Overcrowded classrooms in Isaan affecting education, report shows

[webfact]

Overcrowded classrooms in Northeast affecting education, report shows
SUPINDA NA MAHACHAI
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Classrooms in the Northeast are seriously overcrowded, thus affecting the quality of education, a survey carried out by Mahasarakham University has found.

Education faculty dean Dr Prawit Erawan said yesterday that a recent survey of 300 schools in the Northeast found that the Education Ministry's policy of increasing student numbers per classroom affected the quality of lessons, leaving both students and teachers stressed out.

A report based on the survey, which urges the ministry to limit the number of students per classroom to no more than 35, says some large schools were found to have 50 students per classroom.

Teachers interviewed for the study said that the large number of students in their classes meant they were unable to arrange proper learning activities beyond lecturing. Teachers also suggested the appropriate number should be no more than 35 students per classroom.

An analysis of the report, Prawit said, showed that the class-size policy could lead to problems with patronage through student placement. He cited a number of large schools with as many as 3,000 to 6,000 students, and compared them with mid-sized and small schools, which lacked adequate numbers of students, because most parents aimed to get their children into larger schools.

As the Education Ministry provided a per-head subsidy, this was also leading to bigger schools receiving a larger share of the educational budget, which could in time widen the educational gap.

Prawit urged the ministry to keep student numbers at no more than 35 per classroom, so that large schools would not "hoard" students. He said this would reduce the problem of patronage and result in more effective educational management.


-- The Nation 2013-09-27

[gosompoi]

no more than 30!

[Puyai]

Although that is still a lot of kids (30 per class) I agree with you totally. MEP grade 1 class at my school now has 40 students. Far too many kids in a small classroom, but unfortunately it's not about education, it's about money...

[pacovl46]

St. Marie's school has definitely over 50 students per class. There's about 60 centimeters space in front of the blackboard and a 50 centimeter "aisle" down the middle to walk. The rest is desks and chairs! It's ridiculous!

[pacovl46]

Although that is still a lot of kids (30 per class) I agree with you totally. MEP grade 1 class at my school now has 40 students. Far too many kids in a small classroom, but unfortunately it's not about education, it's about money...

Yep, most of the private schools are businesses and all they care about is the omnipotent god which of course is money!

[kirstymelb101]

This is a great idea. But I believe this action will never take affect. School directors are greedy, and will accept any student who pays tuition.

[diggledunc]

I agree reducing the numbers must be better but what about all the other things that matter. This is what goes on in my immediate area which is very rural:-

-continual closures for teacher's meetings

-teachers not actually teaching because they go out for a smoke or drink or at worst just go to sleep in the classroom

-what about discipline amongst teachers, working well and setting an example and sanctions if they don't

-teachers being able to pay subordinates to take their classes while they have a day off and still draw their salaries

-closures for maintenance done in school terms rather than holidays

-so many days of non-educational activity ie a week lost for Children's day while they practice silly dances the young ones can't do

-schools closed for non-school sporting events

-impossible to give a zero mark for children even if they never attend, oh just go and clear some weeds and we will give you a one marking so you can move on.

-loosing students because the school can't teach English and will not spend money they have to employ some help - wonder where the money goes

I could go on but seems to me a lot of the problem in rural areas comes from a lack of control and this continual problem of saving face. How can it be that if a student is unruly, doesn't attend, takes yaba at school if the school say something it is them who are in the wrong and look bad not the badly behaved pupil.

[gosompoi]

Although that is still a lot of kids (30 per class) I agree with you totally. MEP grade 1 class at my school now has 40 students. Far too many kids in a small classroom, but unfortunately it's not about education, it's about money...

I think the best for the children would be 24 students to a class but after a class size of 30 students then the behavior and learning are sacrificed.

[gosompoi]

I agree reducing the numbers must be better but what about all the other things that matter. This is what goes on in my immediate area which is very rural:-

-continual closures for teacher's meetings

-teachers not actually teaching because they go out for a smoke or drink or at worst just go to sleep in the classroom

-what about discipline amongst teachers, working well and setting an example and sanctions if they don't

-teachers being able to pay subordinates to take their classes while they have a day off and still draw their salaries

-closures for maintenance done in school terms rather than holidays

-so many days of non-educational activity ie a week lost for Children's day while they practice silly dances the young ones can't do

-schools closed for non-school sporting events

-impossible to give a zero mark for children even if they never attend, oh just go and clear some weeds and we will give you a one marking so you can move on.

-loosing students because the school can't teach English and will not spend money they have to employ some help - wonder where the money goes

I could go on but seems to me a lot of the problem in rural areas comes from a lack of control and this continual problem of saving face. How can it be that if a student is unruly, doesn't attend, takes yaba at school if the school say something it is them who are in the wrong and look bad not the badly behaved pupil.

Yup, How about a master plan with lesson plans examples for each lesson to standardise learning, students only school activity is lessons and teachers only teach. No committees, contests, special projects or special events. Standardized start and stop dates for terms, holidays and school years. The Kings prize inspection is almost the largest budget event for my school. More than books for a year!

[cup-O-coffee]

It doesn't matter were it one (1) student per class.

Don't you idiots (Edit: not the posters, LOL) get it? It's the money, Stupid! Whoever said anything about education?

Hoard those suckers and break any laws of education principles in a heated, mad, passionate stampede to rake in the enrollment fees.

The root of the problem is you have too many greedy bastards in your country (and I am not simply describing the wealthy) who will see you in Hell before they even think about pulling their noses out of the ass end of a money opportunity. Sniff sniff... Mmmmmm. moooooney! Gooooold!

From bottom to top and top to bottom, the Thais are the problem. It is so intricate and convoluted in every imagineable way that worrying about "too many students in a classroom" makes one want to vomit.

Aw c'mon! This is another futile, atrocious and ridiculous article on the unimagineably idiotic Thai "Crowd Control" System and the morons who want ot trick you into believing it has anything remotely to do with education, knowledge and practice.

Education, my ass! That is how I honestly feel about these repetitive regurgitations on the same thing described above.

Flame out!

Edited September 27, 2013 by cup-O-coffee

[Considered Opinion]

I agree reducing the numbers must be better but what about all the other things that matter. This is what goes on in my immediate area which is very rural:-

-continual closures for teacher's meetings

-teachers not actually teaching because they go out for a smoke or drink or at worst just go to sleep in the classroom

-what about discipline amongst teachers, working well and setting an example and sanctions if they don't

-teachers being able to pay subordinates to take their classes while they have a day off and still draw their salaries

-closures for maintenance done in school terms rather than holidays

-so many days of non-educational activity ie a week lost for Children's day while they practice silly dances the young ones can't do

-schools closed for non-school sporting events

-impossible to give a zero mark for children even if they never attend, oh just go and clear some weeds and we will give you a one marking so you can move on.

-loosing students because the school can't teach English and will not spend money they have to employ some help - wonder where the money goes

I could go on but seems to me a lot of the problem in rural areas comes from a lack of control and this continual problem of saving face. How can it be that if a student is unruly, doesn't attend, takes yaba at school if the school say something it is them who are in the wrong and look bad not the badly behaved pupil.

Yup, How about a master plan with lesson plans examples for each lesson to standardise learning, students only school activity is lessons and teachers only teach. No committees, contests, special projects or special events. Standardized start and stop dates for terms, holidays and school years. The Kings prize inspection is almost the largest budget event for my school. More than books for a year!

Without wanting to seem churlish but "planning" and "Thai education" appear to be mutually exclusive. Bordering on an oxymoron.

[Wavefloater]

Where common sense should tell the "educators" that very large class sizes don't allow for an environment where the students can get the help and attention they need to learn, here another report (to ignore) is required. Just another example of the superficiality of this culture. As long as somebody is sounding official about education problems, that's good enough and nothing has to be really done.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Wavefloater

[Briggsy]

What kind of class size do the children of the ambitious Bangkok middle-class study in nowadays?

I would suggest it is not markedly different.

It is not so helpful to just pick this one factor and blame it for the lack of success from those schools. It certainly has an effect but there are greater factors at play. First and foremost, the lack of any intellectual curiosity, academic rigour or model of academic achievement in the whole of the child's environment. This environment includes school, home, family and village.

[tingtong]

i dont mind that education is about money here, and schools run as a business...what isnt about money here, in Thailand?

but if it is a business, i would like quality service...ie. quality education, to see. and they dont deliver that.

unfortunate, when in real word a biz doest deliver quality, it rarely stays...unless it is a highly subsidized monopoly. like education here.

[Lucie]

"A report... says some large schools were found to have 50 students per classroom."

As if this was a fact hidden away and almost impossible to discern without a new 'study'.

"Prawit urged the ministry to keep student numbers at no more than 35 per classroom, so that large schools would not "hoard" students. He said this would reduce the problem of patronage and result in more effective educational management."

I can see the parents going for that, yes. "Sorry, this city school with good university acceptance records is full. Send your beloved only child to that one outside town. Yes, that one with the buffaloes wading in the floodwater. The one with 1 locally-educated English teacher who can't speak English. You'll be fine."

[SADWING]

In most of my classes in Surin, at a decent government school, I had well over 50 students in several classes.

[culicine]

Although that is still a lot of kids (30 per class) I agree with you totally. MEP grade 1 class at my school now has 40 students. Far too many kids in a small classroom, but unfortunately it's not about education, it's about money...

Yep, most of the private schools are businesses and all they care about is the omnipotent god which of course is money!

My private school has less than 30, but it's an english program. The Thai program has 35 or more for most classes, which I think is too much. My classes are 17-18, and one class is 9. But it seems many don't know how lucky they are to have such a small class size. Government schools have many more per class; I've heard up to 60 or 70. Not sure any student can learn anything in that environment. Bur I don't see the government doubling the budget to double the number of schools or build more classrooms.

[crazydrummerpauly]

50 in a class has been normal up here (North-East) in both private and municipal (council) schools for years - bloody ridiculous.

[chonabot]

At my previous school in Kalasin, my smallest class was 51 and largest was over 60.

But for my last Semester, they asked me to teach some extra classes (TSL), and these had about 30 students per room.

It was pretty difficult at first, having been used to a sea of faces instead of a rather small pond.

But after a few weeks things were so much easier, and it made the huge classes even harder to connect with, sadly.

Most of the kids in the TSL classes were fairly well off, judging by the iPhone 5 and alienware laptop numbers.

I agree with Kirsty - money talks, and the director needs fuel for his private ,somtam themed, jet...bless.

Edited September 27, 2013 by chonabot

[Korat28]

Far too many kids in a small classroom, but unfortunately it's not about education, it's about money...

I think the best for the children would be 24 students to a class but after a class size of 30 students then the behavior and learning are sacrificed.

I agree with both of these posts! I taught in Isaan in classes which sometimes had 40+ students and it was stressful and a lot of times it was pulling teeth getting them to learn and focus!

[metisdead]

A trolling post has been removed.

[Scott]

Where I work the class size is about 32 students. A few years ago it was 28 - 32, but I notice this year, the 32 seems to creeping up toward some classes with 35.

[Dap]

Oh, ya' think

For the first 15 or so years I thought

it mandatory for every class to have

50 (or sometimes more) stdnts per class

I adjusted ... so did the students

[jerry1989]

I agree reducing the numbers must be better but what about all the other things that matter. This is what goes on in my immediate area which is very rural:-

-continual closures for teacher's meetings

-teachers not actually teaching because they go out for a smoke or drink or at worst just go to sleep in the classroom

-what about discipline amongst teachers, working well and setting an example and sanctions if they don't

-teachers being able to pay subordinates to take their classes while they have a day off and still draw their salaries

-closures for maintenance done in school terms rather than holidays

-so many days of non-educational activity ie a week lost for Children's day while they practice silly dances the young ones can't do

-schools closed for non-school sporting events

-impossible to give a zero mark for children even if they never attend, oh just go and clear some weeds and we will give you a one marking so you can move on.

-loosing students because the school can't teach English and will not spend money they have to employ some help - wonder where the money goes

I could go on but seems to me a lot of the problem in rural areas comes from a lack of control and this continual problem of saving face. How can it be that if a student is unruly, doesn't attend, takes yaba at school if the school say something it is them who are in the wrong and look bad not the badly behaved pupil.

These are serious problems which the Ministry of Education has to check. Thai teachers, mostly, are LAZY.

[SlyAnimal]

I teach at a pretty decent sized government high school in the Isaan countryside (2600+ students).

When I first started there 2 1/2 years ago my classes each had around 50 students on the roll.

Now my classes usually have around 35-40 students, occasionally higher due to late additions to the class. I don't know if its the director doing a good job, we joke about how he spends a lot of time playing golf with the provincial big wigs (and he even built a driving range at school, for the students, lol).

However would like to say at least some schools (at least mine anyway), do seem to be improving the quality of education they offer. We have new astroturf tennis courts, a golf driving range, 4 NES teachers and 2 Chinese teachers, the school didn't have any of these 5 years ago.

They still take huge amounts of extra days off for random events, likewise discipline and commitment to their studies are often lacking, but as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.

The Thai education system isn't even close to western standards, but I think it's improving. They do a few stupid things (e.g. Degrees being required for NES to teach), but on the whole I think it's improving compared to where it was. Even in the 3 years I've been here teaching I've seen significant improvements, so it's happening, just one step at a time

[mike123ca]

I teach at one of the large government high schools in Ubon, the last 3 years it has been 50 students for the high school and 55 to 60 for middle school. The administration will tell that these are very ideal class sizes with a straight face.

[tingtongteesood]

There are 50 kids in classes all over Thailand including Bangkok, 30 is already too many...,

[ppmacready]

My daughter is 50-50.

I can't afford an international school.

She is home schooled with another child by a Filipino.

The results are out standing.

I know one lady who took 3 kids out of the Regents school because she was disappointed with the results.

Now she's happy.

Its the future.

I feel there will soon be ''private'' schools offering class's of 6-15 children.

[Sunderland]

Teachers who do their very best to try and teach a foreign language to a class of over 30 students are to be applauded if they really do make an effort to make their classes interesting and stimulating, and don't let disappointing results get them down. Positive results are possible. I know this because I have been teaching in the same private Thai school for 13 years.

In the 13 years I have worked at my school the number of students in the primary classes rose from 27 to 42 during the construction of an extra building. It's now settled down to about 35 per class in most grades. More than the acceptance of almost any student and the pressure to pass everyone, the challenge tends to be physically reaching students who are struggling without falling over bags, legs or breaking anything due to the lack of space in most classrooms. However, by being optimistic, positive and still striving to give the kids the best education you can, you are doing a worthwhile job, even if it can often feel like the overall learning evironment could be much better.

Working with a good team of teachers who can get along, and generally feel positive about coming into work can make a big difference. We would all like to teach smaller classes, but at the end of the day, many schools with smaller classes are language schools who are possibly the worst place of all to work in every respect.

Chins up ... every ounce of effort makes a difference in the long term.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Sunderland

[tetleythedog]

Yes, it's certainly reassuring to know that it took a survey to realise this fact. I thought it was merely common sense, but apparently they do not teach that subject in schools here. I have been teaching here for 9 years, and i could have told them that after the first day. As many of you will say..........it won't change...........it never does. Ten years from now someone will do another survey and come to the same amazing conclusion. And sadly enough, it is all about money, not education. The kids in M1 you have a chance with, but as they get older the system takes the want to learn out of them. Absenteeism is never punished, and it is always the Farang teacher who is invariably in the wrong. It's not about education, it's about entertainment. The number of times i have heard " He is too serious" if you try to get the kids to actually learn something.

no more than 30!