‘Police nearly tricked me into a confession’

[wooloomooloo]

Andy Hall has the look of a man that is in need of a proper job.

If he's so desperate to make a difference then he could do worse than donate a few quid to a worthwhile charity.

[Time Traveller]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

You do realise you can be charged and jailed for calling someone else "a moron", don't you? Yes even on a web forum.

But you probably already knew that because you sound like someone ready to face the consequences of your actions when you are found to be contravening the laws of thailand.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Time Traveller

[Time Traveller]

I don't understand all these "Do Gooders". They come to a foreign country, expect to condem

business practices, get themselves in trouble and expect their Embassy to save them. Grow

up !!!; there are real problems in your own country, solve them first, than save the rest of the

world. No one invited you or your concerns to this country....I decided to retire here as a

guest of The Royal Thai Government. Sure there are lots of difficulties, but it's a Thai

thing and I don't feel I should be sticking my "foreign nose" into other peoples problems....

especially when I don't understand all the facts.........Go back to the UK and solve problems

there, there are a lot of them to solve.

Let me give you a similiar example. Some time ago, after international concerns, all respectable diamond trading houses and jewellry businesses decided they would no longer willingly buy diamonds sourced from countries where militias killed people and used prisoners to dig diamonds out of the ground. The reason is they decided that practice was unethical.

Maybe you believe young children should be working in factories and nothing is wrong with that. But there are a lot of people that disagree.

I wonder what other exploitation of children you are also willing to turn a blind eye to?

Enjoy your retirement and I hope you are well looked after since you're "a guest of the Royal Thai government"

Edited October 6, 2013 by Time Traveller

[rakman]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldnt intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

I thought he was being sued for exposing the exploitation of foreign labour in a human rights report. Didn't realise he'd broken the law. What did he do? Unless exposing human rights violations is a crime of course.

Does he have a work permit?

[F4UCorsair]

I applaud the man's desire to defend exploited workers, but doing so in a foreign country is fraught with danger, as he is now finding out.

I also applaud the embassy's position that they aren't there to waste resources on any crusader who sets out to change the world.

There are a number of Australians (I think 20+) now in Russian custody on piracy charges after trying to take over a Russian oil rig in the arctic, and there seems to be little that the Australian authorities can achieve on their account, even though only two tried to board the platform.

Languishing in a Russian, Thai, Nigerian, or anywhere jail doesn't seem to me to be a worthwhile way to spend time, especially when those you set out to defend don't know of, or probably care for, your efforts, nor will show any appreciation for any success you may achieve.

The world needs crusaders, but if you see yourself as one of them, give plenty of consideration to the cause, and consequences, before you embark.

Edited October 6, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[Rorri]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldnt intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

I thought he was being sued for exposing the exploitation of foreign labour in a human rights report. Didn't realise he'd broken the law. What did he do? Unless exposing human rights violations is a crime of course.

Laudable as his campaign appears to be, the British Embassy, which by dint is an extension of the British government, cannot allow itself to get drawn into every campaign by every activist Worldwide. It's a ridiculous proposition, we would end up with 20 layers working full time in every Embassy bailing out crackpot British nationals that dream up some new obscure campaign. It can't happen.

Which law did he break? Well I don't know but I lay you odds that defamation would be in the frame somewhere along the line. The guy is fluent in Thai, you would expect him to be wise to some of the archaic and ridiculous laws that riddle this country.

That's as may be , my complaint is a "campaigner" thinking the he can run to the Embassy for help when the going gets tough. What does he expect them to do? Swoop in and bypass Thai law and procedure? Not a chance of that happening, not a chance and rightfully so. Reverse it, what would you say if the Thai government tried to influence the British legal system? You would be manning the barricades.

There are far too many British infants abroad. Seriously, they need to grow up.

I believe you are right in saying he is charged with defamation, the problem is he DIDN'T defame anyone, or any company, he did do research, I believe for a finnish company, it is they who posted the material, so by law, well most definitions of law, it is the Finnish company that should be charged.

[hellodolly]

I don't understand all these "Do Gooders". They come to a foreign country, expect to condem

business practices, get themselves in trouble and expect their Embassy to save them. Grow

up !!!; there are real problems in your own country, solve them first, than save the rest of the

world. No one invited you or your concerns to this country....I decided to retire here as a

guest of The Royal Thai Government. Sure there are lots of difficulties, but it's a Thai

thing and I don't feel I should be sticking my "foreign nose" into other peoples problems....

especially when I don't understand all the facts.........Go back to the UK and solve problems

there, there are a lot of them to solve.

Let me give you a similiar example. Some time ago, after international concerns, all respectable diamond trading houses and jewellry businesses decided they would no longer willingly buy diamonds sourced from countries where militias killed people and used prisoners to dig diamonds out of the ground. The reason is they decided that practice was unethical.

Maybe you believe young children should be working in factories and nothing is wrong with that. But there are a lot of people that disagree.

I wonder what other exploitation of children you are also willing to turn a blind eye to?

Enjoy your retirement and I hope you are well looked after since you're "a guest of the Royal Thai government"

First off I am a retiree living in Thailand.

little mary sunshine you claim

".I decided to retire here as a

guest of The Royal Thai Government. Sure there are lots of difficulties, but it's a Thai

thing"

What are the difficulties. I have been retired here for seven years and not experienced any.

Now Mister Time Traveller

Are you turning a blind eye to these poor down trodden employes when they loose their job and are left with no visible means of support.

It is a package deal and it is time the do gooders get the hell out of the business unless they are willing to tackle the whole problem. Which they never seem to even acknowledge.

They just leave the mess for some other real do gooder organization willing to help the people.

[F4UCorsair]

hello dolly, there is no shortage of 'do gooders' willing to take up the fight, yet bail out when the going gets a bit tough. Frequently they do it to raise their own profiles, rather than for the good of the accused, a most unfortunate situation.

Edited October 7, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[theblether]

hello dolly, there is no shortage of 'do gooders' willing to take up the fight, yet bail out when the going gets a bit tough. Frequently they do it to raise their own profiles, rather than for the good of the accused, a most unfortunate situation.

There's plenty like that, plenty. This guy is a prime eample, the going gets tough and he starts whining that the British Embassy won't "save meeeeee!!

There are plenty of posts on this thread which exemplify the same psychology. This is a simple issue to understand. The British Embassies will not get involved in the legal process of other countries. Full stop.

If you can't get your head round that, stay in the UK.

[ericthai]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldnt intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

If western police forces treated Asians the way the BIB's treat farangs there'd be hell on. They completely ignore every human rights convention in existence ( usually at the whim of a politician who is in the pay of some shady character or other).

Britain has been at the forefront of great global human rights innovations for over a century.

This type of instance is precisely what they ( the embassy/consulates ) should be involved in and not caving into faux thatcherites like yourself

Really? What human rights violations have the BIB portrayed against you? I have never had a problem. Sure I have been stopped for speeding so I decide to pay a little tea money instead of receiving an official ticket, but this is my choice and it's not a human rights violation, this is corrupt police accepting a bribe. Other than that I have never been mistreated by the BIB. Actually they have been helpful a few times. I had an employee stealing from my company and when I provided proof he was arrested and prosecuted.

The journalist knew the risks when he did the investigation and many people on the forum have applauded him for taking the risk, but now they are also support his request for help from the Embassy. I believe that is back-stepping. If you applaud him for taking the risk and the risk is he could have issues with the legal system which he now does have how can you support his request for help?

My question is how sure is he that human rights violations are being committed? or is it really a violation of what he believes are human rights and might actually be work or labor laws being violated. I think if you go to any company you are going to have workers complaining that things are difficult, unfair and they are not happy.

So what are the violations that are being committed here? Do you know? Are these workers being held against their will? Are they being tortured? Are they in pain and being refused treatment for illness or cuts? Are they being mentally, sexually abused? If so then we can say yes, these are human rights violations. If not then what are the issues? Long work days? not being paid minimum wage? No holidays or holiday pay, no overtime pay? Working in dangerous conditions? Well then these are more of a work condition issue. Not a Human right violations. If the workers are being forced to work and cant leave, again yes a human rights violation, but if they have a choice to work or not then they know what they are agreeing to do and it's their decision to do so. I'm not agreeing that workers should not be paid a fair amount or be treated fair, or have safe working conditions as they should.

Human rights are based on the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights". However there are many exceptions to this, as Muslim countries have amendments to suit them and Asia as has an amendment for their goals. So what the west may say is Human rights, other countries may not agree so it's not a black and white issue. If you look at the USA they are in violation of this declaration. The Declaration states that all citizens have the right to leave any country. However because the USA revokes people's passports for not paying child support this can be considered as a violations, this is just one example there are more.Is anyone going after the US government about this? No!

This journalist chose his battle without maybe knowing all the facts. As he is going after a company on what he believes are human right issues.

One last thing,. you say "Britain has been at the forefront of great global human rights innovations for over a century"

I don't see Britain or the USA or any other nation at the forefront? I see many NGO's working on doing things, the governments I only see them when they have something to gain. Where were the western governments when Burma was (and possibly still) killing Muslims. The massacres in the Congo, Rawanda etc. Don't fool yourself into believing your (my) nation(s) are the great saviors, they have committed far worse atrocities than any company here in Thailand is doing.

[hellodolly]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

If western police forces treated Asians the way the BIB's treat farangs there'd be hell on. They completely ignore every human rights convention in existence ( usually at the whim of a politician who is in the pay of some shady character or other).

Britain has been at the forefront of great global human rights innovations for over a century.

This type of instance is precisely what they ( the embassy/consulates ) should be involved in and not caving into faux thatcherites like yourself

Lord Palmerston died in 1865.

Is sustento talking about the same British that tried to rape the world and brought many of these practices into being?

[timewilltell]

Are these the same Thai Visa posters that moan about this how this law should be changed, there is no rule of law in Thailand, Thai corruption, disgraceful scams etc. etc.?

Now a man who is actually speaking out for migrant workers gets shot down in flames and told to shut up while in country - bunch of hypocrites. Like I said, you lot would be squealing like pigs if it was you in the vice.

Well done Mr. Hall.

It takes integrity and bravery to speak out and expose this kind of persecution against migrant workers in the face of the usual lying, duplicitous and abusive nature of many of the employers here.

Thais are bullies, and I was always told to stand up to bullies. The justice system (as well as other facets of the culture and system) works on extortion and bullying, in lieu of proper investigative methods, honesty and transparency.

The factory will now bully with defamation lawsuits, using their connections in the Police to coerce Mr. Hall to bend to their will. If unsuccessful, threats and possibly even violence will be the next resort.

Westerners that stick their nose in and expose blatant Thai criminality are often killed; Michael Wansley springs instantly to mind.

It's the way it works here. No surprise there are expats that find it hard to think properly have no problem with this behaviour.

Personally, I find it disgusting and I admire Mr. Hall for his efforts.

Are you two having difficulty reading?

Nobody is having a go at this guy for sticking up for Human Rights, the fact is that the UK Government are not in a position to help anyone that decides to do things of their own accord. IF Andy Hall's human rights are infringed and he is mistreated in terms of the normal handling one would expect in a legal proceeding, then the Government will step in. Most of the dullards that complain that the 'British Embassy' are 'no good and do nuffin for anyone' are amongst the group of 'expats' that left the UK for no other reason than they were in the s**t back home with the taxman or the law and now expect that simply because they are in a foreign country the UK Government should wipe their <deleted> for them.

The Foreign Office did not put Embassy's around the world to help infantile expats with 'lost credit cards', no money left in the bank, got drunk and lost my passport and can't afford a ticket home! If you do anything that will make you the subject of a legal dispute then you need to get a lawyer. Claiming to be a Human Rights 'Activist' is no defence as just like any other 'Activist' (animal rights activist for example) some of them are a little over zealous with their methods and do things which require them to be banged up. Now Andy Hall may well be on to something and I had followed his story and felt for him and his cause, but if this news article is accurate then he has lost all credibility in my eyes and knows nothing about the correct way to expose wrong doings. He needs to grow up and some of you on TV need to grow a pair. The Embassy is not some nurse maid for you to suckle up to the teat every time you get yourself in difficulty by following your own choices.

The British Embassy are without a doubt the best organization in this country for Brits in trouble. They will direct all the appropriate help in your direction and do whatever they can within the law and within diplomatic law to assist you. They will NOT go outside the law. There is no other Embassy from no other nation in this country whose staff will visit you as often as British Embassy staff if you are in Prison awaiting trial. I KNOW because I have seen it (and for others who wish to see it, it is possible) visits to sick and infirm, visits to completely ungrateful kn*bs in prison (who I might add are always EXTREMELY grateful when they get out having seen the treatment other foreign expats get) who complain 'why am I being held, get me out of here, the coppers would just give me a warning back home for smoking dope' !!! and after listening to that tripe the Embassy staff give soap, sandwiches, cigarettes and money ALL out of their own pocket to aid the individual. They then fill in paperwork to get the individual emergency funds from the charity prisoners abroad. Do they need to do that? Nope, but they will. Do they need to travel 5 hours to see you if you get blind drunk and raped on the beach at a full moon party, nope but they do AND make sure the individual is cared for with compassion and given every effort to ensure their security until they can get out of hospital or flown home. Some of you have ZERO idea of what is done out here apart from getting drunk in bars every day. Little wonder such uneducated 'opinions' seem to surface on here. Some of you really need to look at your excuses for a life and go get a real one.

Maybe some of what you say is true but I think the Embassy should assist you in the strongest terms if you are being set up. If you are being coerced into signing fraudulent confessions by the police, if lawyers are screwing you over and if the court processes are undermined by corruption within the court administration offices. They should also assist to get you out of the country if your life is threatened and you request it.

Yes if you get yourself into trouble and get banged up because of it then you have yourself to blame. Many times foreigners are targeted for extortion, theft and fraud and it is time the British and other embassies stood up for people who are targeted in this racist fashion.

Unfortunately the British Embassy is not willing, or authorized maybe to help at all yet promote themselves as being there to help foreigners in trouble abroad. Yes they will give you a list of hugely expensive lawyers who they appear not to have checked out and take no responsibility for. Their translators off that list want 3,000 baht per hour of attendance at court - and most times cases are adjourned because there are too many cases scheduled on a day - regularly four or five as well as yours for each of the morning and afternoon sessions - that is a lot to pay for an Embassy promoted translator to sit on his arris for. Your case might have 5 of more hearings before you even get to give evidence - it is mighty expensive as a foreigner and in any case most of the lawyers work together against you the corruption and professionalism with lawyers simply does not exist here.

I think the Embassy should either forget pretending it is there to help and if it is intended to expose child labour and child prostitution and other such heinous acts then it should support those sticking their neck out of just fess up to the fact that they don't give a hoot about anything and will not help. That would be the honest and professional thing to do instead of the deceit in its propaganda.

[mrtoad]

Andy Hall, must have known the risks entailed when he embarked on exposing the company. As it has been pointed out, defamation laws here often protect corrupt practices, and corrupt individuals. He maybe should have thought about leaving the country before making his findings public, but obviously thought differently.

[GAZZPA]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldnt intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

I thought he was being sued for exposing the exploitation of foreign labour in a human rights report. Didn't realise he'd broken the law. What did he do? Unless exposing human rights violations is a crime of course.

Laudable as his campaign appears to be, the British Embassy, which by dint is an extension of the British government, cannot allow itself to get drawn into every campaign by every activist Worldwide. It's a ridiculous proposition, we would end up with 20 layers working full time in every Embassy bailing out crackpot British nationals that dream up some new obscure campaign. It can't happen.

Which law did he break? Well I don't know but I lay you odds that defamation would be in the frame somewhere along the line. The guy is fluent in Thai, you would expect him to be wise to some of the archaic and ridiculous laws that riddle this country.

That's as may be , my complaint is a "campaigner" thinking the he can run to the Embassy for help when the going gets tough. What does he expect them to do? Swoop in and bypass Thai law and procedure? Not a chance of that happening, not a chance and rightfully so. Reverse it, what would you say if the Thai government tried to influence the British legal system? You would be manning the barricades.

There are far too many British infants abroad. Seriously, they need to grow up.

This guy is a campaigner for human rights not an infant abroad.

Why is it that it always takes 1 or 2 brave people to go against the grain and fight for what is right before everyone else finally gets it, "grows up" and supports. When societies collective consciousness changes things change, unfortunately until that time this fella has to deal with anything and everything the system can throw at him.

So, he goes for some support at the embassy because they are trying to stitch him up (illegal of course) and they are not interested, and then he has to read things like your post telling him to grow up. Just to repeat he is a campaigner for human rights,,, I applaud this guy and others like him, we need more peaceful campaigners. Good luck to him, I hope he can get the support to ensure that he doesn't get stitched up for trying to do the right thing.

Shame on you for turning a blind eye to his cause.

[mayday49]

It's not the job of the Embassy to hold the hands of people that want to go into countries and contravene their laws The sooner my fellow Brits grow up and examine the single line which is most relevant to us in the OP the better.........

and the embassy wouldn’t intervene unless I could not get a fair trial.

Personally, I'm fed up with these spoon fed morons coming over here and thinking that the Embassy is an extension of the welfare state. It's not.

Grow up and face the consequences of your actions.

Sounds like the fellow has done nothing illegal and is being railroaded. I'm betting you wouldn't be so self righteous if the Thai police went after you and accused you of something that was not illegal. Most likely you'd be at the British Embassy very quickly asking for help.

What was the point of that post? The guy is in the clutches of the Thai legal system. He's been arrested and questioned in a police station. Safe to say that someone somewhere in Thailand is out to get him.

Does that mean he is guilty? No. Is there anyone of any experience of living in this country unaware of the Alice In Wonderland workings of the Thai legal system? More fool them if there are. There is nothing self righteous about pointing out that he cannot expect the government to fight this battle for him. It's is rank stupidity to expect the British government to interfere in the legal workings of another country.

So rather than having a useless pop at me, fix it in your head that this is a self inflicted wound. He will have to face the consequences of mixing it with the Thai legal system alone.

Oh, and be rest assured that I know I can be fitted up the same as the next guy, but after plenty of years as an expat and dealing with various Embassies on my travels, I know they can't help me. That being the case I still choose to be here. My bone of contention is with the muppets that think they can swan about creating a mess and the British government will clean up after them. They are a danger to themselves.

Grow up, it's never going to happen.

Well done , Sir ...

[jackandjim]

Disgusting that the Embassy dares to draw the comparison to Pedophiles

western world opinion goes sumthing along the lines of this "how dare he goto a third world country and help the poor !!" throw him in the slammer.

[zakk9]

It seems like most posters on thaivisa.com is opposed to NGOs that try to expose abuse of migrant workers, even though this is the only way to get publicity around these questions. I don't know how the posters in question would feel if the kind of abuse in question affected someone in their own family, but from reading all the posts here, they don't seem to give damn. They are all from rich, western communities anyway, and these questions don't affect them as long as the result of the abuse is cheap food and cheap clothing.

I wouldn't be able to eat as much as I want to puke from reading all this ignorant nonsense

[Yunla]

I applaud him for his efforts on behalf of the undervalued in society. However I also feel that if he wants to do that kind of work without facing problems like large-scale corruption and general resentment of foreigners and poor people, then he should do any number of welfare-related jobs in the UK or another nation where he can rely on a robust legal system, and where he isn't going to get legally nailed to the floorboards by some random local Sherriff. Having taken the plunge to engage in these things in one of / the most notoriously corrupt region in the world, he really should accept this was his decision and a sort of Vegas gamble on the possible outcomes.

I totally agree with the earlier posters about Embassy priorities, and rescuing crusaders is not one of them. Embassy is there for people who for example have a terrible accident and need emergency surgery, and the Embassy grant that person an open-ended visa to cover their entire stay in hospital, however long that is. Again the person having the accident gets help because they didn't set out knowing they would have a terrible accident. They are innocent victims of misfortune, which is why they get helped.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Yunla

[Local Drunk]

Disgusting that the Embassy dares to draw the comparison to Pedophiles

western world opinion goes sumthing along the lines of this "how dare he goto a third world country and help the poor !!" throw him in the slammer.

I understand his motives in doing this, but you can't go playing "Lone Wolf" in a foreign country on an issue like this. If your a journalist or a human rights activist you have to have some real power behind you before you take on an issue like this; or you use your head and post your story or documentary after you've left the country. What I think the embassy is saying with respect to the pedophile comparison is that "It seems you've broken the law, and the type of offense that you've committed doesn't matter. We can't and won't help you."

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed. If you cannot keep your comments civil, don't bother posting.

[GentlemanJim]

Maybe some of what you say is true but I think the Embassy should assist you in the strongest terms if you are being set up. If you are being coerced into signing fraudulent confessions by the police, if lawyers are screwing you over and if the court processes are undermined by corruption within the court administration offices. They should also assist to get you out of the country if your life is threatened and you request it.

Yes if you get yourself into trouble and get banged up because of it then you have yourself to blame. Many times foreigners are targeted for extortion, theft and fraud and it is time the British and other embassies stood up for people who are targeted in this racist fashion.

Unfortunately the British Embassy is not willing, or authorized maybe to help at all yet promote themselves as being there to help foreigners in trouble abroad. Yes they will give you a list of hugely expensive lawyers who they appear not to have checked out and take no responsibility for. Their translators off that list want 3,000 baht per hour of attendance at court - and most times cases are adjourned because there are too many cases scheduled on a day - regularly four or five as well as yours for each of the morning and afternoon sessions - that is a lot to pay for an Embassy promoted translator to sit on his arris for. Your case might have 5 of more hearings before you even get to give evidence - it is mighty expensive as a foreigner and in any case most of the lawyers work together against you the corruption and professionalism with lawyers simply does not exist here.

I think the Embassy should either forget pretending it is there to help and if it is intended to expose child labour and child prostitution and other such heinous acts then it should support those sticking their neck out of just fess up to the fact that they don't give a hoot about anything and will not help. That would be the honest and professional thing to do instead of the deceit in its propaganda.

All of what I say is true. And it does not matter what you think the British Embassy should do, they are bound by a strict set of protocols that they cannot breach. One of the many functions of the Embassy is that it is there to help you if you get in trouble and the conditions for that are clearly stated on their website and what they cannot do is also clearly stated on their website. Getting into trouble does not mean going out getting drunk and being arrested for falling flat on your face in the middle of the road, nor does it mean going on a personal crusade to address a Human Rights issue and finding that you have breached the law in trying to do what you intended. There are many many professional organizations that are out there addressing human rights issues and if Mr Hall would have taken his finding to them then those findings would have been published in the correct way and there would have been no trouble.

What many of you miss is that there is a very common trait amongst 'activists' of any sort and that is that they all share one common failing, they just LOVE to be in the limelight, getting their name associated with a scoop. Go on facebook and look at the various 'activist' groups, it's a real laugh. Whether it's Human rights, animal welfare, whatever, they are all so busy attacking each other over who owns what photo, who came out with the news first, why nobody has given the correct credit to them blah blah blah, that they never get anything done. Andy Hall has displayed a great naivety doing what he has done, and an even greater display of naivety in his statements concerning the British Embassy and what it should be doing.

you said

I think the Embassy should either forget pretending it is there to help and if it is intended to expose child labour and child prostitution and other such heinous acts then it should support those sticking their neck out of just fess up to the fact that they don't give a hoot about anything and will not help. That would be the honest and professional thing to do instead of the deceit in its propaganda.

More naivety, this time from you. It is not the job of the British Embassy or indeed any other embassy to expose child labour and child prostitution. There are much bigger organizations for that. The United Nations has a very big building in Bangkok full of people. One of the departments there is responsible for rooting out child prostitution and Human trafficking. They are very good at their jobs and always act on good intel. Why did Mr Hall not go there with his info? I would suggest that his name would never have been printed in the newspaper if he had. The UN would have acted, but there would be no publicity and many activists are also narcicists by nature. I have spoken with a guy who worked in the Human Trafficking dept at the UN in Bangkok and he said that another problem they have is dealing with men who travel here on their own claiming they want to fight child prostitution, when the truth is quite the opposite, they want to root out the 'source' for other far more unpleasant and illegal reasons. I am not implying Mr Hall is in that category in any way but it is something to consider next time you are in the pub and instead of people telling stories such as 'I was a member of the SAS', you get, 'I am here to fight child prostitution on my own'.

Andy Hall needs a lawyer period. He also needs to stop mouthing off ill considered words to the press that are going to get him in further trouble or make the case against him more robust. As the Blether said, he is a danger to himself. If Hall were working for an organization they would have taken care of all these issues and he would be untouchable. Hall is clearly not working for an organization and certainly not one that cares. The main organizations looking after these types of issues have huge political clout, there is non available here, ask yourself why.

The list of lawyers the Embassy will give you have all been vetted. You complain about 3000 baht per hour for a translator in court, please tell me if you think you can get a translator in court for 60 pounds an hour in the UK or $100 an hour in the US? The courts here will provide one just like the UK and US, but if you want to ensure quality and impartiality then you get what you pay for. When it comes to legal issues of any sort you must spend the absolute maximum you can on the best possible help and you will get the result you want more often than not. If you can't afford it or have no insurance then stay out of trouble, especially here.

I have not seen anyone here bad mouthing Andy Hall because of what he wants to achieve. Almost all here, including myself think that admirable. What everyone is complaining about is the utter naivety thinking that he can go in like a bull in a china shop and get issued a 'get out of jail card free' from the Government.

Many of you think the Embassy should intervene for someone who may have broken the law in this country, if they do that for one, they have to do it for all. Which laws do you cross the line at? Is it OK to smoke weed on the beach just because you can in the UK without too much bother? Is it OK to sexually assault a girl in the UK because you can get away with it in Thailand? Laws in different countries are just that....different and everyones responsibility is to educate themselves on those laws before carrying out any action that could contravene them Don't they say that ignorance of the law is no excuse?

Edited October 7, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[hammered]

He is a brave man doing this.

[wolf5370]

What exactly did the police do to try to 'trick' him into signing a confession? While the Thai police does suck, the article doesn't elaborate on what happened and only paints this fella as the good guy campaigner versus dirty cops.

I'd like to know that also. Every coin has two sides.

"Every coin has two sides"..and only one destination if the BiBs are involved!

[wolf5370]

The British Embassy sucks more than The Nation newspaper. Disgusting, again.

... and certainly takes every opportunity to suck what it can out of British nationals needing nothing more than a rubber stamp and a signature....!

And who pays for the person to be sat there to do the stamping? who pays for the desk and the chair and the paperwork and the carpets and the rent and the holiday pay and the money that pays for all those people sat waiting to give letters and stamps where only 10 people a year pitch up but they complain bitterly if their is no service. Do you have any concept of the system needed to provide a service and the costs involved? Or are you just another cheap expat on the run from troubles at home that wants everything for nothing provided on a plate for you?

One would suggest every other embassy in this country has very similar costs - yet simple printed form for proof of address costs much more in the British Embassy. I guess you have or do work for them in some capacity. Just who pays? We do - the Brits - even those that no longer pay taxes and are here on retirement visas paid for it - their whole working lives. No one is asking that they launch a SAS extraction, but a representative in the police station to ensure that all is above board would be nice - and I would guess many NGOs would even fork out a little for it. Please, don't say that's what lawyers are for - most lawyers here seem to know diddly about the law - and will go for any settlement that gets them paid and out the door without damaging their police contacts!

Your continual spouting out that every one that expects a little more help from the embassy when the s**t does hit the fan, are "knobs"[sic], drug smugglers etc - is puerile and infantile. We don't expect hand holding - most wouldn't want it either - what we expect is protection from judicial and police corruption, illegal detention, forced confessions, etc - something that is easy to do by attaching a representative to the case at the start to just ensure that all goes fairly and legally (to Thai law), they do not have to interfere, just sit and record it all and pass it up the line if anything untoward happens (the threat of which should keep things fair) - this is not too much to ask for a country that could send us all in to die in some war for it at the stroke of a pen.

[technologybytes]

His position IS NO DIFFERENT to that of an accused pedophile.

The word "accused" is all important. If you are accused of a crime you can't imagine that the type of crime makes a difference to how much help you will get.

Imagine this: Mr A is accused of being a pedophile and gets no help, Mr B is accused of theft and get's assistance. It would be unfair.

[sustento]

Is sustento talking about the same British that tried to rape the world and brought many of these practices into being?

No I'm talking about a man whose first instinct as Foreign Secretary was to 'send in the gunboats' which is what the journalist we're talking about would like the British government to do (metaphorically speaking that is). I was being sarcastic for those of you that didn't realise it...

Edited October 7, 2013 by sustento

[FarangTalk]

Cops are same everywhere, not just Thailand!

Nonsense.

[FarangTalk]

The British Embassy sucks more than The Nation newspaper. Disgusting, again.

... and certainly takes every opportunity to suck what it can out of British nationals needing nothing more than a rubber stamp and a signature....!

And who pays for the person to be sat there to do the stamping? who pays for the desk and the chair and the paperwork and the carpets and the rent and the holiday pay and the money that pays for all those people sat waiting to give letters and stamps where only 10 people a year pitch up but they complain bitterly if their is no service. Do you have any concept of the system needed to provide a service and the costs involved? Or are you just another cheap expat on the run from troubles at home that wants everything for nothing provided on a plate for you?

I do apparently. 2,800thb for a letter of residence the other day which was done in little over 5 minutes.

[virtualtraveller]

This is a high profile case of harassment of human rights investigation, British Embassy would be wise to offer some help in this special case in a covert way, or risk it becoming bad press. It adds to my general feeling (as a Brit) that the foreign office has become increasingly useless in recent years, full of overpaid staff who serve you as a profit-making business would. And to think I've spent years paying tax (in one of the more heavily taxed states in the world) and now get very little in return, while refugees are taking advantage of my benefits scheme at home. Serve Britons not Britain.

[theblether]

You know, give up on this Rule Britannia mentality.

Suggestions of covert help from the British government are ridiculous. Next thing you'll be asking for is the Black Magic Man to come swooping in and whisk this poor little creature out of harms way. No one is against the guy fighting for Human Rights, the split comes from the guy not being prepared to take responsibility for his actions and trying to lay blame for his predicament against the Embassy.

Here is the link to the FCO information page for people arrested in Thailand.

https://www.gov.uk/help-if-you-are-arrested-abroad/y/thailand

Here is the abstract of what they cannot do.......

What the FCO and British consulate can’t do

The FCO and British consulate won’t be able to:

• get someone out of prison or detention
• help someone get special treatment
• offer legal advice, start legal proceedings or investigate a crime
• pay for any costs as a result of being arrested
• forward packages sent by friends or family to an arrested person or prisoner
• prevent authorities from deporting a British national after release

How about everyone putting on long trousers and actually paying attention as to what our government is clearly telling us? You get arrested here, it's down to you and you alone. Regard is as a Term & Condition of agreeing to be here.

Like all intelligent adults, if you don't like the T&C's, don't do the deal. Go home.