Domicile Questionnaire

[stubuzz]

Has anyone filled out a domicile questionnaire in connection with a child's passport? I could do with some advice about these questions.

What are your intentions at the present time regarding your future place of residence?

Where is it your intention to retire?

Where do you wish to end your days and be buried?

Under what circumstances would your intentions change?

Please note there is a very small space for the answers even though they ask for an explanation.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Curious, what country/embassy asks such invasive questions?

Mac

[noikrit]

I'm no expert so anyone please correct, my experience was that your Nominated Domicile is just that , nominated, that is to say you only have to show INTENT to live there. If you carefully read your questions they are all asking "Intention and wish" .... Not " Are " I had a nominated domicile of The Bahamas for over 10 years for tax purposes and NEVER lived there ... though I did have to give an address... any address .... Hope it helps .. Chokdee !

[stubuzz]

British Embassy.

It is a requirement to complete this in order to apply for a passport for my British/Thai daughter.

So, really i intend to return to my home country one day. ( England )

Edited October 10, 2013 by stubuzz

[krisb]

With questions like that, glad Im Australian.

[dogeatdog]

Ok as you have said its for the Uk then its quite easy to follow.

The meaning of the word "Domicile" in english tax/immigration affairs refers to your original place of birth.

I personally hate the word as it can have other meanings in other countries.

So quickly "Domicile" in english is something you cant change ever. If you were born in England the your domicile will be England.

If for example you dont know where you were born and no registration then you automatically take on your fathers domicile. If that is unknown then it falls to your grandfather and so on.

Back to the questions.

All it's about is a simple questionare for general info regarding your intensions for the future.

For example, your domicile is england but you plan to retire in Spain. If you die there in spain you want to be left there and so on and so.

The answers you give have no reflection on what you may diside on in the future.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the forms.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiftyTwo]

You don't need to answer any of those questions.

What your intentions are for the future, are nothing to do with your kid's passport.

Edited October 10, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[dogeatdog]

You don't need to answer any of those questions.

What your intentions are for the future, are nothing to do with your kid's passport.

I have to agree there. I should have said before.

Its a questionare to gain samples thats all.

Answer or not answer the choice is yours. It has no bearing on you or your family.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiftyTwo]

British Embassy.

It is a requirement to complete this in order to apply for a passport for my British/Thai daughter.

I applied for a British passport for my son quite recently, I can assure you the passport was issued without me answering any personal questions like these. It is most certainly not a requirement to complete these questions.

[Jay Sata]

I'm not trying to disagree with you dog but...

Ok as you have said its for the Uk then its quite easy to follow.

The meaning of the word "Domicile" in english tax/immigration affairs refers to your original place of birth.

I personally hate the word as it can have other meanings in other countries.

So quickly "Domicile" in english is something you cant change ever. If you were born in England the your domicile will be England.

Not quite correct. Some of the rich and wealthy,such as Daily Mail owner Lord Rothermere, although born and resident in the UK are not domiciled there. One rule for the rich and another for the plebs.

Lord Rothermere is non-UK domiciled for income and capital gains purposes, so he does not pay UK tax on his offshore income and capital gains. http://www.whoislog.info/profile/jonathan-harmsworth-4th-viscount-rothermere.html

I agree with not filling in that section. It's like the local council asking if you are married/single/gay/other when you request a library card.

This forum has been enjoyable with a nice cross section of advice lately

[stubuzz]

My daughter was born before 1st June 2006, so she falls under the old law; a paternity declaration and a domicile questionnaire are mandatory. I belive assistance will be given with the questionnaire at the embassy. I don't want to waste time at the embassy, as they told me i should be able to submit all of the documents needed to get her a passport in one day.

[Basil B]

Ok as you have said its for the Uk then its quite easy to follow.

The meaning of the word "Domicile" in english tax/immigration affairs refers to your original place of birth.

I personally hate the word as it can have other meanings in other countries.

So quickly "Domicile" in english is something you cant change ever. If you were born in England the your domicile will be England.

If for example you dont know where you were born and no registration then you automatically take on your fathers domicile. If that is unknown then it falls to your grandfather and so on.

Back to the questions.

All it's about is a simple questionare for general info regarding your intensions for the future.

For example, your domicile is england but you plan to retire in Spain. If you die there in spain you want to be left there and so on and so.

The answers you give have no reflection on what you may diside on in the future.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the forms.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In law, domicile is the status or attribution of being a permanent resident in a particular jurisdiction. A person can remain domiciled in a jurisdiction even after they have left it, if they have maintained sufficient links with that jurisdiction or have not displayed an intention to leave permanently (i.e., if that person has moved to a different state, but has not yet formed an intention to remain there indefinitely). A corporation’s place of domicile is equivalent to its place of incorporation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_(law)

No different for the UK

Understanding domicile

Domicile is not the same as nationality or residence. Your domicile is decided under general law, which means it must be interpreted according to previous rulings of the courts.

Questions of domicile can be complex but broadly speaking you have your domicile in the country that is your 'real' or permanent home which, if you have left, you intend to return to.

You cannot be without a domicile, and you can only have one domicile at a time.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/domicile.htm

You don't need to answer any of those questions.

What your intentions are for the future, are nothing to do with your kid's passport.

The fact is the Stubuzz needs to demonstrate the legitimacy of the child, if he was domiciled in the UK then his child would be legitimate, if not then it gets more difficult as it depends upon the laws of whichever country he was domiciled.

In UK law, when considering questions of legitimacy, we look at the law of the

place where the father was domiciled at the time of the child’s birth. If that

law treats a child as legitimate, then UK law will likewise recognise that status

[Hashmi v Hashmi (1972)].

Therefore, if there is no concept of illegitimacy according to the law of the

place of the father's domicile at the time of the child's birth, the child born

outside a marriage will be considered legitimate in UK law irrespective of

whether the child's parents subsequently marry. Such a child will have a claim

to British Citizenship.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118568/legitimation-and-domicile.pdf

Edited October 10, 2013 by Basil B

[7by7]

My daughter was born before 1st June 2006, so she falls under the old law; a paternity declaration and a domicile questionnaire are mandatory. I belive assistance will be given with the questionnaire at the embassy. I don't want to waste time at the embassy, as they told me i should be able to submit all of the documents needed to get her a passport in one day.

I assume from this that you were not married to her mother at the time of your daughter's birth; correct?

In which case, as you know but for the benefit of other readers, the child is not automatically British but can apply to be registered as such; provided they are under 18.

Registration is not automatic; and a lot depends on the applicant's ties to the UK; hence these questions.

See Children born before 1 July 2006 whose father is a British citizen but not married to their mother - section 3(1) applications

As for how to answer the questions; I always find the truth is best; especially when dealing with government departments.

Edited October 10, 2013 by 7by7

[FiftyTwo]

The fact is the Stubuzz needs to demonstrate the legitimacy of the child, if he was domiciled in the UK then his child would be legitimate, if not then it gets more difficult as it depends upon the laws of whichever country he was domiciled.

In UK law, when considering questions of legitimacy, we look at the law of the

place where the father was domiciled at the time of the childs birth. If that

law treats a child as legitimate, then UK law will likewise recognise that status

[Hashmi v Hashmi (1972)].

Therefore, if there is no concept of illegitimacy according to the law of the

place of the father's domicile at the time of the child's birth, the child born

outside a marriage will be considered legitimate in UK law irrespective of

whether the child's parents subsequently marry. Such a child will have a claim

to British Citizenship.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118568/legitimation-and-domicile.pdf

Still easy.

Answers are .......

My home is and always was in the UK, I will be retiring in the UK, I will be buried in my home town in the UK, Nothing will ever change my intentions to live and die in the UK.

Edited October 10, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[dogeatdog]

Lets try something a little more grown up than "wiki"

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/domicile.htm

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[stubuzz]

I assume from this that you were not married to her mother at the time of your daughter's birth; correct?

In which case, as you know but for the benefit of other readers, the child is not automatically British but can apply to be registered as such; provided they are under 18.

Registration is not automatic; and a lot depends on the applicant's ties to the UK; hence these questions.

That's correct; we were not married at the time, but we are now and that has legitimised the birth. I have to show ties to the U.K. If they made it easier to take my wife back, i would probably go now. ( there is flood water lapping at my door step)

My family home is in the U.K. I also pay voluntary Class 2 national insurance to keep up my benefits if i ever need them when i return. My primary bank is in the U.K. Just difficult to comprehend questions " your intentions at this time"

I'm probably going to write what they want to hear.

[Hugh Jarse]

My daughter was born before 1st June 2006, so she falls under the old law; a paternity declaration and a domicile questionnaire are mandatory. I belive assistance will be given with the questionnaire at the embassy. I don't want to waste time at the embassy, as they told me i should be able to submit all of the documents needed to get her a passport in one day.

What happens if a child 's Father has joint Irish & British citizenship?

[Thai at Heart]

Ok as you have said its for the Uk then its quite easy to follow.

The meaning of the word "Domicile" in english tax/immigration affairs refers to your original place of birth.

I personally hate the word as it can have other meanings in other countries.

So quickly "Domicile" in english is something you cant change ever. If you were born in England the your domicile will be England.

If for example you dont know where you were born and no registration then you automatically take on your fathers domicile. If that is unknown then it falls to your grandfather and so on.

Back to the questions.

All it's about is a simple questionare for general info regarding your intensions for the future.

For example, your domicile is england but you plan to retire in Spain. If you die there in spain you want to be left there and so on and so.

The answers you give have no reflection on what you may diside on in the future.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the forms.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Domicile can have big implications for wills and inheritance.

[Hugh Jarse]

I assume from this that you were not married to her mother at the time of your daughter's birth; correct?

In which case, as you know but for the benefit of other readers, the child is not automatically British but can apply to be registered as such; provided they are under 18.

Registration is not automatic; and a lot depends on the applicant's ties to the UK; hence these questions.

That's correct; we were not married at the time, but we are now and that has legitimised the birth. I have to show ties to the U.K. If they made it easier to take my wife back, i would probably go now. ( there is flood water lapping at my door step)

My family home is in the U.K. I also pay voluntary Class 2 national insurance to keep up my benefits if i ever need them when i return. My primary bank is in the U.K. Just difficult to comprehend questions " your intentions at this time"

I'm probably going to write what they want to hear.

As regards your intentions.I would say not known or muddled rather than write what you think they want to hear. As regards "domicile" search it on your favourite search engine. It is a fascinating legal concept and difficult to change. It has nothing to do with your place of residence.

[7by7]

My daughter was born before 1st June 2006, so she falls under the old law; a paternity declaration and a domicile questionnaire are mandatory. I belive assistance will be given with the questionnaire at the embassy. I don't want to waste time at the embassy, as they told me i should be able to submit all of the documents needed to get her a passport in one day.

What happens if a child 's Father has joint Irish & British citizenship?

That one or both parents have dual nationality makes no difference to a child's entitlement, or otherwise, to British citizenship.

Don't know about Ireland.

[wordchild]

As Thai at Heart notes your domicile can have big implications for tax .

I have not heard of this before and wonder if its new and also, if the childs mother (if British) also has to answer the same questions where say the father was Thai. I suspect these questions maybe a way of recording your childs domicile (as well as yours) as, under UK law, you inherit the domicile of your father no matter where you are born.eg If you answered Thailand to the first 3 questions then I would think there is a likelihood that your child would be regarded (by the UK) as having a Thai domicile of birth. This does not affect their nationality but it may give your child some tax advantages in the future if they went to work in the UK. They could be classed as a non-dom (at least initially) which can have some major benefits. Also there maybe other benefits to your family (eg IHT) in you being regarded by the UK as having lost your UK domicile and having acquired a Thai one. There are a number of myths around the domicile question one being that its impossible to change, this is just not the case. These questions seem to me to be very deliberate and framed around HMRC,s own guidance on domicile ie what do you regard as your long term home? have you left the UK for good? I thank if Thailand is the answer you give and you state that you never intend to return to live fulltime (or to be buried) in the UK then I think that amounts to a declaration of being domiciled in Thailand.

I think, for those who have to fill the form in, its worth giving these questions and their potential long term implications some serious thought.

I have some personal perspective on this as I was born (a UK citizen) to a non-domiciled father and came to realize later in life that this had some major benefits.

Edited October 10, 2013 by wordchild

[7by7]

This topic is getting very confused and going off into all sorts of tangents; many of them, I suspect, irrelevant. It's British nationality we are dealing with here; not tax.

Stubuzz, so we can get back on track, could you clarify some things for us, please?

1. Has your daughter now been registered as British and you are asking about her first passport application: or
2. is she, or are you on her behalf, applying for her to be registered as British?

If 1., I don't see the need for a domicile questionnaire; if she is a British citizen then she is entitled to a British passport. But if 2., then for the reason I said before I can see the need.

3. Is she the one who is supposed to fill in the questionnaire, or you?

[stubuzz]

Stubuzz, so we can get back on track, could you clarify some things for us, please?

1. Has your daughter now been registered as British and you are asking about her first passport application: or
2. is she, or are you on her behalf, applying for her to be registered as British?

If 1., I don't see the need for a domicile questionnaire; if she is a British citizen then she is entitled to a British passport. But if 2., then for the reason I said before I can see the need.

3. Is she the one who is supposed to fill in the questionnaire, or you?

1. She does not have or need a British birth certificate to obtain a british passport. The Thai birth certificate and translation is suffice.

2. I am applying for her first british pasport.

3. I have to prove domicile, close connections to the U.K., to pass on British citizenship.

If anyone has had to do this before, i would be glad of your input.

[7by7]

By 'registered her as British' I do not mean registering her birth and obtaining a British birth certificate; as you rightly say British citizens born abroad do not need a British birth certificate as the one issued by the relevant authority in the country where they were born will suffice.

But, as she was born outside the UK (or a qualifying territory) before 1st June 2006 and you were not married to her mother at the time she was not automatically British.

That you have now married her mother means she might now be British; from Leaflet BN1 - British Citizenship; page 9, note 4, Parents, Children born before 1st June 2006.

If the parents were not married when the child was born, but then get married, the marriage might legitimate the child’s birth. If it does, the child would become a British citizen (and would be regarded as having been one from birth) if the father was a British citizen (or settled) when the child was born.

(My emphasis)

That 'might' meant that as far as I was aware, marrying her mother would not automatically make her British; you would also need to register her as such (see here) even though you had now married her mother. Once this has been done she could then apply for her first British passport. (Children under 18 cannot be naturalised as British, but they can be registered as such.)

However, if the embassy have told you differently then I apologise for any confusion.

With regard to you proving close ties to the UK; had you been married to her mother at the time of her birth or had she been born on or after the 1st June 2006 this would not have been necessary. All you would need to do is show that you are British otherwise than by descent*.

That they have asked you to complete this questionnaire makes me suspect that the embassy may be combining everything in one package; her application to be registered as British and her passport application: which is not how it would be done were she applying in the UK.

*For the difference between 'British by descent' and 'British otherwise than by descent' see here.

[Richard W]

That 'might' meant that as far as I was aware, marrying her mother would not automatically make her British; you would also need to register her as such (see here) even though you had now married her mother.

The 'might' is explained in Legitimation and Domicile. Basically, whether the daughter is legitimate depends on her father's domicile. If the father's domicile at the time of her birth were in the UK, then validly marrying the mother legitimated the daughter. If the father were domiciled in Thailand, then the child would have been legitimate from birth! If the father were domiciled in Pakistan, the child would remain illegitimate and would have to be registered as British to become British.

[Jay Sata]

In the case of most European expat's it is not possible to be domiciled in Thailand.

The fact that you are under visa control/reporting/renewing etc says it all. You are not a Thai citizen and never will be.

It's quite normal for people who retire and travel the world on private yachts to not return to the UK for several

years but still be UK domiciles.

Children are being born on private travel every year but still acquire the nationality of their parents.

[harrry]

As far as intention now you can answer that as you know what you would like to do if you for example died this moment. Something may change so you cannot say your intention in the future. You can only give intention as of now.

I presume you intend at some stage to go back to the UK and live there. I also assume if you die you would like it to be there. Burried..I think I would put whatever is cheapest but UK would be OK too.

[Basil B]

Richard as I read it "there is no concept of illegitimacy" in English law now so no requirements to marry if the father (or mother) were domiciled in the UK at the time of the child's birth.

In UK law, when considering questions of legitimacy, we look at the law of the

place where the father was domiciled at the time of the child’s birth. If that

law treats a child as legitimate, then UK law will likewise recognise that status

[Hashmi v Hashmi (1972)].

Therefore, if there is no concept of illegitimacy according to the law of the

place of the father's domicile at the time of the child's birth, the child born

outside a marriage will be considered legitimate in UK law irrespective of

whether the child's parents subsequently marry. Such a child will have a claim

to British Citizenship.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118568/legitimation-and-domicile.pdf

[Richard W]

Richard as I read it "there is no concept of illegitimacy" in English law now so no requirements to marry if the father (or mother) were domiciled in the UK at the time of the child's birth.

I suspect there actually still is such a concept, e.g. for the inheritance of honours. I've no idea how it interacts with the Royal Marriage Act.

There is no requirement for children born since about 2006. Older people may still be illegitimate and therefore not automatically acquire British citizenship.

Marriage is still relevant for financial and immigration matters. Marriage before the birth is still a good way of establishing paternity, especially of posthumous children.

[bkk_mike]

The meaning of the word "Domicile" in english tax/immigration affairs refers to your original place of birth.

For most people, yes, but that's not actually the definition.

It's the place of habitual residence of your father at the time of your birth.

i.e. If your parents lived in the UK, even non-British parents if residing there legally - i.e. on a settlement visa), and you were born while they were on holiday in France, your country of domicile would still be the UK. There are a few exceptions (children of Ambassadors for instance), but that's the general rule.

I have one daughter born in 2002 in Thailand, and I didn't have to fill in this domicile stuff when I got her passport, so I'm assuming the OP is British by descent (i.e. was born outside the UK). That makes the issuance of a British passport to your child more complicated. If you've lived in the UK for at least 3 years prior to the child's birth, that should still be an entitlment (i.e. not discretionary), but nothing is ever 100%.

i.e. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/eligibility/children/britishcitizen/bornabroad/

If they choose not to issue a British passport at this time, you can still get the child a visa, and then register the child as British after 3 years in the UK (as long as she's still under 18 at that point). . The child would then be British by Registration, rather than British by descent.

Edited October 15, 2013 by bkk_mike