Flirting

[kat]

if someone is flirting with you, it doesnt necessarily mean that they want sex!

i flirt with the immigration man so that he doesnt give me a hard time. i dont want sex with him!

i flirt with the girls at the market to give me a good price. i dont wan sex with them!

i flirt with my staff in a different way to get them to do things! i DEFINITELY dont want sex with them!

there are so many different ways of flirting. they dont ALL relate to sex.

Exactly.

there are so many different ways of flirting. they dont ALL relate to sex.

My home dictionary says - If you flirt with someone, you behave as if you are sexually attracted to them, in a playful or not very serious way. Dad's flirting with all the ladies, or they're all flirting with him, as usaul...

Different people might have a different interpretation on the word flirt, but at least this thread of thaibebop is about sexually related, I think.

So that means one simply just can't flirt with anyone who's obviously impossible to be sexually attracted.

Not really. Flirting is one of those things like smiling or touching. You can smile and touch for different reasons, one of which is sexual. But to limit smiling and touching to only the sexual, is missing out on a lot of warmth and affection.

I tend to fall for the quiet types, that hang back a little. But this presents a problem, because when I am actually really attracted to someone, I don't flirt! Well, not consciously anyway, because I'm usually too nervous. I try to work up the nerve to talk to him a few times first before any real flirting may start. It's a difficult thing, because I like the guy who is not a roving flirt, but I also need him to make a decisive move and come and get me at some point. If he doesn't flirt, and I'm too nervous, how does he know that I want him to come and get me? You see the dilemma.

Understand exactly! As I say, life contradicts itself all the time.

But I guess you just haven't yet met the one whom you would jump uncontrollably onto like a lion and start chewing. By then, everything is going to go naturally, I guess.

Yeah, I like your lioness analogy. I used to feel that way, but these days, there are so many contradictions between what men say they want and what they do, that I simply don't know anymore. And also, it's quite easy to pounce on someone if all you want is sex, but if you are looking for something else it becomes a lot more complicated: i.e. - what is that ring on his finger, is he in a relationship, how does he view me, etc.

You see, thinking is very bad for flirting. That's why it's so much easier with people whom you don't think about as much. But, it's great when non-thinking flirting sparks something that you hadn't thought about before

[donna]

flirting can be done subconsciously also. a flick of the hair, picking stuff off of a mans clothes etc. these are things you just do without realising it and are common body language signs of flirting.

these dont necessarily mean that you want to throw someone down and have a jolly good romp with them.

but then again, sometimes it does!

[girlx]

I love flirting! It's just fun- a little bit of drama in the ol' day can't hurt anyone. I rarely do it myself... usually if I like someone he is the last to know , but occasionally I will meet someone I really click with or that I am madly attracted to and I can turn it up a bit. I guess for me there is usually a real interest behind it, whether I actually follow up on it or not. Therefore it doesn't become embarassing, because I don't lead on people I am not interested in.

[donna]

i hardly ever flirt with people i really like! it makes me feel silly for some reason.

much the same as many people on this thread have already mentioned.

[Glauka]

'Pusy cat pusy cat, where have you been. I have been to London to look at the Queen.'

I am good. Actually after coming back from a holiday in England and Italy in January, I lost the habit of looking into the computer for a while. Only picked it up back recently.

nice to have you back....

[meemiathai]

[meemiathai]

Oh yes, Kat, forgot you were a lioness instead. Just used the word lion to make the action sound more vigourously.

[thaibebop]

if someone is flirting with you, it doesnt necessarily mean that they want sex!

i flirt with the immigration man so that he doesnt give me a hard time. i dont want sex with him!

i flirt with the girls at the market to give me a good price. i dont wan sex with them!

i flirt with my staff in a different way to get them to do things! i DEFINITELY dont want sex with them!

there are so many different ways of flirting. they dont ALL relate to sex.

This is what I am talking about. You are flirting with people to get things. I never said flirting had to be about sex, but it is using ones sex to ones benefit. I said that was one of the things I hated the most, when a woman worked in the room needing help of some kind batting her eyelashes while she was asking me. Why do you need to flirt with these people to get such things? Can't you just be nice, civil, & professional?

I know this sounds harsh, believe me it's not, I am just struggling with a right way to ask these questions and couln't do it, so I'm just letting you know I am not trying to be insulting or confrontational. Sorry.

[thaibebop]

if someone is flirting with you, it doesnt necessarily mean that they want sex!

i flirt with the immigration man so that he doesnt give me a hard time. i dont want sex with him!

i flirt with the girls at the market to give me a good price. i dont wan sex with them!

i flirt with my staff in a different way to get them to do things! i DEFINITELY dont want sex with them!

there are so many different ways of flirting. they dont ALL relate to sex.

Exactly.

there are so many different ways of flirting. they dont ALL relate to sex.

My home dictionary says - If you flirt with someone, you behave as if you are sexually attracted to them, in a playful or not very serious way. Dad's flirting with all the ladies, or they're all flirting with him, as usaul...

Different people might have a different interpretation on the word flirt, but at least this thread of thaibebop is about sexually related, I think.

So that means one simply just can't flirt with anyone who's obviously impossible to be sexually attracted.

Not really. Flirting is one of those things like smiling or touching. You can smile and touch for different reasons, one of which is sexual. But to limit smiling and touching to only the sexual, is missing out on a lot of warmth and affection.

I think you must separate these physical actions. There is smiling at someone in a friendly manner, or in a professional sense and then there is sexy smiling. Models selling hand soap and beer have the sexy smile. A person shouldn't be giving the sexy smile to someone just to get some help for something. Touching is the same thing. I have been touched by strange women when at jobs and I dislike it greatly. They put there hands on mine when I picked up their check, when I was a waiter. It wasn't short contact either, they would hold my hand while telling me how much they enjoyed their meal! Why would they do this? When I worked as a wine guy for a liquor store these women, as we walked along the rows on wine racks would put/try there arms around mine, like we were dating or something. These were the women that really made me mad for I gave clear physical signs that touching me was not okay.

I tend to fall for the quiet types, that hang back a little. But this presents a problem, because when I am actually really attracted to someone, I don't flirt! Well, not consciously anyway, because I'm usually too nervous. I try to work up the nerve to talk to him a few times first before any real flirting may start. It's a difficult thing, because I like the guy who is not a roving flirt, but I also need him to make a decisive move and come and get me at some point. If he doesn't flirt, and I'm too nervous, how does he know that I want him to come and get me? You see the dilemma.

Understand exactly! As I say, life contradicts itself all the time.

But I guess you just haven't yet met the one whom you would jump uncontrollably onto like a lion and start chewing. By then, everything is going to go naturally, I guess.

Yeah, I like your lioness analogy. I used to feel that way, but these days, there are so many contradictions between what men say they want and what they do, that I simply don't know anymore. And also, it's quite easy to pounce on someone if all you want is sex, but if you are looking for something else it becomes a lot more complicated: i.e. - what is that ring on his finger, is he in a relationship, how does he view me, etc.

You see, thinking is very bad for flirting. That's why it's so much easier with people whom you don't think about as much. But, it's great when non-thinking flirting sparks something that you hadn't thought about before

[sbk]

thaibebop, I agree that inappropriate touching is most annoying. And should be discouraged with some direct but polite movement away from the toucher.

That said, about your earlier post regarding women asking for help for something in a flirtatious manner, well, alot of that depends on how the man views it too. Many times I have been friendly to a man who has taken it as flirting, when I certainly did not think I was flirting, just being friendly. Some guys have an overdeveloped sense of their own attractiveness and assume that any woman who is friendly is hitting on them.

I am not saying you are that way but sometimes it helps to look at ones own attitude towards things before making assumptions about other people's behavior and motives.

[thaibebop]

thaibebop, I agree that inappropriate touching is most annoying. And should be discouraged with some direct but polite movement away from the toucher.

That said, about your earlier post regarding women asking for help for something in a flirtatious manner, well, alot of that depends on how the man views it too. Many times I have been friendly to a man who has taken it as flirting, when I certainly did not think I was flirting, just being friendly. Some guys have an overdeveloped sense of their own attractiveness and assume that any woman who is friendly is hitting on them.

I am not saying you are that way but sometimes it helps to look at ones own attitude towards things before making assumptions about other people's behavior and motives.

All very good points, sbk. I understand what you are saying and no I don't think you are saying that I am an egoist. I have known too many women to have an ego. Just kidding.

What I am talking about though is clear body language and tone of voice. I mean you would have to be completely daft not to know the person is flirting. It's that clear that they have put so much effort into being noticed, and in doing so have become completely out of line.

Now I know flirting is natural, for most people, and little things aren't that bothersome, but too many little things and when these things stop being little and they are at the wrong places and the wrong times.....

[kat]

I think you must separate these physical actions. There is smiling at someone in a friendly manner, or in a professional sense and then there is sexy smiling. Models selling hand soap and beer have the sexy smile. A person shouldn't be giving the sexy smile to someone just to get some help for something. Touching is the same thing. I have been touched by strange women when at jobs and I dislike it greatly. They put there hands on mine when I picked up their check, when I was a waiter. It wasn't short contact either, they would hold my hand while telling me how much they enjoyed their meal! Why would they do this? When I worked as a wine guy for a liquor store these women, as we walked along the rows on wine racks would put/try there arms around mine, like we were dating or something. These were the women that really made me mad for I gave clear physical signs that touching me was not okay.[/color]

I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't flirt in the office, or to get things from anyone. I smile or "flirt" as an extension of how I feel about myself, and the person with whom I'm interacting. As I said earlier, the best example of flirting is when there is no end goal.

I am one of those people that is demonstrative and "touchy". It is part of my cultural heritiage. I touch people lightly in conversation to make them feel heard, included, or just to convey my friendliness or warmth. I do this with everyone - males, females, etc. It is never inappropriate, and if it is unwanted I don't do it. Of course I learned to reign this in on official interactions when I have to think about it, but it is part of my relaxed and unthinking nature. Sometimes I'll have a male totallly misunderstand the gesture. It is unfortunate, because it is always a gesture of warmth or friendliness, nothing more.

*edit spelling

Edited April 29, 2006 by kat

[Sheryl]

Bebops, I agree with you completely...I don't like flirting or any other game playing for that matter. I like direct, simple & honest interaction with people. But as we've seen on this thtread, some people enjoy flirting. It is an individual thing -- and also somewhat cultural, for example in some cultures (e.g the french) it is considered more or less mandatory to flirt a bit whenever dealing with the opposite sex, if you don't it's almost an insult.

I think flirting can be done for several reasons. Some people do it in order to get something they want. Some people do it to try to elicit secual attraction because that makes them feel attractive (i.e. they seek reassurance of their own attractiveness). Some people do it to elicit sexual attraction because they are actually or potentially interested in pursuing a sexual relationship. Some pople do it because it's the norm in their culture or social circle (i.e. they do it to conform and be accepted). And some pople simply find it amusing and fun. And then there are those of us who never do it, or do it only when seriusly interested in the other person sexually.

Anyhow, to get back to your original question of when is it too much -- it is too much as soon as it is tried and does not get (or ceases to get) a positive response indicating that the other party also enjoys the process. So those of you who find flirting fun -- bear in mind that not everyone else does, and be sensitive to the signals you get back.

I don't mind if someone flirts at first and drops it as soon as I don't respond in kind; I understand that they have their way and have adjusted appropriately to mine now that they know it. What I find very objectionable is when someone carries on despite a clear lack of response or encouragement. That is at best completely ionsensitiver or at worst, harrassing.

BTW, your original example for flirting by a guy wasn't really flirting in my find..the "Hey baby" stuff put on for a pretty customer is usually done to impress other guys, and not at all in a way that would impress the woman. In fact it borders on harassment of the woman. Sort of the same idea as wolf whistles. At least I assume that even the dumbest guy knows that this sort of thing is a turn-off to women....

[The Dude]

Totally agree with above comments

[donna]

what i do isnt really flirting of the sexual nature. it is more being sweet in order to get my way. i dont give these people the idea that i want to have sex with them. i just sort of sweet talk them.

i find that there is a big difference in this and flirting in a sexual way to win over a potential mate.

there is no offence whatsoever taken at any of your comments thaibebop. we are all entitled to our opinions and you are being very civilised about making yours know.

if someone is flirting with you, it doesnt necessarily mean that they want sex!

i flirt with the immigration man so that he doesnt give me a hard time. i dont want sex with him!

i flirt with the girls at the market to give me a good price. i dont wan sex with them!

i flirt with my staff in a different way to get them to do things! i DEFINITELY dont want sex with them!

there are so many different ways of flirting. they dont ALL relate to sex.

This is what I am talking about. You are flirting with people to get things. I never said flirting had to be about sex, but it is using ones sex to ones benefit. I said that was one of the things I hated the most, when a woman worked in the room needing help of some kind batting her eyelashes while she was asking me. Why do you need to flirt with these people to get such things? Can't you just be nice, civil, & professional?

I know this sounds harsh, believe me it's not, I am just struggling with a right way to ask these questions and couln't do it, so I'm just letting you know I am not trying to be insulting or confrontational. Sorry.

[meemiathai]

Totally agree with above comments

et moi aussi

[jdinasia]

thaibebop, I agree that inappropriate touching is most annoying. And should be discouraged with some direct but polite movement away from the toucher.

That said, about your earlier post regarding women asking for help for something in a flirtatious manner, well, alot of that depends on how the man views it too. Many times I have been friendly to a man who has taken it as flirting, when I certainly did not think I was flirting, just being friendly. Some guys have an overdeveloped sense of their own attractiveness and assume that any woman who is friendly is hitting on them.

I am not saying you are that way but sometimes it helps to look at ones own attitude towards things before making assumptions about other people's behavior and motives.

All very good points, sbk. I understand what you are saying and no I don't think you are saying that I am an egoist. I have known too many women to have an ego. Just kidding.

What I am talking about though is clear body language and tone of voice. I mean you would have to be completely daft not to know the person is flirting. It's that clear that they have put so much effort into being noticed, and in doing so have become completely out of line.

Now I know flirting is natural, for most people, and little things aren't that bothersome, but too many little things and when these things stop being little and they are at the wrong places and the wrong times.....

OK ... I am really getting lost now .... so flirting is natural for most people .... then what is the question?

I know ... when does it become embarassing .... but really ... some people lack the social skills ... or here in particular ... the language skills to do much other than flirt ...

Edited April 29, 2006 by jdinasia

[thaibebop]

I think you must separate these physical actions. There is smiling at someone in a friendly manner, or in a professional sense and then there is sexy smiling. Models selling hand soap and beer have the sexy smile. A person shouldn't be giving the sexy smile to someone just to get some help for something. Touching is the same thing. I have been touched by strange women when at jobs and I dislike it greatly. They put there hands on mine when I picked up their check, when I was a waiter. It wasn't short contact either, they would hold my hand while telling me how much they enjoyed their meal! Why would they do this? When I worked as a wine guy for a liquor store these women, as we walked along the rows on wine racks would put/try there arms around mine, like we were dating or something. These were the women that really made me mad for I gave clear physical signs that touching me was not okay.[/color]

I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't flirt in the office, or to get things from anyone. I smile or "flirt" as an extension of how I feel about myself, and the person with whom I'm interacting. As I said earlier, the best example of flirting is when there is no end goal.

I am one of those people that is demonstrative and "touchy". It is part of my cultural heritiage. I touch people lightly in conversation to make them feel heard, included, or just to convey my friendliness or warmth. I do this with everyone - males, females, etc. It is never inappropriate, and if it is unwanted I don't do it. Of course I learned to reign this in on official interactions when I have to think about it, but it is part of my relaxed and unthinking nature. Sometimes I'll have a male totallly misunderstand the gesture. It is unfortunate, because it is always a gesture of warmth or friendliness, nothing more.

*edit spelling

Sorry, Kat, I believe I provided the misunderstanding. When I said "I" it was figurative, not you speifically. Again, sorry.

Bebops, I agree with you completely...I don't like flirting or any other game playing for that matter. I like direct, simple & honest interaction with people. But as we've seen on this thtread, some people enjoy flirting. It is an individual thing -- and also somewhat cultural, for example in some cultures (e.g the french) it is considered more or less mandatory to flirt a bit whenever dealing with the opposite sex, if you don't it's almost an insult.

I think flirting can be done for several reasons. Some people do it in order to get something they want. Some people do it to try to elicit secual attraction because that makes them feel attractive (i.e. they seek reassurance of their own attractiveness). Some people do it to elicit sexual attraction because they are actually or potentially interested in pursuing a sexual relationship. Some pople do it because it's the norm in their culture or social circle (i.e. they do it to conform and be accepted). And some pople simply find it amusing and fun. And then there are those of us who never do it, or do it only when seriusly interested in the other person sexually.

Anyhow, to get back to your original question of when is it too much -- it is too much as soon as it is tried and does not get (or ceases to get) a positive response indicating that the other party also enjoys the process. So those of you who find flirting fun -- bear in mind that not everyone else does, and be sensitive to the signals you get back.

I don't mind if someone flirts at first and drops it as soon as I don't respond in kind; I understand that they have their way and have adjusted appropriately to mine now that they know it. What I find very objectionable is when someone carries on despite a clear lack of response or encouragement. That is at best completely ionsensitiver or at worst, harrassing.

BTW, your original example for flirting by a guy wasn't really flirting in my find..the "Hey baby" stuff put on for a pretty customer is usually done to impress other guys, and not at all in a way that would impress the woman. In fact it borders on harassment of the woman. Sort of the same idea as wolf whistles. At least I assume that even the dumbest guy knows that this sort of thing is a turn-off to women....

Very good post, Sheryl! Thank you.