.

[kunash]

thanks for the link 7. that mentions child tax credits. that is good info

is there anything like that which talks about child benefit.?

I couldn't see anything

I am now on the phone to DWP - child tax credits.

they said I cannot claim. the children are not entitled to public funds.

I quoted the reference you gave.

he said, as the children have no recourse to public funds I cannot claim zzZZzzZzz

''neither are treated as being subject to immigration control.''

his way of thinking maybe, that the children are still subject to immigration and have no recourse to public funds. and so you still cannot claim

I am getting frustrated now

but going back to my original request, is there anything like that which talks about child benefit.? please

Edited September 24, 2013 by kunash

[7by7]

The leaflet I linked to only says that someone subject to immigration control cannot claim child benefit.

But it also says that their partner who is not subject to immigration control can claim any and all benefits to which they are entitled.

HMRC deal with child benefit, not the DWP. Their guidance notes and the form itself only ask about the immigration status of the person claiming, not the children themselves. I claimed for my step daughter before she and her mother had ILR without any trouble; but that was over 10 years ago.

Maybe phone the child benefit helpline: 0300 200 3100

[kunash]

The leaflet I linked to only says that someone subject to immigration control cannot claim child benefit.

But it also says that their partner who is not subject to immigration control can claim any and all benefits to which they are entitled.

HMRC deal with child benefit, not the DWP. Their guidance notes and the form itself only ask about the immigration status of the person claiming, not the children themselves. I claimed for my step daughter before she and her mother had ILR without any trouble; but that was over 10 years ago.

Maybe phone the child benefit helpline: 0300 200 3100

thanks for link. both dwp and hmrc say I cannot claim ( though 1 man at the HMRC said I could ).

I hope everything will be ok when I apply for ilr. only 2 weeks to go now

[steady]

I claimed child benefit for my niece last year and as 7by7 rightly says the calculation is done on the claimant i.e. me. Niece did not have ILR at the time. I was also paid child tax credits at the same time - again my wife and niece did not have ILR at the time of applying. I just put down all of my wife's details and got the CTC awarded on my income. I found the whole process straightforward but I didn't ask for advice. I just applied and assumed that if I was not eligible the government would tell me.

[kunash]

I claimed child benefit for my niece last year and as 7by7 rightly says the calculation is done on the claimant i.e. me. Niece did not have ILR at the time. I was also paid child tax credits at the same time - again my wife and niece did not have ILR at the time of applying. I just put down all of my wife's details and got the CTC awarded on my income. I found the whole process straightforward but I didn't ask for advice. I just applied and assumed that if I was not eligible the government would tell me.

I agree, though the man at DWP said that it is up to me to make sure the child I can claim for is eligible to receive public funds. when I send in all the paperwork to apply for tax credit it is not up to them to check the visa stamp. I quoted him what '7by7' said and he said but the children still don't have recourse. maybe he wasn't sure of what he was talking about.

but then I just pray that the person I see in 2 weeks for the ilr visa is not the same person as I spoke to on the phone ( ie I hope they are a bit more clued up )

[bobrussell]

Strange how the advice differs!

7by7's link: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/modernised/cross-cut/public-funds/funds.pdf?view=Binary

bottom of page 49 clearly states:

If the sponsor needs to claim more public funds to support the applicant but these are funds

the sponsor and dependant would be jointly entitled to you must not refuse the application.

For example, if the increased funds fall under the tax credits regulations, such as Working or

Child Tax Credits, then you must not regard the applicant as having accessed public funds.

Seems pretty clear to me!

Take a copy of the document in with you. It is pretty clear cut. I suspect the people you deal with will be a lot more clued up than those you speak to on the phone. Perhaps better not to raise the issue unless they do!

Your partner has not claimed, you have!

Edited September 24, 2013 by bobrussell

[Waterloo]

On a related issue I think it is worth mentioning Child Benefit credits.

When our first child was born here in the UK the wife was at the time on FLR so like many others I applied for child benefit in my name although it was paid direct to the wifes bank account.

A few months after she received ILR I transfered the child benefit into her name so that whilst she is not working she gets the NI contributions towards her state pension, as I am in full time employement I do not need them.

Furthermore I was advised that I could have the Child Benefit Credits accrued under my name transfered to her account as I had been in full time employement for the whole duration.

At the time I called both HMRC & DWP & as you would expect, got conflicting advise from both organisations.

The offical advise on the website was not clear cut either.

So regardless I filled in the form CF411A & attached a covering letter being completely honest regarding the dates for both FLR & ILR.

In the end they transfered the full entitlement dated from the 7th November 2010 when our boy was born to my wifes account & not from the 5th February 2013 when she received ILR.

So now she has full NI contributions dated back to the 7th November 2010 & until either she starts to work or the youngest reaches 13.

[kunash]

On a related issue I think it is worth mentioning Child Benefit credits.

When our first child was born here in the UK the wife was at the time on FLR so like many others I applied for child benefit in my name although it was paid direct to the wifes bank account.

A few months after she received ILR I transfered the child benefit into her name so that whilst she is not working she gets the NI contributions towards her state pension, as I am in full time employement I do not need them.

Furthermore I was advised that I could have the Child Benefit Credits accrued under my name transfered to her account as I had been in full time employement for the whole duration.

At the time I called both HMRC & DWP & as you would expect, got conflicting advise from both organisations.

The offical advise on the website was not clear cut either.

So regardless I filled in the form CF411A & attached a covering letter being completely honest regarding the dates for both FLR & ILR.

In the end they transfered the full entitlement dated from the 7th November 2010 when our boy was born to my wifes account & not from the 5th February 2013 when she received ILR.

So now she has full NI contributions dated back to the 7th November 2010 & until either she starts to work or the youngest reaches 13.

That is good to hear Waterloo. I get frustrated that the government departments are not singing from the same hymm sheet.

I don't understand how a case worker looking at your iLR application has different guidance notes to a help line worker at the UKBA

I am applying for iLR in about a week, using the premium service. I will just supply them the information they need. But, I will write a covering letter maybe that I will only give them if necessary

[Waterloo]

On a related issue I think it is worth mentioning Child Benefit credits.

When our first child was born here in the UK the wife was at the time on FLR so like many others I applied for child benefit in my name although it was paid direct to the wifes bank account.

A few months after she received ILR I transfered the child benefit into her name so that whilst she is not working she gets the NI contributions towards her state pension, as I am in full time employement I do not need them.

Furthermore I was advised that I could have the Child Benefit Credits accrued under my name transfered to her account as I had been in full time employement for the whole duration.

At the time I called both HMRC & DWP & as you would expect, got conflicting advise from both organisations.

The offical advise on the website was not clear cut either.

So regardless I filled in the form CF411A & attached a covering letter being completely honest regarding the dates for both FLR & ILR.

In the end they transfered the full entitlement dated from the 7th November 2010 when our boy was born to my wifes account & not from the 5th February 2013 when she received ILR.

So now she has full NI contributions dated back to the 7th November 2010 & until either she starts to work or the youngest reaches 13.

That is good to hear Waterloo. I get frustrated that the government departments are not singing from the same hymm sheet.

I don't understand how a case worker looking at your iLR application has different guidance notes to a help line worker at the UKBA

I am applying for iLR in about a week, using the premium service. I will just supply them the information they need. But, I will write a covering letter maybe that I will only give them if necessary

Personally I think the premium service is a waste of money, I would save my money & use it to cover the cost of citizenship.

The checking service however now with hindsight I wish I had used, worth every penny just to get your documents back on the spot.

[kunash]

I have now read the home office guidance notes again on claiming public funds, and am now confident. even if my wife was claiming public funds, that would not be grounds to refuse a visa, if she can support herself.

I remember what the man at DWP told me. He said that if you have been claiming, your wife's visa will be refused. after everything is done and dusted I will give these departments a ring, the ones that told me I cannot claim, and tell them what is what, in no uncertain terms. it makes me angry they say such things